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Offline AfdarentyTopic starter

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Pad Archive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65043.msg1269788#msg1269788
« on: October 18, 2017, 03:42:19 pm »
If you delete anything major from the pad, save a copy here - you never know if we'll want it later!

Spoiler for Vaultbuilding Stuff:
Have a deck you'd like to see in the vault? Post it below!I've posted a few already, will add deck codes once I have time.

Grabbow -- http://dek.im/d/4vhz54vjz3590z45ocz15olz17dmz47mtz27muz180a8pm
Hands down, the best deck in War 10. None of the top teams could reliably beat it. Very flexible. Unfortunately, also very expensive. Possibly worth only putting enough Grabbow cards in vault such that we can salvage a full copy after only one win against Grabbow. I like the salvage to full idea... especially given the cost of Grabboids (200)

Sanc Stall - http://dek.im/d/z35lc5lgz15liz55lmz25ogz25olz85puz37oez57q98pq
Pretty good vs Darkness. Bring 5. Oh, and Entropy too. Adds another dimension to the vault. Obviously don't play Holy Light vs Elements not starting with D. hehe... a great deck that did  well. I'd say definitely include this. 2K just for the non-air cards, but it's worth it imo, since it's our best vs. Darkness.

SoP Squid - http://dek.im/d/5i4z55ibz35j25jmz45onz45pu7gk7i6z57mt8pp
Fills a niche in that teams that struggle against Wings are often terrible at dealing with both the Squid and the Wings at the same time - hard to fit enough CC and PC into the same deck. On the down side, it's a relatively weak deck against the stronger teams and extremely expensive this War. Also, it can have draws without nearly enough Water quanta - weak to PC on Water Pillars. Might be tough to salvage if we don't get it early, but I'd put a bunch of our other decks before this one. yikes, the Sopa is what kills 1860 off element for this deck. Likely worth it, but what to trade off?

Dark Duo - http://dek.im/d/z35ocz45ofz35oo5opz45puz35upz57mtz17tb8pt
Rivals Grabbow and Mono for the most flexible deck Air has. Extremely strong deck, good vs every Element. Definitely bring one, maybe two. Yeah, 2 would be awesome if we can afford it.  2 copies of the Darkness cards = 1600; this is totally worth it imo.

Nymphs - Duo http://dek.im/d/4srz25f6z65ocz15olz45onz15p0z57mtz37mu8po
Nymphs - NoNy http://dek.im/d/z14srz34vjz15f6z15ocz45p0z177lz87msz17q4z180a8po
Apart from ProBacon, we all have a good collection of Nymphs (assuming you'll use some codes on them, phoenix - if not, totally fine). They're a very good way for us to deal with Sundials, which we otherwise struggle against, and Nova Nymphs is an extremely flexible deck - notably good vs Darkness. Last War we mostly used them to bully Time, then transitioned into playing more of them late War when teams had ran out of Reflects and we had ran out of Wyrms/Dragons.  These are both really good decks and worth the cost.
Desparate Nymph deck (i.e. we're out of other good stuff  - but gets a point for using fireflies!):
http://dek.im/d/4srz45oc5olz25ooz25p0z45puz57mtz57n48pr


SoFr Mono  - http://dek.im/d/z35ocz15ofz15ogz15olz55paz35puz57mtz37mu8pr
Ludicrously expensive. Free wins vs Aether, though, and by far our most effective method of dealing with Bonewall. Weirdly, it's about as expensive to pick up 6 SoFr as it is to put a copy of Catatitans in the vault. Speaking of which...yeah... this is a tough call.

Catatitans  - http://dek.im/d/z155kz555sz3561z2576z55oiz15puz27n0z37oe8pr
Weirdly expensive this War. Good at what it does, i.e. stomping slow decks. Struggles greatly against rush decks and healing, along with PC to an extent. Might be worth picking up one - might be smarter to take another set of SoFr instead. I'll crunch some numbers.

Adrenastaves  - http://dek.im/d/z55c5z15c7z55oiz85puz37anz27n77oe8pn
Another deck that is just excellent at what it does. Stops rush decks in their tracks, most notably Grabbow and Dark Domins. Bad vs Shields, unless we tech in some SoFr. It'll spend a lot of rounds just sitting in the vault, I'd imagine, but people have to be scared of it and we'll always find a use for it.

SoW Wyrms - http://dek.im/d/z25oczA5pu61qz3621z262mz47muz28168pu
Nothing beats slow decks without Reflective Shields quite as well as this does. They simply have no way to interact with it. Minus points for struggling greatly against rush decks with some CC, but it can race fairly well if we can ignore Quint and with good prediction this deck is great. Minus points for having similar (but often worse) match ups to SoFr - it might be smarter to grab more SoFr than another copy of this, but SoW and Quint are quite cheap this War and we'll want to grab a couple Bolts anyway. Yeah, I think for the cost this is absolutely worth it.

Damseltal Blitz - http://dek.im/d/z25opz15puz961oz3622z57mt7muz38098pu
Just a suggestion for now - this is a variant of a deck I've sometimes played in league. Strengths - Fast (recorded TTW of 6.4 over 40 games), good against dials, SoSac and healing because of its high burst potential, and stalls in general. Also doesn't care about CC as much because of Balltal Blitz burst. Weaknesses - Weak to most shields (Fog, Dusk, Dims) though it still has good OTK potential between dims chain. Not as consistent as monos, weak to certain forms of denial (Discord, EQ). About as expensive as catatitans, and this particular version requires merc boost. Against other players this probably won't do too well against Dials / SoSac - people can predict when the burst will happen and block it anyway. Really like this deck, though - used it in CL a few times

Some thoughts on decks to test/create/bring.
As I was looking at vault prices earlier, I think that we might expect more shard golems this War. Ironically Aether had one of the more successful builds of this in the early stages last war, but I'd be very surprised if Earth and other elements didn't start bringing more of these given how cheaply these can be built and how powerful/adaptable the deck is. I know we'll have some dials for our sancstall, but it may be worth packing a few more in case my hunch is correct. RT could also be good here (unless they go for immortal golems). Nova Nymphs was a great answer to Shard Golems last War - our Dark Duo / Grabbow do very well too. RT duo scares me - every War I've been Gen we put it in the vault, every time it sat there doing nothing, played it once, lost, discarded it : / No PC is tough. Yeah, that's probably the right call and certainly what happened last War. 

Aether should have beaten our SoFree mono with their Fractix + deflag last war... I only won the match from sheer luck. I think they might bring that again, but I'd also suspect some of the teams that we brought rushes to pretty consistently might start adding in a SoSac splash to a rush of their own. We can hopefully burst around that most of the time, but if the rushes are close, this could be tough. The good news is that if teams bring SoSac, they mostly won't bring PC - we can play it slow with Fog + OE. Will be tough until we know which teams have it as an option, though.

thanks for all of your work on this guys!

Offline AfdarentyTopic starter

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Re: Pad Archive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65043.msg1271483#msg1271483
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 11:39:47 pm »
Spoiler for Round 1 to Round 5 Stuff:
Round 5 prep

Gen. Afdarenty vs Entropy (Ryli) 3-0
Entropy also faces: Darkness, Earth, Water
They have plenty of threats and are looking strong. Their grabbows are really good, both the version with denial (DBH) and Pulvy. Mono is strong and flexible enough to beat a lot of decks - AM, Dissipation, upped Pandemoniums (which they've played once in mono - might try it vs us). DBH, CP Psions, and Pdials are all possible threats too. They've played a couple of stalls - one with siphons and SoVs, one with firebolts.
Brought Grabbow both times last war, but they are mixing it up this year.
Let's see... their stalls are weak to nymphs, SoFr, and SoW Wyrms, so it seems unlikely they'll send one. Pdials should be favored vs everything except nymphs and sancstall (which we don't have, but they don't know that for sure). Still worth testing against SoW Wyrms and grabbow. Their bows and DBH should beat all our slower decks - nymphs, SoW Wyrms, SoFr - and be unfavored vs shock mono/dark duo? Wings is pretty good, but they lost to it last time so they might bring Pulvy grabbow, or pack 2 explosions.
Their mono does well against shocks, but maybe not vs wings/OE? Discord and AMs are annoying, need to test this.
Alternatively they could bring something completely new - pandebonium?
Rough testing tables based on guesswork: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17gDQ7HsNiTBv6gVX5IztQTwto0ng_RNZxwXYIR4bPnY/edit#gid=0
I should be relatively free the next 2-3 days so I can do some testing. Can you guys post some decklists to test? I'm too lazy to look up stuff.
Nova Nymphs
Salvage possible: 6 BW, 6 dials, 3 lightning, vagger,  (6 AM, 6 nova, 6 Pande)
Love the BWs - I think we def. take some of those (4 seems reasonable?). maybe also 2 Lightning to have support for 2 Grabbows? we have enough in vault at this point to run two. Our grabbow is seriously OP.  :)   Given the BW salvage from death, we could go:
3 lightning and 3 nova (or 3 dials)



phoenix1211 vs Light (darklacerta9505) 3-0
Light also faces: Death, Fire, Gravity
They've probably lost a lot of their decks by this point, so we have a decent chance of predicting them by looking at their past rounds. Their strongest decks are probably Firestall, Immortal, Dark duo, and Grabbow - not sure how much of these they have remaining, since they've lost with all of them at some point.
jijo isn't around anymore, which means they're much weaker as a team. I think they prepared a deck for us before War started, though, so if they still have it they'll probably play it. Just not sure what it is... Something with Dials?
Maybe Dark duo here... NM could help mitigate the dials chain, though a deflag splash would also work well. jijo is back... not sure if that means anything in regards to this matchup.
Remaining strong decks: Grabbow, Dark duo (saders/archangels), SoW Glories, Firestall? Possibly pdials/random sundials decks. If they play firestall at all, it'll be either against death or us. But idk.
Salvage possible: 6 dials, 2 miracle, 2 glories, 6 bolts.
Those miracles sounds great...  could pick up some spare dials, or maybe discard tokens for the rest of it?
2 Miracles, 3 discard tokens or 4 dials pull the miracles from the earth match maybe... could go 5 discard tokens here unless we want more dials or miracles.



ProBacon vs Death (blrawen) 3-2!
Death also faces: Aether, Light, Water
Another tricky opponent - Bonewalls are annoying (and they'll consider bringing them after they lost to our dark duo), and SoFr isn't great because of the threat of their mono and grabbow. Wings is really good vs them, though they can play a poison-heavy mono and dragons to counter it somewhat. (They banned wings last time they played against us so they definitely have it in mind). RT Mummies is another threat, need to do some testing against it. They've also shown a SoD Sancstall with plagues and skull shield. Other possible threats - Dim PUgons, Bloodsucker Nymph BW duo.
I'm at least fairly sure SoFr beats their Grabbow and Mono.
SoFree to death sounds good and could hop the BW threat. I like it. Feels predictable as hell after banning BW R2. yeah a little bit, but what other options do you think they have?
Salvage possibilities: 5 BW, 2 arse, 6 bolts, 1 fahren, 4 storms.
5 BW, 1 Arsenic


trashduke vs Earth (Gen. Blacksmith) 3-0
Earth also faces: Entropy, Fire, Time
love wings here; actually the Wise Wyrms Sideboard we brought to Darkness might be good here. I'm predicting nymphs and BB with another rushier module.
I'm always a little wary of Immortal from them
Yeah.... it's true, but I think the majority of our rushes would beat that. If that's the worry, we could run deflag splash on a rush. 
Salvage possibilities: 6 dials, 6 miracles, 6 SoDiv, 2 reflective, (6 SS, 2 Tit Shields)
2 Miracles, 2 reflective, 2 SoDiv (or 2 dials)


===================================
Round 4 prep
Afdarenty vs Aether (godofdeath500)
Aether also faces: Entropy, Earth, Light
Can we go grabbow here to stop their bitching?
I think we should use SoFree just to piss them off more >:3
I would've liked going stall if we weren't going SoFr but grabbow seems risky against lightnings/dims/bonebolt.
Decks from them: Stall, SoI, fractix, dims mono, fast mono
Discard: Save 5 cards from: 3 deflag, 3 wings, 1 OE, 3 nymphs, 4 wyrms, 6 damsels.



ProBacon vs Gravity (killsdazombies)
Bacon 1-3 KDZ*
Gravity also faces: Entropy, Fire, Water
Well, they had a Shock Dark Duo counter and it lost. Not sure what that means for them - I think they'll still try to counter it, I just don't know with what.
Something like this worked very well last year:
http://dek.im/d/4srz34vjz25giz25ocz25onz35p0z35pu74d77l7msz17n57oez180a8pr
Oh, but nvm, bacon might not have the nymphs. And it would be tough vs. guardtal anyway...
*Looks at mark* *Looks at Nymphs* *Starts laughing which decends into crying*
Threats - DBH (not sure how it does vs dark duo), Adrenastaves (weak to OE, but decent if they expect shocks + dagger),  dark duo, BB Gravity Shield Stall? Their Grabbow and Swallow are both weak to dark duo, I think. Mono, Guardtal, Catatitans are all possible, though they're also weak to dark duo. Something weird like GP dolls (it's actually pretty good vs anything that's not SoFr or stall)? Overall, not sure what to expect vs them.
They lost 3 matches last round - with dim guardtal, mono, and nova swallow, so they'd have to discard a fair bit, does that help us predict anything?
Not expecting a repeat of the last round, the loss of cards and the fact is got rekt, I don't see them trying for redemption.
I like grabbow here...

Discard - we save 6 cards from:
3 Steal, 3 Vagger, 2 NM, 3 dragons, 2 Wings, 2 Wyrms and 6 Damsels.
We can salvage back 2 steal, 2 vagger and 1 NM from Darkness this round, that helps if we want to try to keep 2 Dark duos, otherwise we do have another one in vault.




phoenix1211 vs Darkness (DoctorC)
Darkness also faces: Water, Time, Light
1-3 loss with mono devs in R1
I like banning Devs and then bringing SoWyrms.

Threats - Mono devs, Dark NT, Siphon stalls (they've played AM Pande so far, no sancs yet), Drainbolt, devtal, Grabbow/trapbow (they lost with grabbow in R3, so not sure if they have enough cards to muster a 2nd), SoP? (they lost with SoP too in round 2, but only 9 discards, so they probably still have 4 SoP and 3-4 squids). Keep in mind they have one of the smallest vaults too, so that grabbow loss probably hurts them a lot.
Salvage: 2 Vagger, 2 steal, 1 NM, 6 NTs
Could be worth getting a NT deck, but the dark salvage would help our Gravy loss.


trashduke vs Time (Naii_the_Baf) 3-0
Time also faces: Death, Light, Darkness
Hey, we have Nymphs again (maybe). If they have a counter expect that.
Not sure if they have an obvious counter, I tested a bit and plus they did ban Nymph in R1. Needs more testing. I'm cool with Nymphs here, seems predictable, but not sure what else is worth considering.
If we're confident here, we could go with alchemist boost, it's pretty good to transmute discard tokens (for 4 dust, and one full salvage should give us 25-30 dust, so we can save 6-7 cards from being discarded, which is pretty good if the salvage is meh). Slightly risky though, as nymphs still seems overly predictable to me.
They really don't have a counter to nymphs... poor time.
SALVAGE: Our transmute possibilities are: 2 Arse, 4 BW, 6 dials, 6 poison, 2 Hourglass
First, I do think that those BWs look tempting, but we did bring Alchemist here, so if we want to transmute, Sundials are in the max category, so would give us 30 total dust.
So we could get 2 SoFree (22) and still have 8 dust leftover for a Nymph/Fog/Wings/OE - that's a pretty sweet haul (like transmuting last war). The math is perfect and that feels like the right call... but I do covet those BWs... sigh. Or as Phoenix pointed out, we can get discard tokens this round which will save us in a pinch.
5 discard tokens and 2 BWs sounds good to me. 
7 discard tokens #savethosenymphsandshards








===================================

Round 3 decks and results:

Marked cards list: http://dek.im/d/4vl4vp52r58v5905f45f65j25oo5rk5rp5us61q61t622

Gen. Afdarenty vs. Life (Spielkind)  3-2 - So, so close
Our deck: (Grabbow) http://dek.im/d/4sr4sr4vh4vj4vj4vj4vj4vj4vj5905905905905oc5oc7dm7dm7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mu7mu7mu7n57n580a80a8pm
Marked cards visible: None
No Dims/Fractal/Lightning/Graboids/Sundials/Firebolt/Deflagration from them. Slightly worried about adrenastaves here, though we do have 2x OE and 2x lightnings. No sundial/pandemonium so a stall seems unlikely, and no firebolt means no firestall. Wonder if they just do a mono-rush, in which case we should be fine, especially with ups advantage.
Salvage possible: 3 steal, 1 NM, 5 AW, 5 Staves, 5 adren, 2 Jades,
If we want to transmute, Steals and NM would give 4 dust each, the rest of the cards only give 3 dust, so only worth it if the numbers are close. 
Might depend on what we need next round.  Sky blitz and T-storm are the cheapest to salvage back.
Not sure if it's worth salvaging more cards for our dark duo, we already have 2 full sets. Hmm... if we salvage some of the adrenastaves deck here, does that allow us to save our adrenastaves deck if we lose with it the future? We currently have 6 staves, 7 adren, 7 fw in vault. So yeah if we lose with adrenastaves we just lose the deck, so probably not worth keeping extra adrenastaves cards. Unless we just keep it as vault fodder. Transmuting gives us 22 dust total, which is 3 TStorms (but TStorms are kinda meh without bonewall), or 2 fog/OE, or 1 SoFr + 1 TStorm, or 1 SoFr + salvage 2 cards from above. All kinda meh options, not sure how much 6 extra fodder is worth vs 2 useful cards.
What about 1 FFQ, 1 blitz (or T-storm), and 1 Fog/OE?  The math would be 22 and it gets us the FFQ for stall breaker options in our staves deck. 


ProBacon vs. Gravity (Gen. mathman101) Bacon 3-0 Mathman!!!
Our deck: (Dark duo sideboard) http://dek.im/d/5oc5oc5oc5oc5oc5of5of5of5of5oi5ol5on5on5on5on5on5oo5oo5oo5pu5pu5pu5pu5up5up5up7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7tb7tb8pt
Marked cards visible: 3 Shard of Patience, 3 Sundial
Not sure what they're sending here tbh, but we have 3 steals for the SoPa, an OE and 5 shocks. We have a sideboard deck btw, Bacon, so you play the first game with the full deck here and remove any 3 cards of your choice from the deck for the subsequent games. If you decide to remove any upgraded cards, you may reallocate those upgrades elsewhere in the deck. I suggest playing when another team member is around so we can discuss the sideboard during the match. :)
Salvage possible: 3 SoPa, 4 nova, 3 dials, Titan, 2 SoBrave, 3 SoFo, 4 Oty's, 3 armour
3 SoPa brings our squid deck online; I think that's important. Pending our last match results, we have 11 nova and 6 dials so we could buff those a bit. Or if we want to transmute:
2 Nova could get us back a Fog or OE.  Or we could trade 3 Nova for 2 Shocks Oops  we can't transmute Shocks since we have over 12.


phoenix1211 vs. Death (kaempfer13)
Our deck: (Dark duo Lt) http://dek.im/d/5oc5oc5oc5oc5oc5of5of5of5og5og5pu5pu5pu5pu5up5up5v15v17mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mu7mu7mu7tb7tb7tb8pt
Marked cards visible: None
No RT Mummies/Grabbow/Dim PUgons/Sundials. Maybe just a mono-rush from them, should be favorable if no SoSac, and maybe if SoSac too. Could be a dark duo too, not sure if they play that.
Salvage possible: 5 poison, 2 Arse, 4 SoSac (Dragons and nymphs unlikely).
Sadly, none of these are in the highest dust category, so we'd only get 4 dust per card in transmutation. We could transmute 5 cards for 20 total dust if we want to go that route, that would only get us back 2 Fogs, or 2 OEs (or 1 of each). and we'd salvage one other card (Arse for the grabbow).
4 soSac could make a nice splash, 2 Arse could be handy for our Grabbow. Definitely worth salvaging an Arsenic - I'm not sure who we would use a SoSac splash against. Quite like transmuting here. 1 Arse, 1 Fog, 1 OE could work (and just realized tha we can't salvage more OE since we have 11 in vault now). (We can, since we're discarding 3 OE and 2 fog from the darkness match, and discards happen first according to the rules)
Transmute options assuming we salvage 1 arsenic and transmute the rest - 2 of (Fog, OE, Blue Nymph); 1 SoFr + 1 of (TStorm, Flying Weapon). The reason I like having an extra SoFr is that the current super EC allows us to save 5 of our SoFr if we lose with it by transmuting 5 discard tokens (which cost 30 dust, equivalent to transmuting 6 highest cost cards).
Another thought, do you guys think it's worth transmuting a couple of FFQs instead of a fog/OE? I really like them in adrenastaves. We can salvage 1 of (Fog, OE, Blue Nymph) and 2 FFQ.

trashduke vs. Darkness (Odii Odsen)
Our deck: http://dek.im/d/5lc5lc5lc5li5li5lm5og5og5ol5ol5ol5on5on5on5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu7k07k67k67k67k67k67oe7oe7oe7oe8pq
Marked cards visible: None
No Fractal and no SoPa, so our stall should be fine here as long as they don't send Dark NT. I think a regular mono is most likely here, as they're not sending grabbow either.
Discard: We can keep 5 cards from this:
2 Miracle, 1 reflect, 6 sancs, 3 holy light, 2 Fog, 3 OE, 3 shocks

Shocks are the cheapest to transmute back (7), but we have over 12, so not possible this round; Fog and OE are both 10 (ouch). We only have the one reflective shield, so that's tough to let go of as well.   
This one hurts... Given our nymph threat, it's not crazy to think we can salvage back a reflective sometime... We can't really save the deck, but we could keep some of the core and hope to salvage back the rest? 4 sancs 1 miracle?
^Agreed with this


===================================

Round 3 prep:


Gen. Afdarenty vs. Life (Spielkind)
Life also faces: Aether, Darkness, Death
Bans by Life: Fractal, Reverse Time
I'm not actually sure if they've played anything particularly threatening. Something fast, CC resistant, with PC, and some way to beat rush will probably win it for us. Could stall them, actually.

All possible decks: Grabbow, Dark Duo, Nymphs, Mono Shocks, Stall


ProBacon vs. Gravity (Gen. mathman101)
Gravity also faces: Aether, Fire, Entropy
Bans by Gravity: Deflagration, Lightning
Im thinking speed
Grabbow consistently wrecked them last War - their RT deck actually loses to it. Perhaps wise to test vs their Dark Duo, but that deck aside, I think Grabbow is a very good choice for us. Need to test how it performs without Deflag, Lightning.

Alternatively, our Sideboard Shockwave Dark Duo also caused them a lot of problems. Also struggles against their Dark Duo somewhat - test test test!

All possible decks: Grabbow, Sideboard Shock Dark Duo, Mono


phoenix1211 vs. Death (kaempfer13)
Death also faces: Aether, Life, Fire
Bans by Death: Dimensional Shield, Wings
There's a part of me that's wondering if they'll expect our Stall here. Not sure what that means for them - either PUgons or a bigger stall. Hard for them to stall effectively without Bonewall, though.


trashduke vs. Darkness (Odii Odsen)
Darkness also faces: Water, Time, Life
Bans by Darkness: Sundial, Bonewall
Sanc stall seems reasonable here... especially if we ban Drain life, that seems like a smart choice.  Another option would be Devs, cause they are a pain in general.
Ahh, that age old coinflip. They've banned our Sundial, but our Sanc Stall is still an option - we only needed the Dials vs Drainbolt, and that deck is banned out for them.











Round 2 matches:
Vs. Aether: 3-1! :)
http://dek.im/d/5oc5oc5oc5oc5oc5of5of5of5of5of5on5on5oo5oo5pa5pa5pa5pa5pa5pa5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7n57n58pr
Well, that's a much easier way to get our FWs back...
5 FW, 1 PU...  or 4 FW and something crappy.

Vs. Fire 1-3 ... boo.
http://dek.im/d/5oc5oc5oc5oc5oc5oc5oh5oh5oh5oh5on5op5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mt7mv7mv7mv7mv7mv7mv8pr
4 discards from deck: 6 dragons, 6 damsels, blitz, 4 T-storm, 1 shock
shock, blitz, t-storm and dragons are all in the same 60-100 range to transmute (7 dust), so maybe: 1 dragons, 2 storm, 1 shock.


Vs. Light: Bacon 3-2 Joey
http://dek.im/d/5li5li5lm5lm5lm5lm5lm5lm5og5og5og5ol5ol5ol5on5on5on5on5on5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu5pu7oe7oe7oe7oe7q97q97q97q98pq
6 nova, 5 grabby's, 1 forest spirit, 3 blessings, EQ, deflag, vagger, 2 pegasi, 2 angels, 3 blessing.
Woot woot! We could pull another grabbow out of this.... or at least replenish some of our lost stock from this round.
That said, we should double check with WMs about Transmuting; with 11 salvage and some big cards, we might be able to get started on our second set of SoFrees...
Nova and Grabbows give the max 5 dust... that means we have 55 dust if we go all out. 4 soFree are 52... that's pretty sweet.  As tempting as it is... 11 cards for 4 just doesn't feel good.
But, transmuting 8 cards gives us 40 dust and 3 SoFree at 39 cost = more efficient. then we could still get 3 novas back... That feels a lot better to me.
Or, if we're thinking of balancing losses with this ... we go 6 novas to replace the discard from Water (+1 nova), deflag, and then have 4 more cards....Grabbows would be good and would let us have 2 grabbows if we can get more support cards.  Tough to minimize losses from the Water match. But, getting the Nymphs back would be an even 2:1 transmute since these cards are in the upper bracket, that feels good. So in the Water match, we could Discard 5 Nymphs and 4 Novas... and then get back 5 Novas and 3 Nymphs from this match (10 nymphs total).  or 3 Novas and 4 Nymphs if we were worried about them (11 total). I like the 5 Nova/3 Nymphs b/c it saves our support cards for the Grabbow... we need more of those!  And still enough to run 2 Nymph decks (w/ 5 a piece).  I think either 5 Nova/ 3 Nymphs or 6 Nova/5 Grabboids...
I still kind of like the grabboid option since it's such a strong deck.
Salvage: 5 nova, 2 Grabboids, 2 Nymphs (transmute).  x`


vs. Water: 0-3
http://dek.im/d/4sr4sr4sr4vj4vj4vj4vj4vj5oc5oc5p05p05p05p05p074d74d77l77l7dm7dm7ms7ms7ms7ms7ms7ms7q47q480a8po
boo... damn. 
9 discards from deck...from 5 nova, 5 nymphs, 2 Gpull, 2 deflag, 2 RT, 1 bolt.
Keep 7 cards: 2 Nova, 2 nymphs, 1 pull, 1 deflag, 1 bolt.  (or maybe 1 RT instead of deflag if we have enough).
** see talk in chat:
Discard: 5 Nova, 3 Nymphs, 1 deflag.


Round 2 matchups prep:

Aether
Last war they brought: Reclusetal w/BW (R1), Psiontal w/steals and dims (R4), PU Shard Golem (R5), Deflag Dim Fractix (R6), Suicide (R8). They came really close to beating mono-sofree with the fractix (yeah, I remember that match! it was really close)
Aether also faces: Darkness, Fire, Gravity

Possible threats:
Shard golem: This was the list they used last year (only in two games) - http://dek.im/d/z3595z55cqz461rz4786z6808z281q8pm
It's basically a duo with no deflags and no SoW, so shields are pretty good vs this. Not sure if this actually beats our sanc stall.
Mono-rush: http://dek.im/d/z461oz461rz2625z463az1808z580gz180lz181q8pu
They used this round 1, it's faster than SoFr mono (6.4 TTW avg) though OE/SW/shield slow it down a bit.
Dark duo(?): Not something they used last year, but it looks good vs SoFr while being a decent overall deck. Something like this: http://dek.im/d/z25upz15v1z561oz663az17tbz580gz380l8pt
Lt. here I think.
Maybe something like this:
http://dek.im/d/z35ocz25of5onz55paz35pu7msz57mtz17mvz17n57oe8pr



Fire
Fire also faces: Light, Darkness, Aether
I'm feeling maybe the Grabbow here?  a little crazy vs. fire, but I think it might work.
Maybe something like this (Ups build):
http://dek.im/d/4vhz54vjz3590z25ocz15olz25on61qz17dmz47mtz27mu8pm



Light
Light also faces: Darkness, fire, Gravy; Banned Wings
Maybe Dark duo here?
We should consider the Bucaneer boost for the extra salvage; or sideboard if we want some flex.
Maybe something like this (thinking Bucc boost):
http://dek.im/d/z55ocz55of5opz35puz25upz15v1z57mtz17tb8pt
Just a thought, if we think they won't use reflective shields, then Wise Wryms. It is consistant and can outspeed and Saders or 'rush' they may bring. Or some other rush, Grabow, Mono



Water
Last war, they brought Mono (queens + bolts + dry spells, R1), SoP Squidtal (R4), Shard Golem (R6), Void Dials (R7), Mono NT(R8), AM Flooding (R9), Void Dials (R10), Dark Domin (R11), Dim Dragontal (R11), SoP Wardens (R12), Dark Domin (R12), SoP Wardens + deflag (R13).
Water also faces: Life, Death, Entropy
Wow, did we play a lot. I always hated playing Water... Grabbow is a really solid deck against them, though. They should probably ban Damsel. Not sure what we do then - cry, I suppose. Quint Wyrms sounds okay vs them if they do ban damsel. Think they might ban nova considering their opponents this round. Or maybe Wings? They'll target us in some way, for sure. Bet it's Damsel, though, JCJ regretted not banning it during our Trials match. Banned Nova and Wyrms... no grabbow I guess, but we still have some solid options.

They might be thinking of sending the dry spell mono they used R1 last year. If they were mainly concerned about SoFr they'd be more likely to ban damsels.
I really like Nova nymphs here... pack a few deflags, but it should be good. Dark duo would also be strong.
Maybe something like this:
http://dek.im/d/z14srz34vjz15f6z15ocz45p0z177l7dmz87msz17q480a8po


Bans for Round 2:

Aether: Deflagration, Steal
Air: Fractal, Sundial
Darkness: Fractal, Nova
Death: Shard of Patience, Discord
Earth: Nova, dimension shield
Entropy: Shard of Patience, Graboid
Fire: Bone Wall, Fractal
Gravity: Fractal, Bone Wall
Life: None
Light: Fractal, Wings
Time: Bone Wall, Earthquake
Water: Wyrm, Nova


Thoughts on bans for round 2:
Fractal - I'd definitely vote on this being one of the bans, all of our opponents use it well except water and removing it makes aether a lot more one-dimensional (pun unintended). Their bonebolt reclusetal and fractix are both potential threats. Removes Rol Hope too. Makes our dark dom pretty good here, I think.
Sanctuary - I like this better than dials because the only deck that uses dials and not sanc is the SoV stall from water while all of the sancstalls can still be decent without sundial. Ensures no firestall, immortal, and water sancstall. I might be missing something about this vs sundial, so it's up to you guys to decide. I think just banning Sundials is enough to put those decks in a place where we can easily beat them - we don't have to outright ban them, just hurt them badly enough
Sundial -
SoP - Only water and light are likely to use this. Not sure how much banning this helps the water matchup, it's their overall strongest deck probably but idk. Rol Hope from light seems unlikely to me so perhaps it's a wasted ban. Nvm actually it bans swallow from water too,  that's something to consider.
Deflagration - Just an overall solid ban.
Other possibilities - Nova, Lightning (oops, can't ban 2 cards of the same element in 1 round, so if we ban fractal we can't ban this)
Up to you guys to decide since there's only 10 hours left and I'm going offline soon. I personally like banning fractal for sure, not sure about the other. I've created the thread in our secret section where we declare the bans, so just post there once we've decided.
Another thing to note is that we can ban a card only once over the course of the rounds for which this super EC holds, so if we ban X this round we can't ban it next round. Probably shouldn't matter nevertheless.



~~~ Round 1 Decks ~~~

Afda vs Time  3-0 ~
Deck: http://dek.im/d/z15li5lmz15ogz25olz55onz75puz47k6z37oez57q98pq
Recommended Upgrades: Miracles, OE if damage is needed
Match scheduled for: Sunday  1800 GMT Tuesday
Salvage options: 2 steal, 5 NM, 5 RT
I kind of like taking the darkness (we only have 7 steals and 2 NMs total... I would vote for taking 1-2 steals and the rest NMs
That said,  if we do want to transmute, NM is worth 140 for 4 dust (Steal is worth the same) so we'd have between 4-24 dust possible.
it takes 13 dust for a SoFree) at the cost of 4 cards... at that point we could transmute 5 cards to get 20 dust total, and then get a FW back as well (the cost is 7 for an even 20 dust). 
So that would be: 1 SoFree, 1 FW, 1 Steal/NM

Bacon vs Darkness (In progress) Bacon 1-3 Doc FT
Deck: http://dek.im/d/5bsz55c5z15c75dez55oiz15onz45puz37anz37oe8pn
Recommended Upgrades: vs Pests, upgrade 2 Pendulums, otherwise upgrade 2 Shockwaves
Match scheduled for: 3:30ish Tuesday (EST)
Discard: 6 FW makes sense, but we'll be all out of them... 7 dust to transmute these... not too bad I guess. Will be a slightly less than the typical 2:1 ratio for most of the good cards in a deck.

phoenix vs Earth 3-0
Deck: http://dek.im/d/z55oc5ofz25og5ol5opz55puz57mtz57mu8pr
Recommended Upgrades: vs Stall, upgrade the OE/Dragon, otherwise upgrade one Pillar, one Pendulum
Match scheduled for: Tuesday 6 PM GMT
Salvage: 6 grabbys, 6 RT, long sword, 4 golems
Grabby's all the way...
And if we want to transmute, they are worth 200 giving 5 dust (the max), but I'd like to grab the grabbies - time to bring our grabbow online. 

trashduke vs Entropy  3-1!!!
Deck: http://dek.im/d/z55ocz55ofz25oo5opz35puz25upz15v1z57mtz17tb8pt
Recommended Upgrades: Depends too much on what they're playing
Match scheduled for: Monday, Tuesday
Salvage: 6 Nova, 3 grabby, 4 lycan, 2 chaos seeds, 3 disco, 2 deflags, 1 fog, 3 BH, and a frog...  sheesh, lots of good choices here.
4 Nova and 2 grabbies maybe (would let us run Nova Nymphs and set us up for another grabbow if we get another couple of Novas). 
Or 6 Novas... then we could run two grabbows with 3 grabby's each. I'd probably lean there since Novas are more flexible/versatile. 
Or 4 Nova, 2 deflags.... so much good stuff to take here.

===================================

~~~ Round 1 ~~~

Afda vs Gen Time, DoubleCapitals
Time also faces: Aether, Fire, Gravity
We bullied them with Blue Nymphs last War - won 3 or 4 matches in a row with that deck. Don't really want to play that again, though. They should be prepared for it. Tempting to just pick a fast Mono, Shocks + OE. Either that or a Dark Domin - hopefully they don't ban Damsels. Fast mono sounds good - you'll also have a signif upgrade advantage here (more so if we go +2 with the EC).
Bans by Time: Blue Nymph, Dimensional Shield
Matches from last year:
Blue Nymphs 3-0 vs Dim PUgons http://elementscommunity.org/forum/round-1-246/(air-upgrades)-trashduke-3-0-fabian771-(time-sideboard)/
Blue Nymphs 3-0 vs UG Dials http://elementscommunity.org/forum/round-3-248/(air-ups)-chrispybacon84-3-0-fabian771-(time-tinkerer)/
Shockwave Mono 3-0 vs Graboid Ghost RT duo http://elementscommunity.org/forum/round-7/(air-lieutenant)-trashduke-3-0-kuroaitou-(time-general)/
This deck with 17 ups (15 + 2 EC) sounds pretty awesome actually.
Banning Nymphs means they might be thinking of sending something using Sundials or possibly Dim PUgons (though it's weak to SoFr mono and Dark duo(?)), so I'm not sure if Shockwave mono is good here (though it's still good vs ghosts and graboids in general).
Possible decks from them:
PDials/SoV dials
Ghostmare
SoP Scarabs
That ban is funny, they really don't have an answer to our nymphs, but yeah, I'd say definitely bring the shocks.

ProBacon vs Darkness, DoctorC
Darkness also faces: Death, Entropy, Gravity
Always hard. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see trap bow from them here - me and Physs have been going at it in the GM battle for a while, and the decks he trusted the most are SoP, Grabbow, Mono. He is also fond of drainbolt... which did well the last time he generalled Darkness; hella CC and stallbreaker options. What should we bring vs. drainbolt?  I think that's the question....  Maybe Wise wyrms here?  Also flubs their panda-stall. Lietenant likely here too, so 14 ups is formidable.
Bans by Darkness: Graboid, Discord
Darkness also face gravity this round, who've banned both SoPa and devs. But they can still bring those cards to us (just not to Gravy).

phoenix vs Earth, MegroN
Earth also faces: Aether, Death, Gravity
Grabbow was excellent vs them last War. I know Jenkar was regretting not playing a 5x Deflag Grabbow vs us in the final round of the previous War - I imagine that's the sort of thing that might stick in Blacksmiths mind, they'd have probably surived another round if they did. Tentatitve prediction? We'll have to be wary of it, at any rate. I'm feeling something fast, maybe even shard golem from them... Blacks mentioned that he wanted to use it more last war.
Bans by Earth: Wings, Fractal

trashduke vs Entropy, moehrpi
Entropy also faces: Darkness, Fire, Life
Hopefully not Maxwells? They can still run an AM domin against us. We played twice last War, both times they played Grabbow and we played a Sanc Stall. Both of those grabbows had disco too. They also brought Chaos Wyrms in War 9. Bad deck vs us, though, imo - they were out of options at that point, doubt they'll choose it again. Yeah, I thought it was curious when I saw it....  then I thought, we should have built that deck... hehe.  in any case, dark duo sounds delicous here...  :)


Bans by Entropy: Deflagration, Owl's Eye

Bans by other elements:
Aether: Sanctuary, Sundial
Death: None
Fire: Shard of Patience, Nova
Gravity: Shard of Patience, Devourer
Life: None
Light: None
Water: Fractal, Firebolt

Offline phoenix1211

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Re: Pad Archive https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65043.msg1272104#msg1272104
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 08:23:41 am »
Spoiler for Round 6 - Round 7 stuff:
Useful Links

Vault!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12AB4hoHuR0oBn2XeDyAuD-tiir17HYYsABrRCyJmFLc/edit?usp=sharing
Phoenix's awesome spreadsheet of fun:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bHFcTCZLXU5RgiP6LHA1WkIj24lmunKJqQSrKWR1nqc/edit#gid=198167192
Aves's list of all decks used in War 10:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/darkness/war-10-all-decks-used/
Zawadx's intel sheet for Wars 7-10:  (this was publicly posted btw)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kmk4Y5n1R5wnL6ec_Fuj5C5F_W2U1pw7RX3OE7SHWL0/edit#gid=1520737573
War 10 testing tables:
            http://elementscommunity.org/forum/air/testing-tables/
War 11 info:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cSEo1ldbCNMNyVM0S7mm9knuj_kC3xbs7jIQC-r8NaE/edit#gid=1980526896

Transmutation table:
Market Price  50-   60-100    105-150     160+    Pillars/Pendulums/Marks
Dust gained:   2         3               4             5                  3
Dust cost        5          7             10           13               N/A
to transmute

Link to market prices:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war/war-11-market-prices-(experimental)/

Azure dragon 90, Nymph 130, Dragonfly 100, Wyrm 95
Fog 130, Wings 140, OE 110
FW 80, Shocks 100, Blitz 60, T-storm 80, UG 50.

===================================

Round 7 Decks

 Gen. Afdarenty  vs. Aether (TheonlyrealBeef)
Salvage:  Transmute 18 dust here. 1 OE and 1 Wings maybe? really depends what we  need next round, but sadly we can't get much from this match.


ProBacon vs Darkness (DoctorC) PB 0 - 3 Phy Final
http://dek.im/d/z25giz15i4z45ig5jmz15ohz15onz65puz17gkz17i6z37oe8pp


phoenix1211 vs Death (blrawen11)
http://dek.im/d/z25ocz25ogz95puz3621z37muz58168pu
Boost: Upgrades

trashduke vs Water (vagman13)
http://dek.im/d/4vhz54vj55tz3590z25ocz25on7dmz17hiz57mtz27mu8pm


Rd. 7 prep

 Gen. Afdarenty  vs. Aether (TheonlyrealBeef)
 SoFr with Triple wings? we win vs. Devtal right? 
Salvage: Transmute 18 dust here. 1 OE and 1 Wings maybe? really depends what we need next round, but sadly we can't get much from this match.
 
 
 
 ProBacon vs. Darkness (DoctorC)
 Sanc Stall? (could sideboard Wings if we're worried about NT or something else ... but I agree they probably lost it). That said the EC from last round could have filled holes if they wanted to salvage 5 NTs
 Possible decks from them - Mono devs, Drainbolt, Siphonary, Grabbow, SoP/NT/Devtal (?). Siphonary actually sounds like the scariest deck from them, does it beat everything except SoFr, and possibly Quint Wyrms if they have no reflectives? They played a 42-card version last round. They almost certainly do have reflectives.
 Mono devs loses to stall (which we haven't played since we lost with it, and it was four rounds back), possibly Nova Nymphs, possibly shock mono(?). I think they'll expect us to be expecting devs. (Wait, I just remembered PB doesn't have nymphs, so they know we can't play Nova Nymphs, making devs a bit more likely, perhaps).
 Drainbolt beats everything except SoFr and Quint Wyrms(?). Not sure how it does vs stall.
I also like the idea of a grabbow here; do we have enough to run 2?  It would mix it up a bit and it could make them think that we don't have the sanc stall... then a couple rounds later - boom!  We have those "borrowed" sancs till round 9, right?

 
 phoenix1211 vs. Death (blrawen11)
 Grabbow + 2 Gpull?
 Possible decks from them - RT Mummies, Mono, SoSac stall, Bonebolt(?)
 Wise wyrms with fog   Dark duo
 
 
 trashduke vs. Water (vagman13)
Nova Nymphs with deflags? Or maybe our Nova + deflag + T-storm and CC version? Lt. here likely.
Possible decks from them - Too many to predict. Explosive SoP wardens, Dark stuff, SoD stall, Fractal Ball SoP, random Desiccation deck? I have a feeling they consider the Fractal Ball deck to be strong vs us in general, not just against wings. Sparktal is great vs Wings - they fly.
Lt. Grabbow (w/ T-storm if possible) 80% sure we're faster than Sparktal anyway; yeah, those 6ttws are not common I'd imagine. I do like the Grabbow idea here.   



EC match vs. Entropy
Nova Nymphs, maybe with wings for disco.
Fix ups  (nymphs), but something close to this:
http://dek.im/d/z24srz34vjz25giz15ocz25ooz45p0z15pu74d77lz17msz17oe7q480a8pr



Rd. 6 Salv/Discard thoughts:
Afdarenty vs Life Gen (Mr Muffin)
options: 1 NM, 4 steal, 2 vagger, 6 dragons, 2 emerald shields.
1 NM, 2 vagger, 3 steal = another dark duo (wish they had more NMs, but we'll take it).  Seconded


phoenix1211 vs Fire Gen (worldwideweb3)
options: 2 deflags, 4 rage pots, 3 seraph, 2 red nymphs, 4 angels, miracle.
2 deflags for sure...
the rest of these cards are pretty much worth crap in transmutation (3 dust each). It might be worth taking the rage pots as potential cards that could also be used for fodder. Or we say hell with it and transmute to get 2 discard tokens... that wouldn't be bad, and we could even think of it as saving 2 SoPa from the water loss this round.
2 deflags, 2 discard tokens Sounds good to me.


trashduke vs Water (hainkarga)
Discard: Save 5 damsels... maybe 6 with one discard token. Also worth considering using tokens to save 2-3 SoPa for stall breaker options like we did with the grabbow.
It might not be worth it to save the squids since 2 are borrowed as is; that said, I think we'll be facing water a few more times this war, so we'll have a chance to get some of these back.
Save 5 damsels, use 3-4 tokens to save another damsel and 2-3 sopa Definitely want to save all the Damsels... Need to think about SoP. A couple for the Bow would be nice.

Round 6 Prep:

EC thoughts: we still have fodder and we have holes, so it absolutely makes sense to do this. 3 rounds of having cards we want is still worth the 5 fodder
500 points 
2 x Sanc = 200
2 x Deflag = 240 (great card for our grabbow but also our nymph decks and we only have 2 in vault)
Another blitz for 60 ???  we have 2 in vault... not sure we need this, but thinking ahead through rounds 7 and 8 makes me think it might be worth it (only costs 1 fodder, right?).



Afdarenty vs Life Gen (Mr Muffin)
Scary Life stuff: Adrenastaves, Stallbow (probably dead), Firestall (dead, but EC), Discord Bow, Dark Domin.
SoPa duo sounds good here.
I kinda like shock mono here as long as we're sure we won't get stalled. Vange did mention that they don't like playing the firestall without tinkerer boost, though it's still a possibility, along with their carapace SoD stall. Should beat adrenastaves or any OP life mono they throw at us :P. SoP seems iffy against discord.
One rather weird possibility from them is quinted adrenastaves - I know Vange considers that deck strong, and it's a decent choice against us, I think.
Worried about: SoD stall, Explo, Quint staves, Bow


phoenix1211 vs Fire Gen (worldwideweb3)
Scary Fire stuff: Firestall, Bonewall, Immo, Dark Domin, Fractix (w/ EC), phoenixbolt?
Could bring our new and improved BW deck here.
Dark duo, maybe sideboard?

trashduke vs Water (hainkarga)
Scary Water stuff: Sanc Stall(!), Dark Tears, SoP Wardens (Explo Splash), maybe the Trident/Dev/SoP trio, Shipwrecker? (not sure if they'd bring vs. us).
SoFree with some Wings teched in would be hard for them I think. sideboard could give some nice flexibility with that.
SoPa (build from last war with more water quanta).
Discard:



===================================
Super EC (R4-6): You may transmute Discard tokens for 6 dust, which may be used as a discard from deck.

Based off of phoenix's predictions, we are getting 6 discard tokens from the EC =  sweet. We have 13 total in vault already (before salv/disc) for this round. That's great.

Round 5 salvage
Afdarenty vs Entropy 3-0
Salvage possible: 6 BW, 6 dials, 3 lightning, vagger,  (6 AM, 6 nova, 6 Pande)
Love the BWs - I think we def. take some of those (4 seems reasonable?). maybe also 2 Lightning to have support for 2 Grabbows? we have enough in vault at this point to run two. Our grabbow is seriously OP.  :)   Given the BW salvage from death, we could go:
3 lightning and 3 nova (or 3 dials)
1 vagger, 2 bolts, 3 nova

phoenix1211 vs Light 3-0
Salvage possible: 6 dials, 2 miracle, 2 glories, 6 bolts.
Those miracles sounds great...  could pick up some spare dials, or maybe discard tokens for the rest of it?
2 Miracles, 3 discard tokens or 4 dials pull the miracles from the earth match maybe... could go 5 discard tokens here unless we want more dials or miracles.

ProBacon vs Death 3-2
Salvage possibilities: 5 BW, 2 arse, 6 bolts, 1 fahren, 4 storms.
5 BW, 1 Arsenic

trashduke vs Earth 3-0
Salvage possibilities: 6 dials, 6 miracles, 6 SoDiv, 2 reflective, (6 SS, 2 Tit Shields)
2 Miracles, 2 reflective, 2 SoDiv (or 2 dials)
2 Miracle, 1 Reflective, 2 T-storms



 

anything
blarg: Hyroen