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Offline AD TienzuStorm

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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183119#msg1183119
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2015, 09:36:18 pm »
I have to agree with the Artist tasks being slightly more limiting than the others. Forcing the Artists to use a certain kind of art lowers the amount of choices they have in terms of design and what they use to make the art (although I like the second round task, only enforcing what they could use was nice).

Maybe for Brawl 5, you could try and give them a choice, like "Draw an Elements creature using either Cubism or Impressionism" or other art styles instead of restricting to one kind.
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183156#msg1183156
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2015, 04:32:05 am »
Giving 2 limiters makes for strange comparisons. We will give one limiter per type, or no limiters, on a given tasks challenge.

Brawl 3 and 4 had similar patterns in task creation. I should know, as I set these patterns before creating a majority of the tasks.

The boss does one task of each type. The challenge is in the variety, not knowing what to expect, and in having to do this and manage a team.
The artist varies between mediums and styles.  The challenge is in attempting various different types of art and using new means of creation, and meant to not exclude artists who prefer other mediums to digital art. (The first two brawls were heavily dominated by this medium). Within these contrictions there is usually a thematic to connect the tasks for comparison and to make them elements related.
Card and Deck makes alternate between thematic rounds and strict challenges. The challenge here is to both test creativity within a given area while still making something balanced for a card and functional for a deck, and to overcome difficult design challenges for deck and card making. These may seem comparatively easier than the other tasks because elements is automatically ingrained in them, and not needing the additional thematic justification.
Forum Expert's have to make suggestions to improve the forums in various ways, which is challenging in a stagnant community. Their rounds don't have a pattern, as they are the hardest to create unique challenges for.
Off topicker has to deal with six different off topic subforums. The challenge is, similar to the boss, the variety and not knowing what to expect. While the creations are almost always written, they are very varied in the type of knowledge that you need.
Writers have to alternate between form and story, and are most comparable to artists in that regard. Form matches style, in that it has a specific area of restrictions (such as haiku to cubism, or comicbook to baroque). Neither require mastery, just an understanding of the form and an attempt. Then, writers have a story, which is more open in what can be done as opposed to the varying mediums for artist. They also have to be linked to elements in some way atop these restrictions.

All in all, artist tasks may be slightly more restrictive, but I don't think these restrictions are that much more difficult compared to the other tasks. If this is a significant problem, well, the lack of any interest in artist roles is a good sign they might not be around for brawl #5.
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183469#msg1183469
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2015, 10:44:44 pm »
As a former Boss (DDD in Brawl 3), I know the struggle of auction, stress of members dropping out early-event/mid-event, and desire for replacements.  As a member of a fully active team (comes at a cost in auction, I promise that!) in Brawl 4 I know the cost of active team and therefore make this suggestion regarding replacements:

Replacements are allowed in at the request of the team with a missing member and at the point-cost of the average cost for that position in that Brawl's completed auction.
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Offline russianspy1234

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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183472#msg1183472
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2015, 11:05:46 pm »
Given that replacements are people who were either less desirable than the others or like me posted a topic in the final hours of the auction, charging average price seems harsh.  Charging at all seems harsh given how little control the boss has on if IRL takes one of their members
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183474#msg1183474
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2015, 11:47:20 pm »
Given that replacements are people who were either less desirable than the others or like me posted a topic in the final hours of the auction, charging average price seems harsh.  Charging at all seems harsh given how little control the boss has on if IRL takes one of their members

All fair points.  However, I think there should be at least a slight (or more than slight) detraction to getting replacements.  The reason is NOT to make players opposed to joining as or teams against accepting replacements.  Rather, my reason for this suggestion is to curb possible abuse of leaving it unchecked.  Namely, that a person desiring a specific role in the event can simply abstain from auction and then get into a target team for free after auction ends/event starts.

Tweaked suggestion:  Replacement cost is average of that role multiplied by the ratio of rounds of event started (i.e. - right now is mid-round 3 so cost would be {average of role in auction} * {3 / [total rounds to be done in the Brawl] } ?
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183475#msg1183475
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2015, 11:54:31 pm »
Given that replacements are people who were either less desirable than the others or like me posted a topic in the final hours of the auction, charging average price seems harsh.  Charging at all seems harsh given how little control the boss has on if IRL takes one of their members

All fair points.  However, I think there should be at least a slight (or more than slight) detraction to getting replacements.  The reason is NOT to make players opposed to joining as or teams against accepting replacements.  Rather, my reason for this suggestion is to curb possible abuse of leaving it unchecked.  Namely, that a person desiring a specific role in the event can simply abstain from auction and then get into a target team for free after auction ends/event starts.

Tweaked suggestion:  Replacement cost is average of that role multiplied by the ratio of rounds of event started (i.e. - right now is mid-round 3 so cost would be {average of role in auction} * {3 / [total rounds to be done in the Brawl] } ?

There are bizarre cases that don't fit this. The Cuckoos in Brawl 3 request a sub for their boss (Dm replacing Ops).

I think the most sensible is the BMs denying the request for a sub if abuse is obvious.
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Offline russianspy1234

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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183487#msg1183487
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2015, 12:44:28 am »
Given that replacements are people who were either less desirable than the others or like me posted a topic in the final hours of the auction, charging average price seems harsh.  Charging at all seems harsh given how little control the boss has on if IRL takes one of their members

All fair points.  However, I think there should be at least a slight (or more than slight) detraction to getting replacements.  The reason is NOT to make players opposed to joining as or teams against accepting replacements.  Rather, my reason for this suggestion is to curb possible abuse of leaving it unchecked.  Namely, that a person desiring a specific role in the event can simply abstain from auction and then get into a target team for free after auction ends/event starts.

Tweaked suggestion:  Replacement cost is average of that role multiplied by the ratio of rounds of event started (i.e. - right now is mid-round 3 so cost would be {average of role in auction} * {3 / [total rounds to be done in the Brawl] } ?
I just did 3 tasks in two days (one ended up being unnecessary) and none of them were card designer which was my preferred role.  The disadvantages that come with needing and then getting a sub will likely end up costing the team more than enough points in the round it happens.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 12:46:38 am by russianspy1234 »
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183504#msg1183504
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2015, 01:14:04 am »
Something to remember:
A brawler that consistently places 1 rank lower than the best brawler is overpriced at an auction cost of 1.
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183507#msg1183507
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2015, 01:16:39 am »
Given that replacements are people who were either less desirable than the others or like me posted a topic in the final hours of the auction, charging average price seems harsh.  Charging at all seems harsh given how little control the boss has on if IRL takes one of their members

All fair points.  However, I think there should be at least a slight (or more than slight) detraction to getting replacements.  The reason is NOT to make players opposed to joining as or teams against accepting replacements.  Rather, my reason for this suggestion is to curb possible abuse of leaving it unchecked.  Namely, that a person desiring a specific role in the event can simply abstain from auction and then get into a target team for free after auction ends/event starts.

Tweaked suggestion:  Replacement cost is average of that role multiplied by the ratio of rounds of event started (i.e. - right now is mid-round 3 so cost would be {average of role in auction} * {3 / [total rounds to be done in the Brawl] } ?
I just did 3 tasks in two days (one ended up being unnecessary) and none of them were card designer which was my preferred role.  The disadvantages that come with needing and then getting a sub will likely end up costing the team more than enough points in the round it happens.

At some point a boss drafting poorly (selecting drop-outs falls in this to me) should have penalty - either incomplete tasks/rounds or cost-paid-to-replace members.  Right?  I know I am 100% ok with the "price" paid by my team last Brawl due to my poor auction performance...
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Offline russianspy1234

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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183525#msg1183525
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2015, 02:32:10 am »
Given that replacements are people who were either less desirable than the others or like me posted a topic in the final hours of the auction, charging average price seems harsh.  Charging at all seems harsh given how little control the boss has on if IRL takes one of their members

All fair points.  However, I think there should be at least a slight (or more than slight) detraction to getting replacements.  The reason is NOT to make players opposed to joining as or teams against accepting replacements.  Rather, my reason for this suggestion is to curb possible abuse of leaving it unchecked.  Namely, that a person desiring a specific role in the event can simply abstain from auction and then get into a target team for free after auction ends/event starts.

Tweaked suggestion:  Replacement cost is average of that role multiplied by the ratio of rounds of event started (i.e. - right now is mid-round 3 so cost would be {average of role in auction} * {3 / [total rounds to be done in the Brawl] } ?
I just did 3 tasks in two days (one ended up being unnecessary) and none of them were card designer which was my preferred role.  The disadvantages that come with needing and then getting a sub will likely end up costing the team more than enough points in the round it happens.

At some point a boss drafting poorly (selecting drop-outs falls in this to me) should have penalty - either incomplete tasks/rounds or cost-paid-to-replace members.  Right?  I know I am 100% ok with the "price" paid by my team last Brawl due to my poor auction performance...
And that price is paid both by the time disadvantage and by getting an inferior brawler for the price they paid for a better one for.

Something to remember:
A brawler that consistently places 1 rank lower than the best brawler is overpriced at an auction cost of 1.

No necessarily.  A brawler can provide input that boosts the performance of other tasks even if they don't place well in their own.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 02:34:07 am by russianspy1234 »
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183534#msg1183534
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2015, 03:44:22 am »
Something to remember:
A brawler that consistently places 1 rank lower than the best brawler is overpriced at an auction cost of 1.

No necessarily.  A brawler can provide input that boosts the performance of other tasks even if they don't place well in their own.
Does that mean they are worth at least 1, or does that mean lacking a brawler is worth a negative cost?
The in task contributions of being consistently 1 rank less than the best is a deficit greater than the auction range. If we include the difference in out of task contributions, the gap only grows larger. My point wasn't that no brawler is better than a 2nd place brawler. My point is/was that we cannot assume the current auction system merely needs small "tweaks".
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Re: Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=57412.msg1183535#msg1183535
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2015, 03:48:49 am »
Does that mean they are worth at least 1, or does that mean lacking a brawler is worth a negative cost?
The in task contributions of being consistently 1 rank less than the best is a deficit greater than the auction range. If we include the difference in out of task contributions, the gap only grows larger. My point wasn't that no brawler is better than a 2nd place brawler. My point is/was that we cannot assume the current auction system merely needs small "tweaks".

What does it need, then?
Does it even need anything in the first place?

 

blarg: