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Offline Naesala

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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135014#msg1135014
« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2014, 01:10:10 am »
Voting closed and being tabulated asap. (Sorry it wasn't done sooner. I've been sick :( )
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135030#msg1135030
« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2014, 02:04:21 am »
Round 4 voting results!

Boss/Offtopicker:
1. Silver FernsChapuz's Pick
2. Divine Light Naesala's Pick
3. Whispers in the ark
4. Death Dost Dominate TIED WITH
ALSO 4. Cuckoo's Nest

Artist
1. Cuckoo's Nest Naesala's Pick
2. Divine Light
3. Death Dost Dominate Chapuz's Pick
4. Whispers in the Dark
5. Silver Ferns

Card Designer
1. Silver Ferns
2. Death Dost Dominate Chapuz's Pick
3. Whispers in the Dark
4. Cuckoo's Nest TIED WITH Naesala's Pick
ALSO 4. Divine Light

Deck Builder
1. Divine Light
2. Whispers in the Dark Naesala's Pick
3. Death Dost Dominate Chapuz's Pick
4. Cuckoo's Nest
5. Silver Ferns

Forum Expert
1. Death Dost Dominate
2. Divine Light 1/2 points for lateness
3. Silver Ferns
4. Whispers in the Dark Chapuz's PickNaesala's Pick
5. Cuckoo's Nest

Writer
1. Cuckoo's Nest Chapuz's PickNaesala's Pick
2. Divine Light
3. Death Dost Dominate TIED WITH
ALSO 3. Whispers in the Dark
No entry: Silver Ferns

Bonus Task Winner: Tie between Cuckoo's Nest and Death Dost Dominate. The Bonus points will be split.

Challenge 1: Cuckoo's Nest
Challenge 2. Cuckoo's Nest

« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 02:12:00 am by Naesala »
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Offline Zawadx

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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135072#msg1135072
« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2014, 12:16:09 pm »
[What follows is simply my opinion on why the Cuckoo's nest Writer submission violates this round's task restrictions. Yeah, it's all a rant. But trust me, I do NOT want to create any drama with this. I just want to ask the community and Brawlmaster's opinion as to why they thought that the Cuckoo's submission was in line with the restrictions. I've presented my argument, and I want to see yours.]

The Writer task was: Choose an NPC/AI with very little or no lore and write a more in depth lore. Two parts: namely 'choose an NPC/AI with very little or no lore' and to 'write a more in depth lore'.

Of the four submissions, all pretty much did the first part properly. Cuckoo's was a bit of a stretch; but a personification of the Bazaar qualifies as a Non-Player Character in my opinion. But what was really messed up was the second part, writing lore.

Quote
Definition of Lore by the Online Merriam-Webstar dictionary:

1
archaic :  something that is taught :  lesson
2
:  something that is learned:
a :  knowledge gained through study or experience
b :  traditional knowledge or belief
3
:  a particular body of knowledge or tradition

Of course, in Brawl, everything is left up to a broad range of interpretation. But based on the above definition, we can say that Lore should at least provide us with some scholarly knowledge or tradition. Yeah, you can use a different style, but the basic knowledge/tradition of lore must be there. Lore should at least provide some scholarly information about it's subject.

In this case, of course, the DDD submission is obviously lore. The Whispers submission, hmmm... but stripping down the narrative style you'll find that it provides some scholarly information about the Entropy/Darkness Elder on the topic of its relationship with Hecate.

But the Cuckoo's Nest submission is just a glimpse into the daily life of Shakif. It depicts a scene which must've happened a million times in Shakif's life. No scholarly information. Yes, it attempts to think outside the box, but in this case it's more like it burns the box down and then does its thinking. Don't get me wrong; without the task restrictions in mind and just considering the writing skill displayed in these entries, Cuckoo's would easily get its First Place with both Expert votes. But task restrictions are placed for a reason, and isn't this entry totally violating those task restrictions?

Okay, enough ranting. Basically, my question in general would be: How much can we mold the task restrictions? And is there no penalty for violating these restrictions? I'd assumed that voters would not consider this entry due to it not meeting the restrictions. But instead it gets the no. 1 spot and both Expert votes. I mean, at least tell me why you think that it's in line with restrictions? please?

(Once again, this post isn't aimed personally at anyone; it's basically a rant/question which might take my sanity away. I hope no one is offended by this, cause as I said the Cuckoo's entry was the best based on writing skill, but I simply feel it disregards task specifications. aaand I'm repeating myself, so please forgive all the craziness in the above post.)
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Offline propheon

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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135077#msg1135077
« Reply #39 on: May 04, 2014, 01:42:38 pm »
im gonna vote for ddd mostly for the morte story . I enjoyed reading it and the rest is ok too.

                                                                             VOTE:DDD
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135093#msg1135093
« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2014, 05:43:39 pm »
im gonna vote for ddd mostly for the morte story . I enjoyed reading it and the rest is ok too.

                                                                             VOTE:DDD
You're too late hun. Thanks for wanting to vote though.


Zawadx, if the Brawlmasters put up a task, it means we have approved it. Granted, someone may point something out and we may change our mind, but I usually choose my expert votes the day the tasks go up, meaning I read all of the tasks in their completeness (even ARTHANASIOS's text walls) before choosing. We also usually trust the brawlers to try and stay within task restrictions, and so we're usually lenient if something is on the fringe. Here, the task was about lore. Yes, you can pull up a definition, point, and say "well that isn't what lore technically is". But I think most if not all people would find this bit of dialogue to be something akin to lore. It tells us about the Bazaar man, what his personality is like, how he speaks, and so on. This is enough to qualify as lore to me.
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135100#msg1135100
« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2014, 06:07:24 pm »
...I read all of the tasks in their completeness (even ARTHANASIOS's text walls)...

 I'm really touched by this one. I truly admire and appreciate your patience! :D
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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135101#msg1135101
« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2014, 06:14:58 pm »
[What follows is simply my opinion on why the Cuckoo's nest Writer submission violates this round's task restrictions. Yeah, it's all a rant. But trust me, I do NOT want to create any drama with this. I just want to ask the community and Brawlmaster's opinion as to why they thought that the Cuckoo's submission was in line with the restrictions. I've presented my argument, and I want to see yours.]

The Writer task was: Choose an NPC/AI with very little or no lore and write a more in depth lore. Two parts: namely 'choose an NPC/AI with very little or no lore' and to 'write a more in depth lore'.

Of the four submissions, all pretty much did the first part properly. Cuckoo's was a bit of a stretch; but a personification of the Bazaar qualifies as a Non-Player Character in my opinion. But what was really messed up was the second part, writing lore.

Quote
Definition of Lore by the Online Merriam-Webstar dictionary:

1
archaic :  something that is taught :  lesson
2
:  something that is learned:
a :  knowledge gained through study or experience
b :  traditional knowledge or belief
3
:  a particular body of knowledge or tradition

Of course, in Brawl, everything is left up to a broad range of interpretation. But based on the above definition, we can say that Lore should at least provide us with some scholarly knowledge or tradition. Yeah, you can use a different style, but the basic knowledge/tradition of lore must be there. Lore should at least provide some scholarly information about it's subject.

In this case, of course, the DDD submission is obviously lore. The Whispers submission, hmmm... but stripping down the narrative style you'll find that it provides some scholarly information about the Entropy/Darkness Elder on the topic of its relationship with Hecate.

But the Cuckoo's Nest submission is just a glimpse into the daily life of Shakif. It depicts a scene which must've happened a million times in Shakif's life. No scholarly information. Yes, it attempts to think outside the box, but in this case it's more like it burns the box down and then does its thinking. Don't get me wrong; without the task restrictions in mind and just considering the writing skill displayed in these entries, Cuckoo's would easily get its First Place with both Expert votes. But task restrictions are placed for a reason, and isn't this entry totally violating those task restrictions?

Okay, enough ranting. Basically, my question in general would be: How much can we mold the task restrictions? And is there no penalty for violating these restrictions? I'd assumed that voters would not consider this entry due to it not meeting the restrictions. But instead it gets the no. 1 spot and both Expert votes. I mean, at least tell me why you think that it's in line with restrictions? please?

(Once again, this post isn't aimed personally at anyone; it's basically a rant/question which might take my sanity away. I hope no one is offended by this, cause as I said the Cuckoo's entry was the best based on writing skill, but I simply feel it disregards task specifications. aaand I'm repeating myself, so please forgive all the craziness in the above post.)

At least from other games I've played, in online gaming, I find lore to often be described as "the backstory of the world of a game" sometimes with the stipulation "not directly revealed in game, but only as backstory".  I'd say that in the world of online games, lore is used much more broadly than a strict dictionary definition (much like other words like "epic"), and I for one inferred this task to mean "lore" in that sense.
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Offline Zawadx

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Re: Brawl #3 Round 4 Voting https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=54383.msg1135169#msg1135169
« Reply #43 on: May 05, 2014, 12:27:28 pm »
Thanks Nae for posting the official Brawlmaster policy regarding this :)

Btw, I only came up with the dictionary definition to get something concrete on this. For example, to me lore might not involve learning, but it should tell us about a special incident (like how that mysterious artifact came to be, or maybe why the Protagonist favors red clothing :P ). I simply wanted to get a more concrete definition to make sure that my claims weren't based on nothing. But indeed Cuckoo's deserves the first place based on simple writing skill displayed. 
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blarg: