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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg60309#msg60309
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2010, 02:26:08 pm »
Wouldn't some condors work nice with this deck? (Adding pillars or change mark?) Massive condors if the opponent destroys your RoL...

Offline Rastafla

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg60318#msg60318
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2010, 03:32:15 pm »
Wouldn't some condors work nice with this deck? (Adding pillars or change mark?) Massive condors if the opponent destroys your RoL...
Dont think so, gravitron + hermes and eternal are the ones that will use mass removal and they are too fast to make that 10-15 condor do any noticeable dmg.
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Offline Jangoo

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg60709#msg60709
« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2010, 11:07:46 am »

Also, any other god that kills your critters with single-target-dmg (Rainbow, Neptune, Obliterator ...) would instantly turn towards the condor(s) and leave the RoLs alone. Once the condor is done for: Back to the RoLs.

Seravy

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg61143#msg61143
« Reply #111 on: April 30, 2010, 10:31:41 am »
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Decay is kinda hard, but DEFINITELY NOT an autoquit. When he casts fractal first time, if u have some RoL in play, he will target your RoL, not his Pest.  ------ Thats the key to beat him. Make sure u have RoL when his quanta is enough to cast fractal, thats it. You need some luck and some strategy.
Too much luck needed for that to happen.
1.He can kill your rays with drain life if you play them early, killing your chance of playing the combo. (You can't fractal until you draw another)
2.He can steal your towers, and/or play unfractaled pests in the first 1-2 turns. That in itself is enough to prevent you from EVER having enough quantum to cast fractal because there are only 7-8 towers in the whole deck.
3. Even if you do manage to get a fractal played, the draining of quanta affects performance way too much, so there is a risk of either
-decking out before winning (not that likely)
-losing to his drain life spells before winning (very likely)
Overall, it ruins the "speed" strategy because you are both slower, and the win is not guaranteed even if you survive past turn 10...making it not worth playing. Time spent on the game is the real cost when grinding, and this one takes too much time for a less than 80% win rate, making it not worth the effort.
Might be better with other versions that play less fractals, hopes, and lobotomizers, but for my version it is bad.

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    I was reading some earlier posts and if you don't have 6 shards or atleast 2 lobos this deck is significantly less effective.
I've actually found that Lobotomizers are a pretty key card to victory, so I agree on that part. A minimum of 2 of them, or you'll lose at least 30-40% of games you could have won otherwise. I personally prefer 3.
Shards are a different matter. Against "destroy" gods, they are often a drawback instead of an advantage. I auto-quit Scorpio because playing that does need 4-6 shards, but the rest are beatable with only 1-2.
Besides 6 shards increases deck size to at least 34 cards, making you spend around 10% more time per game played, reducing overall farming speed.

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~FGs who do manage to put many poison counters on you (Scorpio/Morte). A "go around" via miracle could win the game but it's very dicy although I always do it.
Scorpio = Auto quit with my version, so no time lost on that. Morte is a bit risky indeed, but you can quit if you get too many poison in the early game, saving the time.

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~FGs who attempt to outheal you and sometimes succeed (Elidnis/Ferox/not-so-much FQ). Limited creature slots for RoLs because only the remainder of the 23 can be occupied by dragons. Unless you want to risk a rush which could be defeated by lots of early bonds. I have a strong feeling about modifying feral bond to exclude parallel/twin universed and immortal creatures because they are not really living are they?
Elidnis can't spam creatures, so he can't heal too much. Not that many ferals either. 6-7 dragons with 14-15 rays is usually enough,. The risk there is the growing creatures, you need to lobotomize them before they outgrow your shield.
Ferox is an auto-quit. The chance of winning is less than 10% I think. With an optimal, quick starting hand, if he draws a very low amount of bonds, he is beatable, but usually that won't happen.
Fire queen can't play enough creatures if you lobotomize her queens. If you don't have the lobo in time, quit, no time wasted.
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~The idiot Rainbow. Even with a good starting draw you can lose by not drawing dragons/fractals to finish him off, sometimes even if you do declare a miracle in between
With 6 fractals will win this most of time. When you couldn't lobotomize an early growing creature, and both your dragons are in the last 5-10 cards, then you might lose.
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~Osiris on occasion. Without early electrocutor you must conduct the operation of controlled feeding of RoLs to deck him out. Pretty much like feeding animals in the zoo.
Without early Electrocutor, you quit. As simple as that.

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Wouldn't some condors work nice with this deck? (Adding pillars or change mark?) Massive condors if the opponent destroys your RoL...
Already too low on aether quantum, so replacing the mark or the towers would make it a lot worse. Besides, if you lose your rays, you die in 1-2 turns to no defense. Even a 30/30 condor won't kill a god in that much time.

Offline Jangoo

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg61145#msg61145
« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2010, 11:01:12 am »
Quote
Decay is kinda hard, but DEFINITELY NOT an autoquit. When he casts fractal first time, if u have some RoL in play, he will target your RoL, not his Pest.  ------ Thats the key to beat him. Make sure u have RoL when his quanta is enough to cast fractal, thats it. You need some luck and some strategy.
Too much luck needed for that to happen.
1.He can kill your rays with drain life if you play them early, killing your chance of playing the combo. (You can't fractal until you draw another)
2.He can steal your towers, and/or play unfractaled pests in the first 1-2 turns. That in itself is enough to prevent you from EVER having enough quantum to cast fractal because there are only 7-8 towers in the whole deck.
3. Even if you do manage to get a fractal played, the draining of quanta affects performance way too much, so there is a risk of either
-decking out before winning (not that likely)
-losing to his drain life spells before winning (very likely)
Overall, it ruins the "speed" strategy because you are both slower, and the win is not guaranteed even if you survive past turn 10...making it not worth playing. Time spent on the game is the real cost when grinding, and this one takes too much time for a less than 80% win rate, making it not worth the effort.
Might be better with other versions that play less fractals, hopes, and lobotomizers, but for my version it is bad.
 

Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I used to autoquit him all the time, then got sick of it and started taking on the challenge.
Bottom line for me: Just play along as usual and you will see within the first few turns if the whole RoL-fractalizing thing works out. If yes: You almost won. If no: Quit now.

Seravy

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg63830#msg63830
« Reply #113 on: May 05, 2010, 01:04:33 pm »
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Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I used to autoquit him all the time, then got sick of it and started taking on the challenge.
Bottom line for me: Just play along as usual and you will see within the first few turns if the whole RoL-fractalizing thing works out. If yes: You almost won. If no: Quit now.
Well, I played two games...
in the first I had a weak start, but the god had no devourers for a long time. I was able to fractal+rol+hope before he played his first devourer. He then fractaled the rays, so I had quanta left for the remainder of the game.
I won with 0 cards left in deck, and during the last turn, all four of my dragons were able to hit through his shield, otherwise I'd have lost.
He can kill dragons with 1-2 syphons, and with lobotomized rays, you can't deploy too many of them, usually one every 2 turns...add his shield and you seriously risk decking out.

The second game I had an awesome draw (4 towers, fractal, rol, hope), and still lost...even though I had my rays out, he kept using his fractals on his devourers, and taken all my quanta before even drawing a second fractal or a dragon.

I also think lobotomize doesn't remove the ability from devourers...making it even harder to win.

Also, a suggestion against paradox (I think I didn't mention it yet) :
Lobotomize his rays, and ignore deja-vu's (unless they are buffed). Without ray's ability he can't play blessings, mirror shields, or miracles, so your victory is guaranteed. If you allow his blessings, you can easily lose...when he grows a ray to like 30/30 and copies it 5 times.


unionruler

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg63844#msg63844
« Reply #114 on: May 05, 2010, 01:46:28 pm »
Elidnis can't spam creatures, so he can't heal too much. Not that many ferals either. 6-7 dragons with 14-15 rays is usually enough,.
Something wrong with your reasoning here. With jade shield and heals he can also TU your creatures to serve his feral bonds. The regen is a greater risk than the growth.


Ferox is an auto-quit. The chance of winning is less than 10% I think. With an optimal, quick starting hand, if he draws a very low amount of bonds, he is beatable, but usually that won't happen.
Fire queen can't play enough creatures if you lobotomize her queens. If you don't have the lobo in time, quit, no time wasted.
The critical point for Ferox seems to be at 7 feral bonds and a jade shield. Anything less than that and you can win with a maximum of 10 RoLs on the field. Less than 10% is definitely untrue.
FQ without lobo is playable. Easier than ferox because you can fractal RoLs first and let her shoot/lance them and then use the slots for dragons.


Seravy

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg63875#msg63875
« Reply #115 on: May 05, 2010, 03:14:48 pm »
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Easier than ferox because you can fractal RoLs first and let her shoot/lance them and then use the slots for dragons.
If she can create fireflies, then...each bond heals her for 23 life. Basically, each bond negates two of your dragons.
1-With only 10 rays, you can't play more than 2 dragons every 3 turns.
2-Queen has access to fire quanta, at large amounts, so each firebolt kills a dragon, and her eagle eye (the one not animated yet) kills another one every 4 turns.

Overall, in my experience, the deck runs out before you can fill up the remaining slots all with dragons. In worst case, you might even be killed by firebolts, or Fahrenheits.
It might work for a more-than 30 card deck, and there is a chance of winning (maybe even pretty high), but the risk is too high so skipping without electrocutor is better.
Another reason to skip is the speed : Not only does it take long to win against all the healing, every firefly has an ability, animated one-by-one, making the turns last much longer (add the lag when both fields are full with creatures, too to that)
Overall, it's not really worth because it certainly takes too much time, while the win is far from guaranteed (but probably still not that bad of a chance).
Well "playable" yeah, but not worth it.
The goal of my deck is to only play when either the win chance is very high, or the game is decided in the first 5-6 turns, and skip the rest. It is purely for speed. For win %, other (especially rainbow) decks are better.

Ferox on the other hand...well...10% or 40, doesn't matter. If you can't be at least 70-80% certain of winning or losing around turn 5-8, it's a waste of time to even start. And winning entirely depends on luck here, you can't decide in the early game to continue or give up.

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Something wrong with your reasoning here. With jade shield and heals he can also TU your creatures to serve his feral bonds. The regen is a greater risk than the growth.
He has no miracles. Heals only give him 20 hp. As long as your damage is higher than his regen by at least 20-30, you'll win without trouble.
He is unlikely to have more than 4-5 ferals out, and even with 10 creatures, that is only 40-50 healing per turn. With 7 dragons, you still do 20 damage per turn.
Of course, if there is no risk of growing creatures killing you (most of the time there isn't because you lobo them if they don't have quint), more dragons and less rays is obviously better...but if there is an early quinted growing creature, and he grows it every turn, don't be afraid of playing more than 10 rays as necessary. The deciding factor will be when you draw your first dragon...if it is too late, both growing and regen can be trouble, if it is in the first 15 cards, then neither of them are, and you'll have no problems.

Also, more rays allow you to fill those remaining 7 slots with dragons immediately, giving even less time for him to play more creatures/bonds. (Of course only if you have the required fractals, but my deck plays 6 so there won't be a problem with that)

Ok, I played two more games against Decay, and it's not that bad as it looks like...I won both...and his deck consists of many of the same card, so you have a nicer chance of winning the spins.
So...I'd say when facing Decay :
-play if your starting hand has a large number of pillars and rays, with only few hopes/fractals, and elecs, otherwise don't bother.
-play your rays right away, even if you risk them getting killed. I suspect the order of creatures entering play is the deciding factor for fractal's target. In the game when he was fractaling pests, I played my ray a turn later than he did his pest.
-if you run out of rays (all of them get killed), or he plays fractal on a pest, immediately quit.
-Don't play the dragon unless you can fractal it right away or have a second copy because it can get killed.

Offline yaladilae

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg68660#msg68660
« Reply #116 on: May 14, 2010, 05:16:05 pm »
Since everyone wrote under this post for RoL hope, i would write here

Any thoughts on the below deck (the semi-current version I am using)
Semi-current because I need to stop upping relics and start upping some cards below

Code: [Select]
6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7jq 7k4 7k4 7k4 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i
5RoL feels quite Ok because automuligen pretty much means you draw 1 sooner or later

Lluis83

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg69182#msg69182
« Reply #117 on: May 15, 2010, 07:06:52 pm »
Semi-current because I need to stop upping relics and start upping some cards below



Why do you upped the relics?

miniwally

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg69185#msg69185
« Reply #118 on: May 15, 2010, 07:08:56 pm »
Semi-current because I need to stop upping relics and start upping some cards below



Why do you upped the relics?
I think he got bored.

Offline yaladilae

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg69190#msg69190
« Reply #119 on: May 15, 2010, 07:13:29 pm »
/off topic

The satification of upping a relic, you got to try it, its way better then sniffing cocaine

 

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