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miniwally

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg48997#msg48997
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2010, 10:01:16 pm »
I assume you're being sarcastic but if you do it near the end when you have like 5 dragons out then you can get an easy rush attack working.

Frz

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49012#msg49012
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2010, 10:36:06 pm »
Good idea !!! 4 turn to butterfly, 3 turn for each prmamenet destrution..
and a 30 card deck only has 24 turns...
I don't see your point. According to your calculations you get 6 explodes under perfect circumstances. 3 Should be possible most of the time. For most situations that's enough...

Offline yaladilae

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49018#msg49018
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2010, 10:51:45 pm »
Good idea !!! 4 turn to butterfly, 3 turn for each prmamenet destrution..
and a 30 card deck only has 24 turns...
I don't see your point. According to your calculations you get 6 explodes under perfect circumstances. 3 Should be possible most of the time. For most situations that's enough...
The point is, it takes you 7 turns to destory the1st thing,
Then 10th turn, 13th 16th 19th 22th...

Its too slow...

Having another mark speeds up the killing and the defending...
As opposed to having your hand stuck with a butterfly effect (and probably you need more then 1 there to make sure you draw it)

Ghoststalker

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49035#msg49035
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2010, 11:37:35 pm »
and this is only the case, if you have butterfly in your hand within the first 10 cards, which is in average only the case if you have three kind of it in your deck. in any way, it is not a good choice

TheNemesis

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49188#msg49188
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2010, 09:17:04 am »
and if u think butterfly effect, why not just mark of fire and explosions?

Offline Exarp

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49208#msg49208
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2010, 12:11:57 pm »
Sometimes, I really wished I could destroy one or two permanents, so I could have won that game instead of losing it. Another annoyance was when my electrocutor got stolen and used against my RoLs.
At other times, I get a semi-crappy draw, and i needed just one more turn to fractal or play hope... but got out rushed.

This gave me three excuses to change to entropy, and add a few supernovas.
Code: [Select]
6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 77i 7dm 7dm 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jp 7jq 7jq 7k4 7k4 7k4 808 808 808 808 808 808 80e 80e 80i 80i 80i 80iI decided to remove one RoL, since I never had any trouble drawing them.
6 towers may seem too few, but with auto-mulligan, you usually end up drawing one or two in your first hand, accompanied by a RoL or two.
Usually, you'll be able to play hope/fractal sooner, thanks to supernovas.
Against Seism and Divine Glory, I protect my towers, and against others, my electrocutor, assuming I draw my PA early enough.
I'm sure you can figure out what to explode yourself...

Maybe it's just been luck, but my performance with this deck concept has increased quite a bit, especially at the start or near the final blow. I hope other people have similar luck.
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Offline Getawu2

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49262#msg49262
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2010, 03:59:15 pm »
Sometimes, I really wished I could destroy one or two permanents, so I could have won that game instead of losing it. Another annoyance was when my electrocutor got stolen and used against my RoLs.
At other times, I get a semi-crappy draw, and i needed just one more turn to fractal or play hope... but got out rushed.

This gave me three excuses to change to entropy, and add a few supernovas.

I decided to remove one RoL, since I never had any trouble drawing them.
6 towers may seem too few, but with auto-mulligan, you usually end up drawing one or two in your first hand, accompanied by a RoL or two.
Usually, you'll be able to play hope/fractal sooner, thanks to supernovas.
Against Seism and Divine Glory, I protect my towers, and against others, my electrocutor, assuming I draw my PA early enough.
I'm sure you can figure out what to explode yourself...

Maybe it's just been luck, but my performance with this deck concept has increased quite a bit, especially at the start or near the final blow. I hope other people have similar luck.
Interesting idea, but why don't you use Nova instead of Supernova and stay with the Aether mark? With only two Explosions and one Protect Artifact that should work better.

edit: ok, Auto-Mulligan might be a reason - but I nevertheless think that would work better as there are rols which don't cost anything, too.

Offline Exarp

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49305#msg49305
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2010, 07:31:56 pm »

Interesting idea, but why don't you use Nova instead of Supernova and stay with the Aether mark? With only two Explosions and one Protect Artifact that should work better.

edit: ok, Auto-Mulligan might be a reason - but I nevertheless think that would work better as there are rols which don't cost anything, too.
Yes, I had auto-mulligan in the back of my head. RoL And Aether towers are the key to your first hand, they can really make or break the game. A nova would lower this chance, since it'll also be added to the starting hand as part of auto-mulligan, while four supernovas pretty much gives you one supernova consistently alongside the RoL and pillars.
That and the part where I wanted the (super)nova to speed up the start of the game a bit. I have debated between upped and unupped,, and even tried novas a few games. Let's just say that supernovas felt more natural and quicker, which might just have been a feeling.
The second reason was an instance of a game where I had one nova and two explosions in my hand, and chaos lord played  a second dischord immediately after I destroyed the first, and I wasn't able to recover the first quanta attack just yet.
Maybe it's just playing style preferance, and I tend to have extremely unlucky streaks from time to time. Murphy's Law is always on my case.
Anyway, yes, nova+mark of aether might work fine for most people. But even so.... you usually have 2 or 3 towers out when you play your first fractal, and  play it as quickly in either version, probably. Do you really need that one extra aether from your mark? In my experience, the only Real worry is getting your first fractal and hope on the table, but when you've managed that, you're golden most of the time. Again though, this might just be my own gut feeling.
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Offline yaladilae

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49336#msg49336
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2010, 08:29:07 pm »
and if u think butterfly effect, why not just mark of fire and explosions?
Totally agree!!!

Muellje

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49404#msg49404
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2010, 10:52:55 pm »
I fooled around with this deck today, and i must say, i had a VERY frustrating experience with it.
Stats can be viewed here (http://elementsstatistics.comxa.com/statistics.php).

First of all, I didnt get to play Ferox, Gemini or Hermes at all. Instead i had Morte 7 times, Scorpio 6 times and 3 times Rainbow, Fire Queen and Octane. I lost all the before mentioned matches.
I completed 50 games overall, and am SO DONE with this deck. I absolutely dont see, how u can have  60% wins with it.
And it's not because I don't get the AI or have never played FG before (my score's around 38k atm).
I had alot of bad draws. Sometimes the RoLs would all be in the last 15 cards, somtimes I'd start with all 3 hope on my starting hand, sometimes I didn't see one, until it was to late. It was really awful, this deck seems to be prone to bad draws...
I used the version with 2 Lobos, am I missing something here? I absolutely don't think this deck is an alternative to a rainbow deck :D

my 3 cents.

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49650#msg49650
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2010, 08:46:06 am »
I found out that a faster start does not outweigh the slightly slower mid/end game because of the loss in aether production, so I took out the supernovas and decided to take cremations instead, rather than unupped novas. This allows me to remove lobotomized or no longer needed RoLs on top of the needed quantas in earth and fire. I've only tested with three cremations, but may try to remove one in the future, though I think three are needed for consistency.
Code: [Select]
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Seravy

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Re: 1.21 ray of light/hope/fractal anti-FG https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3993.msg49688#msg49688
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2010, 12:45:59 pm »
I've tried this deck out, and it works great.
So far my experience :
-The deck works even with only the shards and rays upgraded. All the rest of the upgrades only give you one quantum difference each, and aren't that important. Upgrading the dragons first is a good idea, as you only have two and upgraded ones do more damage for the same amount of slots used.
-You don't deck out against miracle user gods if you play only 1-2 dragons first, and all of the rest when you can kill in one turn with them.
-Electrocutor in the early game is critical versus many gods. I'm currently using three. Unfortunately they are useless against the other gods, and may even backfire if they have a steal.
-I'm unsure about shards. Every shard you draw slows you down by a whole turn (you need to spend aether quanta to play them, and of course you draw them instead of other cards too). 0 Shards seem too risky, 2 works fine but not enough against poison gods. Next I'll try 6 but it would make the deck like 35+ cards, doesn't sound good.
-6 fractals seem to be a must. Any fewer and you might not draw enough. You need at least THREE of them, if the opponent kills many of your lights, or your hand doesn't have enough space for the first two, you even need a fourth or fifth before you can win.
-4 hopes seem to be necessary. With only 3, I didn't draw one in time way too often.
-I don't know if upgrading hopes are better or not. Probably better if I play more shards and worse otherwise. Without shards, being able to play it one turn earlier is often the key to victory.
-Not drawing enough towers and losing before I can play fractal happens with 7-8 towers. It seems to be much faster with 9, but with shards, maybe I'll have more time and can afford to only run 8.
-Drawing too many fractals, hopes and dragons makes it impossible to win because you don't have enough space in your hand. It's better to auto-quit on those starting hands.
-The results include games where my deck wasn't completely upgraded, ones with 5 fractals, ones with 0,2 or 4 shards, and of course games where I didn't know how to play the deck properly and lost to my own mistake. So actual results now are/will be probably better.

Now, let's see the gods and my experience with them :
Bad
Octane : Auto-Quit. Half his deck are gases that kill the rays.
Hermes : Auto-Quit. Hope doesn't stop fire lance, and firestorm kills all your rays. All of his creatures also have growth and get way too large to stop by hope in time.
Graviton : Auto-Quit. Too much creature removal and momentum. He also plays firestorm, and gravity shield stops the dragons. Firemasters are growing creatures, so they are trouble too. (10 turns =20 attack, 15 =30...Hope only works up to 23, but more like 15 because you need the space for dragons)
Gemini : Auto-Quit. So many phase shields, by the time you can attack, you deck out. To make it worse, the long amount of time wasted on waiting makes playing him not worth the time. His momentum and electrocutor are also trouble.
Ferox : Auto-Quit. Too many bonds+creatures. No way to outdamage it.
Morte : I didn't play against him too often, but plagues are a threat. You also need an early electrocutor against his viruses, and enough shards against his poison. Two losses, and I remember I won at least one before I started recording the results.
Edit : I've lost another five games against him, even with a deck having 6 shards. Poison is not that much of a problem, but every time he plays a plague (which he doesn't seem to play more than one of per turn), you either have a fractal and 8 aether quanta ready, or remain defenseless and lose in 1-2 turns. Moving this to the auto-skip section.


Risky
Obliterator : If he has pulverizer and momentum creatures, you are in trouble. Otherwise, it's possible to win. 2/5 = 40% wins so far.
Scorpio : Auto quit with any less than 4 shards in deck. Without an early electrocutor, it's a lost game. 4/12 = 33% wins so far, and I didn't play a few games with bad starting hands.
Chaos Lord : An early discord can really mess up your game. Probably easier with 6 shards, because you can afford the time until you get the aether quantum that way. Steal on the lobotomizer might be a problem if he is high on aether quantum and uses it every turn. Early mutations for large creatures can also pose a problem, but again, shards may help that. 8/16 = 50% wins so far.
Dark Matter : Early electrocutor against Otyugh and momentum creatures, or you lose.
1/4 =25% for me so far.

Good
Seism : Unless he beats you with an early creature rush, you are golden. It just takes a lot of time to get the quanta for fractals from your mark only. It usually takes no more than 9-10 rays to win, especially if you have shards. Shards might be risky to play here unfortunately, because if they use up your aether quantum, you lose 2 turns. Lobotomizers are also bad in hand as you can't afford to play them, and they take up a space from fractaling rays in your hand.
7/12 wins = 58%
Paradox : Easy. Especially if you have shards. You might lose with 0 shards due to him growing a creature with blessing to large, so be careful.
2/3 wins = 66%
Rainbow : Shards are useless, but they at least protect your pillars from being destroyed first, same of electrocutor. At least three fractals on rays and one on dragons, and surprise attack with them is needed. The main reason why I added the sixth fractal was this one.
9/14 wins = 64%
Fire Queen : If you can lobotomize her queens, you are golden. She can't make enough creatures without them to outheal your dragons. You only need to maintain 7+ rays, but take her creature removal into account. One of the games that made me want to have a third electrocutor.
5/7 wins = 71%, and all of them masterities.
Divine Glory : Another easy one, as you need 8 rays to survive forever at most. My losses come from decking out, which can be prevented by playing many dragons for a surprise attack.
5/7 wins = 71%
Miracle : Probably the easiest, has nothing that can cause harm except miracles. Suprise attack with dragons and you'll win.
3/3 wins = 100%
Destiny : Even easier, he has no shields so 23 rays are the way to go here. Eternity and reverse time puts back your dragons anyway so rays are better.
8/9 = 89%
Elidnis : You'll need an early electrocutor versus his lobotomizing creatures. His growing ones may also pose a threat if you don't draw a dragon in the first 20 cards, other than that, nothing difficult
2/2 = 100%.
Incarnate : Another one where an early elec is a must, against his infecting creatures. If you have it, he is easy, he can't have anthing wil more than 6 attack out and has no shields except bone walls that get taken down in a turn by the rays.
4/5 = 80%

Overall :
60/100 = 60%, including at least 10 games lost due to unupgraded cards, or not knowing how to play properly yet. Games not played due to auto-quitting are not included. Adding shards, upgrading hopes and the third electrocutor might even further increase win rate, not sure about it yet.

Edit : I'm testing 6 shards and I've already lost three games out of 19 I should have won due to not drawing hope in time. 6 shards are definitely way too many.

 

anything
blarg: