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RedRevive

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Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg60277#msg60277
« on: April 28, 2010, 12:14:05 pm »
For those of you in the chat yesterday, we were blessed with having both Bishonen and Jallen talking about how well their decks were doing in grinding false gods  :P.  Anyways, at first, I was quick to scold Bishonen in saying that his mono-fire deck was not strong at grinding false gods, nor did he deserve to boast about it if he skipped certain gods.

I tried it out in the trainer, and surprisingly, I went 50/50 in 10 matches (of which gods I am unsure).  Honestly I think it needs more testing, and permanent controlling gods wreck this, but it's a nice break from grinding with rainbow all the time.

Here's his deck

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
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« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 03:36:19 pm by willng3 »

Snowstorm

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg60881#msg60881
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 06:55:53 pm »
I can attest to the usefulness of this deck. It's certainly a fun break from playing a long complicated rainbow against them. I wonder how many other mono/dual element decks there are out there that can be tuned to do well ( or even okish would be profitable) against the false gods. not specifically to be the most profitable out there, but anything that makes a little cash would be fun.

edit: also i noticed you posted the deck slightly differently to how i believe bish uses it:

+1 explosion
+3 firestorm

nothingfarm

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg61017#msg61017
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 12:06:22 am »
edit: also i noticed you posted the deck slightly differently to how i believe bish uses it:
+1 explosion
+3 firestorm
Which cards are swapped out for those 4? Or are they just added in, bringing it to 34 cards? Do you add in any more pillars too?

I did a bit of testing on it today, and built as it was listed above it didn't do so well. I can see the firestorms being a big help. If you let me know the exact nature of modifications I'd be happy to try it out again.

Results with build posted by RedRevive:
8-36 (18% win ratio)
I can only see possibly converting 4 of those losses into wins with better play, so that would present a best case scenario win ratio of 27%.
Paradox, Neptune, and Destiny seem like the only easy wins, with Eldinis and Fire Queen presenting a fighting chance. Outside of those the only possibilities I can see are specific cases - Gemini without a massive clone spam, Ferox not drawing a shield until very late, and Eternal Phoenix not drawing more than 2 or 3 explosions. I did not encounter Chaos Lord, Osiris, Hermes, or Octane.

Here are the results broken down by FG:
0-3 Graviton
0-4 Dark matter
0-2 Gemini
1-3 Eldinis
0-3 Scorpio
0-2 Rainbow
0-5 Obliterator
1-0 Paradox
0-1 Dream Catcher
2-2 Fire Queen
0-2 Incarnate
0-1 Ferox
0-2 Morte
0-1 Seism
0-2 Eternal phoenix
2-0 Neptune
0-1 Miracle
0-1 Decay
2-0 Destiny
0-1 Divine Glory

Edit:
Deleted the game-by-game analysis. Adding in the firestorms as per Snowstorm's suggestion made a rundown of the version I tested here unnecessary. New post with a breakdown on firestorm version coming later today

Snowstorm

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg61040#msg61040
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 01:07:33 am »
im pretty sure its as posted plus cards, so 34. I'm not 100% certain tho, ask bish :)

nothingfarm

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg61447#msg61447
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2010, 12:24:26 am »
Less extensive test done today. The addition of the cards as per Snowstorms suggestion made a noticeable difference. I was worried about it making it hard to draw sufficient pillars and/or fire bucklers, but the performance speaks for itself:
9-21 (30%)
Best case scenario, there was one loss that was maybe possibly salvageable (my first time playing Osiris with this deck type) which would have resulted in 33%. I also didn't draw Paradox, Neptune, or Destiny once which definitely hurt my win chances. So a win ratio in the 35% ballpark doesn't seem unreasonable with this build.

Here's how I rate each FG with this deck... Edit: see Bishonen's post below for more highly tested analysis and tips on FG's

Easy win: 4
Fire Queen, Neptune, Paradox, Destiny
Hard win: 6
Eldinis, Graviton, Eternal Phoenix, Rainbow, Incarnate, Chaos Lord
Nigh impossible: 9
Dark Matter, Seism, Miracle, Osiris, Ferox, Gemini, Dream Catcher, Hermes, Obliterator
Unknown: 5
Decay, Scorpio, Morte, Divine Glory, Octane

Bishonen

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg61597#msg61597
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2010, 08:42:04 am »
Ah, I feel all special and what not. Not sure how to do the screen shot nor am I wanting to take the time at 4am. 10 fire towers, 6 SoG, 6 lances, 3 deflags, 3 heights, 3 buckler, 3 storms.  That is a grand total of 34. Can not defeat rainbow unless you are the luckiest person ever. Difficult times with any of the death/dark decks. about a 73% win ration over any of the greens (ferox is almost a guaranteed win), I don't think I have lost to Neptune once, The time decks have a very large percentage win with the aexception of Osirus which is about a 50/50. Difficulties with Oblivion and Seism though it is doable.  The reason I play the deck is because it is fun and reliable. Usually if you are praying for something to just eek that win out it is the next card rolling. More often than not the win is with full health especially against the green, blue and time FGs. This deck in my opinion is not for the faint of heart. Sometimes it is better to take that extra hit or two than to waste the quantumn for the short term damage reduction. Tips for the deck, if you know you have a Fg with a reflect shield, save the bolts for crowd control rather than getting in a couple of cheap shots in. Always get the fire shield out asap and because there are three weapons and shields most the time you don't lose them all. Often the false gods destroy a weapon so if you are saving quantumn for that finally look closely at the board if you are relying on the fire shield to destroy damage dealers and sometimes you can sacrifice a weapon for the sake of saving the shield and vice versa. It takes a little playing with to get used to what you can get away with on what FG.

A little edit to nothign farm having given some play instruction for the deck

Easy win:
Fire Queen, Neptune, Paradox, Destiny
(ferox falls between easy and hard, overly predictable on the rush and easy to set up a counter offense on him. Good example of bolt for CC because of refplective shield and let the height do its deed)

Hard win:
Eldinis (this one honestly boils down to draws), Graviton (Again draws, save the storms and dispatch one or two of the gravs with a 10+ quanta bolt), Eternal Phoenix (hate her, nuff said), Rainbow(This should be in the impossible have had 2 wins out of 18 now I could use a tip), Incarnate, Chaos Lord (This one teeters on easy and hard, it is all about the shield in the first 4 draws.)

Nigh impossible:  (any tips on how to better attack these would be helpful)
Dark Matter, Seism, Miracle, Osiris, Ferox(not that hard), Gemini (would move this one to hard. Trick here is to hold the bolts for the 8/30 massive dragon. Stock pile your storms and at least three bolts, use all other bolts to crowd control as best as you can. Get the dragon down to 9 health when it hits the deck and be prepared for a massive para univ on the next turn), Dream Catcher (deflag wisely, crowd control wisely), Hermes, Obliterator

Unknown: 5
Decay (nigh imposs), Scorpio (hard but doable), Morte ( Hard, bone shield is a pain save for the blasting), Divine Glory (Nigh impossible), Octane (Hard - key here is fire shield, he is his own worse enemy, pray for deflags for the gas clouds, ignore the owls until three or four are on the board and storm them 8/19 on the wins here great if you haven't upped your bolts usually get one on the spin)

This deck will start a decent FG attack when you have 7+tower and your shields upped to buckler. Would suggest finishing of lands and working lances past that. Upping Height isn't really worth the waste of electrum. So keep them normal till last if at all, same holds true for deflag.

nothingfarm

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg61973#msg61973
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 10:44:25 pm »
Thanks for the reply Bishonen!

To make the screen shot, you go into "My Deck" and copy the text in "Import/Export". Then you come to the forum post screen and click the Deck icon. In between the tags, paste your text and edit in your mark where it says "mark=MARK". It's really rather impressive, at least to me.

I totally agree with your general strat summary -- a lot of this deck comes down to learning how to play vs each gods. Some of them it's best to use your weapon as steal/explosion bait, other's it's the shield. Still others you want to hold your permanents as long as possible so the AI burns some destruction on your pillars. I found myself never using the fire bolts against the AI until I knew it would result in a win, which left me using them as mainly CC against decks with lots of reflective shields.

With Rainbow, I found it came down to how quickly it got hourglasses. If I had an early explosion, and it only drew one or two hourglasses in the first 15 turns, I was able to win. So it's definitely luck-based. Maybe I was just lucky in terms of the times I played Rainbow. I've only played about 4 or 5 games total against rainbow with this deck.

With Ferox, I found it impossible to outpace the massive amounts of empathies, being restricted just to the heit for damage due to the reflective shield. Even using all my damage spells on creatures as fast as sensibly possible (letting buckler take care of 5/3 or 1/3), I found I was unable to kill the AI before it got 8+ empathies out -- meaning every time it drew a creature or two it got enough HP to really slow me down. I decked out the 2 or 3 times I played Ferox. I guess this could be the opposite case of Rainbow though -- maybe I just didn't get any lucky slow empathy draws.

For Gemini, by the strat you described, did you mean let the dragon live with low HP so the AI still burns its clones on it, and then mop up with fire storms? I didn't try that, sounds viable though. I was burning my storms on recluses and killing the dragon outright -- which resulted in losing to either a clone wave of recluses or a later dragon that got insta-cloned.

My problem with Dream Catcher is I just couldn't kill all the butterfly'd creatures. That plus the quanta screws (earthquake and pests) left me pretty puzzled as to how to stop it. But I only had 2 or 3 games against it, and it's possible I got unlucky very high butterfly draws.

I'd definitely give more weight to your AI strats and analysis over mine, given that I've played far fewer games with this deck. Also thanks for getting this build out there via chat, if it hadn't popped up here I wouldn't have tried it -- I never would have imagined a 10 pillar 34 card mono fire deck could work as a FG farmer. It's nice to have another option as a change of pace when I need to grind out some cash!

Bishonen

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg62010#msg62010
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 01:37:23 am »

For Gemini, by the strat you described, did you mean let the dragon live with low HP so the AI still burns its clones on it, and then mop up with fire storms? I didn't try that, sounds viable though. I was burning my storms on recluses and killing the dragon outright -- which resulted in losing to either a clone wave of recluses or a later dragon that got insta-cloned.

My problem with Dream Catcher is I just couldn't kill all the butterfly'd creatures. That plus the quanta screws (earthquake and pests) left me pretty puzzled as to how to stop it. But I only had 2 or 3 games against it, and it's possible I got unlucky very high butterfly draws.

That is exactly what I meant on (edited name) Gemini, it ups your chances of winning by about 1 or 2 games out of 10. Also if he seems to have a low number of grav towers out there smite it with a deflag.

Dream Catcher sounds like you just got a few bad draws. Hard to explain the dream catcher fight, just one of those intuition things and a little use of the deck.

Bishonen

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg62013#msg62013
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2010, 01:43:16 am »
Code: [Select]
5f6 5f6 5f6 5f7 5f7 5f7 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dk 7dk 7dk 7dk 7dk 7dk 7dl 7dl 7dl 7do 7do 7do
Thank you for explaining this process to me Nothingfarm, took me a second but got it figured out now.

Well done to the devs too for such an ingenious little feature.

RedRevive

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg62286#msg62286
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2010, 05:46:05 pm »
Thank you nothingfarm and bishonen for updated stats!

30% isn't bad at all for a nonrainbow... plus it's a lot faster (right?)

Bishonen

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg62960#msg62960
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 09:32:53 pm »
Pretty quick, about 3 to 5 minutes per fight. Because it is a small deck and the AI takes very little time to roll out the most you would be looking at I would imagine is no more than a max of 8 mins. Usually the FG is dead by the time I am down to the 7th-11th card.

Offline yaladilae

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Re: Bishonen's Mono-Fire False God Deck https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=5896.msg62984#msg62984
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 10:20:31 pm »
Code: [Select]
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Thank you for explaining this process to me Nothingfarm, took me a second but got it figured out now.

Well done to the devs too for such an ingenious little feature.
As discussed, I believe it is very very good already, but prehaps this would make it a little more optimal!!!
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But like i said, already very amazing, esp. for a mono !!! Nice work

 

anything
blarg: RedRevive