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Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg414436#msg414436
« on: October 22, 2011, 10:38:49 pm »
Last round wasn't amazing, but overall, 6 - 4 with a good starting vault keeps us in a good position to move onwards. Good Luck and Bad Luck happen, but in the long term, good decks and strategy will win, and I'm sure we have quite a bit of that in this team  :)

The event card(s) here are a little weird to me: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32818.msg443623/boardseen.html#new
Basically, we can pick either to rush or stall.

Personally, I think we should try to let this event card dictate our gameplay as little as possible as then we can be more predicted and beaten easily, so my choice would be to go with the first one (Rush) and if we do beat an opponent by turn 13 and screenshot the end screen (we have up to 3 turns to do this), we will score ourselves 3 bonus cards. If a stall is the best way to go to win a match up though, then we go for the stall, and completely ignore the event card.

I'm thinking that most teams (bar maybe death, light and earth) will go with this one, so we can expect slightly more rush decks.

Matchups
Legit vs Lt. Ak65ala  :life
Lt. Pervepic vs Spielkind  :light
BatCountry vs inthisroom  :time
TuckingFypo vs Onizuka  :darkness
Robotocracy vs Rush6  :entropy
Gen. DrunkDestroyer vs Lt. Mithicarion  :earth
Bloom vs PuppyChow  :gravity
plastiqe vs Lt. Antagon  :fire   (Couldn't have made this matchup better myself)

We have much more information this round, so we should have a better shot at this.

For anyone who hasn't taken a look, we have a specific topic for salvages which should clear things up, and it will definitely change what we can play this round, so make your opinions heard! http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32737.0.html


Battle phase has started!
until the end of Deckbuilding round










Basic thoughts about what other teams may throw at us

 :light
 :life Flying Staves/Crusader or Fire Stall seem the most likely..
 :time Might bring Dune Scorps. Time stalls decently too.
 :darkness Ghostmare or Devtal I'm thinking
 :entropy Dragons almost failed them, I think they will probably go with Pandebonium or another stall
 :earth Most likely a creatureless stall.
 :gravity Possibly discord BH ?
 :fire Maybe another stall. However, with limited vault, they are also the most likely to go with a plain rush hoping to beat us out.

Most are unlikely to use very creature or permanent based decks. I just went through a basic process of elimination from their winning decks and anything above is whats left.

Offline Legit

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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg414587#msg414587
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 03:04:08 am »
I'm going to assume Fire has a Cremation rush, a nova grabby, a firestall, and fractix. Only general/lieutenant can go with fractix and I think they will use it against us. (With Napalm using Cremation deck against light).

Darkness will most likely use cloaks. Ghostmare and devtal sounds like decent options but I think they will use an aether duo with the TU dragons and perhaps dim shields, along with cloaks.

Entropy: Pandebonium sounds likely. Entropy also has a ton of strong discord and rainbow decks so this matchup will be tough.

Gravity has limited options, nova rush or discord/BH (I'm going to assume they keep enough cards to make another because it's one of their strongest decks). Additionally they may have an earth/entropy stall because they can keep 15+ cards when they lose.

Note my logic usually fails.

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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg414599#msg414599
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 03:38:24 am »
I agree with DD - the event card shouldn't effect our deckbuilding.  If we get a few extra cards, that's nice, but it's not worth losing a match because we tried to get bonus points and messed up.

Some guesses on the other team's decks:
 :life expect lots of healing, I'm guessing theirs will be more on the stall side than the rush side
 :light probably going to involve archangels and possibly crusaders
 :time with eternity they can stall indefinitely and dune scorps are great for wearing out opponents over time.  If there's one element that has the capacity to stall, it's time - unless we have reason to believe they're going to rush to try to throw us off.
 :darkness very high probability of permanent control, other than that I'm not sure
 :entropy 5 out of 6 of their winning decks last round had discord - it's proving to be very popular.  I'm betting they're going for a rush, possibly with novas.
 :earth no predictions for earth, I'm not sure what they're going to do
 :gravity might go for a rush involving momentum, or one with graboids
 :fire I'm guessing they'll go for a cremation rush, considering it's the only thing that worked for them last round, though a stall is possible

Offline Bloom

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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg414645#msg414645
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 06:24:05 am »
Just some deck ideas I have for this round. I can't come up with anything against  :time  :earth and  :life

Against :entropy
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Maybe a grabby rush against  :light?
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Against  :darkness
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Anti-Cremation Rush against  :fire
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Against  :gravity I don't think there is anything they can throw at us to beat this deck
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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg414931#msg414931
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 08:39:01 pm »
At the moment, I'm thinking this for  :entropy

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I am taking out the Fog shield and putting in a 3rd Wings. (Done)

Wings give it some power against Discord (and Arsenic), Purifies > Poison, and it seems to have enough damage to pull through.
We only have 4 (!) wings left in the vault, so if we take this, we can't take the spider/poison deck. (Since it lost, we can save it to bring it out a few rounds in anyway as a surprise deck)
Dragonflies I am not sure about either, pillars might prove more effective. (If they get >2 shots at the bonewalls each they are worth it, as long as we don't need the quanta they would have provided. Confusing stuff)

Pandebonium is not the most stable deck with all the inconsistencies in the cards themselves, then you also get games where every single poison is at the bottom
Course, the deck did win 3 -1, even with abysmal playing of Purify. (One win and one loss were close, rest were quite decisive).

(The worry like always is Discord BH, ugh.)


Okay, now onto  :darkness - the deck I am thinking about is
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Bad luck and bad playing by the ai meant that this deck only went 3-2 (still a win) against the PU Dragon deck. If we have an accidental loudmouth in chat we might even get them to slow-play pillars first game when they see an earth mark :P

Novas and creatures are adaptable and can be played at suitable times when playing ghostmare and devtal (the latter which I would not expect with only 3 upgrades considering their build last round), the same can't be said for pillars/pendulums.

We have enough discords that we can throw another one in there somewhere, we could also sneak in one of our new nightmares ;) . One deflag might not be enough, but 2 is pushing it with a maximum of 6  :fire quanta.


 :earth is a pain. We get 9 upgrades here though, probably makes a difference somewhere.
I'm thinking to just discord the hell out of them. They have a couple of grabbows (which I doubt they would play against wings (us) , the rest of their decks seem quite quanta dependent.
Problem is their 43 card sanctuary miracle stone skin stall (with one Morning star, we are not going to play 44 pillars here), which ignores discord, and pretty much everything else. The closest we have to a deck with limitless damage is Fractal Fireflies (we can play it as slow as we want to get as close to a full field of dragons as possible) - but that sucks to the poison deck they used last round. (and RP/d Steel Golems are probably enough to win out against Hope).

Shite. I might be missing something (so please look around), otherwise we'll just take the deck we don't need in the other duels  :-\
(Light stall seems most likely to me, with poison stall second in this match up)

Current thought - most likely needs revising
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All of  :life 's decks at the moment are a little slow to set up, so this one might work.

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Two lobotomisers in here (to delete the healing from mitosis crusaders or adrenavamps, although quints can be used here if we know they have no CC - first game can be used as a test for this), I think I stole one from the Fractal Fireflies - that has to be considered if we choose to use that deck. (Currently just for  :earth , where I don't think we need lobo too much)

Needs testing, I think it would give all 3 winning decks from last round quite a challenge (and the winning deck from the round before. Again, quints can be used to prevent adrenaline :) )



 :light is doing quite well, but most of their decks involve creatures, and only 1 of their winning 6 had sanctuaries. I'm thinking we should take this one

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I took out a second maxwell for an antimatter, but now I remember how awesome it is with Owls Eye (especially against Golden Dragons/Arcangels). Might be worth it. Could also be the last card between deckout and victory, although if we keep saying that, we'll end up with a inconsistent mess.
(It's an awesome deck too. I just tested it against the 32 card light deck, things looked a bit bad at the start, but the deck absolutely demolished. Looks good even when the AI plays it, which is quite a compliment)

If it ends up against crusaders though, might be best not to play the discord if the draw wasn't the greatest quanta-wise.



 :gravity is a little problematic. Their grabbow is powerful (they will most likely have a mix of momentum and gravity pull), and so is their discord BH. Those are the only decks that have won for them, and thats because they're effing good. 

 :time has the threat of dune scorps, although these will probably only be taken by Generals and Liutenants to keep the deck running as fast as possible. 10 men also seems fond of rainbows with pharaohs. Reverse times are quite likely, in all decks.

 :fire Quintessences might have done the trick (as suggested above by Bloom) but they work well with dimshields which go better against life. They aren't too strong at the moment, meaning we might get lucky and find ourselves against a weaker deck, but they can still rush us hard. (Or Firestall us hard, uggh)





Yeah. Anyone else?

Offline Legit

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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg415359#msg415359
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 11:04:16 pm »
DD, your last edit is at xx:13:37. It's a sign. We should use all those decks.

In response:

vs Entropy. With 3 Wings DD's deck might stand a chance against Discord but in reality Entropy has a ton of strong decks and we don't have a hard counter for anything they throw at us. As much as I love 41 card decks, against entropy I don't think Bloom's deck is strong enough.

vs Darkness. Take whatever.

vs Earth. I would upgrade two more pillars instead of the Light Dragons.

vs Life. DD's deck is awesome.

vs Gravity. Momentum and Chargers are a problem for Wings, but otherwise Bloom's deck looks good.

vs Light. Not sure.

These are good ideas:
Against  :fire, how about the OE/Bonewall deck?  That takes care of Fractix or Cremation/Nova rushes.  Firestall is still a problem, but I feel like  :fire will use that against team  :time (assuming creature spam or Dune Scorp stall/something).

Ironically, against  :time I feel that bringing the RT's/Eternity would help?  We only have 3~, but they could work against Dune Scorps, Pharoahs, Novabows, and we can use the  :time quanta against Ghostmare.
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Offline TuckingFypo

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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg415390#msg415390
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 12:00:00 am »
Against  :earth, I agree with Legit.  I think an upped Aether Pillar and Aether Pend would be best.

Against  :darkness, heh, I get to play a Novabow again?  :P  I'm guessing it would work great against Devtal but what if they play Ghostmare with RT's?

Against  :fire, how about the OE/Bonewall deck?  That takes care of Fractix or Cremation/Nova rushes.  Firestall is still a problem, but I feel like  :fire will use that against team  :time (assuming creature spam or Dune Scorp stall/something).

Ironically, against  :time I feel that bringing the RT's/Eternity would help?  We only have 3~, but they could work against Dune Scorps, Pharoahs, Novabows, and we can use the  :time quanta against Ghostmare.
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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg415468#msg415468
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 04:15:53 am »
And to think that I was going to edit it once more to remove that fog for another wings..  ;)


Pillars v Light Dragons. My logic here was that if we were to end up against the massive stone skin miracle stall, we would want to maximise damage as much as possible. Maybe some testing should be done here, to see whether the extra 2 damage really makes a difference. (Faster fireflies is always good against other opponents though)

Ghostmare is always a pain. Graboids can be left unburrowed until the kill, and the great thing about novas is you can keep them so you always have something to discard. Our only other creatures are Wyrms (cheap ish) and Dragons (can be saved for last blow). Not the greatest matchup, but possible with a little luck.

Blooms deck is solid, and we can take a variation of that against gravity. Wings, we can't take, there is only 1 left in vault after other decks. Fog shields can be put in, as well as a few more creatures so its less likely to get outrushed (That gravity bow is fcking fast!). Not sure about the shockwaves... BC regretted having them before, unless they play Otyugh, I don't imagine they will be that useful tbh.

Duo time against time is an awesome idea. If we want, we can grab another eternity for the deck (losing the second nightmare isn't a huge loss and I could see that card winning games against Pharaohs (maybe flown, damn deflags). And yeah, they might not nightmare us once they realise, but that in itself is a huge bonus :)

OE Bonewall vs Fire also seems a decent choice. We are against a Liutenant here, but Firestall can be played just as easily without one, so..



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+ Eternity (and flying weapon). Just lose a nightmare from the salvages (one is a great number to throw into anything anyway)

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- all wings, + more damage and quanta for fire

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These are just my takes (never been the best deckbuilder on the planet honestly) And yeah, the other decks need a little revising. Unless anything else is brought up (like new data from testing or other ideas), I think the only things we're thinking are the pillars/pends vs light dragons and whether to add the extra maxwells to the entropy deck.

Offline TuckingFypo

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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg415492#msg415492
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2011, 06:30:05 am »
Hmm, having technical difficulties with the Vault right now.  If someone would double-check that'd be great.  I could have put the decks in incorrectly (Order is weird from Round 2, PM'ed the Warmasters, reply pending; but the vault also says we don't have cards which are clearly in our vault already which I have no clue what to do about) but something the Vault has said and I just checked and am sure of is that

1) we don't have enough FW's.  For this, we can either find a new deck against  :fire (I'm personally against this though), redesign the rest of the decks a bit, or salvage FW's instead of Poisons from  :death (personally for this one, we could win the poisons back from  :entropy for example).  That and
2) WE NEED 17 MORE PENDS!

I think we can either redesign most of our decks or we can convert another 17 cards.

This is sort of bad, because we already converted 11 cards.  Changing out 4 cards from 8 decks shouldn't be too bad though.

But what 13 cards should we convert?
Looking at our current vault, I would do something like 1 Cloak, 1 Vamp Stiletto, 2 Steals, and...what else do we not need in the long run?  :-\

Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg415500#msg415500
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2011, 06:45:16 am »
Okay, that isn't great. The good news is that most teams are feeling this much worse than us, and that most of these issues are easily resolved/technical problems.

We are short of 2 Flying Weapons - In theory we could take one from the entropy deck and one from the time one, but yeah, I feel inclined to just grab two more and leave the poison counterparts.

I think we are also short one antimatter - but the Deck compliance isn't showing that for some reason. (No idea).


Cards that we can almost definitely convert
Cloak

Cards that we can possibly convert
Lightning
Nightmare
Vampire Stilletto (we have 3, and they are never truly /necessary/)
Steal (Only up to 2 IMO)
Nightmare
Basilisk Blood
Momentum
Liquid Shadow

Of course, a lot of these are the little splash cards we throw in our rainbows. Getting rid of all of them would make the deck build completely useless.


Deck Edits:
The grabbow can live without the OE. Throw in the nighmare instead I think.. (We can -1 salvage of OE, grab us a pillar :) )






Okay, the vault issues should be fixed. That is, the issues with being confusing and such. We still have the issues of the missing cards
(missing 18 pendulums apparently, 2 Flying weapons, 1 wind pillar and 1 antimatter too much. Working with the salvage/discard/conversion, I'm sure we can fix this without too much trouble)




What needs to be done at this point
Final decks should be posted together. This means fixing any mistakes I may have made, considering vault issues and substituting cards(lesser importance), and which cards to upgrade. Then this can go into the vault (prefferably 12 or so hours before the deadline, earlier too if possible) so that we can play around with the final numbers of the discard conversions to get every single deck we want to play ready and onto the field for this round.


http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32737.0.html  is the conversion topic.

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Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg415934#msg415934
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2011, 06:44:13 am »
First off, has anyone PM'ed the Warmasters our Event card yet?  If no one responds within seven hours I can do that before I go to school in the morning.

Here I guess are our decks for this Round, in no particular order.  I made a few changes in the decks so we have enough pendulums and what not.  Probably not the smartest changes, if someone'd look over things that'd be great.
 :entropy  Robotocracy vs. Rush6
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 :darkness  TuckingFypo vs. Onizuka | Took out a BB for Nightmare.  Seems a bit silly but it COULD help and at the moment I can't find anything else.
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 :life  Legit vs. Lt. ak65ala | Took out an Air Pend for Shockwave.  Again looks stupid but ehh...
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 :earth  Gen. DrunkDestroyer vs. Lt. Mithcarion
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 :light  Lt. Pervepic vs. Spielkind
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 :time  BatCountry vs. inthisroom
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 :gravity  Bloom vs. Puppychow | Took out an Air Pend for another Deflag.
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 :fire  Plastique vs. Lt. Antagon | Took out an Air Pend for the Bone Pillar.
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The Warmasters replied to my other PM already but I still have no clue what order the decks go in; I'm assuming it's the order from Round 2 since that's the one that fits.  Shouldn't it be based off of this one (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31919.0.html) though?

And, Vault is now tech-problemy-something free!

Re: Round 3 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32819.msg415957#msg415957
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2011, 09:22:32 am »
Yep, just sent 'Rush' to kevkev. If we earn an extra 3 cards in any game, I'm not complaining.

Remember to screenshot the end screen if you win fast enough! (Must be turn 12 or under)
BB for Nightmare is not silly at all, Nightmares rock. Just check their quanta when nightmaring a creature, if they are duoing earth or air... (bear discord in mind too - will probably keep shriekers ever out of playing range, but wyrms are nasty too)

The air pendulum losses probably make the decks a little less efficient, not sure what else I would put in. (The lone shockwave does seem very strange though, not sure whether it should be there or not honestly. Rest seem all right to me)


The other thing is important for Robotocracy - this is the deck you want to use! (-1 Fog, +1 Wings)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5i4 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5od 5od 5od 5od 5od 5ol 5oo 5oo 5oo 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 7mu 7mv 7n5 8pp


I just put that in the Vault, so that's cool.
(Also, leave the vault like this for this round. From next round we will start using the order shown there to simplify things for when the order starts to matter)



May or may not be back in time for the deadline. If any brainwaves come, go ahead and make the change. If you want to post the date and time of your games here too, go for it, and Good luck to everyone! (who can see this text)

 

anything
blarg: Bloom,DrunkDestroyer,Legit,TuckingFypo