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Offline Evil Combat

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg38946#msg38946
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 12:52:09 am »
how about change the quanta drain to to targets creatures element to prevent instant spam?

Offline Essence

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg38947#msg38947
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2010, 12:54:25 am »
Actually, EvilCombat, I think that that's an excellent idea.  +Karma. 

Fractal is actually quite strong in that it allows control decks (like most FG rainbows) to have one copy of their kill-creature, and then just create 3-7 more in hand by Fractaling it.  Also, Life+Aether with Frogs, Fractal, and Feral Bonds is just plain fun.  RIBBIT!
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Offline Marvaddin

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39128#msg39128
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2010, 05:43:03 am »
I dislike the idea, I think the worst abuse is playing several fractals and playing those creatures that costs 0. Remember: although ball lightning will not be an option because it is Aether, this could make trouble to the creation of any new creature that has 0 cost. On other hand, fractal creatures like dragons becomes completely pointless, once you cant play them for several turns. So I think we should stick with draining aether quanta, AND reduce fractal cost to 7 or 8 again (9 is simply too much).

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39238#msg39238
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2010, 02:57:36 pm »
What if:

Fractal were made into a creature, 0,6 for both versions, and the quanta cost were 6  :entropy ?

Fractal seems like a good name for an entropy-related card.  Slowing it the card down by a turn and making it multi quanta cost would go a ways in balancing it.

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39245#msg39245
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2010, 03:15:51 pm »
What if:

Fractal were made into a creature, 0,6 for both versions, and the quanta cost were 6  :entropy ?

Fractal seems like a good name for an entropy-related card.  Slowing it the card down by a turn and making it multi quanta cost would go a ways in balancing it.
Why would a Fractal be Entropy?  Math is supposedly ordered and structured, and Entropy is exactly not.

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39266#msg39266
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2010, 04:33:00 pm »
If the description doesn't deceive me, you can also use this against your opponent.

Perhaps it may sound absurd, but as mentioned, this card has limited uses outside of a few specific low cost cards. The high cost of the card itself limits much of its usefulness. I get a feeling this will be drafted aside once implemented, unless it is for niche situations, like Nymph Tears.

Being part of the Aether set, it is tricky because the nature of the card *DOES NOT* let "Fractal" an Aether creature and then play it 5-6 times. As for Rainbows/Duo decks, it will have more usage, but the expensive cost of it coupled with the expensive cost of a multitude of the better cards will make Fractal a card used in limited amounts.

The only situation I can easily think of are Light/Aether decks capitalising on Hope, or Aether/Fire, but with Phoenix/Ash, I think Mono-Fire would be stronger than Aether/Fire. I cannot really think of an elemental duo combination that Fractal would be useful for, since it is difficult to gather enough Quanta to play Fractal in the first few turns of a game on average.

 I can imagine Fractal being used:

- Bringing one creature card and fractal it, then spamming it. Works great in speed life decks, but not so much other speed decks. Doesn't avoid the problem of running a duo deck, and adding +5 creatures would beat adding 5++ cards to set up an effective duo.

Offline Essence

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39469#msg39469
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2010, 10:01:42 pm »
Frogtal.  Enough said.  :)
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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39514#msg39514
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2010, 10:50:11 pm »
I've got one question, but I'm not sure if it is the right place to ask...

why do AI other than :aether ones use Fractal?
I mean I've been fighting eg. :darkness / :earth halfblood in the trainer and it used fractal (using quanta from quantum pillars) to multiply vampires... but Fractal is neither :darkness nor :earth, so why did he have this card?

Is it because this way it is easier to test if the card is balanced before it will be included in the real game, but when it does AI5 will not use it unless he is half :aether ?
Or will all halfbloods use Fractals after these cards are added to the real game?
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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39546#msg39546
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2010, 11:25:27 pm »
Whenever he creates new cards, Zanz adds a copy of each new card to every AI deck, just to test how it's used in a variety of situations so he can optimize the code for it's targeting.
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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39677#msg39677
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2010, 02:23:16 am »
If the description doesn't deceive me, you can also use this against your opponent.

Perhaps it may sound absurd, but as mentioned, this card has limited uses outside of a few specific low cost cards. The high cost of the card itself limits much of its usefulness. I get a feeling this will be drafted aside once implemented, unless it is for niche situations, like Nymph Tears.

Being part of the Aether set, it is tricky because the nature of the card *DOES NOT* let "Fractal" an Aether creature and then play it 5-6 times. As for Rainbows/Duo decks, it will have more usage, but the expensive cost of it coupled with the expensive cost of a multitude of the better cards will make Fractal a card used in limited amounts.

The only situation I can easily think of are Light/Aether decks capitalising on Hope, or Aether/Fire, but with Phoenix/Ash, I think Mono-Fire would be stronger than Aether/Fire. I cannot really think of an elemental duo combination that Fractal would be useful for, since it is difficult to gather enough Quanta to play Fractal in the first few turns of a game on average.

 I can imagine Fractal being used:

- Bringing one creature card and fractal it, then spamming it. Works great in speed life decks, but not so much other speed decks. Doesn't avoid the problem of running a duo deck, and adding +5 creatures would beat adding 5++ cards to set up an effective duo.
This is what I said: doesnt have thaaaaat big use (well, maybe in late game), so in fact 9 quanta AND draining is too much.

What do you say about this? 6 Quanta, no draining, and it gives you up to three (or maybe 4 for 7 quanta) copies of the creature? Would it be fine?

redtom7

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg39697#msg39697
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2010, 03:22:31 am »
If the description doesn't deceive me, you can also use this against your opponent.

Perhaps it may sound absurd, but as mentioned, this card has limited uses outside of a few specific low cost cards. The high cost of the card itself limits much of its usefulness. I get a feeling this will be drafted aside once implemented, unless it is for niche situations, like Nymph Tears.

Being part of the Aether set, it is tricky because the nature of the card *DOES NOT* let "Fractal" an Aether creature and then play it 5-6 times. As for Rainbows/Duo decks, it will have more usage, but the expensive cost of it coupled with the expensive cost of a multitude of the better cards will make Fractal a card used in limited amounts.

The only situation I can easily think of are Light/Aether decks capitalising on Hope, or Aether/Fire, but with Phoenix/Ash, I think Mono-Fire would be stronger than Aether/Fire. I cannot really think of an elemental duo combination that Fractal would be useful for, since it is difficult to gather enough Quanta to play Fractal in the first few turns of a game on average.

 I can imagine Fractal being used:

- Bringing one creature card and fractal it, then spamming it. Works great in speed life decks, but not so much other speed decks. Doesn't avoid the problem of running a duo deck, and adding +5 creatures would beat adding 5++ cards to set up an effective duo.
well fractal with scarab is  pretty scary isn't it?

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Re: New Card: Fractal / Fractal https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3946.msg40031#msg40031
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2010, 11:47:41 pm »
Gameplay later, but first... the art. This is not much of a fractal, IMNVEO, fractals are meant to be infinitely repeating patterns or something.


 

blarg: