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Offline Chapuz

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353847#msg353847
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2011, 01:36:27 am »
maybe it can be more balanced if the sacrified creature dies one turn after u activated the skill.

like u sacrifice a brimstone and if u're opponent cant kill him during his turn u'll get the + 1
if he kill the target creature effect will abort
That does sound reasonable, because the opponent will have a chance to retaliate before it's too late. But the text in the card has to be darn small to fit this detail in. :P
There can be a text to make it that way, and it should be MUCH OP if it's not this way.

Imagine: 3 shields, 6 Cremation, 5 Minos Phoenix, 3 ruby dragons, some PC and CC as fire lances and explotion, a pair of PA and fire towers = best rush +  defense EVER.

This card is actually OP, but adding a single 1 - turn delay to the effect makes it a bit (or much) more balanced.

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Offline ZephyrPhantom

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353859#msg353859
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2011, 01:52:47 am »
With one problem - you keep having to spend :fire to kill the Phoenixes. That's at least 2 towers at minimum, and with dragons you'll need a bunch more if you want to get a Phoenix out the first turn. (Also, what's the point of having more Cremates than things to Cremate?) Not to mention it takes a while for the defense to build up, unlike RoL/Hope where you can just Fractal a bunch of RoL's and put them on the field.

I tried out this version of your deck, and didn't play the Tower Shields unless I had 7  :gravity .

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6rs 6rs 6rs 77i 77i 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7di 7di 7di 7do 7do 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 8pl


Tested it against a few AI3's, and I either:
1) Drew few/no shields and rushed the opponent with dragons and phoenixes.
2) Drew shields but got killed because I couldn't play them.

Even with Pendulums, I doubt this deck gets much better, and since the defense takes time to build it's most likely worse than a Sanc Firestall.

As for the card itself, it's like a shield with growth, but it needs two cards to work and has it's counters (Reverse Time, Lobo, Freeze on Phoenix Ash, Other CC), and it's a duo, with a 1 turn windup to start blocking any damage.

I'd say it's not as OP as you think it is.

Offline NepycrosTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353861#msg353861
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2011, 01:54:33 am »
maybe it can be more balanced if the sacrified creature dies one turn after u activated the skill.

like u sacrifice a brimstone and if u're opponent cant kill him during his turn u'll get the + 1
if he kill the target creature effect will abort
That does sound reasonable, because the opponent will have a chance to retaliate before it's too late. But the text in the card has to be darn small to fit this detail in. :P
There can be a text to make it that way, and it should be MUCH OP if it's not this way.

Imagine: 3 shields, 6 Cremation, 5 Minos Phoenix, 3 ruby dragons, some PC and CC as fire lances and explotion, a pair of PA and fire towers = best rush +  defense EVER.

This card is actually OP, but adding a single 1 - turn delay to the effect makes it a bit (or much) more balanced.
Let's scroll through all the possible ways to use this:

You could make this shield immaterial (requires duo)
You could make this shield powerful with a limit (requires duo)
You could make this shield powerful with a limit, AND immaterial (requires trio)
You could make this card powerful with no limit (requires duo)
You could make this card powerful with no limit, with no way to destroy the fuel (requires a quartet)
You could make this card powerful with no limit, with no way to destroy the fuel, AND immaterial (requires quintet)
You could do all that is listed immediately above, AND prevent the opponent from rushing, using Momentum, growing too powerful, or destroying you with spells (requires, what? 3 more elements? 4?)
You could do all that's listed above AGAIN, AND prevent deck-out, because this shield is good mostly for stalls (yet ANOTHER element)

So, you want me to code it to where it takes an entire turn to have this shield grow? I ask you, do you really think this shield will be useful AT ALL if that's how it works?

This shield requires:

A) 7 initial quanta
B) 2 quanta of another element EVERY USAGE
C) A creature, EVERY USAGE
D) Any add-on combos to make it harder to beat, which requires up to 6 different elements.

If you can pull off the ultimate combo with this card, I'll congratz you, because you'll be fighting the worst opponent ever.

RoL/Hope's only weakness is that it has either to deal with quanta issues, or Mass CC. It is weak to Momentum, and spells that deal damage over time.

My shield's weakness is the inability to sacrifice creatures, PC, Growth creatures, Momentum, quanta issues, buffing spells, spells that deal damage over time, etc.

RoL/Hope's max defense is 24, however, it can reach that height very quickly.

My shield has no max defence, but do you really expect a duel to last more than 24 turns, the opponent waiting for you to power up your shield more and more?
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Offline NepycrosTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353862#msg353862
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2011, 01:55:59 am »
With one problem - you keep having to spend :fire to kill the Phoenixes. That's at least 2 towers at minimum, and with dragons you'll need a bunch more if you want to get a Phoenix out the first turn. (Also, what's the point of having more Cremates than things to Cremate?) Not to mention it takes a while for the defense to build up, unlike RoL/Hope where you can just Fractal a bunch of RoL's and put them on the field.

I tried out this version of your deck, and didn't play the Tower Shields unless I had 7  :gravity .

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6rs 6rs 6rs 77i 77i 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7dg 7di 7di 7di 7do 7do 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7dp 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 7ds 8pl


Tested it against a few AI3's, and I either:
1) Drew few/no shields and rushed the opponent with dragons and phoenixes.
2) Drew shields but got killed because I couldn't play them.

Even with Pendulums, I doubt this deck gets much better, and since the defense takes time to build it's most likely worse than a Sanc Firestall.

As for the card itself, it's like a shield with growth, but it needs two cards to work and has it's counters (Reverse Time, Lobo, Freeze on Phoenix Ash, Other CC), and it's a duo, with a 1 turn windup to start blocking any damage.
Thank you Zblader. Ultimately, this shield is an early-game asset, but later on, it becomes a hindrance. If you want to outrace the attack of your opponent, you have to sacrifice your own creatures, but that's hard to do, because otherwise, you'll slowly run out of creatures to use. This shield turns your offense to defense, and you should know how that is not always the best thing.
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Offline Camoninja

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353865#msg353865
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2011, 01:59:19 am »
I don't see why this is OP. The only way to get this protected is in a trio or rainbow, and the high cost for starting at 0|1 DR means you need more stalling. And then it only increases at 1 per turn, half as fast as growth and ablaze. To me it seems it should have a cost reduction.

Offline ddevans96

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353867#msg353867
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2011, 02:00:43 am »
hm, I guess I never commented on this card.

At one point I believe you were going to turn this into a series - do you still plan to do that?
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Offline moomoose

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353868#msg353868
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2011, 02:01:51 am »
this is a good card, no reason to ruin it by making a series haha
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Offline NepycrosTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg353869#msg353869
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2011, 02:04:28 am »
On the bright side, I commend the thread necro! *^_^*

This card COULD be part of a series, but I never really got to it. Really, all I was looking for was a set of shields that had activation skills and costs. That concept is a pioneering force for EtG. It fits the concept of Gravity's absorption, and in the same way, compliments the growth and spread of Fire cards.
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Offline NepycrosTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg475144#msg475144
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2012, 07:54:32 pm »
Sorry for necro, but I am actually considering making a series for this card's basis (shield's with quanta activation cost). This is because I feel that the theme of this card would be better accepted if more people were made aware of the revolutionary effect of a shield that can activate special abilities, at the expense of using your own energy (like a life force, an inferno, etc.).

Thoughts?
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Offline NepycrosTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg479993#msg479993
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2012, 01:18:07 am »
Well, seems I'm gonna make a series now. Wish me luck, folks! (and suggestions are nice!)
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Offline Ikerpeta

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg482609#msg482609
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2012, 12:30:22 pm »
Might be so op with 0 cost creatures

Offline NepycrosTopic starter

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Re: Graviton Inferno | Graviton Inferno https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=13902.msg482721#msg482721
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2012, 05:20:53 pm »
Might be so op with 0 cost creatures

0 cost creature still doesn't change the fact that this shield requires + 2 :fire and + 1 card all to add one defense.
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