Round 6 - Main Topic

[DrunkDestroyer]

Decks this round

DrunkD

by DrunkDestroyer

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Legit

by DrunkDestroyer

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plastiqe

by DrunkDestroyer

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OK Team, Round 6 is up.

plastiqe vs  EvaRia
Liu. Legit vs  PoLdeR
Gen. DrunkD vs  ffun

And the event cards basically give us the option of - adding an extra Shield or Short Sword to our decks (up to 6) and then getting to upgrade 2 non shield/sword cards for every one we put in. (We don't get to keep them, or salvage/discard them though)

However, we can only choose Shield or Swort Sword - we cannot combine the two in one deck or multiple decks.

I say we ignore it until our decks are built, I don't have any special ideas really.








I know its a little early and that match ups/event card haven't been posted yet, but I figured this couldn't hurt. 2 -3 last round, some decisions/luck went into that, and I'd say that it might not be what we deserved, but its what we got. We have a strong team though, and good decks back there - we can pull through.

Most importantly, we have until the end of this duelling phase to decide who gets to play next round (Perve is out, Legit has the funds and will temporarily take his place as Liutenant)


Our Salvage/Discard is as follows

-30 cards from the deck against 
+9 cards from  's deck
-27 cards from the deck against 
-27 cards from the deck against 
nothing from matchup against 

that adds up to - 75 cards, putting us at 117. So, only 3 players can duel this round. It's a little dissappointing, but other teams have been at this point for a while, and every team has to get there some time. As the player order stands now, plastiqe is the 3rd member (he sat out last round and was active the most recently in my quick way of settling on somebody) - like always, this can be changed.

Keep 3 cards

by DrunkDestroyer

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Take 9 cards

by DrunkDestroyer

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Keep 2 cards

by DrunkDestroyer

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Keep 3 cards

by DrunkDestroyer

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I've also made a Team Time topic. I plan on making Entropy and Earth too, because they are the most difficult elements to accurately capture in a post, although they might not be that useful if we don't face them next round :/ , maybe I should have waited.

[Legit]

The deck options we have left:

Entropy duo

by Legit

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Darkness duo

by Legit

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Life cards
3 x Adrenaline
2 x Forest Scorp
3 x Mitosis
3 x Druidic Staff

Light cards
4 x Crusader
3 x Sanctuary
2 x Miracle

2 x Charger
5 x Black Hole
2 x Deflag
1 x Butterfly Effect

As well as various air cards and salvages/cards we don't discard.

Wait to make decks and then salvage accordingly after round 6 has been posted, but our basic options are above.

Also, 117 is actually a good number, because if we had 3 more cards we would be at 120, forced to use 4 decks with every single card left in our vault. A very inconvenient and dangerous situation to be in. This way we have some cards to fall back on in case we lose 2 duels, and we have more options for 3 decks.

[Bloom]

I'm available this week if plastiqe can't do it. I really think we should work hard this round to figure out almost exactly what the other teams will play against us.

[DrunkDestroyer]

Matchups have been posted.

In terms of cards, we have up until we hit 132 cards before we field 4 players. Stragetically, it might be better to substitute games later to avoid fielding a 4th deck if we know we can't.
Bloom, you've been active in matches and on this section, if we need a sub, we have one, which is awesome. I'm gonna keep swapping players around while I can, based on activity and matches played rather than random numbers and matches played. (All depends on how many matches we win).


IMO, the decks we can safely build are listed below (badly built without upgrades/imagination - so that we are forced to rebuild them )

by DrunkDestroyer

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by DrunkDestroyer

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by DrunkDestroyer

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by DrunkDestroyer

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by DrunkDestroyer

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by DrunkDestroyer

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by DrunkDestroyer

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Some of these are ridiculous/have outrageous quanta balances/far too many cards - but those are all easily fixable, we just have to decide what to play against which teams, and then how to best make it.

I'll be making Team topics on both  and  soon -  so we don't get caught out by anything. Although in theory, this round can't be our last (unless we screw the vault), a very poor showing here doesn't leave us in a good place, so we've gotta give it the best we can.

[Legit]

First off, thanks for your hard work DD. The individual team threads help a lot.

Regarding the event card:
I don't see this card being useful to any team, but we could choose one of the options and add 1 shield/sword to any of our decks without a shield/weapon and get the 2 extra upgrades. Otherwise I don't think we should worry about the event card and make decks normally.

This round we are not facing any Generals or Lieutenants, so that's good.

if discard all
6 Dragons
0 Dragonfly
6 Wyrm
3 Fog
0 Owl's Eye
1 Wings
3 Shockwave
1 Sky Blitz
1 Flying Weapon

I think we should definitely use our light duo somewhere.

vs Time
Due to the funky nature of this deck we probably won't use it, but I had to make it anyways. However it would surprise them and they wouldn't try to counter it. (Upgrade momentums) Actually, since they know we have PC (and we beat them with it last time) this may not be the best place to use this deck. Scratch this idea, it would fail against all teams.

by Legit

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vs Entropy
Last round they were prepared for our light duo. I'm thinking they take the same deck, the darkness duo (w/ steals), or a rainbow rush. They will definitely be using discord any way.

vs Aether
I think it's likely they will use the PU Graboid rainbow. They know we have PC and it (possibly) beats all of our decks except the entropy duo.

I'm prepared to test tomorrow or later.

[DrunkDestroyer]

  is a problem, because they have a lot of decks that beat most of ours.

Anything that fractals creatures will probably be too much for antimatters to handle, especially those damn Minor Phoenixes. (Devtal might be an exception, antimatter vampires, then destroy nightfall works great, but then again, by that point in time, playing cards is quite an achievement). Obviously we want Dragons in case they take Lightnings, but I doubt they would make that mistake. They have been shown to not use RTs, but we should definitely check that they didn't salvage 6 this round.

If we were sure about the PU Grabbow, I'd suggest take the Reverse Times (and maybe eternities, although that would be very strange quanta wise).


I'm pretty sure that in any case, they will try to rush us, unless they bust out a 40 card deckout (has happened once before, but I think that was due to a weak vault. Might work though).

This is a difficult match up, and I'm sure that if we lose we'll be kicking ourselves for not taking a different deck, but IMO one of the ones that could do quite well would be the duo. (Deck above lacks fogs, which we will want).

Other ones which could work are probably a RT splash and the entropy deck. Testing is smart, I'll try to do some, but everything is appreciated.

  , argh. Sometimes I think that MatrimKK is just putting all the elements and decks in a randomiser and hoping to catch everyone off guard. (I mean, a deck outer against , pandebonium against ?)

Again (this is going to be a common theme) they have ridiculous numbers of decks - and now that we have "lost" our blue nymph/quint/immo we could be facing that deckout stall. Or they could take Disc/BH. Or just a lot of PC. With they way they've been going, they could even take dim shields against us. (or wings!)


Now, I don't know whether this is intelligent or not - but 3 of their 4 winning decks used discord. With some upgrades (maybe a sword/shield here), we could put in one or two novas, and some off element cards, expecting to be scrambled. I would expect Rewind (good against everything, since even if they take the deckout stall, we can delay the end by one whole turn!), and maybe a vamp dagger/momentum/deflag. Maybe an arsenic/scorpion if we need poison, but that takes away salvages/from other decks.

^A little ridiculous. I dunno tbh. The Sanctuary/Miracle deck might beat out the Discord BH, but I don't know about the other decks, and the deckout stall.

 

I've been expecting the EQ/Graboid deck for rounds now. Pillar/pend might help if we are gonna mono, but they have a habit of having Dimshields/Eternities/ arse+fog which can cause problems. Outhtinking isn't something I'm good at - I almost want to play the same deck again.

Just my first thought here, and I haven't been picking the best decks so far, but maybe A Wyrm heavy fire splash with deflags (and the blue nymph down the bottom, for when they have used a lot of rewinds/hand is empty). They've played honorably, and can save 3 cards from their fire deck, which means most likely no phoenix/deflag deck, but they have taken multiple copies of most decks, and probably salvaged for their decks whenever possible.


I dunno what exactly to do, but eventually I will open trainer and post numbers here. Everyone else doing that would be appreciated too

[Bloom]

I feel pretty confident that will continue to use Discord against us, knowing we have a small vault and our deck options are very limited. Therefore, I believe that this is the only viable deck option against

by Bloom

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I think I balanced the quanta decently well :S but changes can be made to the cards if anyone thinks we should.


If goes EQ, we gotta hope that the darkness in this deck will be able to handle them. Maybe if RNG gives us a devourer in each starting hand (or two) we could control early enough to get a vampire sky dragon going.

by Bloom

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Deck fixed!

[DrunkDestroyer]

Sanctuaries work. but last game they had 5 deflags, which beat 3 sanctuaries almost every time :/
I think they know we have sanctuaries, and might take PC again with discord, I just don't know whether its worth our whole deck trying to beat that one card.


This - is an option. Its weird, and if they don't run discord, I feel stupid. But if they do, then at least we have something to show for it, two novas in case they just stop using discords. (Should beat their deck-out stall, my maths is terrible, but 4 pendulums + mark = 6  every 2 turns? as long as there are no unexpected issues, which would be unexpected and hard to prepare for.

(Shield is bad, and I dunno if we need the extra 2 upgrades. Momentum should be upped too)

by DrunkDestroyer

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I say we test between this and Bloom's deck above - their main speedbows, maybe their fractal dragons which they can take out again - and hope they didn't salvage a pandebonium somewhere. (we can't really beat that one unless we prapare for it specifically - then we run the risk of losing vs a ghost deck)



I like that deck against time (we can even change the upgrades between pillars/pends to make EQ even less useful), but we did use it last round :/ , so now that I think about it, they may not use EQs, and they might try counter it. Hell, I dunno though. (Although if possible, always upgrade the Wyrms over shockwaves, +2 attack is leads to +4 every dive, there is no competition there)

[Legit]

I like the idea of DD's deck above vs Entropy. As Bloom said Entropy is extremely likely to use Discord against us, but since they know we have the sanc deck (the only counter we have) they will most likely take a deck with PC. The deck above is definitely not optimal, but it's the best we have against Entropy.

Finished code:

by Legit

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Test against these decks:

vs Stall: Auto-win. If this actually occurred in the real match I would cry with joy.

vs Darkness duo: I found this was a pretty 50-50 matchup, (I lost 3-2) most games came down to the last turn. This matchup is mostly reliant on RNG and skill. I picked up a few little tricks along the way but overall this will probably end up 3-2 with either side taking the win.

by Legit

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vs Scrambled Shriekers: I won this one 3-1, but with the AI taking un-human-like actions with Graboids and the burrow abilities, in real life it would be closer. Earthquake hurts. RT hurts them. Fog hurts, luckily I had the Explosion ready when I needed it. I never saw BH, but it would be devastating.

by Legit

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CONCLUSIONS: This deck is HIGHLY luck dependent but it has the stuff to win considering good enough RNG. The Novas help, if you can draw them. Discord is a pain as always, but with this deck you can potentially win after a second turn discord. Also, it's funny to play an Explosion or Unstoppable because of Discord giving you quanta. The RT help in a variety of situations. Overall I think this deck is the best shot we have, (someone should probably test with the sanc deck to compare) we have to get lucky but a win is within reach.
vs Aether.

As far as I can tell, they don't have many phase dragons left. And as a response to worries about fractal, their decks are significantly weaker with only 3 upgrades. Fractix with 3 minor phoenixes is far from ideal, and their Mummy deck without 6 upgrades hurts as well (BW or Mummys upgrade?) If there are no alternatives, I think the entropy duo could fit in here. Nice CC for their creatures, add in our last BE + dragonfly for dims, and a lucky discord could leave us with a win.

Test against: (+ Anything else you think they might use)

by Legit

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by Legit

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vs Time.

Same deck, perhaps? I'd like to hear what you guys think about this one. I'll test the other two now.

[DrunkDestroyer]

Just tested the one vs  against this deck

by DrunkDestroyer

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where it lost, 3 - 2, although I'm pretty sure that one win would be ours if the AI would hold rewinds for shriekers and string spirits rather than lycans which the AI can replay every turn. (depends on the hands draws and ect I guess, but yeah). Also, it plays novas without needing to, just baiting the BHs. (Their deck is very luck dependant too - 3 copies of cards won't always show up - and chaos seeds can be very meh.

The sanctuary deck would beat it with more ease I think, but auto win vs stalls without PC (has generally been their strategy so far - at least with their stalls that won) is awesome, and it stands a better chance against decks with PC - I think that this is the deck to run.

(If we win, make sure to thank team Time and 10 men)


OK, 1 damselfly. The problem is, we have just 2 OEs. 3 wont be enough to fly them, but might be enough for Crusader duoing.

  is also difficult. I think the only other deck they might take (out of the ones we see) might be the bonewall/mummy/fractal/lightning. And I guess between antimatters, maxwells, pandemoniums and shockwaves we might be able to pull through. BE is an allright lobo, and we can antimatter maxwells to use BE on, despite the fact that that is completely ridiculous.



Unfortunately, due to vault issues, we only have 6 Wyrms, and 8 Dragons.
I've gone through and done a basic S/D to give us an idea (salvaging all cards needed for the rainbow/rt deck, 2 Novas, Blue Nymph, 1 Dragonfly and 2 OEs), and we are low on most things, such as Deflags (we have just two).
I dunno if its worth keeping the blue nymph again. Its a crowd pleaser, and we can put it with a mono air fire mark 2 deflags - but we might be better off even with a damsel (that way we have 2)

The deck I currently have vs  is just this-

by DrunkDestroyer

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32 cards might be too much, so I trimmed one antimatter, figuring it might be a dead card in some situations. Almost all the creatures used in their winning decks can be shockwaved to death

With the AI playing our deck, it beat aethers grabbow 3 - 2 , and as we all know after I've said it to death, AI sucks. Thats good news, the bad thing is that Higs most likely knows that, I'm pretty sure that Team Aether and co test a shitload more than we do ;P . The only thing in this deck that they might not know we have will be the BE, so we are definitely taking it.

Early discord beats devtal, and probably most of aethers decks though, which is why I do like this deck against them.


It lost  0 - 3 vs the mummy deck, even with 3 upgrades. The most entertaining thing that happened was pandemonium rewinding a mummy, and being discorded enough to make 2 scarabs (one of which was antimattered) and using a lighning on a dragon to weaken him for the kill right before the final blow.
But yeah, that was bad, and that makes me think that aether might use it. Wings might make a difference in making this game contestable, maybe. Early arsenics are a huge pain too :/


Against time, Blooms deck is looking pretty good to me - the only problem is that if we use the entropy deck, we won't have the 3 shockwaves to spare there. The only other option I can see would be the mono air (deflags w/ nymph). We have cards that would fit in this deck (1 fog, 1 pend, 1 vamp is my initial thought, but maybe even FW) so that shouldn't be a huge issue. I used the logic for aether, but many time creatures too are killed by shockwave, I dunno..

I guess this one needs testing too.


Even my pictures, as with my text, must be deciphered. Sorry about that.

We're low on pillars/pends, I just converted all the gravity cards (BH/Chargers) - we won't be matched up against UW again, and even then, theyll have Sanctuaries. Just say if this was a problem

[plastiqe]

Tested the Entropy duo against Aether's winning decks from last round.  If Aether does something wacky like add a couple swords to get enough Minor Phoenix it could be trouble, and I also didn't do well against the Death Duo either.  I still think it's a solid choice for us as Discord always gives you a chance to win on a lucky draw.

[DrunkDestroyer]

Ok, both the decks I tested against  performed similarly enough, but overall - I think the darkness one was a little better, with the Fog + Dagger combination being a huge pain. (The other one's 2 deflags were too inconsistent and were always used on pillars, so I could just rewind the nymph forever :/ )




vs

by DrunkDestroyer

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vs

by DrunkDestroyer

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Anyway, the problem of 3 shockwaves still exists - they are useful against both teams which tend to use creatures with >4 health. We should definitely remove one from the darkness duo for a second fog - and we might want a Steal or two in there as well. (The permanents worth stealing are arsenic/fog or Eternity or Dimshields if they do play that one) - every single one of times deck use permanents that are worth stealing.


plastiqe just made me doubt this decision now that I realise can fractal phoenixes, but maybe putting 2 or 3 Wings into our entropy deck? (we have 1 wings, for each extra we would need to lose a Dragon - which we have 8 of). I think it would make the mummy deck beatable - now that arsenic is less annoying and we have a few turns to find some damage.

Last thing that needs to be done (if we plan on using the decks that are shown above) is finding another damselfly, or finding a substitute for one in one of the decks. In theory, I think the first one can rewind a Wyrm all the way to deckout, not ideal, but I think it has the quanta.



Also - we are supposed to be at 117 cards. I added a Shield, which should have put us at 118. We are at 119. I think its probably the addition of the Bone Pillar which made this weird, I'm PMing kevkev about it so we don't get penalised, because I think I did the salvage/discard correctly.