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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg490968#msg490968
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2012, 12:29:54 am »
But Abomination has the additional 2 HP on Mummy's 3.  That's where the cost is going to...
Is the 5hp - 3hp - Mummy worth +1 casting cost?
Would the same be true if Abomination had 4hp?
What if Mummy had 4hp?
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg491172#msg491172
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2012, 08:09:30 am »
But Abomination has the additional 2 HP on Mummy's 3.  That's where the cost is going to...
Is the 5hp - 3hp - Mummy worth +1 casting cost?
Would the same be true if Abomination had 4hp?
What if Mummy had 4hp?

In my humble opinion, the difference between 3hp and 5hp is HUGE, that's why I generally prefer to use Elite Cockatrices (5/5 for 3 :life) rather than Giant Frogs (5/3 for2 :life). Cards like Rain of Fire, Fire Bolt, Owl's Eye ability etc. instantly kill a Giant Frog while they need to strike two times in general in order to eliminate an Elite Cockatrice. For me, +2 hp well worth +1 quantum.
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Offline Alchemist

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg491173#msg491173
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2012, 08:12:30 am »
I think Abomination is fine as it is. 5 :entropy for a 5/5 vanilla creature, not good but not bad either. Abominations were never meant to be played as cards out of mono- :entropy decks; they are meant to be created via Mutation, so their stats/cost are fine by me.
Why would someone mono entropy if there are much better mono decks like darkness and fire?  And where is the purpose of Abomination in game than? Reason for idea to buff it didn't came from it's "unbalancedness" rather from it being useless. If you read other posts and discussions you will see that nobody disagrees that it "looks" like a good card, but besides looking at it, nobody actually plays it anymore.

 Sometimes you create and play with the deck mostly because it is fun rather than because it is powerful. Entropy is fun, no one denies this. If we consider playing only powerful decks, then better upgrade our shards and weapons and every other card we need to farm Gold/Platinum/FalseGods and screw the rest deck/cards. This card is not as bad as many people claim it is, they just have forgotten when they were noobies playing versus PvP1, level 2 AI and level 3 AI. Back then, cards like this were useful, because you hadn't the cash. Some cards are for early gameplay (like dagger) some others for later gameplay (upped shards). Play with Skeletons, Blue Crawlers, Daggers or Abominations for the fun of it in PvP1 or wherever...
 By the way, mono-entropy isn't so bad. It makes much easier to play cards like Purple Dragons and Antimmater, it makes unupped Dissipation Shield more durable and you may add a few :life to play Fallen Elves/Druids or whatever. And as I said before, Abominations were meant to be created with Mutation rather than putting them into your deck.
Basicaly you're saying that there's no need for the abomination card itself. You are giving it a Maignant Cell status, since those can be get via aflatoxin, and abominations via mutation. But you can't say "it needs no buff" than, since you're not only nerfing it, but deleteing it.
 I also follow the same scheme as you do - upgrading the right shards, and some other good cards, and farming what I can - and that's the point exactly: Rest of the card are useless wheater upgraded or not. Look at Mind flyer - i used unupped version for very long time, and it's almost as good as upgraded. It was one of last cards I upped, it was worth every penny, and I'm using it now. So there are cards that are good even when unnuped, and those that are useless even when upped. We are talking here about general disbalance in game. I can't belive that some people are actually coming up with ideas of buffing darkness (in general) or cards like SoF, while there are like 50 completely unused/useless/underplayed cards. So you're basicaly "going with the flow" no matter where does it go. I belive, and many would agree, that balance is most important factor of the game - after fun-factor ofc. If you have cards that can't even compare to some others cards on "single card basis" you have pure disbalance. Your statement stands in Magic the Gathering terms. Because you NEED 2 different card classes there, desired and undesired cards, cause that "desire" will make you buy more cards. The Elements idea was different, so concept of "useless" cards is kinda pointless here. I'm OK with the fact of different levels of game, and farming. Let say you have some card set as a newbie. And new cards you grind along with rares should make old cards work even better, and not obsolete. SoR did exactly that. It gave new life to pharaons, anubises eternities etc. In MtG terms - you are completely right, but I see this game more like a strategy card game and less like collecting card game.
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Offline Picheleiro

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg491183#msg491183
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2012, 08:55:14 am »
What about an alternate effect to pandemonium like Mummy with RT? It could get a Chaos Power or Improve Mutation instead of the other random effects.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 10:58:01 am by Picheleiro »

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg491184#msg491184
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2012, 08:58:25 am »
But Abomination has the additional 2 HP on Mummy's 3.  That's where the cost is going to...
Is the 5hp - 3hp - Mummy worth +1 casting cost?
Would the same be true if Abomination had 4hp?
What if Mummy had 4hp?

In my humble opinion, the difference between 3hp and 5hp is HUGE, that's why I generally prefer to use Elite Cockatrices (5/5 for 3 :life) rather than Giant Frogs (5/3 for2 :life). Cards like Rain of Fire, Fire Bolt, Owl's Eye ability etc. instantly kill a Giant Frog while they need to strike two times in general in order to eliminate an Elite Cockatrice. For me, +2 hp well worth +1 quantum.
You did not answer all my questions. However it seems like you are saying that a difference between 3hp and 4hp is large enough to deserve a cost increase. It is not the +2hp but rather the 3->4 hp gap. I will consider this.
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg491210#msg491210
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2012, 10:45:41 am »
^ Well, I don't think that just a +1hp deserves +1 quantum (it will probably need some other buff in addition with +1hp in order to make worth it), but a +2hp increase when you previously have 2 or 3 hp it deserves a +1 quantum. That's what I think and I am sorry if I don't answer all the questions...
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg491412#msg491412
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2012, 06:09:10 pm »
^ Well, I don't think that just a +1hp deserves +1 quantum (it will probably need some other buff in addition with +1hp in order to make worth it), but a +2hp increase when you previously have 2 or 3 hp it deserves a +1 quantum. That's what I think and I am sorry if I don't answer all the questions...
So 3hp -> 5hp is worth +1 quanta because 5hp takes 2 standard CC [3hp each]
4hp also takes 2 standard CC [3hp each]
Old: 1-5,6-7,8-9,10+
New: 1-3,4-6,7-9,10+
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Offline Daytripper

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg495088#msg495088
« Reply #67 on: May 08, 2012, 10:08:45 pm »
While I agree it's a shame the abomination (5-5, 5  :entropy) turns into butterfly fodder upped, I don't see much in this specific idea either. I'd rather see it at -1 cost upped or at 7-7 + 1 cost.

I don't think that's a realistic idea since micro abomination would still be needed as a card as well, but I thought I'd just say it anyway.
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Offline Picheleiro

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg503121#msg503121
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2012, 11:50:47 am »
Got an idea today to micro abomination. An ability:

2: Blur. Gain  :entropy. This skill can be used multiple times per turn.

Remember it´s easy lose quantum when you use it. It´s no as effective as Photosynthesis. It´s a tiny buff but would make micro abomination something more than a BE objective.

And also I think It fits nice thematically. The raw power and the inefficiency of the entropy together.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 11:58:52 am by Picheleiro »

Offline furballdn

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg503458#msg503458
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2012, 02:58:50 am »
Got an idea today to micro abomination. An ability:

2: Blur. Gain  :entropy. This skill can be used multiple times per turn.

Remember it´s easy lose quantum when you use it. It´s no as effective as Photosynthesis. It´s a tiny buff but would make micro abomination something more than a BE objective.

And also I think It fits nice thematically. The raw power and the inefficiency of the entropy together.
Wat. Supernova now is a faster quanta generator than cremation and doesn't require a sacrifice.

Offline Picheleiro

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg503564#msg503564
« Reply #70 on: May 25, 2012, 10:16:31 am »
Supenove creates quantum for every element but entropy. That ability could get  :entropy from another quantum you dont need from SN or QT.

Offline Cunning_Wish

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Re: Abomination https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14550.msg504626#msg504626
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2012, 02:17:06 pm »
it cost 1 :entropy and 2/4
any other cearture cost 1 have that atk/def? it is good

it is balance I think
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