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Scaredgirl

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Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214922#msg214922
« on: December 02, 2010, 09:03:26 am »
Here's one important topic. How to buy cards in WoE?

Related topics:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8967.0.html
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9256.0.html


Here's what I was thinking:

:light area:
- you can buy :light cards for 2 electrum, :life and :air for 3 electrum (neighbors of :light)

:earth area:
- you can buy :earth cards for 2 electrum, :darkness and :time for 3 electrum (neighbors of :earth)

Outlaw City:
- You can buy any non-rare card for 4 electrum. 'Other' cards are 2 electrum.


So basically if you want to have specific cards, you need to travel to that part of the world, or pay more money for it (supply and demand).

I also think that it would be a good idea for us to pick 1-2 powerful cards from each element that are more difficult to obtain. So basically we would decide these cards are rare and make it so. For example :aether "rare" card could be Fractal.

Post any ideas here.

Offline SnoWeb

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214941#msg214941
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 10:28:08 am »
IMO "almost rares" should only available in the specific capital cities:
- :aether Fractal
- :water Nymph tears
- :entropy antimatter
- :death aflatoxin
- :gravity black hole
- :fire RoF
- :life adrenaline
- :darkness (steal is already difficult to find)
- :light Hope
- :time Hourglass
- :earth BB
- :air UG

It could also be nice to have a price depending on your elements:
- In friendly cities it would be normal price minus 1 = NP-1
- Neutral Cities: NP
- Opposing cities: NP+1
- Cities at war against you: no way dude

It could also be indexed on the player's reputation (in the same way).

Scaredgirl

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214944#msg214944
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 10:52:50 am »
IMO "almost rares" should only available in the specific capital cities:
- :aether Fractal
- :water Nymph tears
- :entropy antimatter
- :death aflatoxin
- :gravity black hole
- :fire RoF
- :life adrenaline
- :darkness (steal is already difficult to find)
- :light Hope
- :time Hourglass
- :earth BB
- :air UG
Looks pretty good to me. I probably would make 1-2 changes but that's subjective.


It could also be nice to have a price depending on your elements:
- In friendly cities it would be normal price minus 1 = NP-1
- Neutral Cities: NP
- Opposing cities: NP+1
- Cities at war against you: no way dude

It could also be indexed on the player's reputation (in the same way).
I think it makes sense if we use simple supply and demand because most merchant don't care who you are, they only care about selling. If you buy :darkness cards when you are far from :darkness area, they cost more money as opposed to if you buy them from :darkness capital. This is how it works in real life and I think we should mimic that.

Offline SnoWeb

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214958#msg214958
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2010, 11:30:40 am »
I think it makes sense if we use simple supply and demand because most merchant don't care who you are, they only care about selling. If you buy :darkness cards when you are far from :darkness area, they cost more money as opposed to if you buy them from :darkness capital. This is how it works in real life and I think we should mimic that.
Did you ever try to buy anything on a "souk" (market) in Morocco? Your language skills and the way you look makes a huge difference on the final price.
However, I got your point: keep it simple ...

Scaredgirl

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214962#msg214962
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2010, 11:52:29 am »
I think it makes sense if we use simple supply and demand because most merchant don't care who you are, they only care about selling. If you buy :darkness cards when you are far from :darkness area, they cost more money as opposed to if you buy them from :darkness capital. This is how it works in real life and I think we should mimic that.
Did you ever try to buy anything on a "souk" (market) in Morocco? Your language skills and the way you look makes a huge difference on the final price.
However, I got your point: keep it simple ...
Yes, that is true. But it's not really about "opposite elements". Sellers don't have higher prices because they hate the tourists, they have higher prices because tourists are dumb enough to pay them.

There's a lot of haggling going on around here in China. On some markets they will ask 6-8 times more than what the product is worth, and some tourist pay for that, or pay half and go home thinking they had an awesome deal because of that 50% discount.

But if you do like me and first find out what the product is worth, and then bargain like there is no tomorrow, you will reach the bottom price at some point. This process involves things like leaving the store etc. :)

My point is that it's not my foreign status that automatically makes the prices higher, it's the fact that many foreigners pay these prices and sellers know that. Luckily with skill you will pay the same amount as locals, maybe even less.

But that doesn't have much to do with WoE so I guess we should move on. :)

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214965#msg214965
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 11:58:53 am »
Wouldn't that be what the auction house is for though? Buying 'used' cards and items and different prices? If not, and more of a "hightest bidder wins" type of deal, maybe there could be a street market, or a blackmarket where people could get cards cheap, or be able to haggle prices and what not. But maybe have the blackmarket move around and be hard to find.
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Malduk

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214980#msg214980
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2010, 01:13:09 pm »
I get the RP side of auctioning, selling, bargaining etc, but those stuff are hard to track, and require lots of additional communication between the players. IMO, this should be simple as possible as building certain decks will become a nightmare if you have to write crapload of PMs or posts to get a single card.

About making some cards more rare - again, nice idea that could turn to nightmare for some elements. Ie, death has no perma control cards. Its surrounded by darkness that has a rare steal, and fire that they may as well be in war with, and never gain access to explosions. Bam, rules just made it impossible from players of that element to deal with permanents.
Nymph tears and Aflatoxin are worthless cards for water and death, while something like Fractal is super important to aether. BB is the only CC available to earth.
In a RP sense, its cool idea to make some things hard to obtain, but if you're seriously hurting fighting abilities of element by doing that, then I'm not sure its a good move.

I'd rather make alternatives rare. For example, make Grabbies rare for earth. Its a super strong card, but earth has other creatures to deal damage until they can "unlock" grabbies. UG is a great example for a rare card. Air doesnt really need it, but opens a new strategy for them if they get it.

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214982#msg214982
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2010, 01:19:54 pm »
Perhaps we could have what snoweb suggested and parallel it with a bartering system between players. For example: Joe has a farenheit that he doesn't need, but he's been looking for an eternity, Bob is looking for. Farenheit and has an extra eternity. The two players can swap cards and set that as their action in place of buying cards.
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Daxx

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214985#msg214985
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2010, 01:27:49 pm »
We'll need to establish prices fairly solidly so that we can work out quest rewards properly.

Are the prices in the first post pretty much solid?

EDIT:
I ask this because I suspect players will be earning 2-3 electrum every turn just from their element's land. If cards cost 2 electrum each, they'll be able to buy entire new decks by doing nothing but sitting around.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg214986#msg214986
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2010, 01:31:30 pm »
Wouldn't that be what the auction house is for though? Buying 'used' cards and items and different prices? If not, and more of a "hightest bidder wins" type of deal, maybe there could be a street market, or a blackmarket where people could get cards cheap, or be able to haggle prices and what not. But maybe have the blackmarket move around and be hard to find.
That's a good point. Auction will definitely replace a lot of regular card buying.

Now that I think about the Auction some more, I really think that we need to make more cards rare and also increase their prices. I mean we cannot have them cost 1, 2 or 3 because then the auction would be lame. Probably better to start with cheapest cards costing 10 electrum, while some of the rare ones might go for 40-50 (just an estimate).


I get the RP side of auctioning, selling, bargaining etc, but those stuff are hard to track, and require lots of additional communication between the players. IMO, this should be simple as possible as building certain decks will become a nightmare if you have to write crapload of PMs or posts to get a single card.
I think that the auction would be relatively easy to do actually. I first thought to have auction houses in each city/town, but then I thought that it would probably be annoying having to go to a city/town just to bid on cards. I then decided that we need an Auction section where you can bid on any time, but you can only collect your winnings in a town.

So if I want a sell a card, I will start a new post about it, where I include both the starting price, "buy now" price, and an auction clock. You guys will then bid on that card, and when the clock goes to zero (or buy now price is paid), the auction is over and I will lock the topic.

We could have an "Auction Master" to organize the whole thing. It shouldn't be that complex if we do it correctly.


About making some cards more rare - again, nice idea that could turn to nightmare for some elements. Ie, death has no perma control cards. Its surrounded by darkness that has a rare steal, and fire that they may as well be in war with, and never gain access to explosions. Bam, rules just made it impossible from players of that element to deal with permanents.
Nymph tears and Aflatoxin are worthless cards for water and death, while something like Fractal is super important to aether. BB is the only CC available to earth.
In a RP sense, its cool idea to make some things hard to obtain, but if you're seriously hurting fighting abilities of element by doing that, then I'm not sure its a good move.

I'd rather make alternatives rare. For example, make Grabbies rare for earth. Its a super strong card, but earth has other creatures to deal damage until they can "unlock" grabbies. UG is a great example for a rare card. Air doesnt really need it, but opens a new strategy for them if they get it.
I would like the rare cards to be the most sought after cards of that element.

Again, supply and demand. If something is awesome, everyone wants it, making it more difficult or pricey to obtain. If something sucks, nobody wants it, and it's easy and cheap to obtain. That's what being rare should be about.

One option is to make it easier to get the rare card of your elements. For example, if I'm :aether , I can buy Fractal from a regular store. If I'm something else, I need to use the auction or get it as a quest reward.

This system would make alliances stronger because you can supply you allies with the rare card of your element.

Malduk

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg215007#msg215007
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2010, 01:49:40 pm »
About making some cards more rare - again, nice idea that could turn to nightmare for some elements. Ie, death has no perma control cards. Its surrounded by darkness that has a rare steal, and fire that they may as well be in war with, and never gain access to explosions. Bam, rules just made it impossible from players of that element to deal with permanents.
Nymph tears and Aflatoxin are worthless cards for water and death, while something like Fractal is super important to aether. BB is the only CC available to earth.
In a RP sense, its cool idea to make some things hard to obtain, but if you're seriously hurting fighting abilities of element by doing that, then I'm not sure its a good move.

I'd rather make alternatives rare. For example, make Grabbies rare for earth. Its a super strong card, but earth has other creatures to deal damage until they can "unlock" grabbies. UG is a great example for a rare card. Air doesnt really need it, but opens a new strategy for them if they get it.
I would like the rare cards to be the most sought after cards of that element.

Again, supply and demand. If something is awesome, everyone wants it, making it more difficult or pricey to obtain. If something sucks, nobody wants it, and it's easy and cheap to obtain. That's what being rare should be about.

One option is to make it easier to get the rare card of your elements. For example, if I'm :aether , I can buy Fractal from a regular store. If I'm something else, I need to use the auction or get it as a quest reward.

This system would make alliances stronger because you can supply you allies with the rare card of your element.
Of course rare cards should be the powerful cards. I'd argue that Grabbies > BB anyway, but the difference is, you get to make a decent deck without grabbies too. If perma control becomes impossible to get for some elements, they are as good as dead. Who's gonna fight through diss shield stall, dim shield chain, or even permafrost? OE/Wings? Its dangerously imbalancing the elements, especially those that NEED to duo to work.
We cannot neglect game mechanic for the sake of role playing because WoE will get boring really fast with well rounded elements dominating all others with ease. This format will make things much harder for elements like life, time, aether and death, then it is in War.

Maybe all elements dont need to be on the same level in this event, but then you'll get everyone playing for fire, entropy and darkness, with couple of people in other elements being an easy farm targets.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Buying cards https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16817.msg215013#msg215013
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2010, 02:09:33 pm »
Maybe all elements dont need to be on the same level in this event, but then you'll get everyone playing for fire, entropy and darkness, with couple of people in other elements being an easy farm targets.
While on the other hand I do think that elements should be in balance, I think everyone knows that some elements like :gravity and :life will be less popular.

One system to battle this is to have revenue generated by an element divided by all the players in that team. So if you are in a smaller team, you will get more free electrum per turn.

On top of that, I'd like to give some less popular elements perks. These would include things like more efficient fast travel. For example :water has a pretty good fast travel system that enables them to travel across the map. I don't think small perks like that would generate much whining, but they might balance things a bit.

 

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