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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537755#msg537755
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2012, 08:37:19 am »
To be honest, I somehow missed root's mentioning of himself (blame college). In all reality, he should have been disqualified for that.
We choose to make voting anonymous to reduce bias. We may change it in Brawl 2, I dont know.

I find it quite strict to be in danger of disqualifying just because you mentioned yourself by mistake. Furthermore, the whole anonymous voting just doesn't work. I have already spoiled a few entries and I can spoil many more without being told whose work is each one. It is just so obvious in some cases. Because of the above, I would prefer to see the creator's name revealed rather than all these hypocrisy of not knowing the creator of an entry when we actually know him/her...
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Offline RootRanger

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537766#msg537766
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2012, 11:47:41 am »
So, not only is the word "Root" going to be censored, but I'm supposed to be disqualified for attempting to use it even when it can easily be censored?

I guess you should add that to the rules.
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Offline Absol

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537770#msg537770
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2012, 12:13:59 pm »
To be honest, I somehow missed root's mentioning of himself (blame college). In all reality, he should have been disqualified for that.
We choose to make voting anonymous to reduce bias. We may change it in Brawl 2, I dont know.

I find it quite strict to be in danger of disqualifying just because you mentioned yourself by mistake. Furthermore, the whole anonymous voting just doesn't work. I have already spoiled a few entries and I can spoil many more without being told whose work is each one. It is just so obvious in some cases. Because of the above, I would prefer to see the creator's name revealed rather than all these hypocrisy of not knowing the creator of an entry when we actually know him/her...
+1. It's not that hard to recognize the writing style of a certain person, or art style for that matter. I'm sure people can recognize my writing too.
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Offline n00b

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537779#msg537779
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2012, 01:04:49 pm »
I'd say the one thing I dislike is the lack of teamwork needed. I mean, obviously people can and should ask their teammates for help/advice/etc. on their tasks, but what if there was a way to force them to work together, something like a team task where each person must contribute different parts? Just a thought
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Offline Absol

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537806#msg537806
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2012, 03:42:56 pm »
Worth noting:
As far as i see, there's only one difference between Writer and Off-Topicker: the theme. Writer writes writing Elements-themed, and Off-Topicker writes anything else.
We can have more different role than this.
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537813#msg537813
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2012, 03:57:47 pm »
So, not only is the word "Root" going to be censored, but I'm supposed to be disqualified for attempting to use it even when it can easily be censored?

I guess you should add that to the rules.
" Because the voting is to be anonymous to lower bias, self advertising is grounds for automatically losing a round. " I had hoped this would imply putting your name on your work as self advertisement. You aren't disqualified for that round because we missed it.

Worth noting:
As far as i see, there's only one difference between Writer and Off-Topicker: the theme. Writer writes writing Elements-themed, and Off-Topicker writes anything else.
We can have more different role than this.
Such as?
I'm aware that they are very similar, but those sections of the forums are very similar. How can I vary these two sections in the future?

I'd say the one thing I dislike is the lack of teamwork needed. I mean, obviously people can and should ask their teammates for help/advice/etc. on their tasks, but what if there was a way to force them to work together, something like a team task where each person must contribute different parts? Just a thought
We could try that in Brawl 2.

Anonymous voting will not be removed for Brawl 1, since we already have it as an established rule for the event. Changing the rules part way through is not something I think should be done in any competition. However, if continued dislike of the system continues, we will remove it in Brawl 2.

Thanks for the advice and vote of confidence, oldtrees.
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537815#msg537815
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2012, 04:04:38 pm »
^Just to mention something important; the fact we disagree with some of the rules doesn't mean we do not respect all the hard work that you, the Brawlmasters, undertake in order to run the event. We are really thankful to you, Naesala and UTAlan, for running the event, but we believe a few rule changes would be better in Brawl 2. :)
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537820#msg537820
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2012, 04:56:24 pm »
^Just to mention something important; the fact we disagree with some of the rules doesn't mean we do not respect all the hard work that you, the Brawlmasters, undertake in order to run the event. We are really thankful to you, Naesala and UTAlan, for running the event, but we believe a few rule changes would be better in Brawl 2. :)

Thanks :) I hope that my questions don't seem condescending in anyway; I really appreciate all the advice you guys are giving!
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Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537838#msg537838
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2012, 06:22:57 pm »
Submission in votings are supposed to be anonymous, but, since some of the authors can be recognized, in the next brawl i suggest to make the author public, so we know exactly who did what, rather than recognize one author and have 5 submissions anonymous...
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537845#msg537845
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2012, 06:38:55 pm »
The ease of identifying authors will decrease as the teams increase towards 12. The allegiance of each submission can be made anonymous if the entries are scrambled (for example Gravity isn't always the second submission). I do not know if the entries have been scrambled or not.

Anonymous voting works of the idea that it is easier to vote for an idea than it is to identify the authors and then vote for your favored author. It is not meant to make biased voting impossible. Rather it is meant to convert some biased votes into unbiased votes.

With this in mind I would recommend not punishing an author for being identifiable but to still punish authors that try to advertise. I do not think any of the current examples qualify as advertising. Furthermore I see no problem with RootRanger using the word root or even the word Root provided it is not an attempt to advertise. I trust Root's integrity in this manner and trust the competence of the organizers to be able to carry out this policy if anyone without integrity joins a future Brawl.

Sidenote: An anecdote about anonymous voting
When I vote in a card design poll or card competition, I tend to agree more with the results if it used anonymous voting.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 06:42:08 pm by OldTrees »
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Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537859#msg537859
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2012, 07:40:38 pm »
The ease of identifying authors will decrease as the teams increase towards 12. The allegiance of each submission can be made anonymous if the entries are scrambled (for example Gravity isn't always the second submission). I do not know if the entries have been scrambled or not.
Submission are scrambled, i can assure so, and this is not that great spoiler...

Sidenote: An anecdote about anonymous voting
When I vote in a card design poll or card competition, I tend to agree more with the results if it used anonymous voting.
I don't think so: if I have to vote, I have n-1 anonymous entries and one made by OldTrees, if I know you I would tend to vote you by voting your submission...
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Brawl #1 - Suggestions & Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=43147.msg537881#msg537881
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2012, 08:29:27 pm »
Sidenote: An anecdote about anonymous voting
When I vote in a card design poll or card competition, I tend to agree more with the results if it used anonymous voting.
I don't think so: if I have to vote, I have n-1 anonymous entries and one made by OldTrees, if I know you I would tend to vote you by voting your submission...
You misunderstand. I was talking about when I am not competing. However, even when I am competing, I tend to prefer the better card (even if it is not my own). When the submissions (including my own if I have one) are anonymous, the results and my vote have high correlation.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 08:33:39 pm by OldTrees »
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