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Offline justaburdTopic starter

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Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037292#msg1037292
« on: January 31, 2013, 05:39:34 pm »
:water Regypticvs:air Jen-i
:darkness ji412jovs:air Gen. kev
:gravity neurolepticsvs:air elbirn
:air Bloomvs:light zso_zso
:air Annamallvs:entropy Anthraxx
:time Chapuzvs:air justaburd

Deckbuilding: Duel phase has started
Duels: Fighting ends!

Notes:
The ability of the Strategist is changed and is now a Saboteur.  She cannot use the 6-card "sideboard" this round.
If victorious, the Saboteur's team may name up to three cards by the end of the duel phase (they need not be different).  The losing team must include those three cards in the discards from that deck OR discard 3 other cards from that deck for each one saved.
For instance, if Dagger x3 were the named cards from the losing deck, then the choices for discards are 15 (includes 3 Daggers), 17 (includes 2 Daggers), 19 (includes 1 Dagger), or 21 (keeping all Daggers).


(note from kev, copypasta :P)
We'll use this topic (and chat) to discuss who should take which deck with what build, etc.  As I said in the Deck Ideas thread, you are ultimately responsible for your deck choice each round.  I will not be choosing your deck for you (though I hope you'll listen to the opinions of your teammates and I  ;D).  Part of deckbuilding is choosing roles for each player.  It makes more sense to include who should be Lt for the round as a part of the deckbuilding discussion as the Lt gets three extra ups.  Likewise, we have a decision to make each round on whether to make use of the Berserker ability, etc.  In future rounds we will also need to discuss s/d/c/p.  All of these discussions occur concurrently, and we'll use a thread like this as well as chat to facilitate the discussion.

Spoiler for Member roles reminders:
General - uses nine ups
- Lieutenant - uses six ups
- Strategist - may remove up to six cards from his deck before each duel. Each duel must have a legal deck, and his full deck must also be legal.
- Berserker - discard 1, 2 or 3 cards from the Vault during deckbuilding. The Berserker may use 1, 3 or 4 extra upgrades respectively.
- Quartermaster - if the Quartermaster plays in a battle, each winner from their team may claim 1 card from their element by relinquishing 3 of their salvage, or 2 salvage if the Quartermaster wins. Limit of two cards per person. Teams may not claim cards they already have at least 6 copies of.
- Standard Bearer - salvages N more cards and discards N fewer cards, where N is the number of wins their team has had that round.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 05:45:26 pm by justaburd »
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Offline justaburdTopic starter

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037294#msg1037294
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 05:44:58 pm »
Hey look at how many people we're facing again this round! (or teams for some I guess...)

vs :water We brought shadow dragons last time. Deja vu them?
vs :darkness We brought the sancstall last time. Deja vu them?
vs :gravity We brought the grabbow last time. Deja vu them?
vs :time We brought bonebolt last time. Deja vu them?

vs :light Didn't face them yet, but they used a lot of healing last round. Possibly UG? Might be a two edged sword if they use mirror shield.
I don't think they'll use RoL hope since tstorm could stomp it really easily.

vs :entropy something crazy? I'll run some sims on entropy decks to give us an idea of what we might want to take.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 07:12:29 pm by justaburd »
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Offline Jen-i

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037397#msg1037397
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 11:09:34 pm »
Just cause the table is helpful for me

Element
:water
vs:life:earth:fire:death:aether
:darkness
vs:life:earth:fire:entropy:aether
:gravity
vs:life:fire:entropy:light:time
:light
vs:life:earth:death:gravity:time
:entropy
vs:life:death:gravity:aether:darkness
:time
vs:earth:fire:death:gravity:light

Light
I can see a possibility of them running an Immortal like deck against us - they are probably going to want to avoid it in the :time and :earth match ups - I'd recommend running Fractal Dragons or another break deck here

I'll comment more later - got nothing else intelligent to add right now
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Offline AnnaMall

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037420#msg1037420
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2013, 12:49:46 am »
Entropy queswork
They play vs 
:death fractal gons
:life             
:aether pandebonium
:gravity discake
:darkness bow

That leaves defl or steal duo. They showed those 2 decks as creature heavy rushes with little if any CC and splash PC. Also those 2 decks test very bad against all our current decks. Also the fact that we are considered heavy perm team forces me to expect one such deck. As for hidden stuff probably one or 2 DBH/discake, an entropy firestall.

What gives us some good chances vs something like that is hurrican domin, even though it xenotests horribadly (believe AI is bad at ability targeting and timming, also spams creatures before using abilities)

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5ib 5ib 5ib 5ib 5ie 5ie 5ie 5ie 5og 5ol 5on 5on 5on 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 7mu 7mu 7mu 8pp


A deck like this is what I am thinking atm. Probably a bit more overpillared to account for disco. What you guys think? Also suggestions plz on hidden stuff...
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 12:56:45 am by AnnaMall »

Offline kev

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037632#msg1037632
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2013, 07:49:33 pm »
As a preface, I generally don’t like sending the same decks round after round.  While prepping for R1, opponents look at decks used by Team Air in previous Wars but nobody is really sure what to expect.  At this point, opponents have seen six decks and about 2/3 of our vault, and that’s what they’ll build against.

With that in mind it won’t be surprising that I definitely don’t like sending the same deck against the same opponent twice in a row.  Opponents will build against the six decks they’ve seen but if we’ve already sent one against an opponent it often becomes a 50% probability in their head: either we’ll send it again or we won’t. :D



:water Regyptic – When we’re facing the same elements as last round and we didn’t use my previous recommendation, my job is easy.  :)  I recommended our grabbow cuz maj is scared of our perms and is likely to take something stall-breaky with PC.  They sent their dark duo elsewhere last round and sent us flying titans instead.  Props to Burd for picking the right deck and giving Water their only loss.  Lt grabbow continues to be my recommendation, though.

:gravity neuroleptics – Ugh.  They sent a really good mix of decks last round and assuming Jen is right about them having more DBH in vault they have an even better mix.  The only PC they used last round was against us; they didn’t even throw an explosion in their 36-card grabbow!  I strongly suspect they won’t use the same earth duo, so I recommend we go perm-heavy.  Let’s show them how real men make Flying Titans (i.e. real men don’t need to up their AWs).  Including a couple Wings to protect against DBH (and mercs, stone golems, grabbys, etc.) would be money.

:time Chapuz – I like Dimfractalagon here.  I think Time will look harder at our decks used last round and try to put us on one, and we didn’t use many perms last round.  PC/momentum/direct damage is less likely here than elsewhere.  Burst damage counters RT and especially Eternity.

:darkness ji412jo – everything I said last round, +1.  The fact that they haven’t seen Hurricane yet is just icing on the cake.

:light zso_zso – I might be underthinking this, but PU dragons looks too good to not bring against us.  I sorta wanna salvage DBH and play it here.  This would wreck havoc:
Spoiler for Hidden:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vl 4vl 4vl 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55v 55v 55v 55v 55v 55v 5oc 5oc 5oc 5od 5od 5of 5of 5of 5of 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 6u5 7mt 7mt 8pj
Yes, I’m serious.  Assuming you all hate that, I would recommend either Dim Fractalagons or Flying Titans, if either is available. Both are stall breakers that can be quick if needed.  If you go Dim Fractalagons, using the Str ability to sub in Silences is wise to prevent Miracle, dim chaining, and the like.

:entropy Anthraxx – I'm looking through maul’s Entropy writeup and I have to agree: I’m not sure what to make of their R1.  Looking at what they sent, what they won with, what we sent, what we won with, and what I know of Cali, I feel like a mono Entropy rush is on its way.  I like Bonair here.

Offline AnnaMall

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037708#msg1037708
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 12:02:42 am »
Since I might not get a chance to do much more work...here are my thuoghts on entropy.
Basically expect a creature based rush with or without PC or a hidden entropy/fire stall

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5lm 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5og 5og 5og 5oh 5oh 5oh 5oh 5oh 5oh 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 5on 5on 5on 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 7k2 7k2 7k2 8pq


Lightstall is consistent in beating everything entropy showed even the 5 defl gen deck. Loses hands down to entropy/fire stall, havent tested but pretty sure it beats any kind of DBH they bring. If we use this go +2-3 cards

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5of 5of 5of 5of 5og 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 622 622 622 622 624 624 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 8pu


This one can pretty much compete vs anything, but with very slight advantage for comfort. Disco often leads this to lose by a turn and silences did not seem that usefull in testing, so maybe -silence +fog/wings?

Offline Jen-i

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037852#msg1037852
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 03:17:02 pm »
:entropy Anthraxx - Light Stall seems to be Mall's preference - and its tough to make heads or tails of their vault from their decks last round.

:light Zso_zso - I'd suggest some version of Dim Fractal Dragons - Fractal Breaks their stalls, Dim should break everything else. (I'd make this the Lt. deck 6 Damsels is far superior to 3+3 Dragonflies)

:darkness ji412jo - Either Hurricane or our Grabbow. Hurricane deals well with any creature attack they run and avoids their PC, but is dead against Pestal, Grabbow is vunerable to Steal (UG doesn't like it) but handles Pestal fairly well.

:gravity neuroleptics - Hurricane deals nicely with a range of their decks, outrushing what it can't control. Shadow Dragons could also be effective - if we face DBH stealing Discord is so much fun. (kev's suggestion of Flying Titans could work too)

:time Chapuz - Avoiding RT will be important - I see them either running a nova-bow with purify or a water duo. I'd suggest either running Shadow Dragons or the Two Nymph deck (Note I haven't tested either, just a preliminary feeling)

:water Regyptic - kev's suggestion of grabbow worked well in testing against some of their decks from last round. My fear is that it runs into a control deck, but I historically have had a difficult time mindgating majofa, my original leaning was Two Nymphs - it still works in testing but suffers somewhat from the same vulnerability.

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Offline kev

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037880#msg1037880
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 05:53:35 pm »
I've been in every War in a variety of roles, and I can say with certainty that our success as a team depends on our ability to communicate.  Hearing a variety of perspectives on my matchup will help me decide on my deck and might give me guidance on how to play it.  I assembled a team of vets rather than going the 1-bid-per-player route for this very reason.  I know it can be difficult to find time during some rounds; just do your best.  At the very least, I hope each of you can find time to say "I'm super busy this round and won't be able to contribute matchup thoughts much at all, but I'll be back on to select my deck after hearing thoughts from everyone."

Two days left on the clock.  We need at least a day to make sure no two players are taking the same deck, finalize roles, decide upon sdcp, and update the Gdoc.  Actually we should really have more than a day for that; next round we'll be better.  For this round, if you haven't already done so, please share your thoughts on all matchups and select a deck for yourself.  ASAP.

Update
maul: strongly leaning towards Light Stall
kev: leaning towards Hurricane
Jen: deciding between Grabbow and Two Nymphs
Burd: leaned towards Bonair shortly after matchups were released; I haven't heard an update since
Bloom and El: no indication yet :(

Offline Elbirn

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037938#msg1037938
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 09:16:51 pm »
I apologize for recent quietness, been kept busy, and what ever time I spent thinking about this matchup, I generally kept my thoughts in mah head. :P

Anyhoo, just thinking about my own matchup against Neuroleptics/:gravity.

I'm not feeling the grabbow. Probably just because of the loss with it last round, but I'm feeling bad vibes from that. Which is fine, since Jen is considering grabbys.
Light stall would be nice, I'd love to watch it shut down their disco/blackhole...But I do believe maul wants light stall, and for good reasons. So that's out.
I feel like hurricane is a good option here.
Flying titans is also a nice candidate, and as Jen mentioned, Shadow dragons.
Bonair = a definite no from me.

TL;DR version. I like Light Stall, Hurricane, Shadow Dragons and Flying Titans. In other words, I have no idea. The only thing I'm sure of is that these options our better than the other decks we have available. :P

Now, since Light Stall and Hurricane are being considered by others for their matchup, it really just leaves Shadow Dragons or Flying Titans. Any thoughts?
(Also, I'd like to note now that gravy shield would block air dragons. I wouldn't like to run into that.)
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Offline AnnaMall

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037955#msg1037955
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2013, 10:42:10 pm »
I think Jen mentioned something about bow being PC succeptible, I would like to point ou that the UGs are interchangable with dragons with a bit of Q fixing or even nymphs.

Also something else to consider....RT splash vs  :gravity

As for my match I feel very confident for lightstall BUT I will not be surprised to see entropy/firestal sent to us. Need to do some opponents opponent testing to see how probable (I need more  :time)


If this is the last you hear from me before deadline, plz take a pick out of the 2 in my previous post.

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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1037979#msg1037979
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2013, 11:33:54 pm »
First off I can't apologize enough for my inactivity. Second off, this is my collaboration of what I've pieced together from your posts.

:gravity - In our last rounds match against them, hurricane would have completely shut down what they brought. As good of a counter RT is against  :gravity, Freeze/SW is equally if not more effective against their bulky creatures.

:darkness - My mindgating tells me they aren't going to bring pestal against us, but taking Grabbow gives us a soft counter in case they do. They would need to bring a variety of CC or Duck Shield.

:entropy - I'm not sure what I can add here, light stall seems to be the way we're leaning. Kinda predictable imo.

:water Catatitans

:time Shadow Dragons

:light I think Dimfractalagons is the way to go for me. I'll put in some testing tomorrow morning.

I haven't done any testing, these are just preliminary thoughts.
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Re: Round 2 deck discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46441.msg1038026#msg1038026
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 03:03:23 am »
Sorry I've been a little less prolific than usual - been a busy RL weekend.

Here's my deck for the round.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5f6 5f6 5f6 5f6 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5of 5of 5of 5on 5on 5on 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5p0 5p0 7ms 7ms 7n5 8po
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blarg: Regyptic,ji412jo,kev,neuroleptics,elbirn,Bloom,zso_zso,Annamall,Anthraxx,Chapuz,justaburd