Fractal | Fractal

[ddevans96]

This nerf might lead to suicide

People would have said the very same thing about the Sundial nerf.

However, I don't think anybody is surprised to see the nerf happen in some form to Fractal.  Even those who love the card would say that an increase in cost is border-line needed.

Change, yeah, nerf, probably. But making it a full turn slower? Just no.

[Dragoon1140]

Change, yeah, nerf, probably. But making it a full turn slower? Just no.

You'll have to excuse me, since I didn't read this whole thread, but a cost nerf is supposed to do that.  What exactly was the expectation from others when they think of a cost increase?

[ddevans96]

Making it a turn slower wouldn't be a turn slower if the card didn't drain quanta after use, and if aether decks weren't expensive as is.

[Dragoon1140]

Making it a turn slower wouldn't be a turn slower if the card didn't drain quanta after use, and if aether decks weren't expensive as is.

You know, perhaps Zanz should make a card that allows for some stall while you gather up what little Aether quanta you have... oh wait! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,17264.0.html)

[smuglapse]

What. Uh.. yes, what Wizardcat said. The main weakness of Hope has always been bad draws, because it does so many things at once without using Quantum Towers/Supernova. In Trainer, I ran it with 4 Fractals and one more tower. Works flawlessly. The nerf barely affects it outside of what I have already mentioned in previous posts. It hits pendulum Fractal decks much more.

I just found a problem with balancing anti-AI decks while cards are still in development.  EP played Silence on me.  It is really hard to know how well your anti-FG deck will actually perform because the AI decks are bloated with cards they may not be able to use or are not part of their strategy.  Whatever changes you made to your RoL/Hope may not work once 1.26 goes live.

EDIT: Looking through decks, it actually might only be about 2 per deck.  So it's not as bad as I thought, but something to think about if you are trying to balance an anti-AI deck.

(http://imageplay.net/)

[kobisjeruk]

It'll make decay a bit easier too.

so the nerfing wont affect EP

it will affect Decay somewhat but i think its for the better since that SOB keeps chaining fractal like crazy as it is anyway

Why was the best FG farmer (since sundials, which were OP, I agree) killed? Because a +1 cost nerf was, surprisingly, not enough to counter the existence of a deck with a winning rate close to 60% which, by the way, wasn't even the best FG farmer at the time.

Have to invoke one of Gl1tch's Laws®.  Cards should not be balanced around interaction with FGs, as the FG decks and AI can be changed.  Balancing should be based on Player vs Player (Pimp to Pimp).

i only posted that directly in response to higurashi's comment
and yeah, i've just woken up

[Nume]

Theres a difference between balancing cards around AI and just simply discussing what effects a change might have on existing AI. Noone commented that EP or Decay's decks should cause this change to be different. They were just talking about what could happen with them with this change.

[Marvaddin]

The Point is Fractal was overpowered due to effect, not cost.

^^This

I completelly agree. This IS the fact. And that was valid to Sundial, too. It was nerfed by changing its effect. Fractal nerf is nothing. It will still be a super OP card, just not as good as always. I bet the RoL Hope deck will adapt and survive. I also love the part of Eternal Phoenix and Decay becoming easier. I have a CCYB, have a timebow, and using Fractal on them will be the same as always (not affected at all). BUT...

I also think this is the wrong way to nerf. I would much more prefer 7x , no quanta draining, you get up to 4 copies of the card. The copies related to quanta drained is also a great option. 3x , gain a copy of target creature. Gain an additional copy for each 3x quanta. Drains all aether quanta.

[Glitch]

I still think that the elements community, due to it's... nature... would be more supportive of this nerf if Ferox was fractal frog.  EP isn't strong because of the phoenix, people, it's difficult because there are thirteen of them.

[guy_fawkes]

The Point is Fractal was overpowered due to effect, not cost.

Have to agree with Kael here...
my idea was :you get the card x3 with a slightly lowered cost and the same draining effect...

[karthikking]

First:

Have to invoke one of Gl1tch's Laws®.  Cards should not be balanced around interaction with FGs, as the FG decks and AI can be changed.  Balancing should be based on Player vs Player (Pimp to Pimp).

^^This.  The first round of FG-deck nerfs that hit FFQ, Fallen Druid, and such weren't really helpful in terms of PVP balance -- in fact, in particular, the FFQ nerf was a huge and unnecessary slap in the face for .  If this nerf is also in response to the fact that RoL/Hope is a decent anti-FG deck, it's equally bad.

Second, all you fools who are saying this means we have to go back to stallbows need to be introduced to my good friend Sha'kar. 

I switched to Sha'kars a couple weeks ago, so this change does not affect me

[Hotshot2k4]

edit to above suggestion. While it makes sense and would weaken rushes, it would actually make RoLs a bit stronger, and not be much of an obstacle for devour/pest decks, which are in my opinion the most annoying uses for fractal.

It would most certainly hurt Fractal Pests, but indeed, it would not hurt Fractal RoL or destroy Fractal Phoenix with Cremations for that matter, IMO these three are the nastiest Fractal decks. So you would end up nerfing it for anything but the decks that made Fractal marked as OP. Aren't Fractal decks the foremost non-rainbow decks that farm fgs? That alone should be a clue.

It would hurt fractal pests, but because they are their own quanta generation source, it would slow the deck down (especially the first fractal), but be unlikely to stop it unless the opposing deck already had some countermeasures for that type of quanta denial.

Have to invoke one of Gl1tch's Laws®.  Cards should not be balanced around interaction with FGs, as the FG decks and AI can be changed.  Balancing should be based on Player vs Player (Pimp to Pimp).

I was just saying it's an extra benefit against an annoying FG, not that it was an important reason for the nerf, or a reason at all for that matter.