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Hyloblates

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg52340#msg52340
« Reply #84 on: April 12, 2010, 08:11:35 pm »
This is the final version of my deck :

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5lk 5lk 5lk 5lk 6rn 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7jq 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i
Seravy,

Could you elaborate on why you are using unupgraded Hopes?
I decided to go with un-upgraded Hope because the upgraded version costs more and all you get is 1 more to the shield.

Seravy may have a different reason.

Seravy

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg52381#msg52381
« Reply #85 on: April 12, 2010, 09:37:09 pm »
Quote
first of all, 4 fractals doesn't lose to rainbow if you play correctly. if you get out lobo relatively early, you can easily take out the damage from growth creatures and once you fractal once on a RoL, you take care of damage from shriekers and werewolves and such. by the time you use one fractal, you've taken care of damage with 6 shards for any overflow or damage you take in the meantime. however, you still have 3 fractals left for dragons. i actually usually play a second one on ray of lights and then i can fractal up to 16 dragons - more than enough. its all about strategic use of the card.
You forget one key card in Rainbow's deck : Eagle Eye. He kills a ray every turn, in addition to about 1 more per turn from spells, like gravity force, thunderbolt, or congeal.

So fractal 1, you get 6-7 rays. By the time you can play fractal 2(minimum 2, often 3 turns), you are down to 3-5 of them. You get 5-6 more. You'll need a third fractal otherwise you still won't have enough, especially because by this time, his growth creatures can easily reach 16-20+. Shards are useless against him, they get destroyed, so the lack of them in the deck is actually an advantage. So, unless you play 3 fractals on your rays, you'll be quite low on light quanta, and playing 16 (let's be more realistic 6-7) dragons won't be possible in time, not to mention taking excess damage. (his growing creatures will kill you somewhere around 3-10 cards left, depending on how fast he plays them)
You also need to spend 2-3 turns on attacking with pays ONLY (or maybe one dragon), and then play all 5-6 the dragons in a single turn, because he plays miracles, and by drawing 6-8 cards a turn, he'll draw it quite fast.
Even if he doesn't get an eagle eye, he can steal your lobotomizer, which has the same effect, neutralizing one ray per turn (although he usually replaces it with an eagle eye a few turns later anyway). Thanks to how fractal works, you can't keep it in your hand even if you know it will be used against you.

Quote
I decided to go with un-upgraded Hope because the upgraded version costs more and all you get is 1 more to the shield.
Same. I often end up with 7 (sometimes even less) light quanta the turn after playing fractal, and I can't always afford to wait another turn when the god has like 30+ damage on the table already. On the other hand, upgraded ones are obviously better in all other case, so this is hard to decide, really.

About the new gods, I'm very disappointed. The game was already too hard, now it is even harder.

Decay : This one is near hopeless for any mono-colored deck. Unless you play quantum towers, and have 3 quanta production per tower, all your quanta will be drained away. He can steal, and use your lobo (which he also has one of his own of), and kill you with drainlife, which Hope cannot prevent, if you don't lose to deckout before that happens. With all the quantum drain he has, you'll need a large amount of rays to even have a chance at stocking up quanta for a dragon+fractal combo, but then you'll be low on creature slots, and his dusk also prevents some damage...and he can gain life from drain life spells, and stolen shards too. Chances are you'll deck out, or lose early because he drains more quanta than whta you can produce and you'll be unable to even play the first fractal.
Adding this god to the game way beyond annoying. With the problem of most people playing rainbow, (due to the lack of other good decks) adding a god that basically forces you to play rainbow is beyond stupid. Especially after adding Dark Matter which is unbeatable with rainbow(not counting extreme luck), packed with specific anti-rainbow cards.

Neptune : 7 creature slots, with most of them being frozen ones = hopless. I won one with extreme luck, but otherwise I think I wont' even start playing. It takes up a huge amount of time, and with only 4-5 rays producing light  quanta, and dragons being one attack only (after that, flood kills them, or they get frozen from permafrost), deckout is likely. In addition, his 13 attack dragons can easily damage you and kill you over time because the highest you can get your hope up to is 7.
So, another recommended auto-quit.

Osiris : First turn lobotomizer, or you can forget it. With all those scarabs, your rays won't survive for more than a turn.
At least with the weapon he is relative easy, but when he plays 2 pharaohs per turn for 2-3 turns straight, he can still turn the game against you.

DreamCatcher : If he plays Discord, you lose, just like against Chaos Lord.
Even though Discord says to RANDOMLY change quantum, it is anything but random. It will keep changing your aether and light quanta into something else, and by the time you reach 8 of if, you already lost. Otherwise I don't have much experience against him yet.
Did I mention the game doesn't need cards and gods that are an indirect nerf to ANY non-rainbow deck? Discord is another one. Not being able to play cards of your primary color for 6 turns = loss of the game.

Minor Phonix : He only has 1 (meaning 2) firestorms. If he draws either of those in the middle game, after having several 15/3 dragons out, you'll lose because you can't build up 15 rays in a single turn, especially after already playing two-three fractals for the first 15 that got killed. Unfortunately, with all those explosions, which will destroy your towers, and his speed, losing to that can also happen easily before even playing a fractal, but after firestorm, without towers, you don't have a chance to build up enough quanta and rays before you lose to his dragons.

Overall :
2 new gods in the Auto-Quit category : Decay, Neptue
1 In the "Too random" category, like Gemini, I wouldn't waste my time on them, because you can lose in the late game, not just in the early game : Minor Phonex
1 in the Electrocutor or lose category : Osiris
And I don't know about Dream Cathcher yet, looks like a harder version of Chaos Lord, which already was an 50-50% game.

Overall, thanks for adding 4 more difficult gods, and only one "easy" one :(
At least Rainbow and Seism won't appear twice as often anymore...oh wait those ARE the ones easy with this deck.
I'd prefer to go back to rainbow decks now, but it's so very slow compared to this, it isn't even worth playing. Like 10-15 minutes per game, three times longer. Definitely isn't worth the higher win percentage, too slow.
In the end I've decided to ignore gods for now, until they get nerfed, and just play top 50, or pvp for fun. At least that deck is complete now, so I can do it.

Request to the developers: A new deck that can win 80%+of games on average that are not auto-quits(losing 20% to luck is OK, losing 50%+ is NOT), doesn't need to auto-quit more than three gods, and doesn't take more than 5 minutes per game on average. It's ok to play control against gods, but having to draw up the whole 40-60 card deck in most games, and then using eternity on myself to prevent deckout is insanely long for a single win. No thanks, I had enough of that.
I don't care if you nerf the gods, or add stronger cards, just do it. Ok actually I'd prefer the nerf to gods, the game already has way too strong cards in large amounts.

Offline Jangoo

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg52611#msg52611
« Reply #86 on: April 13, 2010, 11:00:48 am »
Neptune : 7 creature slots, with most of them being frozen ones = hopless. I won one with extreme luck, but otherwise I think I wont' even start playing. It takes up a huge amount of time, and with only 4-5 rays producing light  quanta, and dragons being one attack only (after that, flood kills them, or they get frozen from permafrost), deckout is likely. In addition, his 13 attack dragons can easily damage you and kill you over time because the highest you can get your hope up to is 7.
So, another recommended auto-quit.
The good thing about Neptune is that he is clearly laid out:

Either he comes out with the drags fast or he doesn't ...
If he does: quit, If he doesn't: keep winning.

Final set-up HAS TO be 5 RoLs + 2 drags ... count on Neptune shockwaving those two slots open for your drags later, then proceed fractalizing your drags and throwing them in one by one, turn by turn to take away another extra 10HP even if they will die right away.

Second thing is that flood shouldn't put you off ... keep rushing those RoLs up to three times early to collect the light quants you will need later and to save your HPs for the late game when (hopefully only) 1-2 Drags will eat away on you.


Request to the developers: [...]
As much as some of the content doesn't make sense, the general complaint had to be said again.
I would still edit that part out before this community strikes you dead with the "Gavel of Gratitude".  ;)

Clathius

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg52639#msg52639
« Reply #87 on: April 13, 2010, 12:39:33 pm »
Request to the developers:
I appreciate your comments and I could not agree more.   I have pretty much given up playing FG.    I was about to jump back in with this deck but I am glad you saved me the coins.    The whole FG thing seems lost in the woods.   

Offline jmizzle7

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg52641#msg52641
« Reply #88 on: April 13, 2010, 12:52:26 pm »
Just because the game has changed once again and a single anti-false god deck is a little bit less effective doesn't mean that the game is "too hard" or "broken." Just try something else. The false gods are supposed to be difficult, so if a deck no longer works to your liking, change it up. Test new decks in the trainer while you bash level 3 for more electrum. Be proactive, not reactive.

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg52746#msg52746
« Reply #89 on: April 13, 2010, 05:41:40 pm »
Decay : This one is near hopeless for any mono-colored deck. Unless you play quantum towers, and have 3 quanta production per tower, all your quanta will be drained away. He can steal, and use your lobo (which he also has one of his own of), and kill you with drainlife, which Hope cannot prevent, if you don't lose to deckout before that happens. With all the quantum drain he has, you'll need a large amount of rays to even have a chance at stocking up quanta for a dragon+fractal combo, but then you'll be low on creature slots, and his dusk also prevents some damage...and he can gain life from drain life spells, and stolen shards too. Chances are you'll deck out, or lose early because he drains more quanta than whta you can produce and you'll be unable to even play the first fractal.
Adding this god to the game way beyond annoying. With the problem of most people playing rainbow, (due to the lack of other good decks) adding a god that basically forces you to play rainbow is beyond stupid. Especially after adding Dark Matter which is unbeatable with rainbow(not counting extreme luck), packed with specific anti-rainbow cards.
Erm sorry... I didn't mean to make it force you play rainbow, I meant it to even kill rainbow. And it's (almost?) as good as Hermes for rainbows (well, I'm not sure of that -.-)
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Seravy

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg53132#msg53132
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2010, 01:27:55 pm »
Quote
The false gods are supposed to be difficult, so if a deck no longer works to your liking, change it up.
There are only two decks worthy of fighting false gods. If I have to change it, it means there is only one remaining, Rainbow. Which is so slow even grinding TOP50 is better money.

Basic logic :

Gods = Only way of earning cards/electrum in the game at a reasonable speed
Gods = Difficult, challenging, and you also dependent on luck.

|
V
Only way of earning cards/electrum in the game at a reasonable speed = Difficult, challenging, and also dependent on luck

Isn't that...very bad?


Offline AnoverX

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg55185#msg55185
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2010, 01:54:39 pm »
Decay : This one is near hopeless for any mono-colored deck. Unless you play quantum towers, and have 3 quanta production per tower, all your quanta will be drained away. He can steal, and use your lobo (which he also has one of his own of), and kill you with drainlife, which Hope cannot prevent, if you don't lose to deckout before that happens. With all the quantum drain he has, you'll need a large amount of rays to even have a chance at stocking up quanta for a dragon+fractal combo, but then you'll be low on creature slots, and his dusk also prevents some damage...and he can gain life from drain life spells, and stolen shards too. Chances are you'll deck out, or lose early because he drains more quanta than whta you can produce and you'll be unable to even play the first fractal.
Adding this god to the game way beyond annoying. With the problem of most people playing rainbow, (due to the lack of other good decks) adding a god that basically forces you to play rainbow is beyond stupid. Especially after adding Dark Matter which is unbeatable with rainbow(not counting extreme luck), packed with specific anti-rainbow cards.
Decay is kinda hard, but DEFINITELY NOT an autoquit. When he casts fractal first time, if u have some RoL in play, he will target your RoL, not his Pest.  ------ Thats the key to beat him. Make sure u have RoL when his quanta is enough to cast fractal, thats it. You need some luck and some strategy.

You can see how funny it could be if you got enough luck.


Normally he would still have 4-6 Pests, that might be a problem, but if u can put out like 12-15 fast, soon, he will fill his board with RoLs.. and you win.



bojengles77

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg55313#msg55313
« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2010, 06:55:27 pm »
I'm at three wins and four losses against decay he's really not that bad since he fractals your rol. I've recently decided to add another lobo to the deck to increase my chance of having one since they are absolutely vital against a majority of the gods. If I get one out during my first or second turn I rarely lose since the gods will just be playing useless creatures. I was reading some earlier posts and if you don't have 6 shards or atleast 2 lobos this deck is significantly less effective. Also non upgraded version is much much worse since getting set up fast is vital and getting a boost from towers and decreased cost in wether cards makes all the difference in the world so if your deck doesn't meet those criteria you need to farm for those cards and then try again. Right now my record with this deck is 64-40 with about 30 e/ms. But take Hermes and octane out of that record and that's about ten auto losses gone... I've never beaten octane since I don't have a mirror shield in my deck and Hermes needs to not draw fire shield or rain of fire for you to win... Very unlikely

sorry for any sloppy spelling or grammar I'm doing this from my phone

unionruler

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg55544#msg55544
« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2010, 02:38:33 am »
I was reading some earlier posts and if you don't have 6 shards or atleast 2 lobos this deck is significantly less effective.
For goodness sake show some respect for your fellow deckbuilders instead of making these broad overarching statements which you don't have the authority to. Some of them are probably more experienced than you, and they probably play their own decks much better than anyone else would.

bojengles77

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg55557#msg55557
« Reply #94 on: April 19, 2010, 03:12:12 am »
i'm not saying this as a condescending statement to anyone - i know there are plenty of people more apt to produce effective decks. However, on this particular deck i have nearly 200 games played and i've found that the deck is less effective without these rare cards. Some people were finding that their deck wasn't working well, i was telling them why, thats all. There's no healing besides shards to keep you alive while you get up your shield, and you need lobo to stop things like otyughs, ulitharids, or momentums.

Offline AnoverX

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg56902#msg56902
« Reply #95 on: April 21, 2010, 06:30:58 am »
For the new FGs, my current stats are
6-1 (Decay)
1-4 (Pheonix)
3-2 (Neptune)
2-4 (Osiris)
Well it wasnt bad. Or mb i was just lucky?

For me, Pheonix is the worst enemy among them. Same stratedy like Decay but much much faster; normally I couldnt even survive before I played a hope.

Btw im using the bojengles77 version with a few tweaks (-1 Dragon, -2 SoGs, +1 Fractal, +1 Luciferin and +1 Improved Miracle).

 

blarg: