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Offline kevTopic starter

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Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1042531#msg1042531
« on: February 14, 2013, 09:28:41 pm »
:air Jen-ivs:time Gen. PlayerOa
:darkness ddevansvs:air Gen. kev
:air justaburdvs:earth Kakerlake
:water Onizukavs:air AnnaMall
:air Elbirnvs:light Kuroaitou
:air Bloomvs:fire Acsabi44


Deckbuilding: Duel phase has started
Duels: Fighting ends!

Notes:
The element needs to be posted in your secret section. It will be made public once deckbuilding ends.


We'll use this topic (and chat) to discuss who should take which deck with what build, etc.  As I said in the Deck Ideas thread, you are ultimately responsible for your deck choice each round.  I will not be choosing your deck for you (though I hope you'll listen to the opinions of your teammates and I  ;D).  Part of deckbuilding is choosing roles for each player.  It makes more sense to include who should be Lt for the round as a part of the deckbuilding discussion as the Lt gets three extra ups.  Likewise, we have a decision to make each round on whether to make use of the Berserker ability, etc.  In future rounds we will also need to discuss s/d/c/p.  All of these discussions occur concurrently, and we'll use a thread like this as well as chat to facilitate the discussion.

Spoiler for Member roles reminders:
General - uses nine ups
- Lieutenant - uses six ups
- Strategist - may remove up to six cards from his deck before each duel. Each duel must have a legal deck, and his full deck must also be legal.
- Berserker - discard 1, 2 or 3 cards from the Vault during deckbuilding. The Berserker may use 1, 3 or 4 extra upgrades respectively.
- Quartermaster - if the Quartermaster plays in a battle, each winner from their team may claim 1 card from their element by relinquishing 3 of their salvage, or 2 salvage if the Quartermaster wins. Limit of two cards per person. Teams may not claim cards they already have at least 6 copies of.
- Standard Bearer - salvages N more cards and discards N fewer cards, where N is the number of wins their team has had that round.

Please try to have initial thoughts written 48 hours into deckbuilding each round at the very latest.  Bonus points for earlier. ;)  That gives us two days to discuss, finalize, sdcp, add everything to vault, etc.

Countdown to 48 hour mark: was here

Offline Elbirn

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1042540#msg1042540
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 09:43:39 pm »
OpponentAlso Faces...
:time:entropy :light(gen) :life :darkness :earth
:darkness:life :time :entropy :death
:earth:aether :life :light :time :gravity
:water:light :gravity :entropy(gen) :death :life
:light:aether :water(gen) :time :earth :fire(gen)
:fire:death(gen) :gravity :light
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 10:01:06 pm by Elbirn »
:air Team Air War#7 :air
:air Team Air War#6 :air
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Offline Elbirn

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1042573#msg1042573
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2013, 10:44:27 pm »
As for my deck, tl;dr version: Thinking about accela/cata titans.

EDIT: The concensus among you guys seems to be some kind of fractalgons. While a titan deck would be best against their stalls, it would fare a bit worse against some other decks, particularly discosaders. That being the case, Fractalgons sounds like a great option.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 05:58:44 pm by Elbirn »
:air Team Air War#7 :air
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Offline Jen-i

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1042795#msg1042795
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 03:14:15 pm »
Here's a list of the decks I'm considering:

Fractal Damsels
RT Splash
Dim Dragons
Grabbow

Hurricane is a possibility - but Mall thinks its too slow.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 04:53:15 pm by Jen-i »
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Offline Jen-i

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1042966#msg1042966
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 09:03:49 pm »
Fire Match up
If my assessment of Fire's Vault here, is correct.

Then considering their matchups here's how I see their deck assignments.

Vs:lightFire Stall - this would be a poor place to play this deck considering the HP of the creatures they are using and their use of Immortal and Reflective Shield
Poison Bolt - Considering the healing to which the have access and the notes regarding Fire Stall I see this being an equally poor choice against light
Fractrix - Given the choice between Fractrix and a Mono Deck I think the break Ability of Fractrix wins hands down
Vs:gravityFire Stall - This would be an insane choice considering the HP of their creatures
This leaves them a choice between the Mono Rush and Poison Bolt - I see the choice being equal

This leaves them with Fire Stall, Immo Rush and a Bone Wall deck to field against us.
I'm thinking the Immo Rush fails to the CC we consistently run - and besides its a better play against Gravity anyways.
So we're left seeing either the deck we faced last round or a Fire Stall - To be safe we need to prepare for both.

In their shoes I'd play Fire Stall but if they are forced to suicide I think their preference would be to suicide to death.

I think kev's suggestion from last round is perfect - Flying Titans (Accel) is the way to go - although we could gamble on their lack of PC and go for a Cat/Accel split

Light Match up
Looking a the decks they've played and what they've lost with I'd be inclined to send a Dim/PU dragon deck again this round - and include a Fractal for break ability as needed. They have almost no PC and half of what they do have comes from Butterfly Effect - if we keep the Saders dead it's no threat to the deck.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 09:16:29 pm by Jen-i »
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Offline kevTopic starter

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1042982#msg1042982
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 09:27:31 pm »
Some people point to number of injuries as the key determinant of success each year in the NFL.  The theory goes that there's so much parity between players, coaching, etc., that how many injuries a team sustains actually becomes the #1 factor in whether a team makes the postseason.  In much the same way, I think staying off-radar is pretty key in War.  Constantly getting matched against Strategists and Lieutenants adds up over time.  The bad news is that we're on the radar for some teams, like Time.  The good news is the more they focus on what they think we have in vault, the more opportunity their is to win by bringing something else to the table.

Usual drill.  Haven't looked at any other recommendations yet.  I'm going to try to emphasize decks/cards that teams haven't seen yet or decks/cards they might believe to be eliminated.  I'm probably going to fail and fall back on our presets, but I'd love to see creative options from the team.

:water Onizuka - They've tried Flying Titans and Dragons, both creatures that aren't bothered by Wings and cc.  Looking at their other matchups, I think we're likely to face their fire or dark splashes with high hp creatures (abyss crawlers, drags, steamies, etc).  Steamies might be a good choice for them as we've now used four light stalls in three rounds and we haven't been especially rushy.  Given the team's reliance on creature damage as a whole, we should be packing cc.  But the high hp creatures mean freeze, BB, and RT are wise.  I'd like to salvage RTs and splash them in a rush.  Hurricane is another good option.

:time Gen. PlayerOa - We haven't used our grabbow since it lost in R1, so it might be believed dead.  While taking a grabbow is unusual against Time, ours beats the bows they've sent us the last two rounds as well as their EQ earf duo, in case Time has decided generic quanta disruption is the tool du jour against us.  I'd go -1 momentum, +1 mirror just in case they bring the UG dial deck as they did in R1.

:light Kuroaitou - The trouble with Light as an element is the three creatures Kuro is most likely to use cost 6, 12, and 9 Light (Kuro has 5 White Nymphs).  Because they favor mirrors over solars against us, decks are likely to be underquanta'd or have very few creatures.  This pushes them towards making stalls.  They resist (they've used exactly two every round,) because one-dimensional teams don't fare well, but with their backs against the wall, they'll do what they must.  Kuro, with 5 Nymphs, is well equipped to stall.  So I could see him taking the Immortal but he probably views our previous two decks as breakers, so he may not want to go that way.  He could also use their dissader deck which beats the two decks we've previously sent, but it's weak against Sws or our light stalls.  Ultimately a good option for him might be a deflag or steal splash.  An RT splash on our part or Hurricane are both good options there.  Not a lot of conviction in mindgating here, though because I think some form of PC is relatively likely we should consider going light on perms.

:earth Kakerlake - Last round I predicted pulvy rush or flying staves.  They didn't use either last round, and maul points out in the Earth analysis thread they're losing in-element hitters, so I think both decks are fairly likely options against us this round.  Immortal is always a possibility but since it looks like we played 2 Nymphs against them last round to break their stall, they may be unwilling to try a Stall.  They haven't played a mirror yet all War and so far there's no possibility they salvaged any through the first three rounds.  For these reasons I'll make my same recommendation as last round: Hurricane with 6 Toadfish, fewer perms and more quanta.

:fire Acsabi44 - First off, I'd like to apologize for the Fire matchup last round.  I think I misunderstood what Jen said about Shadow Dragons and then nudged Burd into playing it to free up accelatitans and our light stall.  My bad.  This round we're probably facing 6 ups (Lt or Ber) or their Strategist, so it'll be a tough matchup no matter what.  I'm actually no longer enthused about accelatitans since they already played a critterless stall against us last round and accelatitans isn't fast enough to keep up with their rush.  Light stall might be our best option.

:darkness ddevans vs :air Gen. kev - I'm definitely open to opinions here.  Right now I'm thinking Fractalgons speed version is a good option.  They haven't used a dim yet and NM really only appears in their ghostmare and sometimes one copy in their grabbow.  As far as area of effect cards goes, it looks like they've used one copy of firestorm in a deck they probably no longer have.  Feedback appreciated.

Edit: I realize Hurricane is part of my recommendation in 3/6 of matchups.  :P  In all, I see us facing rushes this round and I'd like to send doms in response.  Bonair might be a good alternative, or something more custom.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 09:29:37 pm by kev »

Offline Jen-i

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1043142#msg1043142
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 05:27:25 am »
:water Onizuka - Mall said in his analysis that their decks all look like Rush decks or Break Decks - and in that light he wasn't to try to rush them - I'd rather run Hurricane here - I agree with kev's point above, they rely heavily on creature damage and don't seem to be running a lot of control themselves.

:time Gen. Onizuka - I played around with a Grabbow that I'm liking at the moment - I feel fairly convinced that we're going to see the same deck again with likely a couple slight mods and more upgrades.

:light Kuroaitou - As I said above - I don't see them having PC in their decks and they had no opportunity to salvage any last round - I'd run the same deck at them with slight modifications - add a fractal for stall breaking and add some shockwaves to counter BE - if we keep the deck 31 cards we can deck out RoL/Hope if we need to by Dim Stalling them to death.

:earth Kakerlake - As I see it we have two options - we either try and beat both Immortal and their PC duos (Dark and Golem) or we decide that they are unlikely to try and stall us again and instead run some sort of control deck. The RT Splash deck I suggested above may work - so would Hurricane. 2 Nymphs is probably okay in this match up - but I worry that they'll build specifically to counter it and bring piles of BB to the fight. (Although the version I ran last round would still probably win the match)

:fire Acsabi44 - Flying Titans

:darkness ddevans - Bone Air - It has the CC to handle whatever creatures they manage to scrape together - and with TStorm it has a chance if they bring Pestal our direction.
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Offline AnnaMall

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1043233#msg1043233
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2013, 01:06:15 pm »
 :water Tested if we could outrush them...not very good results, so my second thought was hurricane, but they salvaged a crap load of dims last round

 :time expect to see bow again, but I wouldn't sent a bow vs time, I would consider it the same mistake as last round. Probably overquantaed fractalgons

 :fire from jen's report that seems still accurate I believe acctits(add some cc and test vs immorush?) or light stall can work here

 :light dimfractalgons with some CC for discosaders can work wonders. The option of deckouting rolhope is not so viable since they run silence!!!

 :earth always tough for me to predict. I am convinced they are short in hitters so I can see something slow coming our way.

 :darkness unpredictable. I like bonair suggestion here for the steal resistance. Can we add 1-2 FW for arse/OE protection? Not sure if OE or arse is a better choice still

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1043480#msg1043480
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 04:11:49 am »
I have only briefly gazed over everyone else's thoughts and didn't take anyone's thoughts into consideration when making my suggestions.

 :time The only game I actually took other's ideas. I guess we're using grabbow. Anyone feeling -1 Arsenic, +1 EE for dat CC?

 :darkness Darkness will be struggling after that 1-5 round and a 2 nymph variation could be in order here.

 :light sumfin like dis
Spoiler for Hidden:
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Deck import code : [Select]
5of 5of 5of 5of 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 624 624 7mt 7mt 7mt 8pu

 :earth They haven't shown any decks that have heavy CC aside from RT, and they seem to be short on hitters, so I suggest Hurricane

 :fire As I mentioned in the Team Pad, I initially leaned towards Acceletits, and I still consider that a viable option, but I'm also considering Light Stall

 :water Maybe something like this as a strat, I'm not really sure though, it's a tough matchup. Probably more pillars and less pends, if anything
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5of 5of 5of 5of 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5up 5up 5up 5uu 5uu 5uu 5uu 5v2 5v2 5v2 5v2 7mv 7tb 7tb 8pt
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 04:17:24 am by Bloom »
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Offline Jen-i

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1043492#msg1043492
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 06:01:07 am »
I take back my suggestion of Flying Titans against Fire - in testing it beats Fire Stall easily, but is no better than 50/50 against their Poison Bolt and gets crushed by either their mono or Fractrix.

Here's the build I was using:
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55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 5oh 5oh 5oh 5oh 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 74i 74i 74i 8pl


I TStorms were meant as a counter to their Phoenix and as a means of avoiding more perms.
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Offline justaburd

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1043578#msg1043578
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 05:20:30 pm »
My thoughts are on the pad. :)
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Offline kevTopic starter

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Re: Round 4 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46904.msg1043613#msg1043613
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 06:49:50 pm »
My thoughts are on the pad. :)
Sweet.  We all need to have decks chosen today, as there's still a lot left to decide.

I'm not certain about Bonair, as I said in the pad, cuz I don't think it stands up well against their grabbow, their fractal decks, or their light stall. Additional feedback appreciated. I'm thinking it'll be easier to decide when more of you guys have selected. I should be last to pick for a couple reasons anyway.

 

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