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Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417596#msg417596
« on: October 29, 2011, 09:48:20 pm »
I'm not gonna bother to deny that last round was a shitty one for us. I thought up many of the decks, tested them, double checked the vault compliance, and was feeling pretty confident of our chances in most match ups, so I'll take full responsibility for our failings.

We are currently in 10th place, with 156 cards. We have 6 match ups this round. At this point, we can basically dissolve into inactivity, or try to grab as much as possible to make the strongest possible finish. With the discards and match ups, nothing will stay solid for long, and the other teams will crumble and struggle, and if we can hold on, we can still get back up to the top of the table.


And a piece of good news, the event card this time allows us to take 24 pillars, 18 creatures, 9 spells and 9 permanents to our vault. This should be huge for us, as we can stregnthen a lot of our decks and reduce all damage to quality and losses. We should make the best attempt to rework our vault with this, discards and salvages for this round.


The match ups for this round are below

TuckingFypo vs Onizuka  :darkness
Legit vs MatyrX  :earth
plastiqe vs AngelMusti  :underworld
Lt. Pervepic vs thenewguy  :entropy
Gen.DrunkDestroyer vs Bhelwos  :gravity
Robotocracy vs Gen. MrBlonde  :death

(This is how our Member Roles is laid out. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31919.0.html is where we can change all this, so that people who are busier can sit rounds out, and people who have time and want to play can move further up. Bloom, Legit sorry about this round, if I hear something, I'll definitely move you up on this)



Decks!!!

DrunkDestroyer
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pervepic
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5f9 5od 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5p0 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 621 7oe 7oe 7oe 80g 80g 80g 8pu






Robotocracy
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TuckingFypo
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Legit
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plastiqe
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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417602#msg417602
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 09:54:13 pm »
Keep 6 Cards from each

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5lk 5lk 5lk 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5ok 5ok 5ok 5ok 5ok 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61o 61o 63a 63a 7jq 7jq 7ms 7oe 80i 80i 80i 80i 80i 8pu


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52r 52r 52r 52r 52r 52r 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 71a 7n5 7n5 8pk


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55s 55s 55s 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5ld 5ld 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 5mq 745 745 745 8pl


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THEN


- 3 Cards (penalty)

+ 24 Pillars
+18 Creatures
+9 Spells
+9 Permanents

CARDS ARE LIMITED TO 3 EACH (Therefore no 10 Air Dragons, we have to go 3 Wyrms, 3 Dragons ect...)

Offline TuckingFypo

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417677#msg417677
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 12:52:47 am »
Shouldn't Bloom be in instead of BC?  Anyhoo, the quarter ends next week so I might be a bit busy with schoolwork.  I can still be  on for discussion, have time to grind for upgrades, and probably play out my match but it'll be really really really tight.  Revenge would be sweet but if either Bloom or Legit(?) wants a spot I'd like if they'd take mine first.

I still have no idea what the metagame of War is, so I'll start with Salvages/Discards even though it's probably better to do it the other way around.

Here's my probably flawed thinking:

If I did the math right, we currently have 3 Wind pillars and 7 pends.  I'd take all Wind pillars, but maybe 2 Aether.
We have lost 12 Dragons, 8 Dragonflies, and 9 Wyrms.  I'd take 3 of each.
We currently have 7 pends.  We should save at least 3 slots from the event card for pends.

That leaves 9 creatures and spells, and 6 permanents, and maybe 4 other pillars.

The rest seems subjective, depending on what deck we want to save.  Personally I'd save at least the Grabbow, FractalFly, and the Bonewall/OE deck.

For the FractalFly, the crucial cards are the Fractals, Fireflies, Dragons, and Hope.  We can get 3 Flies, 4 (Imo) Fractals and a Hope from the Event Card; and 2 Flies, 2 Dragons, and 2 Hopes from the Discards.

That leaves 6 creatures, 5 spells and 5 permanents.

For the Grabbow, we need the Novas and Graboids.  I'd get the Nova's from the Discard and the Graboids from the Event.  I'm actually a bit iffy for this one, since with 5 novas it might not work as well.

For the last 5 spells, we could get 5 FW's.  We need to save the Bonewalls from the Discard.  OE's we could save from the event card, but we're also going to lose 5 Fog Shields.
TL;DR
22 Wind Pillars
2 Aether Pillars
3 Azure Dragons, Wyrms, Dragonflies, Fireflies
4 Graboids
2 Creatures of something
5 Novas
1 Hope
5 OE's or Fog Shields

3 Permanents of something, Air Pends if needed.

...I'll start with the win against  :light  :P
IMO we could take the Chargers and Titans.  Now we have something to use with BH's.

From the FractalFly, 2 Fireflies, 2 Hopes, 2 Dragons.

From the Grabbow, 6 Novas.

From the Bonewall/OE deck, 6 Bonewalls.

Our  :air :water duo is dead I think.  We need the Wings more than anything else.  With 3 cards left it's not worth taking 3 Toadfishes so we shouldn't take any at all.  We can still splash the Purifies into our Grabbow though.

For the  :air :fire duo, I don't think we need to save the Deflags; we'll still have 8.  I'd take the creatures.  We can choose from 4 Phoenixes, 4 Dragonflies, 3 Wyrms, and 2 Dragons.  Or we could forget the duo with  :fire and turn it into a splash.  If we do that I'd take 3 Wyrms, 2 Dragons, and 1 Fly.

For the  :air :time duo.  I'm starting to debate the actual usefulness of RT's.  Maybe just 3 Dragons/Wyrms?

For the  :air :aether duo, I have no idea.  Maybe the Lobo's though.TL;DR with decks in order from DD's post

No idea.
2 Fireflies, 2 Dragons, 2 Hope
6 Bonewalls
3 Chargers, 3 Titans(we probably won't need that much, but they can be converted.  AHh, speaking of that...)
3 Wings, 3 Purify
3 Wyrms, 3 Dragons
3 Wyrms, 2 Dragons, 1 Fly
6 Novas.

For penalties, discard 3 random cards. >.<

Err...I highly think we need to convert 24 more cards into pillars and pends again.  That might not even be enough.  We could take cards out from ^ if needed too.

Offline BC

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417731#msg417731
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 03:03:31 am »
Shouldn't Bloom be in instead of BC?
Wondering about t his also. But I should be able to play my match this round if it can't be changed or whatever.
We have seen better times and I apologize for not being able to contribute more to the whole strategy stuff but I can guarantee that I will play any given deck to the best of my abilities..

Offline Bloom

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417789#msg417789
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 06:17:02 am »
but if either Bloom or Legit(?) wants a spot I'd like if they'd take mine first.
Umm, if you don't want your match up (can't make it) I'll take it from you. Although I don't want to feel like I'm stealing :s
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.” - Terence McKenna

Offline Legit

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417799#msg417799
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2011, 06:37:50 am »
Remember we DISCARD 24, so if the decks have more than 30 cards we can keep more than 6 from them. Like the Aether duo we can keep 9, not 6.

As far as the event card and salvaging/discarding go, I think we should create decks for each matchup and then choose the cards we keep to fit in with the decks we make.

Rough ideas:

vs Gravity: (3 sancs from event card)
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vs Death: (3 sundial + precog from event card)
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vs Entropy: (Immo + Blue Nymph + Wings from event card) Note there is too much quanta in this deck and it doesn't need that many pends but I didn't know what else to put in.
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vs Underworld: (Not sure about this)
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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417824#msg417824
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2011, 07:29:20 am »
Okay, the difference between our player order and the actual matches (I presume) are due to the differences on the Team Roster (which has the order currently shown), and our own Member Roles thread. I left a comment, kevkev should reply, so we should be set up for next round. (We can figure out what order we give right up to the end of the duelling phase).

I'm under the impression that every person here can complete the match this round, so I'm just going to leave it up to him what happens here.




I also agree with making the decks first, although a basic outline of how many pillars/pends we need to keep to stay stable wouldn't hurt. In good news, we have a strong base of gravity cards now with our BHs, and potential salvage of Chargers and Titans, which we can mix with Crusaders to keep both duos. (Obviously we can back up these by taking more out of our 18 creatures)

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55l 55l 55l 55l 55l 55v 55v 55v 55v 55v 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5od 5of 5of 5of 5of 5og 5ol 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 8pl

Simple deck to bring against  :underworld (They will most likely not think of us as taking BHs. Pillar count is completely random - might need playing with)

@Legit's Decks

:aether Air nymph: Maybe +1 Dragon and +1 Quint? With only two, we run the risk of not having enough damage by the time we draw them to eventual deckout (or loss by damage). Spiders are also a possibility if there is a lot of excess quanta (for Wings)

:light Crusader Sanctuary: Sanctuary vs an element with Discord BH is a great option. Maybe a few miracles? (1 or 2, seems to have a bit of excess light quanta here.


Although, really, you should, I did build every one of  :air 's decks last round, soo..

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(2 more spiders should be upped IMO)
I'll get to testing a few of these soon. Looks like Trainer is down. Rejoice for 1.292, but I won't be able to get to this for a while unfortunately, so just keep coming with ideas, and then we can figure out which are the best I guess.

Offline plastiqe

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg417970#msg417970
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2011, 03:21:18 pm »
I can tell just by looking at it that the Sapphire Chargers/Black Hole deck is way underquanta'd, 6 Pends and the mark would have you sitting with a lot of unplayable gravity cards in your hand for a long time.  And by the way, nobody has been taking Reverse Time against us, so why not put in a couple flying Titans there?  I'm also in favour of taking AdrenaStaves with some of our free cards, it's only like 5 perms and 4 spells + the Air cards and it could be a strong deck vs Earth.

Offline BC

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg418054#msg418054
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2011, 06:18:43 pm »
nobody has been taking Reverse Time against us
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32975.0.html

Although funny thing is I almost won that one even though his deck almost totally countered mine.

Offline Legit

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg418388#msg418388
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 02:11:37 am »
I'm also in favour of taking AdrenaStaves with some of our free cards, it's only like 5 perms and 4 spells + the Air cards and it could be a strong deck vs Earth.
If we took an Adrenastaves deck, we could at maximum take 3 staves and 3 adrenaline.

vs Darkness (3 fire storms from event card. This gets around cloak, deflags for shields and weapon. Upgrade 3rd fire storm. Air cards can be changed.
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vs Earth (Not sure here, use whatever is left over?)

Also, apparently I'm playing instead of BC now. Sorry to take your spot BC, but I've only played one match while you've played three  :P

Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg418414#msg418414
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 03:25:39 am »
kevkev fixed the player order, so thats why BatCountry and Legit swapped.


Looking over the decks at the moment. The closest I figure we'll get to adrenastaves is something like this
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5c5 5c5 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c9 5c9 5c9 5og 5og 5oi 5oi 5oi 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 7mu 7mu 7mu 8pn

Hoping that they give us one of their massive stalls here. There might be too much  :life , we can definitely take out one of both scorpion and mitosis (I'm always worrying about Immortal), and put some more air in there. Maybe just dragons or something.



vs Darkness
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The testing here didn't go too well.
1-3 vs PU Dragons
2-3 vs Grabbow
0-3 vs Ghostmare
1-3 vs Devtal (surprised at this one, the RoFs must have been badly placed all 3 losses)

Like always, it was against the AI, which doesn't even use its OEs, and will deflag a pendulum making it unable to RoF - I don't know how much this would change against an actual human.
And I might be putting in a little more effort into this match up because I would love to demolish Onizuka into pieces so small even the intellectual child prodigy of the century wouldn't be able to fix him, but...


vs Gravity
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3-1 vs DiscBH. Learned more about their discord BH than anything, the deck wasn't built amazingly IMO. Uses 6 cards to make up for 3 dead cards. Just shows how useful it is to have powerhouse staples like Disc/BH in your element :/ .

0-3 vs EarthDuo. (Ok, learn - do not play OE if pulveriser is out and you cannot fly it. AI fail. And what could it be holding in its hand, waiting for? Sky Blitz?)

vs Entropy
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2-1 vs Time Splash. This was a joke. The deck is unplayable by the ai, who would quint spiders, blow up their own nymph (which I could not target with my CC for fairness sake). I have a feeling a similar result would happen, 6 Dimshields and early to midgame nymph are enough to win this one, but... (loss was by deckout, with the nymph played and dead)

I am automatically assuming it would win against every deckout stall (bar any - so far nonexistant - with fire/thorn/reflective shield, leaving only - the deck with BE and steal (loss) and the grabbow.

1-3 vs Grabbow (9 upgrades). The win was due to a terrible nova draw, actually won without a single gas. The shields need to come fast this game, two deflags mean that damage loss needs to be to a minimum and the decks damage needs to come as fast as possible, so the discord needs to be stopped. (Thank everything for the deflag nerf though, and just hope for nova next). Should be possible IMO, not ideal but possible. (we have had worse luck against us).




vs Underworld
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(Better built than mine)


Possible Mod of this vs Earth
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3-2 vs Grabbow. Wow, it even had purifies, and the ai was using adrenaline on the scorps, mitosis on the wyrms... some bad luck on earths side (and the grabbow wasn't build amazingly IMO, ran much less smoothly than the other teams' which I've tested against, may have been bad luck) - but this deck won. Trying it against a couple others.

1-3 vs Time Duo. Logic dictates that Eternity will beat a deck with either flying weapons, mitosis or adrenaline. Surprise surprise.

Mitosis/scorpion poison are great build ups. Diamond shield is the only thing stopping it from beating immortal. (Then again, 30 turns of Wyrm build-up for awesome diving might do it, seems like a lot of effort to test :P )

Loses to the fire stall once Diamond shield hits the game, then the CC can be used to target the only actual dangers (wyrms) and mitosising enough is impossible.



But the deck as posted above is probably/definitely too many cards to take without sacrificing other decks unfortunately.


Offline TuckingFypo

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Re: Round 4 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=33109.msg418451#msg418451
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 06:49:21 am »
Hmm, calendars for my classes have been posted and things look ugly.  :'(  Could Bloom have my match-up?

@DD's Decks^
I don't think we have all the cards for all of those decks.
From those decks the bare minimum we have to take from the Event Card are:
3 Druidic Staves
3 Sancs
3 Wings
6 UG's
3 Sundials
3 Adren
3 Mitosis
3 RoF
2 Miracles
2 Skyblitz?
1 Immo
1 Holy Light
3 PrecogThat's about 9 Permanents and 10 Spells too many, 6/4 barring AdrenaStaves.

I'm against taking AdrenaStaves; with only 3 Staves/Adrenaline it looks really draw dependent (although testing could prove me wrong).

At the Darkness deck, the main reason I lost was because Oni kept PU'ing my dragons (when he didn't draw his own).  Would Wyrms work better?

Hmm...how do the decks against Entropy and Death work? :0

 

blarg: DrunkDestroyer,Legit