Vault Planning Thread

[pikachufan2164]

I don't think we should be taking Luciferin into our Vault -- that PU Golden Dragon deck I posted wasn't that great at countering Firesanc anyway when compared to Will's PU Phoenix with extra Deflags.

We could still use Fractal Golden Dragons as a win condition in a / stall with Sanc, Miracle, and Dim Shield.

[willng3]

Um. There's a few issues here.

First off, just get rid of all the cards.  Since there seems to be an agreement that the Catapult Titan deck is chancy at best I see no reason to endanger us just because it's a neat idea.  That second deck needs Armagios to work at all, and just from a glance I can see that there are too many quanta issues for us to weed out for the time being.

We have enough Devourers in here for 2 Devtal decks, but do we have the Vault space for the rest of the cards that go along with it?  I don't think so.  I would remove 6 Devourers, 9 Minor Vampires, 3 Steals, and add 2 Nightfall.  Dusk Mantle would help a lot but may not be necessary.  We're going to need that LS + Black Dragon + PU deck too:  +4 Black Dragons, +4 LS.

Remove the 6 Squid.

Why do we have 4 Eternities?  The Flying Eternity deck runs 3 of them, not 4.  And since that's a Lieutenant/Master only deck I don't think we want to take the risk of including that deck here.  Without the Reverse Times that other deck is useless.  Just get rid of them.  I don't have a really good feeling about any of our Scarab decks either.  Honestly, if we want to take any type of cards here then I would say it would have to be 6 Sundials to use either with Dim Shields for added stall or to use in Eva's Sundial Poison stall which is notoriously awesome in PvP environments anyways.

The Morning Stars bother me.  They're nice in that Miracle Stall deck, but we literally can't do anything with them if that deck loses in later rounds.  I would advise not taking them, not sure about the rest of you.  That Golden Dragon + Luciferin deck will not work as intended without Reflective Shields and I'm pretty sure we've established that PU Phoenix is a sure win against  Firesancstall.  Remove the 2 Golden Dragons and 6 Luciferin.  As Eva said, we can take Holy Lights for unexpected powerful CC against Death and Darkness which would be nice for any of our Rainbows.  The Sanctuary + Miracle stall deck should really be all we absolutely need from .

However now things go beyond my ability to judge based on appearance alone.  This is one of the reasons why I wanted to get a consensus on what decks we absolutely felt were necessary to our success:  Now we're just throwing out cards that could be useful in the future instead of actually looking at the decks, seeing what we need, and paying attention to whether or not we can fit them in the vault.  For instance:  We have 0 Immolations in the Vault and we still have not decided on how many Immo decks we want to take, much less which ones we want to use.  Sure, if you want me to I can choose every single deck that we will use without any added input, but I obviously don't want to do that since we need to be doing this as a team and not as individuals.

Our vault is finite, we can't take everything.

[UTAlan]

First off, just get rid of all the cards.

Should Titan remain? Or be removed, as well?

[pikachufan2164]

-- I agree with Will here. Let's get rid of all Gravity cards other than those Graviton Fire Eaters (for Immobow or Novagrabby)

-- So it seems that we'll be taking one deck each of Pestal and PU LS Black Dragon. Will's Vault changes are good here.

-- Yep, the Squids are out of place.

-- Eternities aren't that great of a choice; the Eternities from last War's Flying Eternity deck just sat in the Vault until the end -_-
Sundials for Eva's deck sounds good. We can't really do Scarabtal unless we resort to either taking off-element quanta sources (bad) or using up some of our Novas (also bad).

-- Agreed with Will's choices here. 3-4 Holy Light is probably the most we need if we're packing them in our rainbows.

-- Froggies look sort of out of place here; should we even take them without more support cards from Life? If we are going to build Frogtal, then we need more Frogs and Heals, as per Will's deck skeleton.

Let's choose which decks we want to take into our Vault, then.

Great options we have:
- Immobow
- Silence Novagrabby
- Immophoenix (our Scrambled Shriekers counter)
- PU Phoenix (our Firesanc counter) [Also contains skeleton build for Fractix]
- Aether / Light stall
- Devtal
- Balanced Aether / Death duo (also contains skeleton build for Mummytal)
- PU LS Black Dragon
- Sundial / Arsenic Stall
- Water / Aether Flay and Purify (counters Water and Death)
- Panda Dragons
- PU Owl's Eye
- Silence / Earthquake denial
- Frogtal (if we take 6 Frogs and 6 Heals)
- Lots and lots of standard mono-Aethers

So that gives us duos with

[deuce22]

However now things go beyond my ability to judge based on appearance alone.  This is one of the reasons why I wanted to get a consensus on what decks we absolutely felt were necessary to our success:  Now we're just throwing out cards that could be useful in the future instead of actually looking at the decks, seeing what we need, and paying attention to whether or not we can fit them in the vault.  For instance:  We have 0 Immolations in the Vault and we still have not decided on how many Immo decks we want to take, much less which ones we want to use.  Sure, if you want me to I can choose every single deck that we will use without any added input, but I obviously don't want to do that since we need to be doing this as a team and not as individuals.

Our vault is finite, we can't take everything.

Deckbuilding thread kind of hit a dry spell for a while there, and there was very little input on what decks we definitely wanted, and which were iffy.

In terms of immo decks, I guess it depends on how many rushes we want to have. In what little testing i've done with the decks (about 20 matches each), I've found that the nova rushes tend to be a lot more consistent than the immobows due to the fact that immobows require combos for quanta generation, which takes 4 other useful cards out of the deck and has a good potential for delays due to bad draws. I will defer to Higs, will, and pika as to how many rush decks we need, whether we want to use them regularly or as a surprise attack. I think both novas and immobows are very useful, but I would give a preference for nova over immobow if we decide to take 2 or less rushes.

[Higurashi]

They will be surprises. The majority of our wins will come from mostly Monoaether (when they don't have PC or enough Poison/Bolt/Momentum damage) and denial (Devtal).

[willng3]

I'm almost positive we can make it with only 2 rushes minimum, 1 Immo and 1 Novabow.  The way our vault looks now, I would say that we have the ability to possibly build another Novabow depending 1)  On the opponent we're facing, 2)  What decks aren't being used at the time (what cards are left over basically) and 3)  What cards we pick up from the opponents as the rounds continue.  With 12 Graboids we have the ability to field 2 of these decks at any point in the future and allow us to explore other options as well.

The decision between the Immo decks is the hardest.  The scrambling shriekers is unmistakably more consistent, but my rush allows us to adapt into another Novabow much more easily if we decide we need 2 at any point.  Basically, the two would be a skeleton for each other.  Another miscellaneous pro includes less use of Immolation (less dead cards for other decks) and 1 less Spark which seems to be a waste of a card for us.  My version runs 1 less Lightning which makes it harder to counter Scrambled Shriekers.  Pika's deck also includes 2 Deflags which mine does not, though it could be adapted to fix that problem.  Damn, I'm having a really hard time deciding between the two.

One other solution is to take 2 Novabows and Pika's deck, and simply combine one Novabow and Pika's to create my Immo rush if we ever found ourselves in a position where we wanted to do such a thing.  It's actually a very vault conservative tactic and full of surprises.  If we have the space for this I would go with this option mainly just because I hate that much :>

EDIT:  Ha, I say Pika's deck even though he posted Hugs's deck.  Oh well, I'm too lazy to fix those, so just ignore my lack of a brain for now xD

[deuce22]

I'm almost positive we can make it with only 2 rushes minimum, 1 Immo and 1 Novabow.  The way our vault looks now, I would say that we have the ability to possibly build another Novabow depending 1)  On the opponent we're facing, 2)  What decks aren't being used at the time (what cards are left over basically) and 3)  What cards we pick up from the opponents as the rounds continue.  With 12 Graboids we have the ability to field 2 of these decks at any point in the future and allow us to explore other options as well.

The decision between the Immo decks is the hardest.  The scrambling shriekers is unmistakably more consistent, but my rush allows us to adapt into another Novabow much more easily if we decide we need 2 at any point.  Basically, the two would be a skeleton for each other.  Another miscellaneous pro includes less use of Immolation (less dead cards for other decks) and 1 less Spark which seems to be a waste of a card for us.  My version runs 1 less Lightning which makes it harder to counter Scrambled Shriekers.  Pika's deck also includes 2 Deflags which mine does not, though it could be adapted to fix that problem.  Damn, I'm having a really hard time deciding between the two.

One other solution is to take 2 Novabows and Pika's deck, and simply combine one Novabow and Pika's to create my Immo rush if we ever found ourselves in a position where we wanted to do such a thing.  It's actually a very vault conservative tactic and full of surprises.  If we have the space for this I would go with this option mainly just because I hate that much :>

because we will likely have only 1 immobow, should we keep a max of 6 immos in the vault?

[EvaRia]

For I would suggest taking extra devourers anyways, chances are we will lose them in later rounds and it really will be necessary to keep devtal for as long as possible.

While we really only need one devtal deck, I suggest taking enough cards for 1 1/2 so we can keep it long enough.

[willng3]

I'm almost positive we can make it with only 2 rushes minimum, 1 Immo and 1 Novabow.  The way our vault looks now, I would say that we have the ability to possibly build another Novabow depending 1)  On the opponent we're facing, 2)  What decks aren't being used at the time (what cards are left over basically) and 3)  What cards we pick up from the opponents as the rounds continue.  With 12 Graboids we have the ability to field 2 of these decks at any point in the future and allow us to explore other options as well.

The decision between the Immo decks is the hardest.  The scrambling shriekers is unmistakably more consistent, but my rush allows us to adapt into another Novabow much more easily if we decide we need 2 at any point.  Basically, the two would be a skeleton for each other.  Another miscellaneous pro includes less use of Immolation (less dead cards for other decks) and 1 less Spark which seems to be a waste of a card for us.  My version runs 1 less Lightning which makes it harder to counter Scrambled Shriekers.  Pika's deck also includes 2 Deflags which mine does not, though it could be adapted to fix that problem.  Damn, I'm having a really hard time deciding between the two.

One other solution is to take 2 Novabows and Pika's deck, and simply combine one Novabow and Pika's to create my Immo rush if we ever found ourselves in a position where we wanted to do such a thing.  It's actually a very vault conservative tactic and full of surprises.  If we have the space for this I would go with this option mainly just because I hate that much :>

because we will likely have only 1 immobow, should we keep a max of 6 immos in the vault?

Yes, keep 6.

For I would suggest taking extra devourers anyways, chances are we will lose them in later rounds and it really will be necessary to keep devtal for as long as possible.

While we really only need one devtal deck, I suggest taking enough cards for 1 1/2 so we can keep it long enough.

Well I was trying to be conservative before since we were only 3 cards from our limit with numerous cards missing which were needed for other decks.  Worry about the bare minimums now, fill in the excess later if we have the ability to do so.

[UTAlan]

We currently have 23 open slots left. I say we review the decks posted by Pika and determine which ones we want to keep, then review the vault and make sure we aren't missing anything.

[Higurashi]

ImmoPhoenix with Lightnings is mainly for beating Scrambled Shriekers. And it does so 10 times out of 10 by my testing. Because of this, I'm not sure if we should get more of it. With space over, it's one viable option.

More Devs is a priority, yeah. We don't want to run out of Steals or Vamps for those, either.