Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game

Elements the Game => Level 3 - Armory => Card Ideas and Art => Anvil Archive => Topic started by: Kaos. on February 23, 2011, 03:16:24 pm

Title: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on February 23, 2011, 03:16:24 pm
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/42/echo.png)
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1281/echoupgraded.png)
NAME:
Echo
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
4 :air
TYPE:
Spell
TEXT:
Add to your hand a copy of the last spell played during the game. Cannot copy Silence and Echo.
NAME:
Echo
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
3 :air
TYPE:
Spell
TEXT:
Add to your hand a copy of the last spell played during the game. Cannot copy Silence and Echo.
ART:
ZBlader, modified a bit by Kaos.
IDEA:
Kaos.
NOTES:
Maybe it should cost 5 :air/4 :air?

"Cannot copy Silence...": Having 12 Silence cards could be OP, and "silence" is not a sound and don't cause echoes. xD
"...and Echo": Too avoid complicated mechanics.^^

My first idea was to copy the last spell playing Echo, but it risked to be OP and it was difficoult to decide about AoEs. Adding a copy to your hand you can repeat any spell (Even your opponent's spells) but you have to pay it.^^
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Sintendo337 on February 23, 2011, 03:22:48 pm
hmm, i like this card ^^ but i dont know, maybe air mark instead? I think aether is more interdimentional for Echos.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Hyroen on February 23, 2011, 03:28:40 pm
Could definitely be :air Air as it has primary manipulation over sound.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on February 23, 2011, 03:30:38 pm
Uhm.. *thinking about it*
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on February 24, 2011, 12:38:39 pm
Any other comment? xD

If you like "Monkey (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21667.0.html)" you should like this too. ù_ù
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Hyroen on February 24, 2011, 03:26:17 pm
I know I definitely like it. I personally would, however, change the element to :air Air, seeing as this involves the manipulation of airwaves. Then again, I could be biased.

I understand how Silence pertains to :aether Aether as it deals with the absence of vibrations in the air, removal of a physical aspect of our reality, but once more sound is involved :air Air kicks in.

And yes, it is similar to Monkey.  ^_^
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on February 24, 2011, 03:35:42 pm
Ok, Echo's element must be definitely changed to :air.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: TimerClock14 on February 27, 2011, 05:28:30 pm
Regarding your table:
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on March 22, 2011, 07:54:52 pm
Regarding your table:
  • Please provide a card image with legal art in the first row of your table.
    • Ideas without card images will not be allowed into crucible.
  • Please change the ELEMENT section of the table from :air to Air.
    • The :air image represents quanta, not the element name.
    • By using :air in that section of the table, you are stating that this card is the element of "pay one air quantum".
    • Therefore, the element symbol and the element name are not interchangeable.
  • Please remove the text in parenthesis from the NAME section of the table.
All done.^^

Can anyone provide me an image for the card?^^ I'm not able to find something good enough. /
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on March 22, 2011, 08:27:13 pm
Would this work?
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd162422/Echo.png)
Also I think the cost of 4 | 3 is ok.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on March 22, 2011, 09:33:47 pm
Would this work?
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd162422/Echo.png)
Also I think the cost of 4 | 3 is ok.
Perfect, thanks.^^
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: crabaugh on March 23, 2011, 02:42:46 am
nice thought but .....
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Newbiecake on March 23, 2011, 03:39:38 am
From your wording, that includes your opponent's last played spell as well.

The cost is too high. Copying a spell isn't all that powerful, because you would have to most likely duo to even use the copied spell. I suggest the cost be lowed to 2  :air l 1  :air.

Other idea: You don't have to limit it to just spells you know. Having other things in there are nice too. If you do that though, a cost of 3  :air l 2  :air should be good.

Let's see...I Echo...SoDs!
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Ekki on March 23, 2011, 03:44:54 am
At first, when I saw "Cannot copy Silence" I thought, "Yeah, chanining Silences would be bad"... But then I realised, how in the name of Zanzarino is Silence supposed to have Echo if it is ...well, no sound. Then I read the notes :P

Whatever, fits both thematically and balance-wise. I really like it. Kaos, I'm just starting to believe you're a Card Creating genius. I really like every single card you create. You're my hero no, that's too much.

Whatever, 4 :air|3 :air fits and is balanced. I would say that even 3 :air|2 :air can be OK, but that 2 :air risk to get into a Fire Bolt stall with Air for splash and help them too much.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on March 23, 2011, 11:38:11 am
I'm thinking about decreasing the cost to 3|2... But echoing a SoG doesn't sound me good. xD
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on March 23, 2011, 11:40:46 am
At first, when I saw "Cannot copy Silence" I thought, "Yeah, chanining Silences would be bad"... But then I realised, how in the name of Zanzarino is Silence supposed to have Echo if it is ...well, no sound. Then I read the notes :P

Whatever, fits both thematically and balance-wise. I really like it. Kaos, I'm just starting to believe you're a Card Creating genius. I really like every single card you create. You're my hero no, that's too much.
Lol thanks. xD
Whatever, 4 :air|3 :air fits and is balanced. I would say that even 3 :air|2 :air can be OK, but that 2 :air risk to get into a Fire Bolt stall with Air for splash and help them too much.
Yeah the problem of chaining spells like bolts o AoE is the reason that convinced me to make it cost 4|3.^^
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kjaska on March 23, 2011, 11:56:23 am
Really like this one. Great idea and the cost is ok too.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Newbiecake on March 23, 2011, 08:40:04 pm
SoDs are a spell.  ::)

And hey, this is elements. Echoing a Silence isn't impossible, because you would have to shout or do something to Silence someone, thus making some sound. Same goes for SoDs. Did you not hear that Heal sound effect when it is played?
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Ekki on March 23, 2011, 08:46:32 pm
SoDs are a spell.  ::)

And hey, this is elements. Echoing a Silence isn't impossible, because you would have to shout or do something to Silence someone, thus making some sound. Same goes for SoDs. Did you not hear that Heal sound effect when it is played?
lol
So SoD isn't Echoed? Why? We have already the cap of 500 max hp, so it wouldn't be OP neither broken to let it being Echoable :P
And about Silence, the thing is about balance. Chaining too many Silences is bad, is like not letting you play for 12 turns :o (the same happens when someone does something that increase Dim Shield chains, both things are bad)
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: unknown89089 on April 26, 2011, 12:31:35 am
OMFG MIRACLE SPAM!
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: OldTrees on April 26, 2011, 12:48:41 am
OMFG MIRACLE SPAM!
I think 4 :air|3 :air is a sufficient cost for an extra Miracle in the hand.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: johannhowitzer on April 29, 2011, 09:37:30 pm
Didn't notice this card until Double Spell got the comments.  Definitely balanced, and I like the synergy with Thunderstorm (which could use a little help).  My only concern is Shockwaves, but still, Air is the element with renewable damage-based CC (Owl's Eye), so I doubt it's too strong.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Anarook on April 29, 2011, 10:38:45 pm
Got to find a way to make double spell acceptable next to this  :(
Gratz on snatching the idea first.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: johannhowitzer on April 29, 2011, 10:41:41 pm
It happens.  Just discovered someone made a card two months ago that's nearly identical (same name, in fact) to a card I've had in the Forge for almost a year.  It's just not possible for people to scan every single card idea before they make one of their own, and with the volume of this section of the forums nowadays, it's getting less and less practical to keep up with every idea in the Crucible and beyond.  No way you could have known by the topic title that "Echo" had a doublecast mechanic.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: forceattack on April 30, 2011, 07:18:20 pm
If you lower the cost then some one with a fire lance deck could easily use it and destroy the oppenent no prob so keep it at 4:3. :o
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: AeonSiege on May 02, 2011, 02:50:45 pm
I did this idea before and was called Resonance | Improved Resonance (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13177.0.html). This feels unjust and makes me feel like my card could have gotten elsewhere. Well, enough crying, here is a tip from my card. I think you should restrain the use of other spell because of shard of divinity or the increase of max HP or just the use of shard of divinity. Too much increase of max HP is OP with miracle.

Anyway, seems that yours has had a good acceptance and I'd be really happy to see this mechanic in the game (obviusly in entropy (I'm joking)). If it goes to elements then it means i had win too. ;D
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Kaos. on May 02, 2011, 03:18:38 pm
I did this idea before and was called Resonance | Improved Resonance (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13177.0.html). This feels unjust and makes me feel like my card could have gotten elsewhere. Well, enough crying, here is a tip from my card. I think you should restrain the use of other spell because of shard of divinity or the increase of max HP or just the use of shard of divinity. Too much increase of max HP is OP with miracle.

Anyway, seems that yours has had a good acceptance and I'd be really happy to see this mechanic in the game (obviusly in entropy (I'm joking)). If it goes to elements then it means i had win too. ;D
Sorry, I didn't notice your card since you linked it. xD

My idea is quite similar but Echo doesn't recast the last spell (that could be OP in my opinion), it only add to your hand a copy of it.^^
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: AeonSiege on May 02, 2011, 04:41:31 pm
Sorry, I didn't notice your card since you linked it. xD

My idea is quite similar but Echo doesn't recast the last spell (that could be OP in my opinion), it only add to your hand a copy of it.^^
The part of adding to the hand was my first idea and is part of the poll that is there, and the mechanic of resonance is exactly as if you had added to your hand and played it right after adding it to your hand (that includes paying the card spell cost). But anyway, you don't have to be sorry, your card is better worded than mine and I'm supporting your card, I want it to win. Great mind think alike. :D
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Chapuz on May 26, 2012, 03:33:03 pm
little necro.
1.- Is SoSa a spell?
2.- UG users would be happy with it.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: OldTrees on May 26, 2012, 09:40:16 pm
little necro.
1.- Is SoSa a spell?
2.- UG users would be happy with it.
1. Yes (but SoSa will be balanced in time)
2. No. UG is a permanent not a spell.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Pella on February 06, 2013, 12:54:33 am
It's a little thing.

"...Silence or Echo" makes more sense, grammatically.

Cool card!
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: skyironsword on February 06, 2013, 02:05:12 am
Why can't echo copy echo? :P
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 06, 2013, 02:08:12 am
So you can actually use multiple copies of Echo.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on February 06, 2013, 02:13:53 am
If you use Echo repeatedly, it is a waste of air quanta.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Drake_XIV on February 06, 2013, 02:23:43 am
If you use Echo repeatedly, it is a waste of air quanta.

That's why there's a clause.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: skyironsword on February 08, 2013, 02:13:47 am
You should still be allowed to copy echo. Even though it just wastes your air quanta.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 08, 2013, 02:22:24 am
You should still be allowed to copy echo. Even though it just wastes your air quanta.
Is it thematically possible to have an echo of an echo, or is 'echoception' actually one echo bouncing off several surfaces to sound like multiple echoes?

(There is no reason to restrict repeated use of Echo mechanically happen since each Echo 'overwrites' the previous one, avoiding 'complicated combos'.)
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: choongmyoung on February 12, 2013, 07:42:16 pm
You should still be allowed to copy echo. Even though it just wastes your air quanta.
Is it thematically possible to have an echo of an echo, or is 'echoception' actually one echo bouncing off several surfaces to sound like multiple echoes?

(There is no reason to restrict repeated use of Echo mechanically happen since each Echo 'overwrites' the previous one, avoiding 'complicated combos'.)

Why not possible? Echo can make another echo.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 12, 2013, 09:37:05 pm
You should still be allowed to copy echo. Even though it just wastes your air quanta.
Is it thematically possible to have an echo of an echo, or is 'echoception' actually one echo bouncing off several surfaces to sound like multiple echoes?

(There is no reason to restrict repeated use of Echo mechanically happen since each Echo 'overwrites' the previous one, avoiding 'complicated combos'.)

Why not possible? Echo can make another echo.
I never said it wasn't possible, I was just asking whether an echo of an echo ('echoception') is just the same sound bouncing off twice or the echo of the sound making a 'new' bounce.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: choongmyoung on February 13, 2013, 06:07:54 am
You should still be allowed to copy echo. Even though it just wastes your air quanta.
Is it thematically possible to have an echo of an echo, or is 'echoception' actually one echo bouncing off several surfaces to sound like multiple echoes?

(There is no reason to restrict repeated use of Echo mechanically happen since each Echo 'overwrites' the previous one, avoiding 'complicated combos'.)

Why not possible? Echo can make another echo.
I never said it wasn't possible, I was just asking whether an echo of an echo ('echoception') is just the same sound bouncing off twice or the echo of the sound making a 'new' bounce.

Aha, so you're talking about, for example, the Echo after an Echo after a Shockwave should give a Shockwave instead of Echo?
But I see that is not a big deal.
Let's say you played a Shockwave then an Echo(1). You'll get a Shockwave in your hand. Then you play another Echo(2). You'll get an Echo(1) again, but it's not a problem because you don't know Echo(1) copied what spell. But, you have Shockwave. After you use the second Shockwave, you can just use Echo(2) again and gain a new Shockwave instead of Echo(1). Yeah, this are slightly different, but it still makes sence imo.
Echo of an Echo is an Echo. If you don't know what caused an Echo, you can still call it just an Echo.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: skyironsword on February 15, 2013, 02:27:09 am
^ Simple version: Old Echo bounces off stuff you don't remember. New Echo bounces off Echo. So do you want that stuff you don't remember or some random spell in your hand?
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: TeamBftw on February 15, 2013, 03:41:24 pm
So, my 2 cents are that this should be an  :entropy card.  While it obviously keeps in line with the minor theme of  :entropy having access to all quanta types, it also makes sense from a real world perspective.  Sound is by no means limited to air, it travels through water and the earth just as well.  Additionally, sound really is entropy at work, things affecting one another causing and oscillation of density.  Perhaps and argument could be made that it could be a  :gravity card, due to the fact that some sort of density to be oscillated is required for the wave to happen.

 ;D
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: choongmyoung on February 15, 2013, 03:47:34 pm
So, my 2 cents are that this should be an  :entropy card.  While it obviously keeps in line with the minor theme of  :entropy having access to all quanta types, it also makes sense from a real world perspective.  Sound is by no means limited to air, it travels through water and the earth just as well.  Additionally, sound really is entropy at work, things affecting one another causing and oscillation of density.  Perhaps and argument could be made that it could be a  :gravity card, due to the fact that some sort of density to be oscillated is required for the wave to happen.

 ;D

Usually, if you say 'echo', it means the reflected sound in air like on the mountains. ;D
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: TeamBftw on February 15, 2013, 04:08:26 pm
So, my 2 cents are that this should be an  :entropy card.  While it obviously keeps in line with the minor theme of  :entropy having access to all quanta types, it also makes sense from a real world perspective.  Sound is by no means limited to air, it travels through water and the earth just as well.  Additionally, sound really is entropy at work, things affecting one another causing and oscillation of density.  Perhaps and argument could be made that it could be a  :gravity card, due to the fact that some sort of density to be oscillated is required for the wave to happen.

 ;D

Usually, if you say 'echo', it means the reflected sound in air like on the mountains. ;D

   . . .  thats only cause I'm not a dolphin, or a bat . . . but now that you mention it, I see more reason for it to be a  :gravity or  :earth card because the sound wave needs to hit something denser then where it originated in order to reflect, or echo,  . . . which brings me to echolocation and the realization that this could be a  :darkness card.  I still vote for  :entropy    :P  ;D
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Pella on February 15, 2013, 05:01:08 pm
Good arguments, TeamBftw.  The Air element has been established as having sway over sound and sound waves, though.  The arguments you present are more of the "if, if, if" type than the generic type.  Generically, people think of echoes as going through the air.  Therefore, an Echo card belongs in Air.

I could see an argument for a Sonar card or Dolphin card being in Water.  A Bat card definitely should go in Darkness, although an Echolocation ability arguably would revert to Air.  I can't think of any useful game purpose for Echolocation, though, so that's kind of a moot point.
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: skyironsword on February 23, 2013, 10:38:16 pm
^ Echolocation: Passive. Dodge all targeted effects by the opponent
Title: Re: Echo | Echo
Post by: Arum on August 09, 2013, 11:06:37 pm
^

Then make a Bat card already
blarg: