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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg504707#msg504707
« Reply #72 on: May 27, 2012, 07:12:09 pm »
The first Aether counter to Dims came with Silence. Aether was already good at countering itself, and Psion doesn't do -that- much because it's easily Lobotomized. It did add another deck type that can do it; Fractal Psions, but it's not a competitive deck type. It's not terrible either though.

...however, the "counters" furball here is mentioning are of course not really close to it. PC remains the only actual counter. The rest have been overcome time and time again by good ol' Monoaether. Be careful when using the word "counter".
Counter has many meanings.
I think the applicable meaning is "Able to remove, mitigate, negate, ignore or bypass"
Rushing is a counter to Dim Shield because it bypasses Dim Shield by being earlier.
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Offline HigurashiTopic starter

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg504717#msg504717
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2012, 07:41:01 pm »
Mitigate does not fit in. Dims are a counter to rushing. PC is a counter to Dims.
A counter always wins against another strategy/card if they both play out (PC). A soft counter usually wins (Poison, Bolts) (could fit mitigate here if it's so much mitigation it renders something ineffective). A hard counter can win even if you don't pull it fast enough or need less quantity of it (Pulvy).

An intended counter is not always a counter (Momentum, BE, UG, etc.). Often this is due to other parts of the decks (Lobo, Lightning, faster offence than Air user even despite Fog Shield).

However soft counters can of course become hard thanks to other cards (Fractal Chargers, draw power for UG's).
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg504799#msg504799
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2012, 10:51:03 pm »
Mitigate does not fit in. Dims are a counter to rushing. PC is a counter to Dims.
A counter always wins against another strategy/card if they both play out (PC). A soft counter usually wins (Poison, Bolts) (could fit mitigate here if it's so much mitigation it renders something ineffective). A hard counter can win even if you don't pull it fast enough or need less quantity of it (Pulvy).

An intended counter is not always a counter (Momentum, BE, UG, etc.). Often this is due to other parts of the decks (Lobo, Lightning, faster offence than Air user even despite Fog Shield).

However soft counters can of course become hard thanks to other cards (Fractal Chargers, draw power for UG's).
Your definition of counter is more applicable to decks rather than to cards.

I  am using a definition of counter that applies to sentences like "Lava Golem is countered by Lightning." rather than sentences like "Devtal is countered by ImmoRush."

However mitigation does happen at the deck level in some cases: USEM mitigates the rushing potential of ImmoRush via Heals. This slows ImmoRush down but does not stop ImmoRush (aka mitigates). In the end USEM sometimes is faster than the slowed ImmoRush. Aka Heal is a soft counter[mitigation] vs Rushing that USEM uses to its advantage.

PS: Fast Rushes are a soft counter to Dim Shield which is a hard counter to normal Rushes. Dim Shield does leave a few turns unprotected afterall.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2012, 10:53:47 pm by OldTrees »
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Offline HigurashiTopic starter

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg504813#msg504813
« Reply #75 on: May 27, 2012, 11:23:54 pm »
Not really. A Dim can usually go up turn 2 in upped decks and turn 3 in unupped ones. I'm sure you know there's no unupped deck that can kill in 3 turns. After that Monoaether autowins. Hard counter.

I actually used two definitions depending on if we're talking about a card or a deck. I very clearly only compare cards when I say PC is a counter to Dims.
Then I very clearly compare decks and how combinations can turn soft counter cards into hard ones. These cards are in theory counters, but need a little help (because Dims are OP *sillyface*).

Right, Heal mitigates damage. Unfortunately it's one-time and the mitigation does not turn it into a soft counter because it's not powerful enough (as I mentioned). That's why Immorush wins most of the time. If anything you're describing how a faster rush is a soft counter to a rush, but I think intention is an important factor here.
When you're facing a rush with another rush, you don't really talk about "counters", because it's more up to the nature of the decks and the draws. For instance, an Aether rush wouldn't call itself countered if it got rushed by Life.

Now, if USEM had CC instead... let's imagine two Fire rushes (non-Immo) where one has 6 Rage Potions and the other has no CC. The CC is a soft counter to the creatures, but by no means a complete counter because you're still just trading one card for another (for a slightly lower cost).
If these rushes were Immorushes, it'd be a counter. RT's would be even harder counter. If it had no PC or Bolts, Dims would be a hard counter. If it had Bolts and no PC, Dims would be a softer counter, but still result in an easy win most of the time.

Man, this is off-topic.
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Offline vivimancer

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg506880#msg506880
« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2012, 02:42:45 pm »
I've seen 3 decks based on this card in pvp1,

rise of the aether rush perhaps?

Offline furballdn

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg507031#msg507031
« Reply #77 on: June 02, 2012, 11:38:48 pm »
I've seen 3 decks based on this card in pvp1,

rise of the aether rush perhaps?
Not really rush, but it does bring some cost effective attackers to mono aether. 4 quanta for 4|4 and shield bypass is pretty good unupped.

Offline asiantraceur

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg507086#msg507086
« Reply #78 on: June 03, 2012, 04:54:43 am »
You prollu already know this but just saying not necessarily shield bypass cuz of some reflective shields... :P

Offline ash le sombre

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg507196#msg507196
« Reply #79 on: June 03, 2012, 11:41:19 am »
Very nice design. Good job !
the attack strategy of the creature is interesting & Quintessence becomes more and more dangerous

Offline vivimancer

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg507413#msg507413
« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2012, 12:03:17 am »
I've seen 3 decks based on this card in pvp1,

rise of the aether rush perhaps?
Not really rush, but it does bring some cost effective attackers to mono aether. 4 quanta for 4|4 and shield bypass is pretty good unupped.

also makes a 'refreshing' change from the same old dim shield and dragon combo that aether players ALWAYS run

Offline Zaealix

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg509246#msg509246
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2012, 01:24:30 am »
Now if only other elements had access to spell damage, things would be VERY interesting...
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Offline furballdn

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg509265#msg509265
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2012, 02:08:17 am »
Now if only other elements had access to spell damage, things would be VERY interesting...
It would. It'd be an interesting form of soft CC to bypass shields and :light and :life might want some.

Offline Asinickle

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Re: Psion | Psion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=39177.msg510646#msg510646
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2012, 09:59:51 pm »
Amazing art, pretty good effect, and good cost:attack for an ether creature. Seems good for mono ether decks, but, I'm afraid it won't be seen too much otherwise? =/

 

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