Post by: icybraker on January 11, 2010, 11:46:26 pm
Post by: Kamietsu on January 12, 2010, 12:38:06 am
Post by: Avenger on January 14, 2010, 12:10:16 pm
Post by: Kamietsu on January 14, 2010, 12:27:22 pm
Bone walls are usually work better, depending on opponent creature count.3 opponent creatures is I say when you should use this instead of a bonewall. 3 creatures attacking for three turns is 9, eliminating bone wall. 2 creatures only make it to 6.
Post by: Cambadillac on January 22, 2010, 06:48:14 pm
-It does the best job of preventing damage
-because it last only 3 turns, it is OK to add more than 2 (i have 5 in my pvp deck, thats 15 turns of no damage) in a deck which means there is a higher chance to get one early. Other shields are bad to have more than a few of because once you have it on, the duplicates in the deck are pretty much a waste of a card slot (unless it gets defraged or so but still).
-It is a predictable shield- unlike dusk and some others with a random effect, i dont like relying on randomness.
-if it is stolen, you wont be completely crippled because it will no last them long.
best shield period. :P
Post by: icybraker on January 22, 2010, 11:09:40 pm
-"it does the best job of preventing damage." very arguable. With 1 protected Fire Buckler, one can completely shut down a deck based around Lava Golems. However, even if you continually chain Phase Shields (or even protect them), you'll probably run out of time and get killed. The same may apply for Gravity Shields; who cares if the opponent is chaining Abyss Crawlers if not one of them can hit you? Additionally, a bucketful of Quantum Towers and a Dim Shield can deflect damage for a very, very long time. Bonewall can often prevent damage just as well as Phase Shield can, even better in many cases. Plus, Bonewall can be synergized with many other cards and strategies, while Phase Shield is just there to buy you time and stop damage. i'm not saying it's not useful; it just doesn't have as much synergy.
-your second example is valid; it's one of the reasons Phase Shield is awesome.
-Dusk shield and Fog Shield are not good shields. They're weak. :D
-Your third example is also valid. But the Bonewall is even better - deflags only take off 1 layer, and so do Steals.
All in all, a very nice, reliable shield that can be a game-changer. However, many other alternatives exist with varied functions that are also very useful. This and Bonewall are surely 2 of the top shields in the game.
Post by: Cambadillac on January 22, 2010, 11:31:37 pm
I know about bonewalls, steals and defrags. About being defraged etc, yes bonewall has the upper hand.
Bonewalls require ammunition, if you want to think of it that way, which mean that a deck must include creature control (basically creature damage) to be useful. I use to run bonewalls in my FG farmer. Post 1.17, it was lacking in the protection department because it relied on FStorm timing and oty placement. That led to many losses and made FGs very hard. Since then i completely removed bonewalls (believe it or not) and added 4 EXTREMELY useful Phase shields. Now my FG farmer is very, very successful. I also took out all the sundials.
In my 30 card pvp deck (flying titans for the curious) I stall with 5 phase shield (what ever the upped one is called). 5 of those is 15 turns of safeness.
7 cards are drawn on turn 1, that leaves 23 cards left (basically 23 turns)
23 minus 15 = 8 (asumming one of the PS is not in the last 8 cards)
i have rarely made it to 8 cards left. I either win or lose by then. The win or lose point is usually around when 15-12 cards are left. that means that most of the time i play, there is a phase shield protecting me (most of the time :)).
There are many uses for both bonewall and PS. i like both and understand your points.
Post by: icybraker on January 23, 2010, 02:32:47 am
The main reason I only have 1 Phase Shield in my FG farmer is because I also have 2 Quintessences. :D I guess the Phase Shield is going to be used more now, after the Dial nerf, but with the introduction of Quintessence I've had to sacrifice it in order to balance. I have 2 Bonewalls, 1 Fire Buckler (mostly for Divine Glory), and 1 Phase Shield as my primary shields. I'm also considering Permafrost, but I already have a Ulitharid in the water slot, am considering an Octopus, and want to keep my deck small.
Post by: Cambadillac on January 23, 2010, 09:44:04 pm
Post by: icybraker on January 23, 2010, 09:53:00 pm
Post by: Lanidrak on January 23, 2010, 10:05:49 pm
As for getting back on topic and the debate between Bone-Wall and Phase-Shield.. They are both, equally the best shields in the game - in terms of avoiding damage. The true strength comes from when a Rainbow Deck uses both of them (as almost every FG deck does). I save my Bone-Walls for late-game, ideally when I have a quintessence'd Otyugh in play and 2 Fire Storms in my hand. My record has been 62 Charges on my Bone-Wall. Fire Storm'd Morte twice and then he Plagued my Skeleton Force a couple times ;).
But the Phase Shield, as pointed out, is like a 3 turn sundial with no card-drawing-ability. Absolutely crucial for stalling and letting your opponent/AI draw out his creatures before you strike!
Post by: ddviper001 on April 01, 2010, 03:41:32 am
Post by: alienorigin on April 15, 2010, 08:32:18 pm
this shield is worded to block physical attacks, if a creature is antimattered it's still a physical attack, it just helps rather than harms, but it still has to hit to actually deal the health. My question is why does an antimattered creature still hit through this shield?
if this belongs somewhere else I apologize, just figured this one made sense...maybe I should put it in the antimatter section instead.
Post by: icybraker on April 15, 2010, 10:44:50 pm
Question,Antimatter passes through EVERY shield, not just Phase Shield. Try it out sometime.
this shield is worded to block physical attacks, if a creature is antimattered it's still a physical attack, it just helps rather than harms, but it still has to hit to actually deal the health. My question is why does an antimattered creature still hit through this shield?
if this belongs somewhere else I apologize, just figured this one made sense...maybe I should put it in the antimatter section instead.
(I think ) the reason this is is because when a creature is antimatter'd, it no longer does damage. It deals out healing rather than damage, and healing can bypass shields because shields are intended to block damage. For example, if you have 6 creatures out, a Phase Shield, and a Feral Bond, the bond will still heal you, even with the shield. The same applies to all other forms of healing - Shard of Gratitude and Heal, to name a few, are unaffected by shields.
Post by: Jaxly on April 16, 2010, 05:49:07 pm
For PVP - I despise it.
Permanent control is usualy a must in order to beat a deck with multiple copies of Ps.
That means that this single card counters mono- Earth, Life, Light, Water, Air, Time and and Phase shieldless Aether (though theres few of those) Death decks may be able to bypass through poison but it's still a very serious damage reducer. Enthropy has the destroy ability, which again is a rare enough card in PVP. Gravity has momentum and many momentum decks (again rare) are built solely to counter Phase Shield reliant decks. Fire and darkness are great against it, pulvy too but then thats about it (I'm excluding all rainbow decks, which regardless probably wouldn't have more than 3 Perm controls). And now heres my problem; PVP is largely dominated by Fire, Darkness and Aether decks. I think that this domination revolves around this one card. Now, I know that there are many other fantastic reasons why these three are great PVP'rs and that if it wasn't this permanent it'd probably be some other permanent I'd have gripes with etc. But still.. I think PVP is hampered by lack of variety and that this card (or the lack of other elements ability to deal with it) is the root of the problem.
Sorry about the long rant.. I just got pwned by a Phase shield deck :-[
Post by: dragonhuman on April 30, 2010, 05:59:46 pm
immortals, phase dragons, and dim shields
Post by: Lanidrak on April 30, 2010, 07:10:28 pm
still fricken hate the untouchable deck18 Aether Pillars
immortals, phase dragons, and dim shields
6 Phase Dragons
6 Dimension Shields
It's the only deck I know to have a 99% win rate against AI-3.
Even with Fire Shields (the only thing that can damage Aetherial/Immortal creatures), it only takes 3 Phase Dragons to kill your opponent, considering they have 5 hitpoints, meaning they attack 5 times = 40 damage...
Post by: PuppyChow on May 01, 2010, 07:15:31 am
But it's still a good deck :).
Post by: jippy99 on May 17, 2010, 08:20:43 pm
Post by: Avenger on May 18, 2010, 10:56:41 am
Post by: Medivh on June 05, 2010, 09:52:22 pm
one of the best shields in the game up with bonewall procrastination permafrost and duskPersonally, and most people would agree, Procrastination and Dusk aer pretty crappy shields. Procras is a delay, and Dusk is based off luck. DS and BoneWall are guaranteed blocks, and im not sure about Perma. DS is one of my favorite cards of all time though, especially when buging my friends in PvP.
Post by: 918273645 on October 08, 2010, 05:45:04 pm
Lol at the Thunderbolt in the backround.
Post by: Immolation on October 16, 2010, 03:35:16 am
Post by: TheodorCo on October 19, 2010, 06:08:17 pm
Post by: Ryan666 on November 22, 2010, 03:33:06 pm
No perma control = loss.
Post by: Glitch on November 26, 2010, 07:56:41 pm
Post by: Gwenyvier on January 15, 2011, 07:44:03 pm
Good shield. Too bad it only lasts for 3 turns.While I agree with you from the "if you're the one using it" point of view, if it lasted too many more turns it would be exceedingly broken. It lasts 3 turns, meaning if you have 6 (and get them all out) that's 18 more or less untouchable turns. If it was even buffed to 5 turns (30 turns with 6) it would have incredible effects on the game, probably not good ones either.
Creating a control lock is fine and good, it's a standard deck type in any good CCG. But if you make the control lock too good/unstoppable then it throws the entire metagame into "this deck" and "counter to this deck".
Post by: ThugStyle on March 07, 2011, 04:53:06 pm
Post by: Higurashi on March 08, 2011, 10:59:38 am
Aw heck, I'll just link the coolest deck that uses it (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,22364.msg304498#msg304498) right now.
Post by: DrOctaganapus2 on March 15, 2011, 08:32:48 pm
I think this is the best shield in the game because:Great point. You just got yourself 1 Karma. (Whatever that does...)
-It does the best job of preventing damage
-because it last only 3 turns, it is OK to add more than 2 (i have 5 in my pvp deck, thats 15 turns of no damage) in a deck which means there is a higher chance to get one early. Other shields are bad to have more than a few of because once you have it on, the duplicates in the deck are pretty much a waste of a card slot (unless it gets defraged or so but still).
-It is a predictable shield- unlike dusk and some others with a random effect, i dont like relying on randomness.
-if it is stolen, you wont be completely crippled because it will no last them long.
best shield period. :P
Post by: wildgoldenpk on May 02, 2011, 08:52:44 am
Post by: daccoo on May 03, 2011, 07:53:20 pm
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/DimensionalShield.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/PhaseShield.png)Xexe only card atm that is going on my nerves more then dimensional shield is upgraded version of it :(
Post by: daccoo on May 03, 2011, 07:55:09 pm
I think this is the best shield in the game because:Great point. You just got yourself 1 Karma. (Whatever that does...)
-It does the best job of preventing damage
-because it last only 3 turns, it is OK to add more than 2 (i have 5 in my pvp deck, thats 15 turns of no damage) in a deck which means there is a higher chance to get one early. Other shields are bad to have more than a few of because once you have it on, the duplicates in the deck are pretty much a waste of a card slot (unless it gets defraged or so but still).
-It is a predictable shield- unlike dusk and some others with a random effect, i dont like relying on randomness.
-if it is stolen, you wont be completely crippled because it will no last them long.
best shield period. :P
well i think that Hope is better cuz you cant steeal it
Post by: daccoo on May 03, 2011, 07:56:40 pm
Quite. With the change to Cloak, you can now use Cloak to protect all your permanents and creatures for 3 turns. That's as many turns as this shield lasts. *hint hint*True cloak is more useful and it cost less elements.
Aw heck, I'll just link the coolest deck that uses it (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,22364.msg304498#msg304498) right now.
Post by: Higurashi on May 03, 2011, 08:03:55 pm
Also, just modify your post if you're the last poster. Double and triple-posting is frowned upon.
Post by: Sparks on June 27, 2011, 04:53:09 pm
Post by: DrOctaganapus2 on June 27, 2011, 06:25:44 pm
It costs 6 :aether quanta. I would rather get 4 more :aether and summon a Phase Dragon.
It only blocks for 3 turns. Compare that to a shield that blocks 3 damage and NEVER DISAPPEARS
Your still vunerable to Spells, Momentum
You will be wasting a lot of quanta to save You for 3 turns.
Post by: Higurashi on June 27, 2011, 06:35:28 pm
Post by: Xenocidius on July 20, 2011, 10:38:23 am
Post by: purewater156 on July 25, 2011, 11:33:03 am
Post by: Xenocidius on July 26, 2011, 08:08:38 am
This shield can kill some FGs when pairing up with phase dragon.Some FGs? Upped Mono Aether has a 47% winrate.
Post by: Jaymanfu on July 26, 2011, 08:24:42 am
Post by: Higurashi on July 26, 2011, 08:56:37 am
As for Arena, it is dominated by any deck when it's good enough and gets played enough. Last week we had four fire decks at #1 in -every- league, and yesterday we had two death decks as #1 in Bronze and Silver. It's pretty much the worst possible place to judge any kind of balance in any way.
Post by: aqwsz0 on July 28, 2011, 12:13:10 pm
Post by: pikachufan2164 on July 28, 2011, 12:36:19 pm
there is NO counter besides deflagration/explosion... i think... or stealThere's plenty of ways to counter Dim Shield chains.
Destroy it: Deflagration, Steal, Pulverizer, Butterfly Effect
Get around it: Sapphire Charger, Momentum, Titan
Direct damage: Fire Bolt, Ice Bolt, Drain Life, Unstable Gas, Catapult, Nightmare, Lightning, Shockwave, Voodoo Doll + Rage Potion, Voodoo Doll + Gravity Pull, Liquid Shadow + Antimatter
Deny quanta: Discord, Black Hole, Devourer, Earthquake, Poseidon
Post by: aqwsz0 on August 29, 2011, 01:41:45 pm
Post by: omegareaper7 on September 01, 2011, 04:09:57 am
Most OP Shield + Diamond Shield. LUV ITWhats this Overpowered shield you speak of, because dime shield isn't overpowered.
Post by: aqwsz0 on September 01, 2011, 12:43:00 pm
it FEELS right to me, at least, LOLMost OP Shield + Diamond Shield. LUV ITWhats this Overpowered shield you speak of, because dime shield isn't overpowered.
Post by: artise2012 on December 03, 2011, 12:58:26 am
Post by: SilverHearts on December 03, 2011, 03:50:25 am
Post by: pvpmister on December 15, 2011, 07:51:58 pm
Post by: ch987 on December 24, 2011, 12:59:11 am
Post by: furballdn on December 24, 2011, 01:04:21 am
Sometimes i think this is too cheap. I was in a game with 6 shriekers out, enemy had 4 hp, and he used a dimensional shield and beat me :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(...and btw this crying face looks EXTREMELY weird.Pack PC.
Post by: Fractal on January 26, 2012, 09:08:22 pm
Many newbie mono Aether decks fail because they trust too much on their shield. ::)
Post by: Chapuz on January 26, 2012, 11:46:37 pm
This card is great but a real pain in the ass if you don't have any sort of pillar control in your hand.Or permanent control. You can destroy it and steal it.
Many newbie mono Aether decks fail because they trust too much on their shield. ::)
Post by: vile on January 28, 2012, 03:07:04 am
Although its not mpossible to destroy it
Post by: Chapuz on January 28, 2012, 03:13:59 am
Overpowered. Not enough cost. Needs nerf.13 Ways to beat Dim shield spamming decks:
Although its not mpossible to destroy it
- Explotion
- Steal
- Momentum
- Chimera
- Butterfly Effect
- Pulvy
- Charger
- Poison
- Voodoo Doll damage
- Unstable Gas.
- Catapult
- Deckouting ragequit decks
- Devourier spammers
Post by: mozzery on February 09, 2012, 04:28:26 pm
Also, Chapuz, you missed fire bolt/fire lance stall as a way to beat dim shield span, also a silence on the turn before he would have to renew it gives you a turn to blast at him, which could be enough if he started chaining them at low health.
Post by: Poker Alho on February 09, 2012, 04:42:08 pm
you tell him chapuz! :POverpowered. Not enough cost. Needs nerf.13 Ways to beat Dim shield spamming decks:
Although its not mpossible to destroy itDim shield spammers beat nooby rushy decks, that only spam creatures thinking that the game is a race of who can get 100 damage before.
- Explotion
- Steal
- Momentum
- Chimera
- Butterfly Effect
- Pulvy
- Charger
- Poison
- Voodoo Doll damage
- Unstable Gas.
- Catapult
- Deckouting ragequit decks
- Devourier spammers
you are completely right i actually think dim shield is one of the few awesome cards that are holding back a future where there are only pure rush no-brainer decks in elements
Post by: OdinVanguard on February 09, 2012, 07:19:47 pm
- :fire => deflag, bolts
- :aether - do it right back, mind gate is a real killer there
- :darkness => steal, devourer, drain
- :water => ice bolt, frost shield for immaterials
- :earth => pulverizer w/ grav mark. Which is also quite general purpose
- :death => poison
- :gravity => momentum, catapult, gravity pull to stall
- :light => out heal it (indirect)
- :entropy => butterfly effect.
- :life => again out heal it, thorns shield for immaterials
- :air => gas w/ fire mark. This is a bit specific though so IMHO air needs a LITTLE help.
- :time => procrastination. Short of SoP / Dune Scorp though, this is a pretty tough one as a mono.
I think that does it. In my opinion only air and time could use some help, but some would argue this is true in general so the problem IS NOT with the shield itself.
I think its good as is.
Annoying when spammed? yes, but not game breaking if you put a little thought into your deck.
Post by: p1ayer on February 09, 2012, 10:15:06 pm
Post by: Chapuz on February 10, 2012, 07:16:45 pm
17+ Ways to beat Dim shield spamming decks: Your argument is invalid.
- Explotion.
- Steal.
- Momentum.
- Chimera.
- Butterfly Effect.
- Pulvy.
- Charger.
- Poison.
- Voodoo Doll damage.
- Unstable Gas.
- Catapult.
- Decking out with stall/ragequit decks.
- Devourier spammers.
- Discord even without Black Hole.
- Black Hole spam.
- Ghostmares.
- Earquakes
- Extra: Mutant with Steal and Destroy ability.
Post by: Seneka on April 21, 2012, 01:38:48 pm
Post by: Poker Alho on April 21, 2012, 02:17:44 pm
Should be nerfed. ;)
Unless you explain your opinion with convicing arguments, no logic reason to nerf it
Post by: Absol on April 21, 2012, 03:08:29 pm
To top that, it's written directly under the list of its counters.Should be nerfed. ;)
Unless you explain your opinion with convicing arguments, no logic reason to nerf it
No nerf needed, as been said.
Post by: killsdazombies on April 21, 2012, 03:22:58 pm
- Decking out with stall/ragequit decks.
- Devourier spammers.
- Discord even without Black Hole.
- Black Hole spam.
- Ghostmares.
- Earquakes
These aren't hard counters, there actually pretty soft, dimshield can outlast ghostmare, black holes, and it often is USED to deck out/stall. Really, i would say maybe 10 counters, however that is still quite a bit, which is a reason this does not merit a nerf.
Post by: Asinickle on June 12, 2012, 10:03:47 pm
Post by: nk12 on June 29, 2012, 05:58:19 am
Post by: Annele on June 29, 2012, 07:09:42 am
Post by: ddevans96 on June 29, 2012, 07:17:00 am
What would you guys say is the most popular deck with dim shields?
Mono-aether by far.
Post by: Annele on June 29, 2012, 08:37:55 am
What would you guys say is the most popular deck with dim shields?
Mono-aether by far.
Which one? Do you have a link?
Post by: Matteo Bassi on June 29, 2012, 03:27:46 pm
Post by: Chapuz on June 29, 2012, 04:55:02 pm
There are so many... many PVP 1 players use Psion, other ones dragons and immortals.What would you guys say is the most popular deck with dim shields?
Mono-aether by far.
Which one? Do you have a link?
Post by: summerz88 on January 04, 2013, 03:13:02 pm
Post by: aqwsz0 on January 12, 2013, 01:41:21 pm
Post by: Xenyx on February 03, 2013, 10:37:22 am
Just my 2 cents..
Post by: J6U on March 17, 2013, 06:16:16 pm
I think Phase Shield is a bit too strong.
Like, it makes almost nay deck poop on other decks without permanent control, or without spell damaging.
Post by: SL234 on April 21, 2013, 09:10:34 am
Post by: TheCursedOne on April 27, 2013, 06:14:55 pm
Post by: J6U on May 02, 2013, 05:32:52 am
Post by: letour on May 05, 2013, 02:52:16 am
I have upgraded the list in the Nerf This Card section, Dimentional Shield thread:Ok you list all quanta denial ability, this does not really counter them as they are countering every that more than 5 quanta to play. Momentum effect are counter to every shield and think that destroy permanent. Let's give give a permanent that 15 quanta to play that the beginning of your next turn you win the game. Almost all counter will work for it, so it is not OP.
17+ Ways to beat Dim shield spamming decks: Your argument is invalid.
- Explotion.
- Steal.
- Momentum.
- Chimera.
- Butterfly Effect.
- Pulvy.
- Charger.
- Poison.
- Voodoo Doll damage.
- Unstable Gas.
- Catapult.
- Decking out with stall/ragequit decks.
- Devourier spammers.
- Discord even without Black Hole.
- Black Hole spam.
- Ghostmares.
- Earquakes
- Extra: Mutant with Steal and Destroy ability.
It kill a lot of mono-deck that cannot be play, because they can't counter that card. Mono-life, mono-time, mono-water, mono-light, mono-air do not any tool. This one card force to not play almost any mono-deck. One card diminish all those to not being to survive so not play outside being AI 3 grinder. It give a lot of power for one card. Healing is not option for life and light, because you can't heal enought for 20 turns. Poison are not good counter because with the 180 hp arena deck your opponent will have time kill you 3 time before you can beat him by posonning.
Momentum can only give 1 turn hit, lobo or the mindflayer will care about you next turn. Phase savalger can get you another copy if your opponent destroy it. The opponent can't kill your creature beaause they are immortal.
You can also put a counter in your deck and not been to counter it because you do not draw it in time.
Why is there more than 60% of the bronze league having that card in there deck, because the metagame is play dim. shield or counter it. If you do not any of those way to counter it, you're death.
I'm saying that a card you need a way to counter it any deck (if not you lready lose)you made is really to powerfull. It gie a lot of mono-deck (like life) not able to be arena, because they can't counter one card really. It is way to powerfull than any card in this game. This why it need a nerf.
Post by: xsindomanx on May 07, 2013, 01:36:25 am
I have upgraded the list in the Nerf This Card section, Dimentional Shield thread:Ok you list all quanta denial ability, this does not really counter them as they are countering every that more than 5 quanta to play. Momentum effect are counter to every shield and think that destroy permanent. Let's give give a permanent that 15 quanta to play that the beginning of your next turn you win the game. Almost all counter will work for it, so it is not OP.
17+ Ways to beat Dim shield spamming decks: Your argument is invalid.
- Explotion.
- Steal.
- Momentum.
- Chimera.
- Butterfly Effect.
- Pulvy.
- Charger.
- Poison.
- Voodoo Doll damage.
- Unstable Gas.
- Catapult.
- Decking out with stall/ragequit decks.
- Devourier spammers.
- Discord even without Black Hole.
- Black Hole spam.
- Ghostmares.
- Earquakes
- Extra: Mutant with Steal and Destroy ability.
It kill a lot of mono-deck that cannot be play, because they can't counter that card. Mono-life, mono-time, mono-water, mono-light, mono-air do not any tool. This one card force to not play almost any mono-deck. One card diminish all those to not being to survive so not play outside being AI 3 grinder. It give a lot of power for one card. Healing is not option for life and light, because you can't heal enought for 20 turns. Poison are not good counter because with the 180 hp arena deck your opponent will have time kill you 3 time before you can beat him by posonning.
Momentum can only give 1 turn hit, lobo or the mindflayer will care about you next turn. Phase savalger can get you another copy if your opponent destroy it. The opponent can't kill your creature beaause they are immortal.
You can also put a counter in your deck and not been to counter it because you do not draw it in time.
Why is there more than 60% of the bronze league having that card in there deck, because the metagame is play dim. shield or counter it. If you do not any of those way to counter it, you're death.
I'm saying that a card you need a way to counter it any deck (if not you lready lose)you made is really to powerfull. It gie a lot of mono-deck (like life) not able to be arena, because they can't counter one card really. It is way to powerfull than any card in this game. This why it need a nerf.
Honestly? You are assuming the worst case where a deck can chain 6 dim shields, has phase salvagers (which only last one turn anyways), spiders, lobo + cost of ability AND can deal crazy damage? I've been grinding all arena levels for weeks now, and haven't seen a deck that can do all that.
If you are mostly using rush decks, here is a post by kev that explains the cycle: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48624.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,48624.0.html)
Now, The additional options of playing against dim shield:
Life: Life has four cards that can heal: heal, bond, staff, and SoG. Dim shield costs 5 quarta, and for that cost, you can play 2 SoG or heal with 1 quarta leftover, not to mention aether has no permanent control and life creatures are much cheaper than aether creatures. If you only play a life rush with frogs, dragons, and mitosis, of course you have no chance to win.
Air: SoF
Light: Also has 4 cards that can heal: miracle, sanctuary, SoD, and Luciferin, which are all cheaper than dim shield, with the exception of miracle. Light also has mirror shield to block SoW attacks and hope shield to get fast quarta. Again, if you play a rush with only the core creature cards, of course you can't win.
Water: Flooding (and dry spell for spiders) to kill creatures, ice shield to block, and physalia and pufferfish for poison damage. Regarding your 'poison is not effective' argument, currently "Poison Dials" deck are one of the best grinder for everything.
Also, please don't exaggerate the number of mono aether decks in bronze. I was just there <3 And mind flayer is a water card.
Post by: letour on May 07, 2013, 03:22:29 pm
Shards are not count in there because you have to win bronze (which are full of dim. shield)first to have acess to that shards. You have no other than to face TONS dim. shield to get shard to beat those shields, so you are stuck. Shard are not counter because they are not accessible to everyone. Rare cards that are not even acessible by the oracle, should never be the only way on certain element to beat your way to have those.
You can spam heal for 20 turns really while they are building they're building an immortal army that only the torn carapace could hurt. They can also kill your creature with lighning
Edit : you can't rush a arena deck. If they can play a dim. shield you are death on mono-life.
I was trying to build a deck a mono-life and ask for advice in chat. They say that you can only rush (wich is not gret in the arena). I ask them how to beat Dim. shield spamming with it, they say, I can't. So mono-life is only good for farming AI3, because you are automaly lose at the first dim. shield you encounter.
For water, how do you get your air and death quanta on mono-water (wich should only contain water pillars in my opinion, because if not they are not mono).
The card is also really OP, because if you do not have any counter (again only one card). You cannot expect to win you're way to any highter tier of competition. Try beating 6 decks in the bronze league without having a counter of this card, you have almost no chance. No other cards in the bronze have to get a specific counter in the deck so you are not stuck.
Post by: xsindomanx on May 07, 2013, 04:21:10 pm
On your argument on mono life, it's true that mono life has no direct counters against dim shield, and therefore is weak against mono aether. However, such is the case against a lot of other cards and elements. IMO, it makes more sense to say that 'life' as an element is a 'support element' or 'underpowered as an element', rather than saying that all those cards that can't be countered by / can do things that life cards can't do, are overpowered.
On a final note, I counted up the number of aether marks in top 250 decks bronze, and only counted less than 50.
EDIT:
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Edit : you can't rush a arena deck. If they can play a dim. shield you are death on mono-life.What do you mean by this? Bronze decks generally can't afford double draw, so they're limited to 6 shields = 12 turns. Yes a very significant amount, but if you insist on using mono life, it's not impossible.
Quote
For water, how do you get your air and death quanta on mono-water (wich should only contain water pillars in my opinion, because if not they are not mono).Please refer to this page, which has a mono deck definition: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38685.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38685.0.html)
Post by: letour on May 11, 2013, 03:34:25 pm
50/250 who have aether mark still is really lot comparing to any other. The normal if all alements were balance will have 20 which prove that aether is reallly powerfull element for beginner because of that card.
Post by: xsindomanx on May 11, 2013, 04:51:11 pm
A :life deck can just as easily have a fire mark and explosions or a d :lifeeath mark and steal to get PC.
Post by: 3DSRed on May 13, 2013, 05:55:03 pm
i had to change my deck from a mono-light to a duo dark-light JUST so I could have steal to get rid of it b/c so many ppl use the strategy where you play another one right before the first one goes away. >:(
Post by: letour on May 15, 2013, 12:27:12 pm
Not trying to push the point, but 60% mono aether with ~20% mono aether with aether mark makes 40% with mono aether without an aether mark (which makes it a duo or trio in most cases, not a mono - see linked definition of mono above).No not acoording to your definition of mono deck. Mono deck can have different mark but no different cards than your elements (steal and explosion are not life cards).
A :life deck can just as easily have a fire mark and explosions or a d :lifeeath mark and steal to get PC.
Post by: xsindomanx on May 15, 2013, 05:47:05 pm
Not trying to push the point, but 60% mono aether with ~20% mono aether with aether mark makes 40% with mono aether without an aether mark (which makes it a duo or trio in most cases, not a mono - see linked definition of mono above).No not acoording to your definition of mono deck. Mono deck can have different mark but no different cards than your elements (steal and explosion are not life cards).
A :life deck can just as easily have a fire mark and explosions or a d :lifeeath mark and steal to get PC.
Exactly. A mono aether deck has no reason to have a non-aether mark, meaning those decks that you mentioned with non-aether marks are not mono aether.
Post by: letour on May 15, 2013, 10:11:54 pm
You can put dim. shield in other deck than mono-aether too.
Post by: squelchy911 on May 31, 2013, 10:07:41 am
Post by: dawn to dusk on May 31, 2013, 10:12:12 am
Post by: 3DSRed on May 31, 2013, 02:47:32 pm
Post by: ColorlessGreen on May 31, 2013, 08:24:58 pm
I find it quite sad due to the fact that mono aether decks are nothing without this card. It just doesnt have the speed for anything else
Exhibit A (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45665.0.html)
Exhibit B (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45818.0.html)
Exhibit C (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,41818.0.html)
You are basically correct with regards to unupped decks, though. However, I don't really consider that a problem. Many elements only have effectively a single viable strategy as an unupped mono, and there are many ways to make aether duos/trios (even with just splashed non-aether cards) which do not use dim shield.
Disclaimer:
None of this should be taken to mean I think dim shield is not OP. None of this should be taken to mean I think dim shield is OP. This should merely be taken to mean "there are definitely some good mono aethers that do not use dim shield" and "it is not a problem (or at least not a problem exclusive to aether) for there to only be only one viable strategy for an unupped mono deck of a given element"
Post by: EMZheath on June 06, 2013, 03:18:39 am
Post by: Theboss1248 on June 18, 2013, 05:02:19 am
Post by: Meruan4Nemesis on June 29, 2013, 08:21:01 am
Post by: EMZheath on June 30, 2013, 11:06:07 pm
Not sure which is better, this or the entropy shield. If you can keep it going, I think the entropy tops this.It depend if you want 3 turns or n/a turn.
Post by: Chuck__Boris on September 29, 2013, 05:59:43 pm
Post by: Zawadx on January 04, 2014, 10:19:09 am
What is the probability that you will be able to chain Dimensional Shields (i.e. play one every 3 turns so that the opponent can't manage to put in any attack) if you play your first on the 4th turn where you draw a card at the beginning of your turn. This assumes that your deck has the maximum probability to chain them i.e. you have a 30 card deck with 6 Dimensional shields. This also assumes that you always have the quanta to play one.
* There might be an argument about the turn where you should start the chain, but I concluded that it should be the 4th, excluding the extra turn you get if you win the pre-game toss (the one where you don't draw at the beginning, I shall refer to this henceforth as the 'Play' turn). This is because, if we follow my system, the opponent will always get 4 turns in the beginning without a Dimensional Shield in my slot. In my experience (I may be wrong) no deck can kill you in 4 turns.
Now, the above problem means that we'll play our first shield on our 4th turn (excluding the play turn), and subsequent shields on the 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th and 19th turns. Now this will provide you with protection until you finish your 22nd turn. As you'll deck out anyways on the 23rd turn, dying on your opponent's turn before that is no problem. Results:
THESE RESULTS ARE INCORRECT, PLEASE REFER TO THE POST BELOW
Therefore, the chances that you'll be able to chain dimshields for the full 18 turns is a low 30.34%. And that's considering your opponent has no PC or shield-ignoring cards. Just saying, There's an about 70% chance for that shield chain to fail. :o
And even if you run the basic Mono Aether (Phase Dragons, Immortals, Dimshields), which in my experience has a TTW of about 12, you need to chain 3 shields. Which has a 76.74% chance of success. And over 30% chance of failure. 8) And so I think that this card doesn't need a nerf.
Post by: CuCN on January 05, 2014, 01:32:10 am
There are 30 choose 6=593775 equally likely ways that 6 dim shields can be distributed into a 30 card deck.
Out of these 593775 ways, 566643 (95.43%) have at least one dim shield in the top 11 cards.
Out of these 566643, 518595 (87.34% of 593775) have at least two dim shields in the top 14 cards.
Out of these 518595, 455675 (76.74% of 593775) have at least three dim shields in the top 17 cards.
Out of these 455675, 380435 (64.07% of 593775) have at least four dim shields in the top 20 cards.
Out of these 380435, 291500 (49.09% of 593775) have at least five dim shields in the top 23 cards.
And out of these 291500, 180180 (30.34% of 593775) have all six dim shields in the top 26 cards.
However, especially in unupped play, you don't have to start chaining on the 4th turn. Yes, extra protection after the 22nd turn is useless, but the later you start a shield chain, the less likely it is that that chain will be broken by lack of shields. If you start chaining on the 7th turn (which is still before most unupped decks do 100 damage), the chance of having enough shields to reach turn 12 is 95.62% (567749/593775), and the chance of having enough shields to reach deckout is 80.49% (477939/593775).
Post by: jawdirk on January 05, 2014, 02:53:05 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 05, 2014, 04:35:52 am
Decks with 6 dim shields as their defense don't need anywhere near 22 turns to kill (unless they are facing stall of course). The reason dim shield needs a nerf is because it is too efficient compared to other shields, not because it can chain for most of the game reliably (which it can).It takes 36 aether quanta to keep it going for all 18 turns. What else can you do with 36 quanta? Play 3 crimson dragons and a handful of deflags and win in just 3 turns. That is, if you aren't countered.
Post by: Naesala on January 05, 2014, 10:25:33 am
It should be noted that we're not looking at two lump somes and throwing it all down at once. Dim shield is 6 every 3 turns, where as crimson dragons are 10 at once. Because of this lower cost needed less frequently, shields are easier to play, unless you can point me to this 3 dragon deck thats so much more popular than monoaether? I think your example just isn't very goodDecks with 6 dim shields as their defense don't need anywhere near 22 turns to kill (unless they are facing stall of course). The reason dim shield needs a nerf is because it is too efficient compared to other shields, not because it can chain for most of the game reliably (which it can).It takes 36 aether quanta to keep it going for all 18 turns. What else can you do with 36 quanta? Play 3 crimson dragons and a handful of deflags and win in just 3 turns. That is, if you aren't countered.
Post by: Zawadx on January 06, 2014, 08:30:03 am
Your first probability is correct, but the ones after that are wrong because the probabilities are not independent and cannot be simply multiplied together.
There are 30 choose 6=593775 equally likely ways that 6 dim shields can be distributed into a 30 card deck.
Out of these 593775 ways, 566643 (95.43%) have at least one dim shield in the top 11 cards.
Out of these 566643, 518595 (87.34% of 593775) have at least two dim shields in the top 14 cards.
Out of these 518595, 455675 (76.74% of 593775) have at least three dim shields in the top 17 cards.
Out of these 455675, 380435 (64.07% of 593775) have at least four dim shields in the top 20 cards.
Out of these 380435, 291500 (49.09% of 593775) have at least five dim shields in the top 23 cards.
And out of these 291500, 180180 (30.34% of 593775) have all six dim shields in the top 26 cards.
However, especially in unupped play, you don't have to start chaining on the 4th turn. Yes, extra protection after the 22nd turn is useless, but the later you start a shield chain, the less likely it is that that chain will be broken by lack of shields. If you start chaining on the 7th turn (which is still before most unupped decks do 100 damage), the chance of having enough shields to reach turn 12 is 95.62% (567749/593775), and the chance of having enough shields to reach deckout is 80.49% (477939/593775).
Thanks for posting the correct probabilities, I wasn't sure that I was right. And we could start at the 7th turn, but a good rush usually has a TTW of less than 7. Of course one could easily start early if they know they're up against a good rush.
Decks with 6 dim shields as their defense don't need anywhere near 22 turns to kill (unless they are facing stall of course). The reason dim shield needs a nerf is because it is too efficient compared to other shields, not because it can chain for most of the game reliably (which it can).
Dissipation shield and Bonewall can also compete with Dimensional shields in my opinion. If you have enough quanta, Dissipation shield can easily block all damage, providing enough turns to finish the opponent off (especially when facing a rush). Bonewall, if combined with a way to regularly simulate deaths (Shrodinger's Cat, Sparktal to start), can actually be better than Dimshield. Bonewall might fail against a scarab/firefly spam, but then a Dimshield deck can also be beaten by spams.
Decks with 6 dim shields as their defense don't need anywhere near 22 turns to kill (unless they are facing stall of course). The reason dim shield needs a nerf is because it is too efficient compared to other shields, not because it can chain for most of the game reliably (which it can).It takes 36 aether quanta to keep it going for all 18 turns. What else can you do with 36 quanta? Play 3 crimson dragons and a handful of deflags and win in just 3 turns. That is, if you aren't countered.
Actually, even with a bad draw of 2 aether pillars in your first few turns (assuming you don't have a :aether mark) you can keep the chain going (by not playing any other aether cards). Which is why I didn't consider quanta a problem when calculating the probability of chaining.
Post by: jawdirk on January 07, 2014, 02:30:54 am
Dissipation shield and Bonewall can also compete with Dimensional shields in my opinion. If you have enough quanta, Dissipation shield can easily block all damage, providing enough turns to finish the opponent off (especially when facing a rush). Bonewall, if combined with a way to regularly simulate deaths (Shrodinger's Cat, Sparktal to start), can actually be better than Dimshield. Bonewall might fail against a scarab/firefly spam, but then a Dimshield deck can also be beaten by spams.
I agree that Bonewall is a nice useful card. Dissipation shield I think is merely average. However, the thing I find most troubling about dim shield is that it completely ignores the composition of the attacking forces (except momentum of course). With bonewall, dissipation shield, and really all other shields (maybe permafrost shield is an exception), you can win with overwhelming quantities and/or power of creatures. Merely having a balanced, large attacking force might allow you to win. Dim shield is effective against everything not specifically picked to circumvent shields/permanents in general, where as other shields have weaknesses. Dim shield should have a weakness; in fact, it looks like it was designed to have a weakness which is that its protection is only temporary. But since a high percentage of the time you can chain it to the end of the game, that weakness was not accurately coded into the rules of the card. It just lasts too long to behave the way it was intended to behave.
Post by: Higurashi on January 07, 2014, 02:43:11 am
This is an amazing card, and probably the best shield in the game. But it doesn't need any nerfing!Nerf discussion is here, for future reference: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/nerf-this-card!/dimensional-shield/msg1119558/#new
Post by: Kowlickkid on January 09, 2014, 08:59:08 pm
Post by: CuCN on January 09, 2014, 10:16:26 pm
Also vulnerable to magic damage, but really, what shield isn't?
Post by: laelin on May 14, 2014, 09:06:20 pm
1. having a potential of 18 turns of immunity to physical damage is a lot. It's so much that if I didn't just read the forum rules I might describe it using much more colorful language.
2. 6/5 quanta cost for a shield that only last three turns is a lot as well.
These are two user friendly problems and opponent friendly problems that I think I have an idea for. Instead of 3 turns per shield, make it 2. Instead of 6/5 quanta, make it 4/3. And lastly to buff the shield up so that users of the shield don't feel too cheated, make the shield immortal that way it feels right at home with the rest of the Aether element.
P.S. Here's a fun little idea to try. Take a graviton salvager and immortalize. Take a Pulverizer and immortalize it. play a dimensional shield and on the last turn destroy the shield with your pulvy and then realize what I just realized by reading the description on the salvager that this strategy doesn't work and you just wasted a lot of time making a deck centered around this idea. Come on "Elements," this should totally be allowed, I don't actually think its overpowered at all.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 14, 2014, 11:37:45 pm
The overpoweredness
I can't even
Post by: laelin on May 15, 2014, 02:11:00 am
Post by: MasN on May 16, 2014, 10:08:04 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on May 18, 2014, 07:06:57 pm
Post by: haidao0923 on July 13, 2014, 09:58:20 pm
Post by: Chapuz on July 14, 2014, 02:51:55 am
Fighting Level 3 the NPC keep using this shield while dealing heavy damage with dragons it totally amazing and can shield up to 18 turns!!!Yes, but be careful! In PvP and Arena you will face a lot of decks that counter a simple monoaether with 6 shields in 30 cards, and only a few false gods can lose against it.
Post by: MasterofPun on February 25, 2016, 10:02:30 pm
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on May 06, 2016, 12:30:04 pm
All I can say is I LOVE stealing these with my :darkness deck. Invincibility for 3 turns while I steal your mana and regen my health? YES PLEASE!!
And I LOVE utilizing the 3 turns of not being able to attack to use my Shard of Patience since I can't attack anyway.
(Unless my opponent uses Parallel Universe on my buffed Arctic Dragon)