Phase Salvager | Phase Salvager

[storyteller]

Then give evidence to support that?

I dont feel a need to justify myself. Im content to simply have an opinion.

[waterzx]

what permanents in element for gravity vs permanents in element for aether do you think prompted the change in shift?

a phase salvager without a need to buff is very, very powerful.

Last I checked, salvage doesn't only work on in-element perms...

Lets say you want to combo dims with salvage ability. A deck with gravy salvager would be more effective than phase salvager. You will have more room in your deck for other attacking cards, it will be more consistent since it doesn't require a combo, and gravy salv is more resistant to CC than a buffed phase salv.

For the third time, gravy salvager basically makes phase salvager dead.

I think Storyteller's words is not about the comparison between graviton and phase salvagers. It's about WHY phase salvager was nerfed in the first place. It's because of the dimensional shield.

Assume phase salvager stayed at his previous form, no buffing is needed, aether can easily become almost the most powerful element in the game. Unending dim. shield chains which can only be countered by  , and  itself (and to a very  limited extent,  ). Most PC become useless against a dim. shield chain. At the same time, the psion keeps launching unblockable bolts at you while lightning kills every creatures with momentum or opponents' psion.

It's simply just too game-breaking for a mono-aether to have the original phase salvager. This is why it becomes necessary to nerf the phase salvager.

You're also saying that the current phase salvager is dead but you are under the assumption that everyone uses  .

I doubt anyone would try to incorporate  in their deck just to use the salvagers. If people are trying to build a deck NOT using  , they can still turn to  , if they find the way to keep the phase salvager alive. Phase salvager is not dead, it still has its uses which cannot be provided by other cards. The real dead cards are the Antlion....

[OldTrees]

Assume phase salvager stayed at his previous form, no buffing is needed, aether can easily become almost the most powerful element in the game. Unending dim. shield chains which can only be countered by  , and  itself (and to a very  limited extent,  ). Most PC become useless against a dim. shield chain. At the same time, the psion keeps launching unblockable bolts at you while lightning kills every creatures with momentum or opponents' psion.

Some corrections:
1) Dimensional Shield cannot be extended past 18 turns without opponent cooperation. (The opponent must destroy the Dimensional Shield in order for you to get another.)
2) If I have 25 attack on my side of the field and I have 4 uses of PC, I have defeated a Phase Salvager supported Dimensional Shield.

[waterzx]

Some corrections:
1) Dimensional Shield cannot be extended past 18 turns without opponent cooperation. (The opponent must destroy the Dimensional Shield in order for you to get another.)
2) If I have 25 attack on my side of the field and I have 4 uses of PC, I have defeated a Phase Salvager supported Dimensional Shield.

1. 18 turns are more than enough to kill the opponent, isn't it ? The common way(other than using a dedicated stalling deck) to win against dim. shield chain is to break the 18 turn chains into pieces. And an in-element salvaging makes it too difficult to break through.

2. Of course everything can be beaten by RNG. You happen to get out at least 25 attacks on field and the opponent has no form of CC, while you happen to draw 4 PC out of your decks before you get killed by immortal creatures and the almost unblockable psion. Don't forget that except someone is using a stall, you rarely go through 18 turns, not to mention that you have slight chance of drawing 4 PC in time unless you are using a dedicated anti-stalling deck.

[OldTrees]

Some corrections:
1) Dimensional Shield cannot be extended past 18 turns without opponent cooperation. (The opponent must destroy the Dimensional Shield in order for you to get another.)
2) If I have 25 attack on my side of the field and I have 4 uses of PC, I have defeated a Phase Salvager supported Dimensional Shield.

1. 18 turns are more than enough to kill the opponent, isn't it ? The common way(other than using a dedicated stalling deck) to win against dim. shield chain is to break the 18 turn chains into pieces. And an in-element salvaging makes it too difficult to break through.

2. Of course everything can be beaten by RNG. You happen to get out at least 25 attacks on field and the opponent has no form of CC, while you happen to draw 4 PC out of your decks before you get killed by immortal creatures and the almost unblockable psion. Don't forget that except someone is using a stall, you rarely go through 18 turns, not to mention that you have slight chance of drawing 4 PC in time unless you are using a dedicated anti-stalling deck.

1) You said unending. A common misreading of salvage is thinking that self PC triggers salvage. It does not. (I was merely clarifying this point regardless about whether you understood it or not)
2) I was pointing out that PC would still be an effective counter to a Dimensional Shield chain provided your deck had 6 copies and good offense. (Like  which you left out)

[waterzx]

1) You said unending. A common misreading of salvage is thinking that self PC triggers salvage. It does not. (I was merely clarifying this point regardless about whether you understood it or not)
2) I was pointing out that PC would still be an effective counter to a Dimensional Shield chain provided your deck had 6 copies and good offense. (Like  which you left out)

PC might still be effective but it's still pretty powerful for  to have the original salvager, given that  now has a much stronger rush ability thanks to psion.

And I still doubt that one can accumulate enough damage and enough PC to deal with dim. shields before psion wins the game.

Although it is true that with enough destructive PC, it can still bring down the shield chains, most decks are not designed to have so many PC. If you insist to pack 6 explosion in your decks, you are losing a lot when facing decks which have no special permanents.

At the end of day, you are still playing that rock-paper-scissor game, using a dedicated anti-stalling deck in the hope that your opponent is using a stall deck. I'm not sure that keeping this kind of game play going is good idea. Too much RNG has already hurt the game. The rock-paper-scissor game type turns this game further from a strategy card game to a luck-based game.

[sk1ll3t]

i can t understand how this card is working 

[Drake_XIV]

i can t understand how this card is working 

While Phase Salvager remains on the field, when a permanent on your side is destroyed by your opponent by means of Permanent Control but not Stolen[e.g. Explosion, Pulverizer, Shard of Focus, Butterfly Effect], a copy is added to your hand.

That being said, Salvage only affects the owner's side of the field, yes?

[Kuroaitou]

That being said, Salvage only affects the owner's side of the field, yes?

I think so. Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense (they destroy one of their own permanents, like a Sundial, Unstable Gas, or whatnot, and get it back). XD

That being said, this is a slightly weird card (and I find it hilarious that Aether gets another 0 HPster), but I would probably find more potent strategies with the Graviton Salvager when it comes to soft permanent 'protection'.

[Drake_XIV]

I was wondering since Salvager does not tell which side of the field it affects, so if an opponent destroys their own permanent, would you get a copy of said permanent?

[aerendhil]

erh, I need help here : what is the point of this card ?
Unless buffed, which cannot be done mono-aether, this creature will never will be alive on opponent's turn, so salvaging is useless.

[Angriness]

This card and blessing, best strat ever