Brawl #3 - Round 3 Voting

[Chapuz]

Please continue this discussion in the S&F thread.

[Naesala]

I do apologize for my post. I am not in the best position in real life and so the stress got to me. I am thankful for what many have said and we do appreciate feedback.

[Zso_Zso]

In my previous post, no complains intended; i just wanted to underline the non-sense voting system of this nice event, and the non-sense votes expressed by Zso-Zso in last two rounds.

In round 2 he votes us just because our name remind to  (bringing harm to other teams), in round 3 didn't vote for us just because the mess he did in the former round (bringing harm to us).

Sure, I am making non-sense votes, after all I have no clue about Brawl or Elements in general.
Whatever I vote I am always harming someone, so maybe I should leave the whole event alone, just like all the other thousands of forum members who do not vote at all...

[OldTrees]

In my previous post, no complains intended; i just wanted to underline the non-sense voting system of this nice event, and the non-sense votes expressed by Zso-Zso in last two rounds.

In round 2 he votes us just because our name remind to  (bringing harm to other teams), in round 3 didn't vote for us just because the mess he did in the former round (bringing harm to us).

Sure, I am making non-sense votes, after all I have no clue about Brawl or Elements in general.
Whatever I vote I am always harming someone, so maybe I should leave the whole event alone, just like all the other thousands of forum members who do not vote at all...

I have no clue about most of brawl. I do vote on Card Design(which I have many clues on) and occasionally Art(When I have a strong content based opinion).
You are a Master. I bet there is at least one category that you are well familiar with. Maybe deckbuilder?

[SpikeSpiegel]

In my previous post, no complains intended; i just wanted to underline the non-sense voting system of this nice event, and the non-sense votes expressed by Zso-Zso in last two rounds.

In round 2 he votes us just because our name remind to  (bringing harm to other teams), in round 3 didn't vote for us just because the mess he did in the former round (bringing harm to us).

Sure, I am making non-sense votes, after all I have no clue about Brawl or Elements in general.
Whatever I vote I am always harming someone, so maybe I should leave the whole event alone, just like all the other thousands of forum members who do not vote at all...

Don't take offence. You are the Light Master, and you're free to support us, but you should vote what you find better, not us just because our team fits  element.

Your votes in previous round sounded to us like: "I don't give a f....k about what you've done, but you're  so here's my vote." And now again "Oh, you spent hours on your tasks doing something good? I don't care, i voted you all last time, now i vote someone else..."

I find this even worse considering that you're a Master, that means to be a respected veteran that should be an example for other members.

Again, don't take offence, i'm pretty sure that, if you think about it, you will attain my own conclusion.

[asymmetry]

Sure, I am making non-sense votes, after all I have no clue about Brawl or Elements in general.
Whatever I vote I am always harming someone, so maybe I should leave the whole event alone, just like all the other thousands of forum members who do not vote at all...

(...)I find this even worse considering that you're a Master, that means to be a respected veteran that should be an example for other members.

Again, don't take offence, i'm pretty sure that, if you think about it, you will attain my own conclusion.

Zso, I PM'd you briefly along these lines, but SS nailed it. The votes were ok, you can choose whatever you want and we all know it without the aid of fancy gifs.
The votes are not the point. The fact that you used them to prove the weakness of the voting system, instead of suggesting improvements, stirred up the hornet's nest unintelligently.

No offense.

[Ian007]

artist: 1. Death Dost Dominate, 'cause lotsa buttons, very info
           2. Silver Ferns, 'cause much pretty, me likey

boss: Death Dost Dominate, soo boo, grows BIG when upgraded

CD/OT: 1. The Cuckoo's Nest, cool cards, synergy EVERYWHERE
                2. Death Dost Dominate, Brawler hehe, Thief neato

DB: 1. Silver Ferns
        2. Death Dost Dominate

FE: 1. Whispers in the Dark,
        2. The Cuckoo's Nest:

Writer 1. Death Dost Dominate, nice poem
            2. Divine Light, funny

[eljoemo]

Feedback Time!

Spoiler for Artist!:

Votes - WITD & DL

DL - I love it. It looks fancy. It tells me what I need to know. Basically, I would want to play this game, so job well done! A gold star (or a vote) to you!

CN - The effects look nice just a tad random. There's some fire, a weird purply swirl, a planet (wat?!) and then some steam (or smoke); it just seems pretty disjoint and manic. Plus the "No pay to win" thing put me off. I'd rather you just say its free or something.

SF - I just don't like the way it looks. The way you tried to copy the Elements text doesn't look good. The faded white and gold colour scheme isn't the best. It doesn't really tell me much. Its just not the best in general.

DDD - I never was a fan of that kind of ad. I'm not saying its bad, I just don't like it. It tells me stuff but it isn't appealing.

Spoiler for Boss!:

Votes - WITD & DL

DL - Meh, I'm not too over struck. The effect is sound and makes sense thematically (Going off that video you have, I've never play TF2). You get the vote because yours was better than the rest.

DDD - Too over complex and too poorly written. Making a Boo was a good choice IMO, but you didn't do the best job of it. Given the nature of Boos, darkness would probably be the best element, not death; they aren't that type of ghost. The whole only attacking when cloaked is not a good move. You need to have cloak in your deck in order to even be slightly useful, greatly restricting the use of this card. And the other effect is complicated and unnecessary. Basically, no. You also lose points for the upgraded not being called "King Boo".

CN - Joey had the idea to make his card swap elements when upgraded and I said it would be a bad idea. I stand by those words. Having a card which COMPLETELY changes when upgrading is stupid. Its two separate cards basically. You focused too heavily on matching your card to its source material and forgot it was supposed to be a workable card.

Spoiler for Card Designer!:

Votes - WITD & DDD

I only just managed to make my 8 cards, so if you think I'm looking at each card in particular, think again. Basically, I believe elements is complete enough to the point that it doesn't need any huge new mechanics. New cards will improve the game, new opponents will improve the game, a new class system/ follower slot... I don't think so. Maybe its just me but I think it would just make things even more complicated. Plus DDD's cards seemed the best to me.

Spoiler for Deck Builder!:

Votes - WITD & SF

CN - Everything just feels unrelated and disjoint. Instead of taking some UP cards and putting them together in a way that they become powerful, it seems like you just stuck some together in a deck.

DL - You did a better job of making combos between the UP cards. Cards work together to become stronger (and not UP). You would have got the vote except I think SF's deck is better. Sorry.

SF - Everything works together, one card's weakness is another's strength. There's a lot of solid workable combos involved, and it all seems good.

DDD - Nothing really works together here. I can't see any cards strengthening each other. Basically the same feedback that CN got.

Spoiler for Forum Expert!:

Votes - WITD & CN

My votes don't change a thing, but I did it anyway. No bias here, I genuinely prefer WITD's submission. Main reason, I missed the first few sentences while I was trying to figure out when the tutorial was gonna start. Then I had to read some tiny writing at the top. Basically, Listening > Reading.

Ahhh, the sweet taste of free points...

Spoiler for Writer!:

Votes - WITD & CN

DL - Either the moral of this story is "Krzy is God of all and has magical powers" or "Golems are better than phoenixes" or there is no moral. Either way, this makes a great story (it really does) but a bad fable.

DDD - Scorpio isn't even that hard to beat with PDials, sheesh. But what is the moral here? Don't get stung by scorpions? Meh.

SF - Either SF's writer knows what cards Zanz is gonna add next, or they misread the instructions. My money's on the second one.

CN - A deep meaningful story with a moral that many people should learn. Learn from the past, don't live in it.

[rob77dp]

Replies below in yellow are all in reference to comment RE: DDD submissions...

Feedback Time!

Spoiler for Artist!:

Votes - WITD & DL

DL - I love it. It looks fancy. It tells me what I need to know. Basically, I would want to play this game, so job well done! A gold star (or a vote) to you!

CN - The effects look nice just a tad random. There's some fire, a weird purply swirl, a planet (wat?!) and then some steam (or smoke); it just seems pretty disjoint and manic. Plus the "No pay to win" thing put me off. I'd rather you just say its free or something.

SF - I just don't like the way it looks. The way you tried to copy the Elements text doesn't look good. The faded white and gold colour scheme isn't the best. It doesn't really tell me much. Its just not the best in general.

DDD - I never was a fan of that kind of ad. I'm not saying its bad, I just don't like it. It tells me stuff but it isn't appealing.

Well, the thought behind the design was to incorporate the feel of Elements - same gray-scale woodgrain pattern, same font type, images from gameplay.  Also a nice big button i.e. - call-to-action - is included.  Based on internet 'research' done, these are very commonly considered good banner ad design characteristics.  However, as voting has borne out so far in Brawl, opinion is what matters so please note this simply rebuttal and not taking exception to your votes or supporting reasoning.

Spoiler for Boss!:

Votes - WITD & DL

DL - Meh, I'm not too over struck. The effect is sound and makes sense thematically (Going off that video you have, I've never play TF2). You get the vote because yours was better than the rest.

DDD - Too over complex and too poorly written. Making a Boo was a good choice IMO, but you didn't do the best job of it. Given the nature of Boos, darkness would probably be the best element, not death; they aren't that type of ghost. The whole only attacking when cloaked is not a good move. You need to have cloak in your deck in order to even be slightly useful, greatly restricting the use of this card. And the other effect is complicated and unnecessary. Basically, no. You also lose points for the upgraded not being called "King Boo".

CN - Joey had the idea to make his card swap elements when upgraded and I said it would be a bad idea. I stand by those words. Having a card which COMPLETELY changes when upgrading is stupid. Its two separate cards basically. You focused too heavily on matching your card to its source material and forgot it was supposed to be a workable card.

I have re-read the card several times and it seems pretty clear, albeit very busy, card text.  Cloak is simply not required for attacking, rather it is only one way to counter-act how the opponent can keep Boo/Big Boo from attacking.  The "shy" mechanic very closely resembles how the little Boo enemies act in Super Mario World - when Mario faces them they stop moving and cannot be killed except very special circumstances = opponent has a creature in opposite creature slot on game-board.  King Boo is also only loosely related to the Boo and Big Boo of the Mario-verse.  Boos and Big Boos in-game within Mario-verse are simply small and large versions of each others; King Boo is a completely separate Boo character type.  *insert same disclaimer as above rebuttal*

Spoiler for Card Designer!:

Votes - WITD & DDD

I only just managed to make my 8 cards, so if you think I'm looking at each card in particular, think again. Basically, I believe elements is complete enough to the point that it doesn't need any huge new mechanics. New cards will improve the game, new opponents will improve the game, a new class system/ follower slot... I don't think so. Maybe its just me but I think it would just make things even more complicated. Plus DDD's cards seemed the best to me.

A TON of effort went into this task.  Many hours by most all on the team were required to even get the semi-balanced and thoughtful card series to the point you see in the submission.  Thanks for the vote, eljo!

Spoiler for Deck Builder!:

Votes - WITD & SF

CN - Everything just feels unrelated and disjoint. Instead of taking some UP cards and putting them together in a way that they become powerful, it seems like you just stuck some together in a deck.

DL - You did a better job of making combos between the UP cards. Cards work together to become stronger (and not UP). You would have got the vote except I think SF's deck is better. Sorry.

SF - Everything works together, one card's weakness is another's strength. There's a lot of solid workable combos involved, and it all seems good.

DDD - Nothing really works together here. I can't see any cards strengthening each other. Basically the same feedback that CN got.

Much has been made over this task in related Brawl threads.  I stand behind the comments made by Odii regarding this.  Some submissions I consider to meet the task requirements and other submissions I consider not meeting the requirements.  My private votes went to the two submissions that at least adhered to the CIA card-choice limitations.  *insert boiler-plate rebuttal disclaimer here*

Spoiler for Forum Expert!:

Votes - WITD & CN

My votes don't change a thing, but I did it anyway. No bias here, I genuinely prefer WITD's submission. Main reason, I missed the first few sentences while I was trying to figure out when the tutorial was gonna start. Then I had to read some tiny writing at the top. Basically, Listening > Reading.

Ahhh, the sweet taste of free points...

A very tough task considering the time input involved for some of the other tasks in this same round.  I am of the opinion reading >> listening but this likely stems from my time majority spent in environments where having to have sound bothers many others.  Reading can be done quite silently! *disclaimer here*

Spoiler for Writer!:

Votes - WITD & CN

DL - Either the moral of this story is "Krzy is God of all and has magical powers" or "Golems are better than phoenixes" or there is no moral. Either way, this makes a great story (it really does) but a bad fable.

DDD - Scorpio isn't even that hard to beat with PDials, sheesh. But what is the moral here? Don't get stung by scorpions? Meh.

SF - Either SF's writer knows what cards Zanz is gonna add next, or they misread the instructions. My money's on the second one.

CN - A deep meaningful story with a moral that many people should learn. Learn from the past, don't live in it.

Perhaps vague in nature, I still consider DDD's fable to have a solid "moral".  Keep children away from poison.  The fables which used the title or direct statements in them to give the moral seems a lot like movies that give "THE END" screens upon conclusion... *disclaimer*

[eljoemo]

Well, the thought behind the design was to incorporate the feel of Elements - same gray-scale woodgrain pattern, same font type, images from gameplay.  Also a nice big button i.e. - call-to-action - is included.  Based on internet 'research' done, these are very commonly considered good banner ad design characteristics.  However, as voting has borne out so far in Brawl, opinion is what matters so please note this simply rebuttal and not taking exception to your votes or supporting reasoning.

The way you used the elements images was a big plus for you. Its just I would rather be intrigued than instructed. To elaborate, I'd rather approach a new game feeling like I'm discovering it for myself rather than doing exactly what I've been told to. Its the same reason I'd rather play with a deck I've made/ modified than to just copy one. Plus, the fact that I've seen lots of ads on the same idea as yours probably didn't help.

I have re-read the card several times and it seems pretty clear, albeit very busy, card text.  Cloak is simply not required for attacking, rather it is only one way to counter-act how the opponent can keep Boo/Big Boo from attacking.  The "shy" mechanic very closely resembles how the little Boo enemies act in Super Mario World - when Mario faces them they stop moving and cannot be killed except very special circumstances = opponent has a creature in opposite creature slot on game-board.  King Boo is also only loosely related to the Boo and Big Boo of the Mario-verse.  Boos and Big Boos in-game within Mario-verse are simply small and large versions of each others; King Boo is a completely separate Boo character type.  *insert same disclaimer as above rebuttal*

I can see that you tried to match it to the source (Mario Bros being the only of the games I am familiar with) but I feel you lost some of the workability by trying to make an exact replica. If the Shy ability was more straight-forward (and didn't require cloak) then you probably would have won the vote. Leading onto the cloak discussion, if you play a deck with Boos and no cloak, you have six 0|2 (or 0|6) creatures with no ability (unless I read the card wrong). Pretty much useless. So unless you have a scheme which requires those particular stats and no other cheaper creature will do, you really do have to use a cloak. And that really cuts down usefulness. And I was joking about the King Boo thing, I'm not mean enough to hate your idea because I would have named it differently

A very tough task considering the time input involved for some of the other tasks in this same round.  I am of the opinion reading >> listening but this likely stems from my time majority spent in environments where having to have sound bothers many others.  Reading can be done quite silently! *disclaimer here*

Headphones Rob, headphones.

Perhaps vague in nature, I still consider DDD's fable to have a solid "moral".  Keep children away from poison.  The fables which used the title or direct statements in them to give the moral seems a lot like movies that give "THE END" screens upon conclusion... *disclaimer*

I don't mind "The End" screens so long as the movie was good. And although "Don't let your children near scorpions." is good advice, it is pretty obvious. If any parent didn't know that, I'd be calling child services pretty quick. But CN's moral was more obscure and meaningful, while still being true.

[the dictator]

(snip)
Leading onto the cloak discussion, if you play a deck with Boos and no cloak, you have six 0|2 (or 0|6) creatures with no ability (unless I read the card wrong).
(snip)

You did read the card wrong. The Boos will attack when under cloak, but when there is no cloak they will still attack UNLESS the matching creature slot on the opposing side is occupied (hence why combining them with fractal can make for such an effective deck). Thus, even without cloak, Boo's can still be useful, especially when you toss some (repeatable) CC into your deck. Which brings us to the reason it's a card, for easier combining with other on death effects

Perhaps vague in nature, I still consider DDD's fable to have a solid "moral".  Keep children away from poison.  The fables which used the title or direct statements in them to give the moral seems a lot like movies that give "THE END" screens upon conclusion... *disclaimer*

I don't mind "The End" screens so long as the movie was good. And although "Don't let your children near scorpions." is good advice, it is pretty obvious. If any parent didn't know that, I'd be calling child services pretty quick. But CN's moral was more obscure and meaningful, while still being true.

Keeping your children away from scorpions/poison = good. Teaching your children to avoid them = better.

[dawn to dusk]

Keeping your children away from scorpions/poison = good. Teaching your children to avoid them = better.

Y'know the old saying, give a man a fish and he'll eat for a night, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for longer or whatever it is.