Brawl #7 Suggestions and Feedback

[Fippe94]

Post any comments regarding Brawl here!

[JonathanCrazyJ]

"Players who are part of a Brawl team can vote, however special rules apply for them. Each player who wants to vote gives out points as normal. However these points are not counted in the same way as non-team voints. For each team, all the points of its voting players are added, and whichever team gained the most points, will get 2 voints, while the second team will get 1 voint. Players can not give any voting points to their own team."

So team voting is not mandatory, and by voting you are harming your chances because you can't vote for yourselves.
This will only work if at least 1 player from each team must vote, and if all votes from each team are amalgamated into one vote for that team (this is ambiguous in the rules, do all player votes from all teams get added together, or each team's votes get amalgamated?).

The rule should read as this:

"Players who are part of a Brawl team can vote, however special rules apply for them. Each team must have at least one player vote. Each player who wants to vote gives out points as normal. However these points are not counted in the same way as non-team voints. For each team, all the points of its voting players are added, and whichever team gained the most points from that team's votes, will get 2 voints, while the second team will get 1 voint. Players can not give any voting points to their own team."

Example 1:
Team A votes team B as best and team D as 2nd best.
Team B votes team C as best and team D as 2nd best.
Team C votes team B as best and team D as 2nd best.
Team D doesn't vote. if they had, chances are they would have voted for team C for 1st or 2nd, and they would have come third, but because they didn't they come 2nd.

Example 2:
3 players from team A vote.
2 players from team B vote.
1 player from team C votes.
2 players from team D vote.

Only 5 players could have cast votes for team A.
6 players could have voted for teams B and D.
7 players could have voted for team C.

[Fippe94]

Your second correction is exactly what we had in mind, each team has seperate votes. Here is a full example to make sure we all understand each other:

Spoiler for Team voting example:

Team Red has 3 players (A, B and C)
Team Blue has 5 players (K, L, M, N, O)
Team Green has 1 player (R)
Team Black has 2 players (X, Y)

Each player has 10 voints to give out, max 5 to each team (standard voting rules)

Team Red votes like this:
A votes: 3 to Blue, 2 to Green, 5 to Black
B votes: 5 to Green, 5 to Black
C votes: 4 to Blue, 4 to Green, 2 to Black
Total for Red: 7 to Blue, 11 to Green, 12 to Black
Voints from team Red: 2 to Black, 1 to Green

Team Blue votes likes this:
K votes: 4 to Red, 1 to Green, 5 to Black
L votes: 5 to Red, 5 to Green
M, N and O chooses not to vote.
Total for Blue: 9 to Red, 6 to Green, 5 to Black.
Voints from Blue: 2 to Red, 1 to Green.

Team Green votes like this:
R votes: 5 to Red, 5 to Black.
Total for Green: 5 to Red, 5 to Black.
Voints from Green: 1 to Red, 1 to Black.

Team Black votes like this:
X votes: 4 to Red, 4 to Blue, 2 to Green.
Z votes: 1 to Red, 4 to Blue, 5 to Green.
Total for Black: 5 to Red, 8 to Blue, 7 to Green.
Voints from Black: 2 to Blue, 1 to Green.

Total results from Team voting:
Red: 4
Blue: 2
Green: 2
Black: 3

These voints are then added directly with the voints from the non-team voters and the teams are then given points as per the table in the Rules.

If a team gives equal votes to two teams, they will both get 1 voint (This is not in the rules yet, but will be added)

As for mandatory voting, you have a point. This will also be added to the rules.

[dawn to dusk]

I like the voting system, though in the case of an illegal task, it seems redundant to have brawl players vote on it due to the nature of the voint system. Perhaps a way to fix this, say, reducing voints to 7? Especially in a theoretical scenario where one task is much better than the other in the options in the person's opinion. While this is somewhat alleviated in non-brawl voters, brawl voters are still somewhat there

[JonathanCrazyJ]

That moment when you have about 3 hours a week to do brawl stuff, and 2 of them come tonight, and there is no Round 5.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

I don't think art tasks should be able to be made as challenges. Here is why.

Art has a much, much higher threshold of skill than any other type of task. Usually there is only one person in a team who can do art at all.

Art is much more time consuming than other tasks. So the most overworked player on your team has to work literally twice as hard that round, because nobody else can help.

Usually, artists have strengths and weaknesses which are clear. Submitting an art challenge, players focus on their strengths and make it almost impossible for an enemy artist to match them.

There is far too little counter-play. Usually the best course of action is to accept a -5 and move on. Not fun.

There is already a huge premium on the 'best' artist in brawl. If teams do the 'logically best thing' they use their 6 challenges on terrible art challenges with absolutely no repercussions. Because art is almost all about skill, not about the best 'idea' like the rest of brawl.

Challenges are supposed to be a fun battle of wills. This just feels like a trap.

[MyNameIsJoey]

I quite seriously dislike voting as a brawler. Being forced to give 10 points to 3 teams (with a max of 5 per team) is just too much. Many times I feel like one submission deserves higher pointing but i have to give it the same as the 2nd because the 3rd submission is just bad.

[Fippe94]

I agree. In hindsight giving 10 points to only 3 submissions with max 5 per sub is too many points. In those cases it should have been lower, like 5 points maybe. Do you dislike brawlers voting in general or mostly just this balance?

[MyNameIsJoey]

this balance. I'm all for brawlers voting if we want any votes at all.

[Espithel]

I don't think art tasks should be able to be made as challenges. Here is why.

I'd simply remove the penalty for declining such. Art tasks between two willing and consenting partners would look awesome.
I'd also like to extend that to any specialist task. Music, programming, video games, etc. If you need some threshold of training in order to be able to compete at all, then ewwwwww

[MyNameIsJoey]

Let's call round 1-2 A, round 3-4 B and round 5-6 C.

As it is now, B is worth 2x of A in points, and C is worth 3X of A in points, or if you prefer, C = A + B.

I think this is too much. The last 2 rounds count for too much and makes the first 4 rounds irrelevant.

How about, instead of doubling and tripling for B and C, we made it 1.5 and 2x? For example

If A gave 8 6 4 2 points, then B would give 12 9 6 3 points and C would give 16 12 8 4 points.

This way, sure later rounds still count for more, but in a lesser way not making the first rounds irrelevant.

That's my opinion anyway.

[Fippe94]

Lower the reward for Bonus tasks maybe? Right now it's worth an entire winning task while everyone else gets 0 points.

To keep the reward being higher than other tasks, maybe just making it like a normal task but double. That way the 2nd, 3rd and 4th actually gets some more points and it's no longer about only being first.