Will-o'-the-Wisp | Will-o'-the-Night

[HeartofDarkness]

I agree that the upped version should keep 0 atk, because 1) it fits the background of the card better (Will-o'-the-Wisp do not attack directly) 2) it makes it insensible to shields, putting more focus on its ability, and 3) an upgrade giving +2/+0 for free to a creature with dejà-vu is OP.

In compensation, upped version could get a doubling of its skill : whenever an opponent draws a card, he takes 2 damages. Once déjà-vued, that's 4 damage a turn. This is quite low considering the quanta-cost, but remember that this damage ignores all shields, and above all, it increases dramatically if your opponent tries and draw multiple cards a turn. Stall and draw through your deck with 6 Sundials + 6 Electrum Hourglasses ? Naah, no longer !

I agree. According to legend, the Will-o'-the-Wisps lure or mesmerize victims -- following the Wisps to wherever they lead, stumbling into ravines, falling off cliffs, getting stuck in swamps, etc. The victims do most of the damage to themselves.

I had the same "top of mind" difficulty with "entrance" -- I was thinking doors, not psychological trips. Mesmerize is good.

I don't have any other suggestion at this point. Maybe WotW gets buried any time it is targeted by a spell? -- a victim that's coming to his or her own senses is no longer mesmerized. More of a weakness to balance out the card in case people stick to the +2/+0 upped version.

Beautiful card.

-Heart

[Time_lord_victorius]

well, its soo weak, it would fall to any slightly hard CC. i guess slapping a condition that automatically destroys the card whenever it's targeted resembles some of MTG's illusion creature (even though its a spirit in MTG) :if creature is target of spell or ability, sacrifice that creature.

[HeartofDarkness]

well, its soo weak, it would fall to any slightly hard CC. i guess slapping a condition that automatically destroys the card whenever it's targeted resembles some of MTG's illusion creature (even though its a spirit in MTG) :if creature is target of spell or ability, sacrifice that creature.

I know what you're thinking. Yes, it is weak. Yes, it would fall for most CC relatively quickly. And yes, it reminds me of M:tG.
Because I've played it.

I've actually played Magic since Unlimited. And the last time I've seriously played was Academy (there was no set called this, it's the name of a card). Actually, Academy was so powerful they didn't "nerf" it -- they banned it*. From tournament play. And it's only a "land" -- or equivalent to Pillars or Towers in this game. At the time, it was a $20 card -- you needed four and a full time job to build a 60 card deck.

I tend to take a really conservative approach to cards -- don't take it personally. Based on my experience with collectible card games, it is much, much easier on the community to "buff" a card than it is to "nerf" it.

Why take a hard stance on Will-o'-the-Wisp? you may ask...

It's "Underworld Dreams" on a stick. In M:tG, it's restricted (meaning you can only have one). Here you can have six. With Fractal, you can have an army. And with Eclipse in play, they can start multi-tasking.

Sure, this game may not have a "Brain Geyser", "Stroke of Genius" or "Wheel of Fortune" (or worse, "Ancestral Recall" or "Time Twister")...at least not yet. At any rate, the card synergizes with a few cards already and it has a powerful ability that should not be overlooked.

-Heart

[Time_lord_victorius]

well hot damn. by academy, u mean TOLARIAN ACADEMY! dayuum, that card is OP like mad combo'd with memnarch and...hhrrrmmmm, sry. i concur, this thing can become a powerhouse very quickly...game changer even. W-o-t-W will be fun to play when it's going to be out, if ever. i can't believe my keyword mezmerise would be that popular though.
 i love it when a plan comes toghether--colonel hannibal smith. people like my ideas. that means i helped! yay (cheers for himself...in his dark corner...forever alone)

[mightyforest]

Yay an original idea (for Elements). I enjoy the whole concept of having a malicious spirit sort of thing haunting the elemental so whenever he or she 'thinks' (draws a card) suffers (headache)?

However, looking at another card in the metagame SoG makes me wonder whether you need to give this card more power. I mean, just having one SoG out essentially negates the effect of 5 of these bad boys... and given the deja vu ability only spits once, you need to use 3 consecutive draws and play 3 cards + pay 6  + 3  just to keep up with one SoG which costs 3  . That effectively gives your opponent an advantage both in terms of cards and quanta expended. Not to mention this is a creature and there are more CC then PC.

Judging from the above, this card isn't that useful against stall decks (which often utilize SoGs). But on the other hand, this card won't be particularly powerful against rush decks that aim to pound you to smithereens within 4~ 7 turns either since the opponent won't be drawing as many times... only time when this card realistically is useful is fractalled (and even then there are better alternative  dark creatures to fractal like vampire/quanta-drain-worm-thingy) or when you're playing against an AI with like 4 hourglasses (cuz in PvP I imagine people will just chose to not draw as fast or stop drawing  with HG altogether).

So imo this card might need a little more damaging potential? Just my two cents though, as you can see from my post count I'm new on the forums and all. If stuff I said here don't make sense please do point it out then ignore.

[Midnar]

Yay an original idea (for Elements). I enjoy the whole concept of having a malicious spirit sort of thing haunting the elemental so whenever he or she 'thinks' (draws a card) suffers (headache)?

However, looking at another card in the metagame SoG makes me wonder whether you need to give this card more power. I mean, just having one SoG out essentially negates the effect of 5 of these bad boys... and given the deja vu ability only spits once, you need to use 3 consecutive draws and play 3 cards + pay 6  + 3  just to keep up with one SoG which costs 3  . That effectively gives your opponent an advantage both in terms of cards and quanta expended. Not to mention this is a creature and there are more CC then PC.

Wrong. Stall decks often runs Electrum Hourglasses, making this much more effective than what you said. And  comparing the unupgraded version of this card with SoG (which is mandatory upgraded) isn't very fair. Just compare it with Déjà Vu. Pros: Will-o'-the-Wisp has 2hp, it's damage ignores shield and is increased if opponent draws multiple cards. Cons: Wil-o'-the-Wisp is duo.

[mightyforest]

@ Midnar:

Point 1:

Stall decks often runs Electrum Hourglasses, making this much more effective than what you said.

I did address the issue of HG:

[...]only time when this card realistically is useful is fractalled (and even then there are better alternative  dark creatures to fractal like vampire/quanta-drain-worm-thingy) or when you're playing against an AI with like 4 hourglasses (cuz in PvP I imagine people will just chose to not draw as fast or stop drawing  with HG altogether).

Point 2:

And  comparing the unupgraded version of this card with SoG (which is mandatory upgraded) isn't very fair.

The upped version of this card has the exact same effect (1 dmg/draw) but just with 2 atk. To me the attack isn't even a boost to the usefulness of this card seeing as it just makes Will-o-the-night vulnerable to CC shields, which you're going to need to face in pretty much every stall deck.

Sort of like the Chrysaora-Physalia situation except even worse because speed poison is actually a rush deck where those little bits of 2 damage can actually be the difference between a successful rush and getting shut out... So if this card is meant to be a counter for stall decks that utilizes HG as you argued, then the 2 bits of damage is actually a liability.

[Midnar]

The upped version of this card has the exact same effect (1 dmg/draw) but just with 2 atk. To me the attack isn't even a boost to the usefulness of this card seeing as it just makes Will-o-the-night vulnerable to CC shields, which you're going to need to face in pretty much every stall deck.

Sort of like the Chrysaora-Physalia situation except even worse because speed poison is actually a rush deck where those little bits of 2 damage can actually be the difference between a successful rush and getting shut out... So if this card is meant to be a counter for stall decks that utilizes HG as you argued, then the 2 bits of damage is actually a liability.

As said in earlier posts, I agree that the card is currently not worth being upgraded, and should rather have  atk and 2 dmg per card drawn. I said "unupgraded version is good" and you answered "No! Upgraded version is bad!"  .

I missed the bit where you say that Will-o'-the-Wisp is useless against players because they would just stop using their hourglass. Well then, 6 of these negate 6 (more expensive) hourglasses, while still doing 2dmg/turn each (once Déjà-Vued). That's not what I would call "useless". Will-o'-the-Wisp is a powerful counter to decks relying on a massive draw power, and a decent low-cost damage dealer against other decks. Definitely not an useless card.

[Time_lord_victorius]

well, i can see this card combo well with nightmare/GotP in a  / deck.
 i guess adding 2 atk to the upped doesn'nt do it justice enough. maybe allow it to... mitosis for 2 . i say this because the deja vu effect only occur once but with mitosis, darn this thing is going to become very powerful. not almighty, very dangerous nonetheless. of course, firestorm the field and no sweat. imagine a field FULL of these things. at your opponent's draw step, boom, darnload of damage his way.

or maybe have it deal 1 mor dmg when upped when opponent draws a card and give him 1 atk. seems descent as well and a single one almost undo SoG's effect

[Spiraler]

It's good, but isn't really just adding +1|+0 to its stats instead of damaging whenever your opponent draws a card. It only has an effect on projectonation and hourglass. And if mindgate is counted as drawing a card.

[mightyforest]

The upped version of this card has the exact same effect (1 dmg/draw) but just with 2 atk. To me the attack isn't even a boost to the usefulness of this card seeing as it just makes Will-o-the-night vulnerable to CC shields, which you're going to need to face in pretty much every stall deck.

Sort of like the Chrysaora-Physalia situation except even worse because speed poison is actually a rush deck where those little bits of 2 damage can actually be the difference between a successful rush and getting shut out... So if this card is meant to be a counter for stall decks that utilizes HG as you argued, then the 2 bits of damage is actually a liability.

As said in earlier posts, I agree that the card is currently not worth being upgraded, and should rather have  atk and 2 dmg per card drawn. I said "unupgraded version is good" and you answered "No! Upgraded version is bad!"  .

I talked about why upgraded version is strictly worse than unupgraded because you complained it's not fair for me to compare the unupgraded version of this card with SoG, which is mandatory upgraded.

And  comparing the unupgraded version of this card with SoG (which is mandatory upgraded) isn't very fair.

Since we agree this card unupgraded > upgraded, you should see why i didn't compare SoG to upgraded version in first place.

I missed the bit where you say that Will-o'-the-Wisp is useless against players because they would just stop using their hourglass. Well then, 6 of these negate 6 (more expensive) hourglasses, while still doing 2dmg/turn each (once Déjà-Vued). That's not what I would call "useless". Will-o'-the-Wisp is a powerful counter to decks relying on a massive draw power, and a decent low-cost damage dealer against other decks. Definitely not an useless card.

You know the funny thing is now I think it over, unless I was like 10 hp away from death hiding behind a phase shield, if I was playing a fat rainbow deck (with HG) I'd keep drawing even if multiple copies of this card is on the field. What is 1~4 damage per draw? I have AMs, SoGs and/or Sanctuaries in my deck. If I hit any one of the above i break even or even gain more health. If i draw a creature, surely by summoning it I'd deal more than 1~4 dmg to my opponent so he'll die first. And if I draw a shield = score. Only chance at 'losing' is drawing a pillar... so the odds actually favor me continuing to draw...

Bah sorry I shouldn't argue something situational like that but that's just how I picture it.

Anyway, I'd like to pay tribute again to original idea designer... thanks for coming up with this card~ would be great if you just upped its power just a bit more ^^, thanks.

[OldTrees]

Perhaps I am confused but is not +4 damage a turn a good upgrade? Is not  +16 damage per turn when adrenaline'd a good upgrade?

The unupped<<upgraded

The vulnerability to Fire Shield, Thorn Carapace and Skull Shield is not significant enough to counteract +4/+16 damage per turn.