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Offline The_MormegilTopic starter

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Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg326811#msg326811
« on: May 04, 2011, 05:28:49 pm »
We're taking 48 cards penalty, plus 24 cards lost from Amilir's deck (which was a counter). We have taken the biggest blow of this War so far. Now, I will try to analyze what we did wrong and how not to do it again. This is probably enough to get us out of the War. It is not a reason to stop fighting, though: Life was in a similar situation last War and managed a 3rd place... and that is why I have written this. It is an attempt to start a constructive conversation on how to do better. Do not act immaturely, please, as this is fault of all of us: we are a Team and we share responsabilities.

Problems:
First problem was, we have taken the rules too lightly. People edited the posts of the Deckbuilding Phase even after the ending time, cutting out minor mistakes or sorting other things out, but this is not an Event to run lightly. We should have finished the deckbuilding far before the deadline, both times, and we never actually did.

Second problem was, we have been careless with the Vault editing and the salvaging/discarding/converting topic. It is good to remember that while everybody shall contribute, some roles have privileges that other people do not have. If the salvager starts salvaging topics, then he is the one that can edit the opening post, which is what Warmasters use as a measure. Lieutenant and General have mod powers, but Lieutenant Amilir is gone and QuantumT cannot do everything alone.
This is almost the same, but we're all far more guilty, with the Vault. The Vault can be freely edited, and not having done it means nobody (including myself and excluding Amilir for obvious reasons) was paying attention to it.

Third problem was with the ADU - or rather, with not properly using it. I'm not accusing anybody, as we all did a bad deckbuilding phase and should have checked it, so please don't feel offended by this.


Solutions:
We're going to need some brainstorming on this, but I have some suggestions. I would like to point out that this is by no means intended to offend or insult anybody, so please don't be. Nor is this supposed to be the word of an arrogant: I'm well aware that QuantumT is in charge and what I say here is just suggestions.
I'm just pointing out what, in my head, needs to be done, and why.

1) We need to reorganize roles. Some people are less active than others, and that's a fact. RL takes its toll and all, so it's not an accusation, but we need to keep the most important roles for the most active people. First, we need a new Lieutenant fast. We need somebody with mod powers to tutor over everything. Second, we need to keep the Deckbuilder, Salvager and Vault Editor roles on active people. I'm not going to say who is not or anything, that is up to the General (I have no right to criticize others from my position).

2) We need to agree on a common policy. Some mistakes are easily avoided by just creating and applying a common code of conduct. I'm going to post the one I came up with today, but please help define it further.

Deckbuilding:
At the end of the first day of the Deckbuilding phase, we need to have 8 legal decks to work on. Even if we swap later, that's no problem, as long as we have 8 decks (well... probably less than 8 now) by the end of the first day. Any team member with the right to do so (Lt., Gen. and Deckbuilder) can do it, but he needs to use the ADU and check that all decks are legal before updating them.
At this point, any one member of the team must check the legality of the decks and post in the thread convalidating them. If nobody did this before, it is YOUR duty to do it, no matter the role.
If anybody wants to edit the decks, he must check the legality again, and another person must convalidate it again. I know it seems rather pointless, but it is not as time-consuming as it seems.
If the OP of the deckbuilding is not up to date, you shall PM the three people that can change it (Lt., Gen. and Deckbuilder) informing them of this fact.

Salvaging, Discarding, Converting:
At the end of the first day of the Deckbuilding phase, we need to have legal salvages and discardings done. Even random ones will work. After the discussions, the Salvager, the Lieutenant or the General should alter the OP with the proper changes.
If you notice that the OP is not up to date, you should PM the three people that can change it (Lt., Gen. and Salvager) to warn them.
EVERY TIME the OP is edited, the person who edits it shall edit the Vault too. Everybody can do it, so... he might as well. Every time he does, he should post a warning to everybody that he did. Every other team member will then need to check the Vault and post to convalidate it. One convalidation is sufficient, it is unlikely that two people would make the same mistake.

Summary:
Every time we start the Deckbuilding phase we need to have a legal setup ready to modify later. Every time decks are changed, the one who changes them checks the legality of all of them, and another person posts to convalidate it. Every time salvaging and discards are changed, the person that changed them changes the Vault too and another person posts once to convalidate the salvaging and once to convalidate the Vault changings.

Final considerations: we're going to have between 4 and 6 players fighting next round, most likely. We don't need a replacement for Amilir. We will probably save some decks, along with some chances to resist. Not all hope is lost, but we can't say we're going to win this. At least, let's resist to a mid-range position, ok?
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Offline jippy99

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg326908#msg326908
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 07:22:07 pm »
GUYS! Come on! I have said repeatedly that we need to do things on time!  Let's try to be a bit more active.  Also, if you change the salvages from what I have said, TELL ME!!!
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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg326928#msg326928
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 07:45:58 pm »
Let me explain how things came to be, calmly.

Round 1 editing after deadline for Deckbuilding -12 cards:
Why the hell did Amilir use a deck different than what we have decided? INFORM ME if you decide to change a deck. Not knowing about the change, I changed it back to what we had originally planned, after the deadline.

Round 4 editing after deadline for Deckbuilding -12 cards: Whenever I go on private chat, only Truddy was there or no one at all. Can't we spend more time discussing decks before the last 12 hours of deckbuilding? It's my fault for not following the ADU correctly resulting in an illegal deck for Amilir. I hereby apologize for that. Although if the salvager and vault organizer got the ADU done immediately after Round 3 would make my life much easier. REPORT any absences so a different person will manage the vault.

Substitute wins -21-24 cards: 2 subs for Amilir, one for Morm (3 cards instead of 6), and one more I don't remember... More activity please.

I would happily be Lieutenant or stay at where I am; I am very active and I can aid in making sure people are doing their jobs.
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Offline jippy99

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg326930#msg326930
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 07:47:43 pm »
ALL TEAM MEMBERS COME TO CHAT NOW! We are going to talk things over.
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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg326939#msg326939
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 07:56:59 pm »
ALL TEAM MEMBERS COME TO CHAT NOW! We are going to talk things over.
I cannot; I'm still at school. But please do post anything you guys have talked about so we can keep track of any new policies.
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Offline jippy99

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg326946#msg326946
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 08:04:36 pm »
ALL TEAM MEMBERS COME TO CHAT NOW! We are going to talk things over.
I cannot; I'm still at school. But please do post anything you guys have talked about so we can keep track of any new policies.
Well, QT has said that he is going to change team roles.  Hisar will become vault organizer and truddy will be Lt.  We also said that we need to coordinate everything and do it on time.
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Offline The_MormegilTopic starter

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg326950#msg326950
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 08:07:10 pm »
I talked with QT about this this afternoon. He decided to change the roles a bit:

- Hisar is now Vault Organizer
- Truddy is now Lieutenant
- Omegareaper is now Strategist

Check the Role Thread if you wish so.

He seemed to like my proposed code, so I think we should start abiding from next round.

There is no need to be angry or to search for self-excuses. If you need to express your opinion and say your side of things, please do, but remember that we are all equally guilty as this is what working as a team implies.
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Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg327244#msg327244
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 12:21:28 am »
If I'm organizing the vault, here's what I'll do:  Within one day prior to the end of deckbuilding, I'll copy what's currently in the ADU.  If that's not enough, I'll look for discussion, otherwise I'll make shit up.

I seem to be on at different times from everyone else, so I may not be in chat with people.  If the vault is done, PM me and I'll update it.

Offline Newbiecake

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg327296#msg327296
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 01:47:20 am »
Nice! Truddy is general. Active, responsible guy! Good choice!

Let's recover from our penalties team!
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Offline truddy02

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Re: Penalities massacre and us https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25631.msg327320#msg327320
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 02:25:58 am »
Well guys this sucks.  But what's done is done.  We aren't totally out of it either.  The example was given of life last war.  I think entropy in the first war got devastated early as well and came back for second.  We could really still work back toward the top as long as nobody is able to really pull away.  Life last war ended up beating fire and death which both at points were probably as far ahead of them as the top team now is ahead of us.  For all the penalties we took, even considering the forfeit it turned into 3 losses.  We won't be in last and just have to take it one round at a time trying to win as many matches as we can.  We also get to choose which cards to discard so it won't necessarily devastate our best decks or give our entire strategy away immediately.  Next round will be key as we will be revealing much of our vault and will need a good amount of salvage to be able to build new decks.

Now to address the issues.   I think most everything has been addressed so I will just a few things.  At the very least I think these guidelines need to be followed strictly along with Morms code:

-After everything has been checked as legal, any changes must be made with either QT, myself, or both salvager and deckbuilder present.  This will ensure that everything is changed at the same time.

-Lock salvaging and deck building topics as soon as deckbuilding is over, sooner if necessary. 

We are better off putting out whatever deck we have than making last minute changes that cause penalties and possibly losing anyway.  Also, deck building generally ends about an hour or two before I leave for work.  I usually have some time before I leave to get online where I could make some last minute changes and make sure everything that needs to gets changed, if you shoot me a PM.

I also think we should split some things up a bit.  Particularly with deck building, I think we end up with everyone doing everything and it gets a bit jumbled, leads to confusion, and ends up with us scrambling to pull everything together in the end.  I'm still working out how this can be done.

Finally, I want to say that this is the point where a team either falls apart and implodes in on itself and self destructs or takes the hit, keeps going and fights on.  I think with the team we have, we will be the latter.  Lets not bitch, feel sorry for for ourselves, blame each other, or do anything negative.  I think so far the reaction has been overwhelmingly positive and we need to continue to take this in stride and fight on and avoid repeating mistakes.  Let's play like we plan to win and we will not be broken down by anything. 

 

anything
blarg: