Forum Brawl #3 - Suggestions and Feedback

[andretimpa]

Could we possibly get a Team Member Feedback thread, where we can say stuff about how we felt our team / members did. Kinda like, "eljoemo was great, get this guy on your team next Brawl!" or "eljoemo was hard to work with and we had to cover his tasks most of the time." Just so that we can ensure good brawlers get the appreciation they deserve and Boss can chose better for next Brawl. Kinda like this thread but for Brawl not War.

It's not a set in stone tradition, but these posts normally go in the last round voting thread, after the results are out. I plan on making something along these lines.

[Naesala]

Towards the end of round 6 (or sooner, maybe even tonight) the following threads will go up

• Brawl Member Appreciation
• Brawl #3 Survey
• A post in Suggestions and Feedback asking for more
• Possibly a statistics page
• Brawl #3 Winners thread

[dawn to dusk]

I have an idea for voting that everyone will hate but I'll post it anyway (btw, I liked the voting but I'm just trying to reduce strategic voting and stuff)

Players have 2 votes. Players are unable to vote for their own team. If any member from any team doesn't vote (unless proven to be inactive) they're team has 1 point reduced.

Aaaaand, bring on the hate ^^

[CrockettRocket]

The only way I can see that reducing strategic voting would be "players can't vote on their own team" and how do you prove someone is inactive?

[dawn to dusk]

Last logged in, minimal-no posts in either the secret sections or the round threads, I can think of a multitude of ways

[Zawadx]

Actually getting a criteria such as that and disabling own votes would be a good idea.

Now the question is whether to impose a restriction that they have to vote for ALL tasks to not get the penalty. This would give people incentive to go through all tasks, which they might not do if their team has no submision/ yada yada. But some people don't have the time...

[OldTrees]

The only way I can see that reducing strategic voting would be "players can't vote on their own team" and how do you prove someone is inactive?

I have been thinking about the theoretical reduction of strategic voting since the end of last brawl. I have failed to disprove my hypothesis that "the possibility for strategic voting is inevitable in any voting system that permits voting".

Yes, this includes dawn to dusk's suggested voting system. In fact, it was the first I tested and what formulated my hypothesis. There is no way to remove strategic voting from a voting system.

Thus the goal should not to be to eliminate the opportunity for strategic voting. The goal should be to eliminate* the desire for strategic voting.
*eliminate: reduce to the point that further reduction carries a higher cost then the reduction would provide a benefit

Honestly I think we are at or very close to that point. Maybe dawn to dusk's idea would push us further or maybe it carries to high a cost. Already I think we are at the point where we should (and have) extended the blanket trust to our fellow brawlers. That blanket trust is a good sign. It is not as good as a culture of "quality for quality's sake" but I understand that that culture does not naturally reside in the entire forum.

[theelkspeaks]

In light of the recent discussion on strategic voting and ways to avoid it, I'd like to re-explain my earlier suggestion.  I think that tasks which do involve the team name or the members of the team should take place in the earlier rounds of the Brawl (as they already tend to), when there's less desire for strategic voting, and that later tasks of Brawl should be presented for voting anonymously.  They would be identified with letters for players to vote on, and only the Brawlmasters would know whose was whose.  Yes, individuals' style could make some tasks easy for voters to identify, but I'm not sure how many Brawlers would do so, especially when it's one step removed from the name.  I would say that within this system, two votes (and the requirement of one that isn't your team) is still good, as most players active enough to vote are active enough to recognize their own team's submissions.

[Naesala]

I will repeat that Brawlers will always be able to vote, be able to vote on their team's submissions, and be able to completely freely discuss and critique with their votes (no anonymous voting).

I will also say here, because I have no better place to put it: ji412jo admits to at least one round of strategic voting. He admitted this to me in chat, and admitted it was to "teach me a lesson", then proceeded to guilt me that a penalty would "hurt others more than him". After discussion with Chapuz, we have decided that best thing to do is turn this information over to everyone, and say that we are both ashamed of this behavior. Strategic voting was frowned upon, but doing it intentionally because you're mad about the results of a challenge you couldn't see the votes for, claiming it was strategic voting, and then insulting the integrity of the Brawlmasters is really bad.

[Calambar]

I have an idea for voting that everyone will hate but I'll post it anyway (btw, I liked the voting but I'm just trying to reduce strategic voting and stuff)

Players have 2 votes. Players are unable to vote for their own team. If any member from any team doesn't vote (unless proven to be inactive) they're team has 1 point reduced.

Aaaaand, bring on the hate ^^

I agree with this, actually I had similar suggestion before 

[andretimpa]

How about:

-There are no public standings
-BMs inform via secret section the positions of each submission, after the round is over, as well as any expert votes they recieved?

This imo removes strategic voting, while still giving Brawlers a feedback about how well received their submissions were.

[Naesala]

As OldTrees said, there will be pretty much no way to remove it, only reduce it.

That idea seems awfully unfair to non-brawlers viewing and voting in the event.