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Offline Seiya

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273268#msg273268
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2011, 03:46:28 pm »
I think you should give Phase Dragon the Immortality ability that Anubis has.  Why?  We might get a card that removes immaterial, and it fits  :aether well.

Offline Ekki

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273270#msg273270
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2011, 03:53:34 pm »
I think you should give Phase Dragon the Immortality ability that Anubis has.  Why?  We might get a card that removes immaterial, and it fits  :aether well.
I think Phase Dragon deserves the ability because of Mutations... Having Anubis' Immortal can be a good idea, but just making it immaterial sounds OK to me, that way you could have an immortal mutant dragon with a random mutant ability :D

Offline GG

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273308#msg273308
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2011, 05:31:32 pm »
I think you should give Phase Dragon the Immortality ability that Anubis has.  Why?  We might get a card that removes immaterial, and it fits  :aether well.
The defition of immaterial is that it is indestructible. What's the point of having it if there's a card that would be able to directly destroy immortality?



Anyways, I'm sure these points are already stated in previous posts, but in case they weren't...

1. Mutation sometimes gives mortal :aether dragon. What would happen if I target that dragon with this ability? Define the dragon power for :aether dragon for a special case like this.

2. What about leaf dragon? :P

3. You should change the name of :gravity dragon's power, since it has the same name as Armagio's Gravity Pull, except the dragon's ability can target any creature while Armagio automatically targets self.

4. The system doesn't save destroyed creatures, and therefore :time dragon ability is impossible.
Ex-Master of :gravity, still a fervid supporter! GO GRAVY!

Offline Seiya

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273595#msg273595
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2011, 01:11:31 am »
I didn't accept the idea of the immortality card, I merely stated that it might happen and that Phase Dragon needs an ability.  I proposed an idea for it.

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273598#msg273598
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2011, 01:20:05 am »
Quote
2. What about leaf dragon? :P
I had the same argument on Twin-Headed Wyrm's thread.



^Isn't that a Dragon?
no  ;)
This discussion was already had over in Dragon Power (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11526.msg165455#msg165455). I believe it was decided that Leaf Dragon, being an upgraded version of Rustler, is not a "true" dragon. One dragon per color, it seems. Of course a quick name change to "wyrm" or something similar could easily be effected.

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273820#msg273820
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2011, 11:50:27 am »
As a big fan of dragons, I totally approve the idea. However, this needs a little bit of balancing.

I'll take Butterfly Effect, which is quite similar, as a reference. Like Dragon Power, it may only be used on certain creatures. It grants Destroy with a skill cost of 3 :entropy. Destroy does the same as the spell Deflagration | Explosion, which costs 2|1 :fire.

Likewise, some of the skills granted by Dragon Power have an activation cost of 3 and the same effect as a spell which costs 2|1 :rainbow : Shockwave, Gravity Pull, Fire Lance, Ice Lance and Siphon Life. Deadly Infection is harder to assess because there's no spell with the same effect, but it looks just right. Chaos Gene is a mix of those ones, making it just as good.

On the other hand, Amend is... Well, I don't like the idea, but that's not the main problem. Amend is estimated at 4|3 :time by egaborg, and I would rather put 5|4. Getting it on a stick for 4 quantas a turn is clearly OP. And Time gets this wonderful Rewind spell, which costs 2|1 :time, just what you need, and could also be added to the possibilities of Chaos Gene. I'd love using an empowered Silurian Dragon to avoid decking out while keeping my weapon slot free for something else.

Biogenesis is clearly OP as it is ; specify that it may not generate Life Nymphs or Dragons, and it would be balanced imo. And it fits Life very well.

Strengthen and Blessing are too alike. Blessing is nice - albeit probably slightly OP - but the attack bonus of Strengthen does not fit Earth. Heavy Armor (+0/+6) would be more suitable, but somewhat UP. I think that Earthquake, with a cost of 3 :earth, would be OK. By the time you have a dragon out, an earthquake may be much less of a nuisance for your ennemy, but it still compares honorably to Poseidon, because it is mono-element and does not fill your weapon slot.

Summary of suggested changes:
ElementCostEffect NameEffect Description
AIR3 :airShockwaveThe same as the spell
DARK3 :darknessSiphon LifeThe same as the spell. The dragon heals its own HP
DEATH3 :deathDeadly InfectionInflict 3 damage per turn to a target creature
EARTH3 :earthEarthquakeThe same as the spell
FIRE3 :fireFire LanceThe same as the spell
GRAVITY3 :gravityGravity ForceThe same as the spell
LIFE4 :lifeBiogenesisGenerate random Life creature, except Nymph and Dragon
LIGHT4 :lightBlessingThe same as the spell
TIME3 :timeRewindThe same as the spell
WATER3 :waterIce LanceThe same as the spell
ENTROPY3 :entropyChaos GeneA random dragon power effect is inflicted on the target (Note: Only Air, Dark, Death, Fire, Gravity, Water and Time dragon effects)
About the Leaf Dragon joke: since the natural ability of a leaf dragon is Photosynthesis, casting dragon power on it would revert it's skill to Photosynthesis if it had been altered in any way: lobotomize, mutation, liquid shadow, overdrive, mitosis.

Finally, I would like to talk about the casting cost. Butterfly Effect costs 5|4 :entropy. Since Quantum Towers produce 3 :rainbow, cards in "Others" should arguably cost thrice as much for a similar effect. But this is not true because it should also be possible to play this card in a mono deck without spending a dragon-worth of quanta on it. Yet 3|2 is really cheap, something around 6|4 would be more adequate imo.

Well, that's it. Phew  ^-^

Offline Ekki

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273843#msg273843
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2011, 02:19:01 pm »
As a big fan of dragons, I totally approve the idea. However, this needs a little bit of balancing.

I'll take Butterfly Effect, which is quite similar, as a reference. Like Dragon Power, it may only be used on certain creatures. It grants Destroy with a skill cost of 3 :entropy. Destroy does the same as the spell Deflagration | Explosion, which costs 2|1 :fire. Good reasoning, but some spells are too powerful on a stick

Likewise, some of the skills granted by Dragon Power have an activation cost of 3 and the same effect as a spell which costs 2|1 :underworld: Shockwave, Gravity Pull, Fire Lance, Ice Lance and Siphon Life. Deadly Infection is harder to assess because there's no spell with the same effect, but it looks just right. Chaos Gene is a mix of those ones, making it just as good.

On the other hand, Amend is... Well, I don't like the idea, but that's not the main problem. Amend is estimated at 4|3 :time by egaborg, and I would rather put 5|4. Getting it on a stick for 4 quantas a turn is clearly OP. And Time gets this wonderful Rewind spell, which costs 2|1 :time, just what you need, and could also be added to the possibilities of Chaos Gene. I'd love using an empowered Silurian Dragon to avoid decking out while keeping my weapon slot free for something else.

Biogenesis is clearly OP as it is ; specify that it may not generate Life Nymphs or Dragons, and it would be balanced imo. And it fits Life very well. most of ^^this sounds reasonable, but IDK

Strengthen and Blessing are too alike. Blessing is nice - albeit probably slightly OP - but the attack bonus of Strengthen does not fit Earth. Earth is one of the elements of growth Heavy Armor (+0/+6) would be more suitable, but somewhat UP. I think that Earthquake, with a cost of 3 :earth, would be OK. By the time you have a dragon out, an earthquake may be much less of a nuisance for your enemy true, but it still compares honorably to Poseidon, because it is mono-element and does not fill your weapon slot.

Summary of suggested changes:
ElementCostEffect NameEffect Description
AIR3 :airShockwaveThe same as the spell
DARK3 :darknessSiphon LifeThe same as the spell. The dragon heals its own HP
DEATH3 :deathDeadly InfectionInflict 3 damage per turn to a target creature
EARTH3 :earthEarthquakeThe same as the spell
FIRE3 :fireFire LanceThe same as the spell
GRAVITY3 :gravityGravity ForceThe same as the spell
LIFE4 :lifeBiogenesisGenerate random Life creature, except Nymph and Dragon
LIGHT4 :lightBlessingThe same as the spell
TIME3 :timeRewindThe same as the spell
WATER3 :waterIce LanceThe same as the spell
ENTROPY3 :entropyChaos GeneA random dragon power effect is inflicted on the target (Note: Only Air, Dark, Death, Fire, Gravity, Water and Time dragon effects)
About the Leaf Dragon joke: since the natural ability of a leaf dragon is Photosynthesis, casting dragon power on it would revert it's skill to Photosynthesis if it had been altered in any way: lobotomize, mutation, liquid shadow, overdrive, mitosis. meh, I guess this is up to what Zanz thinks

Finally, I would like to talk about the casting cost. Butterfly Effect costs 5|4 :entropy. Since Quantum Towers produce 3 :rainbow, cards in "Others" should arguably cost thrice as much for a similar effect. But this is not true it is because it should also be possible to play this card in a mono deck without spending a dragon-worth of quanta on it. Yet 3|2 is really cheap, something around 6|4 would be more adequate imo. the problem is that since this works on dragons, it's harder to get the combo, not like BE, that targets 2 or less atk creatures

Well, that's it. Phew  ^-^

Midnar

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273869#msg273869
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2011, 03:04:56 pm »
Spells that are too powerful on a stick: Steal (only possible with a mutation) and Antimatter (only on Purple Nymph). All the skills presented here, like shockwave and deadly infection, are really comparable to destroy, they are simply CC instead of PC.

I hadn't growth on my mind. However, the ability to boost *any* creature is really different from growth, and much more Blessing-like. And simply giving the basalt dragon a growth ability would make it the least interesting target for Dragon Power.

It's true that cards in Others should be three times more expensive? Well, Improved Heal is 2 :life, so SoD should be 6 :rainbow? This would be consistent only in the case of a mono-Others deck. Because non-rainbow decks do not (usually) have Quantum Towers ; and rainbow decks need quanta of all colours, so using 3 random quanta is really like using 3 quanta (I would gladly pay 3 of those Light quanta I don't use rather than three random quanta).

Offline Ekki

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg273881#msg273881
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2011, 03:19:15 pm »
It's true that cards in Others should be three times more expensive? Well, Improved Heal is 2 :life, so SoD should be 6 :rainbow? This would be consistent only in the case of a mono-Others deck. Because non-rainbow decks do not (usually) have Quantum Towers ; and rainbow decks need quanta of all colours, so using 3 random quanta is really like using 3 quanta (I would gladly pay 3 of those Light quanta I don't use rather than three random quanta).
I believe yes. The shards are too powerful right now, but I guess their reason to be is being used.

I hadn't growth on my mind. However, the ability to boost *any* creature is really different from growth, and much more Blessing-like. And simply giving the basalt dragon a growth ability would make it the least interesting target for Dragon Power.
Yeah, it's different, but for thematic sakes, I guess the ability "makes" other creature grow.

Spells that are too powerful on a stick: Steal (only possible with a mutation) and Antimatter (only on Purple Nymph). All the skills presented here, like shockwave and deadly infection, are really comparable to destroy, they are simply CC instead of PC.
CC is different from PC. There are generally less permanents than creatures, and they are generally less essential. Even if you stall you'll notice this.
Anyways, my problem was with Blessing and maybe deadly infection. The fact that you're using this in dragons changes the whole thing, but yet, giving +3|+3/making 3 dmg per turn to a creature is a bit broken. It will be too expensive, or OP (Fractal is having this problem right now). I believe there must be some better idea out there.

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg274154#msg274154
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2011, 10:01:36 pm »
. . . And yet noone wants ORIGINAL abilities? TT_TT

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Offline Ekki

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg274178#msg274178
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2011, 10:36:44 pm »
Creativity is dead.
I believe there must be some better idea out there.
I'll prove you're wrong!  ;)

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Re: Dragon Power | Dragon Power https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=11526.msg274194#msg274194
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2011, 10:53:41 pm »
I think this was posted maybe (sorry if it was ) but won't this make mono other

 

anything
blarg: