Forum Brawl #5 - Suggestions and Feedback

[Naesala]

Please post here if you have a question or comments about the functionality of the event and how it might be improved. If you have a question regarding a round or the event rules, please post them in their individual threads instead. We appreciate feedback and will try to interact as much as we can with each person who posts to explain our reasons or listen consult their opinions!

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Will forum expert role require any knowledge of coding? i remember there was one task last time involving the Elements Forum Home Page hub which i would have been completely lost in.

[CleanOnion]

There are no tasks that necessitate a knowledge of coding, however there are a few tasks that you may use coding for if you wish (FE and otherwise).

But to answer your question, no.

[Fippe94]

I realise this is like way late, and I fully understand if no changes will be made this Brawl.

I really dislike the current team vote system. It strongly incentivises players to always make one of the votes for their own team, regardless of what they actually think. The reason for this is that most people *will* vote for their own team, because they want to win (which is obvious), because they really think they were best, and/or partly because they "were there" when it was made and because if that believes it is the best work.
In some cases I can imagine the team leader (or anyone else in the team) telling everyone in the team to vote for own team. This means that those that do not vote for their own team will get punished for it, since they will be behind on voting. I also realize that forbidding voting from players will leave the event with very few votes, since most people interested in brawl are in it. My personal solution would be to make team voting  one vote per person, and no voting for own team.
I also understand that this could lead to people not voting if they really want to win, so I propose either mandatory voting (with randomized vote if no vote is cast), or an "automatic vote" for your own team when you vote. Note that the latter solution is basically the same system as we already have, except it removes punishing "honorable" players, and removes a possible conflict among the team members.

As I said, I completely understand if no change will be made this brawl (I am a bit late with this complaint, I know), but I strongly encourage the change to be made, either right now, for the next round, or if not, then at least the next brawl.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

This came up last brawl, and the 2 vote system is actually a way of stopping team-bias.

if we all had one vote, we'd use it on ourselves.
if we had one vote and were not allowed to self-vote, some people would 'forget' to vote, meaning that nobody gets that vote and it leaves you up.
having 2 votes, where you must vote someone else for the 2nd vote, means that you use the 1st vote on yourself (everyone does, so that sets its value to zero) and the 2nd is a genuine vote. If you 'forget' to vote, then you are harming yourself as much as anyone else.

[Fippe94]

I do take that issue up and answer it in my post.

I also understand that this could lead to people not voting if they really want to win, so I propose either mandatory voting (with randomized vote if no vote is cast), or an "automatic vote" for your own team when you vote. Note that the latter solution is basically the same system as we already have, except it removes punishing "honorable" players, and removes a possible conflict among the team members.

[Naesala]

I do take that issue up and answer it in my post.

I also understand that this could lead to people not voting if they really want to win, so I propose either mandatory voting (with randomized vote if no vote is cast), or an "automatic vote" for your own team when you vote. Note that the latter solution is basically the same system as we already have, except it removes punishing "honorable" players, and removes a possible conflict among the team members.

I am opposed to randomized votes, that's worse than not voting. That makes the event random and pointless. We've discussed the voting system every brawl and this is the best system. If you'd like to see our points, look at some of the old feedback/preview threds for brawl.

[Fippe94]

I agree that random voting is bad. My real suggestion was my second suggestion: One vote per player, canot vote for yourself, whenever you vote an "automatic" extra vote is cast for your own team. Note this is basically the same system as we already have, except it removes punishing "honorable" players, and removes a possible conflict among the team members.


Now for my next thing I just noticed (yay for reading the rules after the event has begun):
I noticed that the team voting is only 1 point for the winner in each role, which is basically nothing compared to the community vote, and is even small compared to the Expert panel vote. This mean the team vote is almost meaningless. The amount of non-brawler votes are usually a lot less than the amount of brawlers, so what is the idea behind this decision. (I also realize that this fact makes my last complaint almost a non.issue anyway, since team votes are pretty meaningless). Unless I have somehow misunderstood the rules, in which case they seem badly written.

[CleanOnion]

Seeing as Nae's gone away for a little while, looks like I'm taking over the voting as well.

In mafia terms, each team has 6 "Voting Power". Members of each team vote on who they want to vote for. If only one person in a team votes (or all the voters in that team are unanimous), it's like they voted 6 times.

If two team members vote, and they both vote completely differently, it's like both voters get 3 voting power, and so count for 3 community votes each. If all 6 members vote completely differently, they each get 1 voting power, the same as a community vote.

When you get things like 5 members voting, with 3 voting on one thing and the other two going for other things, you start getting into decimal votes which is a lot more complicated. Decimal votes will be rounded to the nearest integer.

If this is all too complicated, take away this: Each team counts for 6 community votes. No matter how many members that team actually has. Team voting is like an internal democracy to determine how many votes go where.

6 teams with 6 voting power each is equivalent to 36 community votes (18 if you discount self votes). I'd call that substantial.

[andretimpa]

Wasn't the scoring from community and team votes separate? Or am I mixing something?

[Aves]

Each team has its own voting thread in its secret section. MMC and I just happened to make our votes public as well as in the private threads.

[andretimpa]

I meant this (from the rules thread)

Do team votes affect the placing in each round or do they have a separate scoring?

Team votes have their own placing and scoring separate from the public placing.