Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Other Topics => Forum Archive => World of Elements => Topic started by: Scaredgirl on October 30, 2011, 09:34:38 pm
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In my never-ending effort to steal ideas from Civilization (one of my all time favorite offline games), I decided to implement Technology Trees to WoE.
The way it works is that WoE will be basically divided into two parts:
A) Individual progress
B) Team progress
PArt A is about you running around the map and leveling up your character.
Part B consists of building cities and advancing your element by researching new technologies. This will be done by the whole element, led by the King of that element. We will use a special form which the King can use to submit team actions.
Big part of team progress will be Technology trees. Here is a link to what I currently have.
>> CLICK ME << (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydHBtU0RNOC1yeFk2cTRIRzhCaDFyekE&single=true&gid=59&output=html)
It's just brainstorming at this point, but the final version could look something like that.
I divided techs in 3 different trees, each with 2 branches.
ECONOMY
This is about new buildings, improvements and cash.
SCIENCE
This is about speeding up your research and getting some random things that will help you.
MILITARY
This is about getting buffs that help your team in battle.
The number in the top-left corner is now many rounds it takes to research that particular technology. Some quests will give you research points that speed up the process.
This technology thing goes hand-in-hand with the new city building system (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AgB8fZX7y8kydE52X2piTmVLcDQ4RGstT3Q3VjBiZVE&single=true&gid=0&output=html) where teams can customize their cities with different buildings. Some buildings require a certain tech before you can build them.
I'll post more details later. If you are not totally confused, feel free to post ideas. :)
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:o You seem to work VERY hard. Emphasis on very.
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Nice, SG. WoE seems to be a great fit for a lot of ideas.
Though, with the combination of an MMO layout and the 4X Civ-style concepts, I can't help but wonder - how much effort does this take the WoE staff to manage?
As for the tech tree itself:
It's rather simple compared a Civ-style tree, which I like based on how this game works. Since we already have diverse skills trees, the simplicity of the tech trees looks like a nice "balance".
Would "Diplomacy", "Government" or "Communications" make another possible tech tree? Not all negotiations with other nations fall under military or economic purposes, so I think this tree could focus on gaining benefits basd on adjacent element nations, bonuses regarding different elements, or something similar. (Communications/Government-wise, one half of the tree could involve another way to improve the elemental nation)
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I look in the military tree. I see offensive and Defensive skills built into two seperate paths. I think to myself 'There's going to be a choice that needs to be made right?'
And as I type this post, I think of the Dukes from Kingdom War event?(I may have the name wrong), where you could ask questions about their deck. Perhaps some sort of scouting system that allows you to ask Yes or No questions about the opponent's deck?
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Nice, SG. WoE seems to be a great fit for a lot of ideas.
Though, with the combination of an MMO layout and the 4X Civ-style concepts, I can't help but wonder - how much effort does this take the WoE staff to manage?
As for the tech tree itself:
It's rather simple compared a Civ-style tree, which I like based on how this game works. Since we already have diverse skills trees, the simplicity of the tech trees looks like a nice "balance".
Would "Diplomacy", "Government" or "Communications" make another possible tech tree? Not all negotiations with other nations fall under military or economic purposes, so I think this tree could focus on gaining benefits basd on adjacent element nations, bonuses regarding different elements, or something similar. (Communications/Government-wise, one half of the tree could involve another way to improve the elemental nation)
Organizing this technology tree thing couldn't be easier. I built a cool system where all the organizer has to do is add the technology and the Day when research starts, and everything else is automatic. Using total research time, Day when it started and current Day, we can have nice little progress bars that get updated when Main Organizer updates the Day number. And when a technology is complete, it gets added to the pile of completed techs, and the teams can start researching the next one.
I originally wanted to have 3 trees for simplicity, but I guess we could have more if we have enough ideas for what they techs actually do. We could go with something like:
Economy
Science
Military
Culture
Diplomatics
Or something like that.
I look in the military tree. I see offensive and Defensive skills built into two seperate paths. I think to myself 'There's going to be a choice that needs to be made right?'
And as I type this post, I think of the Dukes from Kingdom War event?(I may have the name wrong), where you could ask questions about their deck. Perhaps some sort of scouting system that allows you to ask Yes or No questions about the opponent's deck?
That same exact question skill was actually part of the original :entropy skill tree (before it was used in Falling Empire), but seems like it was removed at some point, which is weird because I don't remember removing it. Either it had some kind of issue why we removed it, or it has simply been a victim of a copy-paste error or something.
But a mechanic like that fits much better as a skill than as a technology. Techs should be something that give a more general buff and not a specific PvP mechanic buff like that.
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I look in the military tree. I see offensive and Defensive skills built into two seperate paths. I think to myself 'There's going to be a choice that needs to be made right?'
And as I type this post, I think of the Dukes from Kingdom War event?(I may have the name wrong), where you could ask questions about their deck. Perhaps some sort of scouting system that allows you to ask Yes or No questions about the opponent's deck?
That same exact question skill was actually part of the original :entropy skill tree (before it was used in Falling Empire), but seems like it was removed at some point, which is weird because I don't remember removing it. Either it had some kind of issue why we removed it, or it has simply been a victim of a copy-paste error or something.
But a mechanic like that fits much better as a skill than as a technology. Techs should be something that give a more general buff and not a specific PvP mechanic buff like that.
You're probably thinking of the Tier 2 Time skill "Foresight".
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I look in the military tree. I see offensive and Defensive skills built into two seperate paths. I think to myself 'There's going to be a choice that needs to be made right?'
And as I type this post, I think of the Dukes from Kingdom War event?(I may have the name wrong), where you could ask questions about their deck. Perhaps some sort of scouting system that allows you to ask Yes or No questions about the opponent's deck?
That same exact question skill was actually part of the original :entropy skill tree (before it was used in Falling Empire), but seems like it was removed at some point, which is weird because I don't remember removing it. Either it had some kind of issue why we removed it, or it has simply been a victim of a copy-paste error or something.
But a mechanic like that fits much better as a skill than as a technology. Techs should be something that give a more general buff and not a specific PvP mechanic buff like that.
You're probably thinking of the Tier 2 Time skill "Foresight".
Ah yes.. well, that explains the mystery then. :) Thanks.
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I really like this. Great idea!
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Things go out of hand so now there are 6 different trees. :) I am also considering adding one final tech to all trees, a one that can only be obtained if you have all the previous techs in that tree, kind of like champ skill.
I think that with this kind of system, teams have tons of different options on how to customize their element, so it should be fun.
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This looks fun. Before brainstorming specific techs though, I think we should clarify how the Individual and Team parts of the game interact. For example how much of an advantage to your character progress is gained by belonging to a highly progressed nation? I think it might work best if characters of different nations remained on fairly equal footing, so that if a new player joins a weaker nation, that won't inhibit their ability to create a strong character.
In order to keep the two parts of the game somewhat independent of each other, we will need goals for nations beyond "if my nation is strong that makes me strong". If we give some stated goals for nations, saying "the first nation(s) to meet XYZ criteria are the winners", then we could create tech trees that further progress toward those goals without necessarily buffing the characters in that nation.
Is this close to what you were thinking SG? If so, I think we should figure out the Nation/Team Goals first, so that we can build the techs off of that.
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This looks fun. Before brainstorming specific techs though, I think we should clarify how the Individual and Team parts of the game interact. For example how much of an advantage to your character progress is gained by belonging to a highly progressed nation? I think it might work best if characters of different nations remained on fairly equal footing, so that if a new player joins a weaker nation, that won't inhibit their ability to create a strong character.
In order to keep the two parts of the game somewhat independent of each other, we will need goals for nations beyond "if my nation is strong that makes me strong". If we give some stated goals for nations, saying "the first nation(s) to meet XYZ criteria are the winners", then we could create tech trees that further progress toward those goals without necessarily buffing the characters in that nation.
Is this close to what you were thinking SG? If so, I think we should figure out the Nation/Team Goals first, so that we can build the techs off of that.
Goals will be part of the main storyline and will not be revealed at this point.
Most techs should mostly benefit the element, and not that much individual players. Some nations being weaker is not a big deal because when we reset the players, we reset the nations as well.
Yes, I have decided that we need to reset the players after each WoE. It has many advantages over the continuous system, and it's also what the majority wanted in the poll. I'm glad I realized the problem before we started because it would have killed WoE in the long run.
Here is the general idea of what the trees should do:
CULTURE
Enables mostly buildings that have various mechanics, plus increase the influence of the element. Influence is like the non-violet power of the element.
ECONOMY
Things that improve trading and generate revenue.
PRODUCTION
Either speed up city production or give the ability to build improvements on hexes (mines, roads, etc.)
SCIENCE
Speed up research and gain access to various unique buildings.
MILITARY
Buffs PvP stuff.
DIPLOMATICS
Peace, Alliances, spying, etc.
Some techs might instantly give some buffs or abilities, but most of them follow this pattern:
1. Research a new tech and gain access to a new building. (research)
2. Build that building and gain a bonus etc. (production)
Cities have limited number of slots where you can build. The number of slots depends on the population of the City. Population increases automatically each Day, and new slots open when requirements are met.
After techs are ready, we need to revisit all the skill trees and make some changes so that skills match the new techs.
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I noted that one of the things you mentioned was population. In which case, shouldn't attacking naturally decrease/possibly destroy buildings? How's that all work?
ALso, possble :death Skills here: Cites gain population when attacked/ when :death elements start fighting.
:light could get population bonuses for settling differences/creating peace.
:fire of course gets a bonus for picking a fight/incenting a fight to start...
Maybe these should all just be :underworld skills?
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I noted that one of the things you mentioned was population. In which case, shouldn't attacking naturally decrease/possibly destroy buildings? How's that all work?
ALso, possble :death Skills here: Cites gain population when attacked/ when :death elements start fighting.
:light could get population bonuses for settling differences/creating peace.
:fire of course gets a bonus for picking a fight/incenting a fight to start...
Maybe these should all just be :underworld skills?
Well, one could assume that the general public does not participate in the battle, therefore there wouldn't be many casualties. On the other hand, there should probably be some collateral damage, especially when using siege weapons. Also, when you conquer a City/Town, that should definitely destroy some of the buildings and population. So maybe attacking by itself does not do anything, but when you capture the City, damage will be done.
Enemy buildings can also be destroyed using saboteurs, but maybe we'll get some other options, like skills, as well. It will all be more clear closer to launch. Thanks for those skill suggestions.
I added some new stuff to the tech page. It now shows all 12 elements, what they are currently researching, and what techs they have completed.
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This is beginning to feel more like civilization 5 rofl
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SG did say she wanted to emulate MMOs like Civilisation right? There ya go.
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This is beginning to feel more like civilization 5 rofl
All Civilizations from 1 to 5 actually.
There are no more original ideas in the world of gaming. No matter what mechanics we use, someone has done it before. Civilization has two decades of polishing on it, and it works perfectly with what we are trying to do with WoE, so it would be nuts not to use ideas from it.
As for idea originality.. Civilization developer himself said:
Meier admits to "borrowing" many of the technology tree ideas from a board game also called Civilization, published in the United Kingdom in 1980 by Hartland Trefoil (later by Gibson Games), and in the United States in 1981 by Avalon Hill
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ec/Civilization_box_cover.jpg/200px-Civilization_box_cover.jpg)
Civilization boardgame 1981 (US version)