Vault Planning Thread

[Higurashi]

Eva's correct. Look at the vault of War 2. We need as many as we can get of these staple cards.

[deuce22]

If all the experienced players agree, then I guess I can't argue. It just doesn't seem logical to me. Maybe I'm just trying to be over-efficient...

[UTAlan]

I've put in (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtIJScFz1sS7dEZDTG9OVm9GTVBMWl9EeXBBaG1HbGc&hl=en&authkey=CNWFvvcK#gid=0) all the suggestions so far, leaving us with 137 cards to put into the vault. However, we haven't put in any pillars/pendulums yet. Should we look at how many we'll need there next?

[Higurashi]

I tried finding how many pillars/pends were used in the past, but it eludes me.

Been looking at War 2 matchups for EA+Dim Shield. It's not pretty. In most cases, EA has shown to be a waste of card because the metagame when playing against Aether goes like this: either I bring PC and they bring Dim Shield or I take a chance.
We're better off just using Dim Shield when we don't predict PC. Problem is, everyone expected tons of perms from Aether back then, and they were right. This means using Dim Shields comes entirely down to deck predictions, and therefore it seems a good idea not to use them much in the first round.

The natural substitute for Dim Shield is Lightning for a faster and more versatile deck. Too bad we can't take more more than 24 Lightnings. :p
We can take off-element CC, such as RoF which is great for any Fire/Aether decks we'll make, but too much of it and it'll be useless against the invulnerable creatures they'll salvage from us or bring from the start. I like the prospect of Fog Shield and OE's to give us lasting power there.

It sure is no joke versatility is the most important thing to last long in War. The ability to use any and all cards takes a team far. It's why Entropy and Fire have an edge. We have Fractal, PU, CC, and I like the looks of the rainbows we can make. We should take the maximum number of Novas and Immos and surprise them with speed (while having a lot of Aether cards for later rounds) :>

[willng3]

I tried finding how many pillars/pends were used in the past, but it eludes me.

The initial amount was 49 Pillars and 72 Pendulums.  Tracking down the amount that was used/converted after that would surely make my brain explode.

Been looking at War 2 matchups for EA+Dim Shield. It's not pretty. In most cases, EA has shown to be a waste of card because the metagame when playing against Aether goes like this: either I bring PC and they bring Dim Shield or I take a chance.
We're better off just using Dim Shield when we don't predict PC. Problem is, everyone expected tons of perms from Aether back then, and they were right. This means using Dim Shields comes entirely down to deck predictions, and therefore it seems a good idea not to use them much in the first round.

I came down to the exact same conclusion.  However if nothing else we can also use Cloak which adds the advantage of protecting otherwise normally fragile creatures as well.  It costs 4 though which is the only thing I'm concerned about.  But yeah, we should limit the use of some of our otherwise more useful strategies in the first round just to throw the other teams off our trail.

The natural substitute for Dim Shield is Lightning for a faster and more versatile deck. Too bad we can't take more more than 24 Lightnings. :p
We can take off-element CC, such as RoF which is great for any Fire/Aether decks we'll make, but too much of it and it'll be useless against the invulnerable creatures they'll salvage from us or bring from the start. I like the prospect of Fog Shield and OE's to give us lasting power there.

Definitely.  I remember someone talking about a PU OE deck a while back (sorry, too lazy to look up who) which sounded very tempting.  It takes a few rares though, but from the looks of it everyone's dedicated to gathering those anyways so surely it isn't a problem.

It sure is no joke versatility is the most important thing to last long in War. The ability to use any and all cards takes a team far. It's why Entropy and Fire have an edge. We have Fractal, PU, CC, and I like the looks of the rainbows we can make. We should take the maximum number of Novas and Immos and surprise them with speed (while having a lot of Aether cards for later rounds) :>

Hells yeah, versatility ain't something we're lacking.  That's yet another advantage we have during the earlier rounds.  Really, if we wanted to we could take bits and pieces out of the decks we're currently using, create a different deck (Mono Aether for example) and then go have fun with it.  Next round?  "WHERE THE HELL DID THAT DECK COME FROM!?!?!?!"  Yeah I'm getting excited just thinking about it.

[deuce22]

I've put in (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtIJScFz1sS7dEZDTG9OVm9GTVBMWl9EeXBBaG1HbGc&hl=en&authkey=CNWFvvcK#gid=0) all the suggestions so far, leaving us with 137 cards to put into the vault. However, we haven't put in any pillars/pendulums yet. Should we look at how many we'll need there next?

Well, assume we play no immo decks and we use about 14 pills/pends per deck with a maximum of 7 decks, would put us at 98 pills/pends. This is an overestimate. I think we would need more pendulums than pillars, so maybe take something like 40 pills and 60 pends? What do the vets have to say about it?

[deuce22]

The natural substitute for Dim Shield is Lightning for a faster and more versatile deck. Too bad we can't take more more than 24 Lightnings. :p
We can take off-element CC, such as RoF which is great for any Fire/Aether decks we'll make, but too much of it and it'll be useless against the invulnerable creatures they'll salvage from us or bring from the start. I like the prospect of Fog Shield and OE's to give us lasting power there.

Definitely.  I remember someone talking about a PU OE deck a while back (sorry, too lazy to look up who) which sounded very tempting.  It takes a few rares though, but from the looks of it everyone's dedicated to gathering those anyways so surely it isn't a problem.

Here's the OE PU deck I created a few weeks ago (posted in the decks thread). Didn't test it too much, so it may need a little tweak

by deuce22

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5og 5og 5og 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 61r 61r 61r 61r 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 8pr

[willng3]

I was thinking of a similar number myself.  The Nova and Immo decks both mean that those are two less decks where we need to take an ungodly number of Pends/Pillars in order to sustain ourselves, which means we probably don't need to take as many as the last war team did.  And that amount was...121 total.  A number ~100-110 total is probably a safe bet for us right now.

The natural substitute for Dim Shield is Lightning for a faster and more versatile deck. Too bad we can't take more more than 24 Lightnings. :p
We can take off-element CC, such as RoF which is great for any Fire/Aether decks we'll make, but too much of it and it'll be useless against the invulnerable creatures they'll salvage from us or bring from the start. I like the prospect of Fog Shield and OE's to give us lasting power there.

Definitely.  I remember someone talking about a PU OE deck a while back (sorry, too lazy to look up who) which sounded very tempting.  It takes a few rares though, but from the looks of it everyone's dedicated to gathering those anyways so surely it isn't a problem.

Here's the OE PU deck I created a few weeks ago (posted in the decks thread). Didn't test it too much, so it may need a little tweak

by willng3

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5og 5og 5og 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 5ol 61r 61r 61r 61r 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 63a 8pr

I like it.  Simple, effective, and doesn't seem to have extreme quanta issues from a first glance.  We can use Wings in place of Fog if we don't want to take them into the Vault, but they're awesome anyways so we may as well.

[Higurashi]

Oh, I also have to mention the fact that Mind Flayers+Purify have absolutely wrecked Death and Water in the past, whether it's with only Water mark or with Aether pends and Fractal. Those matchups make me chuckle. Once again though, there's the question of predictability and versatility. Mind Flayer is great against many elements, and we can Fractal it unlike Lobo, and Purify is good against Water and Death. Those Bone Walls and Freezes would wreck our Immo and Nova decks.

That OE deck is going to have too much and too little , btw. +1 PU, -1 Pend, but Air pillars would be optimal, really.

[deuce22]

Oh, I also have to mention the fact that Mind Flayers+Purify have absolutely wrecked Death and Water in the past, whether it's with only Water mark or with Aether pends and Fractal. Those matchups make me chuckle. Once again though, there's the question of predictability and versatility. Mind Flayer is great against many elements, and we can Fractal it unlike Lobo, and Purify is good against Water and Death. Those Bone Walls and Freezes would wreck our Immo and Nova decks.

This was the basic deck that was used in last war that I posted.
Purified Mind

by deuce22

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink

Deck import code : [Select]

5ia 5ia 5if 5if 5if 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61q 61q 61q 61q 61t 61t 61t 61u 61v 61v 620 620 620 620 8pp

This deck was very effective as a counter to death (and water). 4-1 overall. the one loss was against a specific counter.

That OE deck is going to have too much and too little , btw. +1 PU, -1 Pend, but Air pillars would be optimal, really.

agreed. I think that was the issue I was running into when I tested it.

[EngPhys]

I tried the OE deck and that's exactly what happened. We have less than two days left, so unless we can work out some kinks, the least promising decks probably have to go.

[Higurashi]

Aye, I'll be putting stuff into the vault later today. We can edit it all we want, so I'll be using the real one right away.