Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Other Topics => Forum Archive => World of Elements => Topic started by: Scaredgirl on November 05, 2011, 01:50:21 pm
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It's time to go through all the 13 skill trees and make them "perfect". Main goals are:
1. Make all the skills fit to the theme of their path
2. Balance skills between different skill trees
3. Make big changes now that we have the technology trees and City buildings
4. Make skills cool and interesting
Others are not 100% ready yet, but we'll continue to work on them. Now lets start Darkness.
:darknessbig
I changed Prince of Darkness to Nightwalker to get rid of the gender problem. I also made some other big changes so check it out and post feedback and ideas. Thanks.
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I think Quanta Leech is definitely a skill that needs looking into. It's by far the best skill from all skills to begin with I think, since everyone relies on Pillars at the beginning you can almost double your experience per battle at the beginning. I'm not sure, but I don't think skills are entirely balanced if almost everyone chooses to start off with the same skill (though it's much less useful later on). Possibly 1 XP per 8 quanta cards? By taking quanta cards more generally it's still useful later on, and by choosing 8 it's unlikely you'd gain 2 XP or more most of the time.
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I think Quanta Leech is definitely a skill that needs looking into. It's by far the best skill from all skills to begin with I think, since everyone relies on Pillars at the beginning you can almost double your experience per battle at the beginning. I'm not sure, but I don't think skills are entirely balanced if almost everyone chooses to start off with the same skill (though it's much less useful later on). Possibly 1 XP per 8 quanta cards? By taking quanta cards more generally it's still useful later on, and by choosing 8 it's unlikely you'd gain 2 XP or more most of the time.
Yea, I agree. I've never liked that skill that much. I like the concept, but in order for it to work, we would have to increase the XP requirements (and XP gained) a lot, maybe to tenfold or something. This way we could use something like "+1XP for each 3 Pillars", and it still wouldn't be OP. The problem is that increasing XP would lead to all kinds of math fail.
It would probably be best to replace the skill with something totally different.
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Perhaps Quanta Leech would be best if it altered the salvage instead? Gain +1 card for every 5 Quanta producting permanent in the opponent's deck. That way, it covers pendulums. Does that work?
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Is it just me...or does the Nightwalker side seem highly situational/weak?
I've never gotten the usefulness of disguise...why go into a hostile city if you're not attacking it?
Does Bloodthirsty stack? Can I take out 10 people in a row and my next battle use 20+Base ups?
Lunar cycle seems UP and super situational at best. Maybe with stealth, but I dunno.
Sacrifice is fine.
Dark feast...well, I haven't ever gotten that far in WoE so I don't know how vital exp is but it seems lacking for a tier 3 skill.
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The Disguise could be useful for abusing the mechant pricing. Disguise yourself as a friendly element, and then buy at discount prices!
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Although I'm sad that the Darkness tree no longer contains 'Pickpocket' as a skill, I realized that it would be better placed else. ;) (*coughUWcough*)
Most of Darkness' abilities seem solid as they are (Corrupt Mind/the champion skill being one of THE BEST changes if done properly :) ), but there a few changes that could be added just in case:
Stealth - perhaps allow this ability to still remain whenever ANY type of movement is done (i.e. - Shadow Leap, Use/Bind Stone of Return, etc.), so that it has more synergy with the tree in their ability for shadows to come up anywhere and everywhere...
Disrupt Magic - perhaps there should be an 'active' aspect to this? Like disrupting the Tower of Magic building, but not really necessary. Perhaps generating a Relic for every spell they use against you or something. (Not really)
Dark Feast - XP drain should be doubled if you win 2-0, or even tripled to make it more powerful if you dominate another player; at the same time, this might have to be looked into when it comes down to how this works against lower level players (can it DE-level someone?).
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Correct me if I'm wrong.
With the Corrupt Mind skill, Trade is a Basic Action, yes? So what's to stop the Darkness player from simply selling all their victim's equipment?
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Correct me if I'm wrong.
With the Corrupt Mind skill, Trade is a Basic Action, yes? So what's to stop the Darkness player from simply selling all their victim's equipment?
Two major things actually. ^^;
1) Players DON'T have access to enemy player character sheets, so they don't know what they would be 'selling' to begin with, even if they saw part of their deck in the previous battle; they can't physically change that character sheet either, so it won't work.
2) They'd have to be near a city to do this. (Lesser reason)
Personally, the real damage you can do with a controlled player are:
-Using the person to attack members of their own faction
-Using the person to protect you from oncoming attackers
-Using the player to SEIGE THEIR OWN TOWN (:o)
-Moving them into random territory and neutralizing hexes to other enemy elements
You can't sell off their entire army obviously, but forcing them to damage their own settlements or ruin their reputation with their own faction is quite fun in my opinion. ^_^
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So when you force them to attack members of their own faction do they personally carry out the battles? So they could choose to lose if they wanted to, or try to win (which would annoy their team member opponent).
That actually does sound fun.
And I assume you can still perform your own actions while controlling another player, right?
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So when you force them to attack members of their own faction do they personally carry out the battles? So they could choose to lose if they wanted to, or try to win (which would annoy their team member opponent).
That actually does sound fun.
And I assume you can still perform your own actions while controlling another player, right?
Correct and yes. :) That's the beauty of the champion skill; you could LITERALLY ruin two or more player's days by forcing false battling (or worse; attacking the entire element by sieging cities), while still maintaining your own sinister agenda as a Darkness champion. :D
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So, if you force a player to attack someone else, does the darkness player fight the battle, or does the owner of the player do, because if the darkness player does that, I see an infinite loop where two darkness players with the champion skill take turns pounding wins out of one poor character and more then completely destroying him :D
Or, does he resurrect after two days regardless of if he gets attacked again by someone else with the champion skill?
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Lunar Cycle: Seems to situational, and the bonus (upgrades) seems quite week considering all the other upgrade bonusses in the darkness three.
Stealth: It seems highly situational, maybe allow it to remain for a bit more actions (Like trade, fast travel, train, capture?). Could be fun, watching at the map and seeing your hexes being neutralized without anyone being around ;). Also, someone popping up after shoplifting your city (needs combination with disguise) can be fun too. Combination with Shadow leap in nice too.
How about the life skill Search countering stealth?
Corrupt mind: I like it.
Disrupt Magic: It looks a overpowered to me, also, it hurt some elements a lot more then others.
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OK, so:
Lunar Cycle is lame. As in crippled, and as in America's Heavy Metal community (&feature=related) lame. This just needs to be entirely replaced. All it will do is make sure on on day 30, everyone near a Darkness player double-moves away and then double-moves back the next day.
How about replacing it with the next step up in Disguising?
Fake It Till You Make It or Deep Cover
0AP: Sacrifice a Relic to turn this skill into a Tier 1 skill of your choice from any Element that you may use the Mark of. It reverts at the end of the current Day.
Sacrifice: the cheapest cards available last game, IIRC, were Relics(?) at 5 :electrum. So basically, this card says "burn 15 electrum to upgrade 6 cards next battle." Given that that's about a day's Work assuming the system doesn't change too much...well, is that good? Sacrifice a day's activity to upgrade 6 cards for 1 battle? And it costs 2 AP to perform the sacrifice? I'm asking because i'm not honestly sure.
Other than that, this looks good.
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Now, I understand why these discussions have been stalled. I have not commented on the last two put up. Fear not! Here are my thoughts, my ideas, take them as you will. Now let our process commence!
Spell Resistance: This guy was added later in the cycle of beta (around day 4 or so) and I really like its flavor. It is not overpoweringly strong, but it makes you feel strong. Good.
Quanta Leech: Does it round? Is it absolute rounding or how? (9 goes down to +1 exp, 10 goes up to +2 exp) or (<=11 is always +1 exp) or (>7 is always +2 exp) This should be clarified. Smart opponents of darkness will build their decks properly to keep them from gaining much exp. I see this as only gaining about 1.5 exp on average. Makes the opponent think, but not unbalanced. You can tweak the numbers of course, but I like the concept. Good.
Disguise: It's an interesting ability. All hinges on how much you want to go into a hostile town. From what I understand mechanically, you cannot enter a town you are at war with, unless you have this skill. Will this also make you go invisible, like stealth? I can see it as a way to evade opponents... but what darkness player runs? Needs slight Buff.
Bloodthirsty: 2 upgrades for 2 days. The opposite of Calm Before the Storm. Here, you have to battle within those two days to make use of this skill. Changing it to a longer time might allow you to gain double (or more) buffs from it, changing it to 'until the next battle' ruins the theme. How about 3 upgrades in the next two days? You have to chain battles to make use of it, and now it is almost the same as Calm Before the Storm. A player could get both those talents and have either 3 upgrades after a win for 3 days, or 2 upgrades after that. No dead zone. Needs slight Buff.
Shadow Leap: Great skill. Don't change it. Question: movement on top of movement. If my ally moves, do I jump to where he was when the day started or where he is when the day is over? Good.
Stealth: My biggest problem with this skill is its location. It should be after disguise. I'm sure you have some awesome plan or reason for its location, but, what is that reason? Just, flip Quanta Leach with Disguise and it makes more sense to me. The skill itself to me is balanced and useful. If you make it able to use advanced movement as well, it could become more powerful. Does using Stealth cancel any aggressive action against me? Like, someone charges me, and I stealth. Do they just go to where I was and... nothing else? Coordinate with Disguise.
Lunar Cycle: Its a good plan for a skill, but as it has been stated within this thread, it will not be used and is very problematic. How about changing it to a true lunar cycle? Days 1-8 have 2 upgrades, 9-13 have 6 upgrades and 14-15 have 12 upgrades. Then you can do the backward on the down-slope. See chart!
Lunar Cycle:
| Day | 1-8 | 9-13 | 14-16 | 17-21 | 22-30 |
| Upgrades | 2 | 6 | 12 | 6 | 2 |
This will allow some benefits all game long and an average of 4 upgraded cards. Yea, it is more complicated, but I think will give the game play decisons you are going for with this skill. Buff/Change.
Sacrifice: I say should be only creatures. Since the change of the champion skill, there is not a super easy way to get creatures, but, makes more sense to me. Seems like Darkness has a good deal of ways to upgrade cards. Will be curious to see how well this balances, is used. Slight Nerf/Change.
Disrupt Magic: Good skill that caps this side of the tree well. Does not conflict with any other talents, suppresses the opponent but makes most decks still usable, but a bit less effective. Good.
Dark Feast: Nice skill, another good capstone for darkness. Question: draining exp, I assume if you drain an opponent below a level cap, if they have spent their talent points, they keep their talents, but if they have not, they cannot till they reach that level again. Correct? It basically makes them get that experience again, not really de-leveling them. Good.
Corrupt Mind: Very nice change. Much needed over the last skill in this place. Interesting combination of a 2x the length of a death and more so. Will take a good deal of honesty when controlling another player. Question: since we can see our teammates actions, we can see what happens with the one controlling them. Is that alright? Good.
I think this tree in general is solid, just some minor changes in my mind. I won't put down my list of crazy ideas here unless it is asked for. I have not really thought of any anyway, the tree is good as is, mostly.