Forum Brawl #7 - Round 4 - Voting

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I have had a think about this. I was trying to be impartial, but I think I actually let that affect me to be more lenient at first, or at least as lenient as I would have been at the start of the event, rather than with the precedent of illegal submissions so far.

Personally, I would not have made ANY of the illegal submissions 0 points. I would have allowed all to be voted on, with a 'half winning points' penalty.

However, ALL illegal submissions so far have received 0 points.

The 1000 word limit is described as a clear rule, and it was even mentioned in this round's Round page.

I think it would be very harsh on Paratus and Green Night to arbitrarily chose which rules stand and which don't. this rule was broken by 17%. Green Night's trio deck submission was broken by 3.3%.

[Fippe94]

Thanks for your opinion, we will take this into consideration. My precedence for allowing the submission with half points is this Paratus ruling in Round 2: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forum-brawl/forum-brawl-7-round-2-voting/msg1275648/#msg1275648

However you might be right that it is more appropriate to group this with the other 0-point submissions instead.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Late edit before posting =/= illegal submission

[Aves]

I'm surprised that a task with the phrase "short story" in its description has the standard word limit. That sounds like an error that should've been challenged early in the round to me. For any half decent work of writing, 1k words should be a minimum, not a maximum.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

"short"

k now i'm just trolling

[Aves]

"short"

k now i'm just trolling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_story#Length

In contemporary usage, the term short story most often refers to a work of fiction no shorter than 1,000 and no longer than 20,000 words. Stories of fewer than 1,000 words are sometimes referred to as "short short stories",[4] or "flash fiction".

[JonathanCrazyJ]

* Every submission in general must remain PG-13, non-Log-Keeper submissions have a max limit of 1000 words (except if noted otherwise) and every submission must absolutely not exceed the length of a single private message (65535 characters).

[majofa]

To be honest I thought it fell under the non-log keeper writing tasks that could be longer since it is a writing task after all. Besides this rule isn't actually contained in the rules themselves. Only at the bottom of the round post.
Also, there should be an 'official' word count tool. Because we had a lot of hyphenated words which the wordcounttool counts as multiple.

I also think that if someone gives a submission, they should receive points. They worked hard on it. To have a few cards make the deck illegal and thus receive 0 points. That's too harsh. A non-valid submission is already gonna get lower votes as it is.

The round 2 submission should get whatever 4th place would have gotten, then maybe minus 2 points?

[Aves]

Well, sure. But that just takes me back to my original query.

I'm surprised that a task with the phrase "short story" in its description has the standard word limit. That sounds like an error that should've been challenged early in the round to me. For any half decent work of writing, 1k words should be a minimum, not a maximum.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

To be honest I thought it fell under the non-log keeper writing tasks that could be longer since it is a writing task after all. Besides this rule isn't actually contained in the rules themselves. Only at the bottom of the round post.
Also, there should be an 'official' word count tool. Because we had a lot of hyphenated words which the wordcounttool counts as multiple.

I also think that if someone gives a submission, they should receive points. They worked hard on it. To have a few cards make the deck illegal and thus receive 0 points. That's too harsh. A non-valid submission is already gonna get lower votes as it is.

The round 2 submission should get whatever 4th place would have gotten, then maybe minus 2 points?

I'd agree with something like that too tbh. My main thing is fairness across all illegal subs

[Espithel]

Also, there should be an 'official' word count tool. Because we had a lot of hyphenated words which the wordcounttool counts as multiple.

Something similar cropped up last brawl in this thread:

@ji412jo: I used Word Counter (https://wordcounter.net/) and it says 999 words 5,150 characters.

=COUNTA(SPLIT(submission," "))

It's done on the spreadsheet. The formula is pretty simple, so it's probably more lenient than other online tools. As such, so long as it's less than 1000 on whatever word count you choose to use, it's probably fine. If need be, we can switch to something more testable.

Speaking only for myself, I don't mind if a submission goes *a little* over the limit, in my head it's more of a guideline. However, should the situation arise, I'll discuss with Fippe and we'll make a decision on a case by case basis.

In this case, though, it's fine.

Just remember that shorter is usually better

[majofa]

In my opinion, illegal submissions shouldn't be hit that hard at all. Obviously they should get less than a legal one. But this event already has trouble with keeping people active and a 0 point submissions just pushes people farther away.