Quantum Flash | Quantum Flash

[guy_fawkes]

so you are basically saying that this card gives no advantage to the user?
so making it free it' pretty fair...
i DO think instead that converting generic quanta to a specific quanta type is an advantage, and having advantages for free it's a no no.
when you gain some advantage you either have to:
lose a card
lose quanta
have a chance that the paid quanta results in nothing or something
suffer some damage or other kind of harm

Lines like this mean nothing, I could get 3 towers of my element on the first turn and have 3 quanta on turn 1. In fact its more likely than your example because I can have an open tower count whereas you can only have a limited 6 flashes of the type needed to cast the Particular card  you want. Now if you flood your deck with multiple flash types you could with 1 Quanta tower skip to nearly any card in your deck, but then again with a reduced deck of key cards, what are you going to deploy that is suddenly going to be able to give you the win?

difference is that in your scenario you use THREE cards to have 3 quanta of a single type,with quantum tower and quantum flash it's one card.

i am sorry i don't have any more arguments about this, because in my mind a card that gives you free advantages SHOULD NOT EXISTS or else we're gonna see decks flooded with them...

i'd like to hear what other people think about this...

[Kael Hate]

so you are basically saying that this card gives no advantage to the user?
so making it free it' pretty fair...
i DO think instead that converting generic quanta to a specific quanta type is an advantage, and having advantages for free it's a no no.
when you gain some advantage you either have to:
lose a card
lose quanta
have a chance that the paid quanta results in nothing or something
suffer some damage or other kind of harm

Lines like this mean nothing, I could get 3 towers of my element on the first turn and have 3 quanta on turn 1. In fact its more likely than your example because I can have an open tower count whereas you can only have a limited 6 flashes of the type needed to cast the Particular card  you want. Now if you flood your deck with multiple flash types you could with 1 Quanta tower skip to nearly any card in your deck, but then again with a reduced deck of key cards, what are you going to deploy that is suddenly going to be able to give you the win?

difference is that in your scenario you use THREE cards to have 3 quanta of a single type,with quantum tower and quantum flash it's one card.

i am sorry i don't have any more arguments about this, because in my mind a card that gives you free advantages SHOULD NOT EXISTS or else we're gonna see decks flooded with them...

i'd like to hear what other people think about this...

Mathematically, how much of an Advantage is the conversion of 3 quanta when the card required to do that conversion is limited to 6?
What deck can you give me where that converstion is mathematically effective enough to offset an environment?
After analysing plays and calculating inception of a card that increases your deck count without adding key effect it was determined that the value was less than 1 quanta this made me set the value of the card to 4 for the basic and 3 for the upgraded. If it is so easily overpowered and I'm incorrect in my calculation it should take you seconds to build a deck that breaks the environment with it. Show me this proof otherwise I don't care. I'm not going to retard a card because of your feelings. I've taken the effort to investigate and test my cards, you can't even offer me a deck that shows somewhat an effective edge considerable to speed models and control models that currently exist.

If you want to declare OP status, lets look at an example from Magic. Since you keep using the term Mana and you are supposedly profoundly aware of gaming science and are self assured that free replacement cards break environments, explain why Manamorphose (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=153968) failed to break the magic world? Yes its a good card, is it broken and OP, hardly.

[guy_fawkes]

manamorphose is an example that does not fit: it requires specific mana, and unlike Elements, in MtG mana HAVE to be used the same turn is gained, it's a lot more situational and it's impossible to say that every type of MtG deck (regardless the main "color") could go x4 of this card...
totally different story here...

anyway if you don't see a problem in a card that can let you draw you entire deck first turn, go on...
i am not having a fight for the sake of it, i just think that this card is broken in every possible way, the unupped version is ok, the upped version should have some other kind of drawback or else we will see x6 or x12 of it in every deck.

[midg3333]

I'd say that this card should have its cost increased by 1 upped and unupped, or something like that. Precognition is used in some rush decks with a splashed time mark, (although that's not so effective), and I would guess a majority of time rush decks would use precog. This is because it effectively reduces the amount of cards in your deck by 1, making it slightly faster. This card, in a mono, would do the same but better (minus the viewing of the opponent's hand). Pretty much, with this card as it is, the upped version can be used in any mono deck to speed it up slightly. It would also be really effective in a lava golem deck, as was mentioned before. 6x lava destroyer, 6x cremate, 6x RoL, 6x burning flash, possibly some earthen flashes, and some creature control or something like that. I'm sure that's not the best it can be, but it makes a golem rush more powerful that it already is. And for any mono deck, it can make it have 1 less card, as i previously stated. I'd say don't make an upped version that can pay for itself, either make it 5 unupped/4 upped or 4 and no draw unupped and 4 and draw upped. something like that.

[Kael Hate]

I'd say that this card should have its cost increased by 1 upped and unupped, or something like that. Precognition is used in some rush decks with a splashed time mark, (although that's not so effective), and I would guess a majority of time rush decks would use precog. This is because it effectively reduces the amount of cards in your deck by 1, making it slightly faster. This card, in a mono, would do the same but better (minus the viewing of the opponent's hand). Pretty much, with this card as it is, the upped version can be used in any mono deck to speed it up slightly. It would also be really effective in a lava golem deck, as was mentioned before. 6x lava destroyer, 6x cremate, 6x RoL, 6x burning flash, possibly some earthen flashes, and some creature control or something like that. I'm sure that's not the best it can be, but it makes a golem rush more powerful that it already is. And for any mono deck, it can make it have 1 less card, as i previously stated. I'd say don't make an upped version that can pay for itself, either make it 5 unupped/4 upped or 4 and no draw unupped and 4 and draw upped. something like that.

Golem rush wins because every card does considerable damage on the cheap or gives you mass free quanta within the first turn. No combination of using any flash was able to increase Golem rush potential. If you think it can, lay down the deck and I'll run it through simulation.

Show me these decks that break the world with flash.   

[twinsbuster]

I don't think every element should have this card,
as each element have different strategies, eg. fire/life to rush, water/time to stall...
quantum booster cards will give much more benefit to aggo element (let's see creamation).
If it's needed to make it as a series, I think at least they should have different unique effects, but not all "draw a card"

also, it's a bit OP.
as someone mentioned, quantum boost+draw cards can cause dragons spam so quickly

someone has already made this deck idea
6 Nova
6 (upped) Precognition
6 (upped) Timely flash
6 (upped) Silurian Dragons
6 (upped) Time Towers

It is possible to play half of your deck in the first few turns if you are lucky

[Avenger]

Kael - this is truly OP.

It simply converts generic (and unused) quanta from a richer source (quantum pillars, novas, immolates) to a focused need.
Without the loss of momentum (you can draw a new card).

This clearly is a free quantum gain in any decks with less than 54 cards using the abovementioned quantum generators.
The lava pump deck (immolation, lava golem, photon) will surely gain from this.
Just tack 3 earth flash and 3 fire flash on it.

[Kael Hate]

Blah Blah Blah OP. Evidence or mute point.

someone has already made this deck idea
6 Nova
6 (upped) Precognition
6 (upped) Timely flash
6 (upped) Silurian Dragons
6 (upped) Time Towers

It is possible to play half of your deck in the first few turns if you are lucky

I'll run this against Golem Rush. If Flash is broken your dragons should win nearly every game. When boting,  what rules do you apply to the playing of flash? Are you only going to use it after playing a nova, or anytime you have 3 to pay it?

Kael - this is truly OP.

It simply converts generic (and unused) quanta from a richer source (quantum pillars, novas, immolates) to a focused need.
Without the loss of momentum (you can draw a new card).

This clearly is a free quantum gain in any decks with less than 54 cards using the abovementioned quantum generators.

Wish people would actually analyse a card in whole rather than look at 1 point of it in a controlled environment and assumes it will tear down the world.

The lava pump deck (immolation, lava golem, photon) will surely gain from this.
Just tack 3 earth flash and 3 fire flash on it.

I'll add the 6 cards and we'll see if suddenly your flash version out rates the version without. I'm expecting it will fail becasue the extra quanta we have is being used for Other creatures so playing a flash would break that and convert quanta we never needed to change.




I'm away on a trip atm but will be at my main machine come the weekend. I'll run test cases and post results then.

[icetimer]

How about:
6xLight flash
6xGreen Flash
6xLeaf dragon
6xGreen Dragon
6xLight Tower
+Maybe a shield and weapon

Just a thought about how it might be Oped, an idea, the deck is completely untweaked and probs not yet oped but maybe it is, the point is the idea of light flash, Leaf dragon converting light to life quanta and then another light flash, i other words light flas give you 3 free quanta + an additional card.

[Kael Hate]

How about:
6xLight flash
6xGreen Flash
6xLeaf dragon
6xGreen Dragon
6xLight Tower
+Maybe a shield and weapon

Just a thought about how it might be Oped, an idea, the deck is completely untweaked and probs not yet oped but maybe it is, the point is the idea of light flash, Leaf dragon converting light to life quanta and then another light flash, i other words light flas give you 3 free quanta + an additional card.

Nice. Good thought to using it.
Leaf dragon is giving you the 2 to 1 cost, not the flash. So
This seems fast but its going to have the same weakness the other Light-Lifers do and that is lose the Rustler in the turn it has to wait to activate.
I'll run this against my Golem rush could be fun.

[RedWarrior0]

I see it as a very useful card, but not OP simply because the conversion from it is limited to 18. You can't get more than one dragon out of all of them for one element. It's a backup source, and it could be used in a pillarless deck, but it isn't nearly as abad as it could be.

[Amilir]

6x nova
6x graboid
6x earth flash
6s time flash
6x precog
All upped.  Explain that one away.