Post by: Terroking on May 29, 2010, 05:35:18 pm
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Post by: icybraker on May 29, 2010, 05:38:19 pm
I'm a little confused as to exatly how this works. Using 3 :fire you can gain +4 attack. Every turn, you lose -1 attack. Is this correct?
Does using the ability cause it to double the losing? A.K.A. using Steam the second time causes a net gain of +8 attack and a loss of -2 attack every turn?
Looks really cool, though ;)
Post by: Terroking on May 29, 2010, 05:41:09 pm
Wait...It looses 1 attack per turn passively, unless you've use Blessing/Rage on it to give it more full attack. It won't lose any attack if it's already less than or equal to 0.
I'm a little confused as to exatly how this works. Using 3 :fire you can gain +4 attack. Every turn, you lose -1 attack. Is this correct?
Does using the ability cause it to double the losing? A.K.A. using Steam the second time causes a net gain of +8 attack and a loss of -2 attack every turn?
Looks really cool, though ;)
Post by: Wardead on May 29, 2010, 05:44:08 pm
Post by: Zeru on May 29, 2010, 05:44:54 pm
Post by: Azumi on May 29, 2010, 05:46:13 pm
Post by: Dragoon on May 29, 2010, 05:48:08 pm
Post by: Terroking on May 29, 2010, 06:08:16 pm
Post by: killfer8 on May 29, 2010, 06:19:52 pm
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on May 29, 2010, 06:36:11 pm
Post by: coinich on May 29, 2010, 06:39:26 pm
Post by: teffy on May 29, 2010, 06:43:57 pm
Will one point/turn be removed per use of the skill or in general -1/turn regardless of the number of times you used the skill?
And what will adrenaline do?
Post by: Essence on May 29, 2010, 06:44:54 pm
Actually, I'm all for this card. Like Uncle Jellyfish, I've longed for a good reason to play :water / :fire for a while, and this is a good one. :) It's ability is kind of like uber-Ablaze with a drawback, I can dig that.
I just hope that the ability affects "current" attack, not "full" attack -- and that the passive ability does as well. It would be much better for it than if it all affected "full" attack and buffs got stripped as the passive ability ticked down.
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 29, 2010, 06:50:09 pm
this is to be available in the bazaar right?
Post by: zanzarino on May 29, 2010, 06:51:49 pm
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on May 29, 2010, 07:04:36 pm
You HAVE to tell me when this card will be out in the trainer! >.<" I'm shaking with anticipation!
Post by: killfer8 on May 29, 2010, 07:19:55 pm
I love you Zanz... :-[ Marry me? :-*Where is your Gender!!!
You HAVE to tell me when this card will be out in the trainer! >.<" I'm shaking with anticipation!
Hmm, is the extra cost of the upped version really worth it? I could see it combined with rage potion but why should I pick this one instead of a Dragon?A Dragon can be killed with Lightning. Steam machine no
Post by: jmizzle7 on May 29, 2010, 07:28:07 pm
Post by: mokasu on May 29, 2010, 07:29:46 pm
Post by: Bloodshadow on May 29, 2010, 07:55:18 pm
The skill does effect only the "current" attack power. And that is also why the description does not say "lose -1/-0 until attack power is 0". Example: blessing this results in a stable 3/11 creature.I'm not sure if I understand. So, this card only loses ATK after its ability is used once? Then does it lose 2 ATK per turn when the ability is used twice, and 3 ATK per turn when used three times, etc?
Anyways... Nice card. Uber-growth FTW! I'm making a deck with this card when it comes out.
Post by: yaladilae on May 29, 2010, 08:11:08 pm
Post by: icybraker on May 29, 2010, 08:12:52 pm
Awesome artwork and great synergy between Water and Air. Zanz made the most "creative" card until now. Seems fine and balanced to me.I don't get what :air has to do with this...
Its worth it just for the art on the upped version....I would marry it and have its kidsKays.
I guess now that it's clarified, it seems pretty neat. ;)
Post by: Xinef on May 29, 2010, 08:14:23 pm
I didn't expect water to have a robot kind of creature... now Elements are goin' steampunk! With main theme being fantasy and with futuristic looking armagio and graviton mercenaries it's a funny mix of themes.
I guess this card could be very useful thanks to water's great stalling ability (permafrost+squids+congeals) giving you ample time to grow these guys. I wouldn't expect a deck to have 6 of these because of huge cost but 3-4 and steam gets goin'!
Post by: Amilir on May 29, 2010, 08:19:43 pm
Post by: Kuroaitou on May 29, 2010, 08:20:29 pm
...maybe we'll have a false god specializing in 'mechanical' cards soon. ;)
He's probably referring to the synergy between :air and :fire, and with this card, water can be tossed into the mix of :water, :fire, and :air. If you had an additional Poseidon thrown in, you'd be Captain planet. :PAwesome artwork and great synergy between Water and Air. Zanz made the most "creative" card until now. Seems fine and balanced to me.I don't get what :air has to do with this...
(Note: Flooding + Rain of Fire = major creature control, and Nymph Queen (to an extent) + Deflagration = decent permanent control, and this just bridges the gap between two VERY distinct/different elements)
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on May 29, 2010, 08:26:55 pm
I'm kind of half against machine presence in elements, but I cant refuse that picture. I never really use water, or fire, but would be willing to spend 1500 just to have that card ;D
Edit: This will probably boost shard of readiness as well.
Post by: Dragoon1140 on May 29, 2010, 08:38:48 pm
Edit: This will probably boost shard of readiness as well.I totally forgot about the new shard!
+4 attack a turn (ignoring the -1, of course) for free. Now I am glad Zanz nerfed the shard. :o
Post by: Marvaddin on May 29, 2010, 10:16:57 pm
And, I dont think this card can create alone a good sinergy between water and fire. Trident, for example, is powerfull, and still theres no sinergy between earth and water. Fire is usually stronger than earth, but I still think thats too little to a good sinergy. Even more because its expensive, and starts at 0 attack. Look at Graviton Fire Eater...
Interesting card concept, maybe its worthy a buff.
Post by: plastiqe on May 29, 2010, 10:44:03 pm
I like the picture, I like the abilities but I don't like the pairing of water and fire. There are certian elements that are natural enemies... Life & Death, Darkness & Light etc. Also, a machine that runs on Steam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam) should belong to the realm of Air.
Post by: icybraker on May 29, 2010, 10:46:42 pm
Quote
There are certian elements that are natural enemies... Life & Death, Darkness & Light etc.Like Aether and Time, who share Anubis. ;) I think there is nothing wrong with the pairing of opposing elements; in fact, I encourage it for its synergies.
Post by: Essence on May 30, 2010, 12:23:27 am
No, the abilities are unrelated, BS.The skill does effect only the "current" attack power. And that is also why the description does not say "lose -1/-0 until attack power is 0". Example: blessing this results in a stable 3/11 creature.I'm not sure if I understand. So, this card only loses ATK after its ability is used once? Then does it lose 2 ATK per turn when the ability is used twice, and 3 ATK per turn when used three times, etc?
In strict game-mechanic-ese, this card would read:
Quote
Ability (Active): :fire :fire :fire : This creature gains +4/+0 to it's current (not full) attack.
Ability (Passive): This creature loses 1 point from the absolute value of it's current (not full) attack at the end of every turn until it reaches the absolute value of it's full attack.
Since buffs like Blessing affect Full Attack, the bonus from them wouldn't be stripped away by the passive ability. But since Antimatter does affect Current Attack (and not Full Attack), a Steam Machine that was pumped up to 14/15 with it's own ability and then given Antimatter would be -14/15, then -13/15, then -12/15.
BUT if it was then BLESSED, it would become -9/15 with a Full Attack of 3, so the passive ability would tick down until the Steam Machine reached -3/15, and it would stay there.
I think.
Zanz? :)
Post by: hello5666 on May 30, 2010, 12:24:11 am
great card. :)
this is to be available in the bazaar right?
No. Lets hope Zanz will add it. Then people would do :water , :death and :fire
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 30, 2010, 12:55:46 am
Post by: icybraker on May 30, 2010, 12:56:28 am
Post by: hello5666 on May 30, 2010, 12:57:44 am
Post by: coinich on May 30, 2010, 01:41:06 am
I know its not a rare. Its not even out in the bazzar yet.Zanz doesn't automatically release things in the trainer people. Just because its not there has no connection to it being rare or not either.
Post by: Terroking on May 30, 2010, 01:51:32 am
I'm actually somewhat bothered by the terminology. Wouldn't it be simpler to say Steam: Steam Machine gains +4/+0. Steam Machine loses -1/-0 until its attack is 0.Well, it's because of the way it works with base attack.
For example, if I take an unbuffed Steam Machine and use the ability, it'll end up 3/8 at the end of my turn. After 3 more turns, it will have reached 0 attack.
If I use Blessing on it, then the ability, it will be 6/11 at the end of my turn. 3 turns later, it will be 3/11. Even after the next turn, it will continue to have 3 attack as a minimum. That's why simply saying 0 isn't accurate.
(This was all from something Zanz said in chat)
Our first mechanical card ( I don´t want mechanical life) . 3 fire for 10 damage?We already have a machine, Armagio, so putting another one in isn't going against any rules. I don't know what you mean, but it essentially gains +3/+0 per turn as long as you can keep paying for it. The -1/+0 is a passive effect, so it'll affect the creature once at the end of each turn.
Will one point/turn be removed per use of the skill or in general -1/turn regardless of the number of times you used the skill?
And what will adrenaline do?
Adrenaline will make it lose attack faster. I'm not entirely sure how the turns it'll get would be calculated, but I think it would just count the ones so far according to the attack it has so far.
For example:
5/15
4/15
3/15
2/15
9/15
8/15
7/15
Post by: miniwally on May 30, 2010, 02:01:47 am
Post by: Terroking on May 30, 2010, 02:16:24 am
How would antimatter work on it?It wouldn't lose any attack from it's ability if the attack was equal to or less than it's full attack.
For example (Although this contradicts you Essence, I think it's right):
I use the ability and end my turn. 3/15
Next turn, I do the same. 6/15
I use it a 3rd and then a 4th time. 12/15
My opponent uses Anti-matter on the Steam Machine. -12/15
I use the ability. -8/15
I use it again. -4/15
I do nothing. -4/15
I use it again. 0/15
Post by: Glitch on May 30, 2010, 02:50:10 am
I was under the impression it would work like this
-12
Active ability
-8
Passive ability
-9
....
It would go back down to -12 again and stop.
Post by: finkel on May 30, 2010, 03:29:50 am
Am I the only one that thinks Fire and Water are opposing elements and should NOT be paired together?>>Yes.
Quote from: plastiqe link=topic=7164.msg85103#msg85103 date=1275173043'
I like the picture, I like the abilities but I don't like the pairing of water and fire. There are certian elements that are natural enemies... Life & Death, Darkness & Light etc. Also, a machine that runs on Steam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam) should belong to the realm of Air.>>Fire+Water=Steam.
Post by: hello5666 on May 30, 2010, 04:56:08 am
Post by: Arondight on May 30, 2010, 05:14:30 am
Without being able to test the card yet, I think it looks alright. I want to try it out. :)
Post by: Essence on May 30, 2010, 05:49:43 am
Post by: MrSexington on May 31, 2010, 12:01:37 am
Am I the only one that thinks Fire and Water are opposing elements and should NOT be paired together?I disagree.
I like the picture, I like the abilities but I don't like the pairing of water and fire. There are certian elements that are natural enemies... Life & Death, Darkness & Light etc. Also, a machine that runs on Steam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam) should belong to the realm of Air.
It doesn't matter if it's water, ice, or steam, it's all H20 molecules.
That's like saying a puddle of water should be Earth.
(Not sure why you linked to that wikipedia link.)
Post by: Tea is good on May 31, 2010, 01:15:24 am
Edit: figured out what I was trying to say. You can't build a reliable 30 card based around this card. You need several water pillars to get it out and at least three fire pillars to make it better than ablaze. Thats only for one. if you want two you need 6 fire pillars and more water pillars. If you wanted to make duos more workable, this would have to cost less. Because the player will obviously want to put explosions, congeals,RPs and all the other goodies from each element. The deck size for this deck has to be limited to 30 because all fire/water has no extra card draw. In conclusion, make it 2 fire per turn, or lower the cost please?
Post by: Dragoon1140 on May 31, 2010, 02:14:33 am
In conclusion, make it 2 fire per turn, or lower the cost please?Perhaps make the upgraded version only cost 2 :fire? It would provide a greater incentive due to the burdening increased :water cost.
Post by: Essence on May 31, 2010, 03:20:25 am
The lots-of- :fire -OMG argument is true, but the :water part, not so much.
Post by: Arondight on May 31, 2010, 04:02:15 am
Post by: hello5666 on May 31, 2010, 09:24:23 am
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on May 31, 2010, 09:32:19 am
Steam Machine(upped and unupped) should cost Death not fire. Don't you think?No, I don't think so. Would you mind elaborating as to why you think this?
Post by: coinich on May 31, 2010, 10:27:25 am
Post by: dekskose on May 31, 2010, 10:43:40 am
This isn't Terminator: The Card Game...anyone of you readed the description of watert when you start the game as water? ice ALCHEMY and aquatic beeings
Steam is some kind of alchemy(Steam is vaporized water. It is a transparent gas. At standard temperature and pressure, pure steam (unmixed with air, but in equilibrium with liquid water) occupies about 1,600 times the volume of an equal mass of liquid water) (wikipedia)
Post by: plastiqe on May 31, 2010, 02:29:33 pm
Quote
Air Elementals control any gaseous substance and airbourne being..Water does not get domain over every form of H20. The description clearly states that Water cards are Ice (solids) and Aquatic beings (liquids). Steam is water in gas form. Please explain why a machine that runs on steam does not qualify as an Air card, when Air is described as having control over any gaseous substance.
Post by: Decktrya on May 31, 2010, 02:32:55 pm
#QuoteAir Elementals control any gaseous substance and airbourne being..Water does not get domain over every form of H20. The description clearly states that Water cards are Ice (solids) and Aquatic beings (liquids). Steam is water in gas form. Please explain why a machine that runs on steam does not qualify as an Air card, when Air is described as having control over any gaseous substance.
are you joking do i need to qutoe my self???
This isn't Terminator: The Card Game...anyone of you readed the description of watert when you start the game as water? ice ALCHEMY and aquatic beeings
Steam is some kind of alchemy(Steam is vaporized water. It is a transparent gas. At standard temperature and pressure, pure steam (unmixed with air, but in equilibrium with liquid water) occupies about 1,600 times the volume of an equal mass of liquid water) (wikipedia)
Post by: plastiqe on May 31, 2010, 02:40:47 pm
Does Air have control over all gaseous substances? Yes or No.
Post by: Terroking on May 31, 2010, 05:05:25 pm
Is that true Terro?Actually no, Zanz has specified that it will not lose any attack due to it's passive ability if the current attack is less than or equal to it's full attack. Otherwise, it'd end up -1/15 the turn after you play it.
I was under the impression it would work like this
-12
Active ability
-8
Passive ability
-9
....
It would go back down to -12 again and stop.
Post by: dekskose on May 31, 2010, 05:41:54 pm
Is steam a gaseous substance? Yes or No.i mean do i need to 1000 quote me cant you read what is yellow steam is absoulutly not air its a mixture of water and fire
Does Air have control over all gaseous substances? Yes or No.
#QuoteAir Elementals control any gaseous substance and airbourne being..Water does not get domain over every form of H20. The description clearly states that Water cards are Ice (solids) and Aquatic beings (liquids). Steam is water in gas form. Please explain why a machine that runs on steam does not qualify as an Air card, when Air is described as having control over any gaseous substance.
are you joking do i need to qutoe my self???This isn't Terminator: The Card Game...anyone of you readed the description of watert when you start the game as water? ice ALCHEMY and aquatic beeings
Steam is some kind of alchemy(Steam is vaporized water. It is a transparent gas. At standard temperature and pressure, pure steam (unmixed with air, but in equilibrium with liquid water) occupies about 1,600 times the volume of an equal mass of liquid water) (wikipedia)
Post by: melzardust on May 31, 2010, 06:19:45 pm
Post by: Asris on May 31, 2010, 06:24:45 pm
I can't picture this being Air/Fire since you need water to create steam, while not being able to say the same about air. Air's domain is air and gaseous substance, but I don't agree that it has control over the excess product of water and fire merging. If you think it does, why not say most creatures belong in Air since they need air to exist, life due to the fact the majority are alive or for that matter be in the water domain since we're about 75% water and I assume animals aren't all that different.
Post by: Xinef on May 31, 2010, 07:22:08 pm
Ok, air and fire do have a synergy because of unstable gas, but unstable gas decks are aiming to be fast, so they would work better with other air creatures for support. Air is not a very defensive element and it's only way of stalling is to kill creatures with eagle eye, shockwave, unstable gas/thunderstorm. The fog shield might help a bit with stalling but not enough. You might try to use fire for more creature control but you would still lose to anything with tough creatures (light, gravity, some earth decks etc.)
I guess in water Steam Machines would be much more useful because permafrost + congeal + squids + flood + trident (if you add earth) offer a better stall deck giving you time to pump Steam Machines.
Post by: Amilir on May 31, 2010, 07:42:22 pm
Post by: Xinef on May 31, 2010, 07:51:39 pm
But the machine itself is made of metal! It clearly needs to be earth![loltag]
It also has golden parts and I'm sure it could only be constructed by a skilled clockmaker!
Therefore it is clearly a :time creature!
[/loltag]
Post by: Arondight on June 01, 2010, 03:19:00 am
It has a shadow in the picture, it's clearly a Darkness creature. Duh.But the machine itself is made of metal! It clearly needs to be earth![loltag]
It also has golden parts and I'm sure it could only be constructed by a skilled clockmaker!
Therefore it is clearly a :time creature!
[/loltag]
Post by: killsdazombies on June 01, 2010, 03:20:22 am
Post by: Bloodshadow on June 01, 2010, 03:41:52 am
but its got steam in the name so its air, duh.......Steam is water vapor. Should water vapor be Water or Air?
Post by: killsdazombies on June 01, 2010, 03:45:13 am
Post by: Zeru on June 01, 2010, 10:37:45 am
;D
Post by: hello5666 on June 01, 2010, 10:44:15 am
Steam Machine(upped and unupped) should cost Death not fire. Don't you think?No, I don't think so. Would you mind elaborating as to why you think this?
:water :death :fire don't get together.
Post by: xdude on June 01, 2010, 11:50:41 am
lolwut? Please use sentences that make sense...Steam Machine(upped and unupped) should cost Death not fire. Don't you think?No, I don't think so. Would you mind elaborating as to why you think this?
:water :death :fire don't get together.
Post by: BluePriest on June 01, 2010, 12:19:16 pm
Its ability adds fire to the machine, so the ability costs :fire
By that combination, it produces steam. So its name has Steam in it.
It isnt a steam creature, its a machine wit water in it, that produces steam when you add fire to heat it up.
So I really dont see a problem with the element of the card.
Post by: Zeru on June 01, 2010, 12:43:09 pm
So I really dont see a problem with the element of the card.Neither do most of us. We were joking so please stop debating already.
Post by: BluePriest on June 01, 2010, 01:34:14 pm
I know most dont, im talking about the people saying it should be air and really think it should be,.So I really dont see a problem with the element of the card.Neither do most of us. We were joking so please stop debating already.
Post by: Bloodshadow on June 02, 2010, 01:13:08 am
What, you want to add this to a :water :death poison-freeze deck?Steam Machine(upped and unupped) should cost Death not fire. Don't you think?No, I don't think so. Would you mind elaborating as to why you think this?
:water :death :fire don't get together.
No. It doesn't make sense to have a steam machine cost :death.
Post by: assassim on June 02, 2010, 04:01:22 am
Post by: PuppyChow on June 02, 2010, 04:03:18 am
So it should be other!
Post by: yaladilae on June 02, 2010, 04:49:29 am
As before mentioned, it has parts of every element in it. Fire, water, air, entropy, death, time, dark...It should also gain +2|0 on it base when you are wielding a hammer/gavel, to fit the 'other' theme
So it should be other!
Also any armaigo played in the field will empower each other robots so steam machine should get 0|+3 too
Oh, of cource if your mark is water, it get moist and rust easier, so this should get 0|-2
Then if your mark is time, unless your time quanta is 10+, this creature should do nothing becaue with a lower time quanta pool means you are in an more ancient age where robot shouldnt exist
Then since this machine is just a machine, mark of life and aether should do nothing to it....
Without steam, this thing wont move, so I also suggest it gains statis when its charge token is zero. When its charge token is over 20, it should self explode since its over heated inside...
Now if you keep going, this card needs big change =)
P.S I really like it the way it is, eating 3 is fiine, and it gives some reason to use SoR too. especially water having access to nymph tear which makes other use for SoR. This card is great!
Post by: tallguy2241 on June 02, 2010, 07:10:34 am
Post by: Arondight on June 02, 2010, 07:14:46 am
Perhaps every turn it is losing ATK it produces 1 :air as it lets off steam.That's a really good idea. I'm all for it if it's possible.
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 02, 2010, 06:20:00 pm
Perhaps every turn it is losing ATK it produces 1 :air as it lets off steam.Now that's an interesting idea...
Post by: Tea is good on June 02, 2010, 06:36:41 pm
Post by: Terroking on June 02, 2010, 07:02:54 pm
That is and interesting idea. Shouldn't actually be too hard to code, just make it do something like IF: CURRENTATK=>FULLATK. TRUE=+ (-1) CURRENTATK (+1 Airquanta). That's all a guess though, I wouldn't be surprised if it were completely wrong and this was impossible.Perhaps every turn it is losing ATK it produces 1 :air as it lets off steam.Now that's an interesting idea...
Post by: yaladilae on June 02, 2010, 08:04:47 pm
Perhaps every turn it is losing ATK it produces 1 :air as it lets off steam.Then the turn after air quanta is produced, it should infect 1 poison damage, because lets face it, burn something to produce heat to produce steam, that thing usually stink
Post by: Kuroaitou on June 02, 2010, 09:12:01 pm
Actually yaladilae, his idea of having the effect of 'losing steam' being translated to the production of :air is a really smart (logical, and practical) concept, and I'll be very excited about the idea of having a creature that connects three elements in a reasonable manner (even if it's hard to utilize all three in a deck). I think the poison thing you mentioned is overdoing it. ^^;;Perhaps every turn it is losing ATK it produces 1 :air as it lets off steam.Then the turn after air quanta is produced, it should infect 1 poison damage, because lets face it, burn something to produce heat to produce steam, that thing usually stink
Otherwise, with or without the new :air generation mechanic, this card still looks fantastic. :)
Post by: yaladilae on June 02, 2010, 11:30:36 pm
I think the poison thing you mentioned is overdoing it. ^^;;It did the job and made you smile =P
Otherwise, with or without the new :air generation mechanic, this card still looks fantastic. :)
And I agree, its a great card as it stands
Post by: Essence on June 03, 2010, 12:07:37 am
Not that I wouldn't love it if it gave off :air quanta (Toadfish FTW!), but it's not a physical necessity. :)
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on June 03, 2010, 04:28:08 am
I fully support this idea, however, it may make the card a rare. This makes a nice synergy with Fire and Water, and enforces the synergy with Water and Air, AND it also allows some more synergy with Fire and Air, allowing an effective trio-deck of :water :fire :air . Steam Machine, Unstable Gas, Congeal, Ice Shield, Firefly, Explosion, Firestorm, Rage Elixir, etc.Perhaps every turn it is losing ATK it produces 1 :air as it lets off steam.Now that's an interesting idea...
I could already see a deck that used Water Towers, Mark of Fire, and had Elite Fireflies to make :fire quantum. SoRs would work nicely, too.
Post by: teffy on June 03, 2010, 10:45:34 am
Post by: miniwally on June 03, 2010, 01:07:12 pm
Post by: Avenger on June 03, 2010, 01:40:51 pm
It'll survive cause it's a water card.It's a steamer :P
Post by: Italy2 on June 04, 2010, 12:00:45 am
Post by: Essence on June 04, 2010, 01:51:07 am
I'd probably rarely use this upgraded.
Post by: dragonhuman on June 04, 2010, 02:23:10 am
Just a quick question -- is it really worth TWO more :water to have it go from 0|8 to 0|15?is it worth the artwork change?
I'd probably rarely use this upgraded.
Post by: Zac33333 on June 04, 2010, 02:34:50 am
Too...Much...sexy...ROBOT!
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 04, 2010, 02:39:25 am
This art tells me fotosynthesis has too much time on his hands XDIIRC, this has been in fotosyntesis' Spore gallery for quite some time. I've seen it before.
Too...Much...sexy...ROBOT!
Post by: Zac33333 on June 04, 2010, 04:03:45 am
Well I didnt know this was Spore, and I always hated SPORE because the phr33 version was too limited and confusing. Im on a 0$ budget :pThis art tells me fotosynthesis has too much time on his hands XDIIRC, this has been in fotosyntesis' Spore gallery for quite some time. I've seen it before.
Too...Much...sexy...ROBOT!
Post by: hitsugaya_omfg on June 04, 2010, 04:11:48 am
Just a minor point: most steam engines aren't built to lose steam. It's perfectly feasable to create a steam engine that doesn't, in fact. The point of losing the ATK generated by the ability is that the water inside the machine is cooling down and recondensing, not that it's escaping.and im sure u read that in ur steam engine hand guide -.-
Not that I wouldn't love it if it gave off :air quanta (Toadfish FTW!), but it's not a physical necessity. :)
doesnt matter :water forming :air by way of :fire its a great idea u dont have 2 b a poo-poo head and put the guys idea down :/
Edited out bad word
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 04, 2010, 05:19:51 am
Welcome to the forums, hitsugaya. Please keep it civil when offering disagreements.Just a minor point: most steam engines aren't built to lose steam. It's perfectly feasable to create a steam engine that doesn't, in fact. The point of losing the ATK generated by the ability is that the water inside the machine is cooling down and recondensing, not that it's escaping.and im sure u read that in ur steam engine hand guide -.-
Not that I wouldn't love it if it gave off :air quanta (Toadfish FTW!), but it's not a physical necessity. :)
doesnt matter :water forming :air by way of :fire its a great idea u dont have 2 b a poo-poo head and put the guys idea down :/
Post by: Arondight on June 04, 2010, 06:45:27 am
Just a quick question -- is it really worth TWO more :water to have it go from 0|8 to 0|15?I was thinking the same thing, it's mostly an expensive form of Graviton Firemaster.
I'd probably rarely use this upgraded.
Post by: omgarm on June 04, 2010, 12:09:52 pm
Just a minor point: most steam engines aren't built to lose steam. It's perfectly feasable to create a steam engine that doesn't, in fact. The point of losing the ATK generated by the ability is that the water inside the machine is cooling down and recondensing, not that it's escaping.It could work of you think of it like this:
Not that I wouldn't love it if it gave off :air quanta (Toadfish FTW!), but it's not a physical necessity. :)
The Machine is a water elemental (machine >_>) thus it has an inifinite supply of water. Adding a short boost of fire gets it going, but it does not have to retain the water and thus lets off steam.
Kind of like a perpetuum mobile, except not really since this is a game and I just like defending the idea of a tri-element combo.
Post by: BluePriest on June 04, 2010, 02:21:08 pm
Its essence talking about something that deals with water... so yeah, he probably did read it in his steam engine hand guide :PJust a minor point: most steam engines aren't built to lose steam. It's perfectly feasable to create a steam engine that doesn't, in fact. The point of losing the ATK generated by the ability is that the water inside the machine is cooling down and recondensing, not that it's escaping.and im sure u read that in ur steam engine hand guide -.-
Not that I wouldn't love it if it gave off :air quanta (Toadfish FTW!), but it's not a physical necessity. :)
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 04, 2010, 08:47:29 pm
+1 ;)Its essence talking about something that deals with water... so yeah, he probably did read it in his steam engine hand guide :PJust a minor point: most steam engines aren't built to lose steam. It's perfectly feasable to create a steam engine that doesn't, in fact. The point of losing the ATK generated by the ability is that the water inside the machine is cooling down and recondensing, not that it's escaping.and im sure u read that in ur steam engine hand guide -.-
Not that I wouldn't love it if it gave off :air quanta (Toadfish FTW!), but it's not a physical necessity. :)
Post by: harakirinosaru on June 04, 2010, 09:12:56 pm
Anyway...if you Twin Universe this, will it's new floor attack be the attack it had when you TU'd it?
Example: If you put in into play, and then next turn use it's ability (4/8) and then TU it (4/8) will the TU'd copy be 4/8 at the end of the turn while the original goes down to 3/8?
Perhaps every turn it is losing ATK it produces 1 :air as it lets off steam.Well, this is a game, and as PuppyChow pointed out, it doesn't have to make sense.
But SG would argue that it did, so...
My point is that H20 is still H20 regardless of state. There's no change happening here. It would make more sense, if it were to produce Air, to produce 3 :air when targeted by Thunderbolt or Lightning Storm, since that's what happens in a world where physics isn't just a funny word.
However, this is a good idea. Mono-Water UGs? Super Toadfish/Steam Engine CC?
Post by: Marvaddin on June 04, 2010, 10:37:03 pm
The Air quanta production can be interesting, but I kind of dislike a creature being involved with 3 elements, at least for now.. unless we have a series of it. :D
I think it can have a cost of +2 :water for + 0/7, once its almost immortal to Otyughs, but maybe its just expensive, could be 4 :water and 6 :water instead.
Post by: Bloodshadow on June 05, 2010, 12:17:59 am
Quote
Still dont see this as a powerfull card. People are saying its great, any deck ideas already?Do you even like anything in the game? I bet you think Fractal is overpowered.
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on June 05, 2010, 12:33:29 am
Just a quick question -- is it really worth TWO more :water to have it go from 0|8 to 0|15?Yes. You have to have fire quanta anyway, so you might as well pack in a rage potion. That would increase its base attack to 5, while not making it susceptible to creature control (10 Health is still enough to survive any one spell card)
I'd probably rarely use this upgraded.
Post by: PuppyChow on June 05, 2010, 01:12:16 am
*cough* SoR *cough*
Post by: Marvaddin on June 05, 2010, 01:14:08 am
Well, looks like you are trying to flame me, but I will answer you. In fact, I like the game, and I like many things, including many cards that have interesting themes / concepts / mechanics. Although your cards usually seem retarded to me, like most of your arguments, this doesnt mean I dont like anything. I even like THIS card, although I dont think its powerful, because I like the theme. More questions?QuoteStill dont see this as a powerfull card. People are saying its great, any deck ideas already?Do you even like anything in the game? I bet you think Fractal is overpowered.
Post by: Terroking on June 05, 2010, 01:32:44 am
Well.... That's probably because it is.QuoteStill dont see this as a powerfull card. People are saying its great, any deck ideas already?Do you even like anything in the game? I bet you think Fractal is overpowered.
Post by: Bloodshadow on June 05, 2010, 02:27:12 am
Well, looks like you are trying to flame me, but I will answer you. In fact, I like the game, and I like many things, including many cards that have interesting themes / concepts / mechanics. Although your cards usually seem retarded to me, like most of your arguments, this doesnt mean I dont like anything. I even like THIS card, although I dont think its powerful, because I like the theme. More questions?No, I was not trying to flame you. I just haven't seen you say anything positive ever, and wondered if you even like the game itself. However, I did not use offensive language by calling you a retard, so I'm not sure if I'm the one trying to flame someone.
Post by: Marvaddin on June 05, 2010, 02:58:52 am
In fact, I didnt understand what was so good about your post to make you click the post button. I really have nothing against you, nor I care about what you think about me, and maybe we can even have a productive discussion in the future about anything, just dont think the forum deserves something so pointless like you saying Im a negative guy. If I say "card isnt powerful", show me wrong posting a deck, for example, instead of doing this, dont you agree?
Sorry all for this. Looks like me and BS had a bad start ;)
Now, back to the card, anyone thinking about decks?
Post by: Bloodshadow on June 05, 2010, 03:14:29 am
As for decks... I might use some Burning Pillars, some Deflags, along with this...
Mark of Fire
12 Sapphire Pillar
6 Steam Machine
8 Burning Pillar
4 Deflagration
Post by: yaladilae on June 05, 2010, 07:10:27 am
OK... Marvaddin, seems like you have the same problem as I sometimes have: saying what you really mean. Maybe you sound like a jerk, but you actually weren't trying to be a jerk at all. No worries ;)That deck is sooooooo vanilla, but i guess its the darkness style that made you vanilla [/sarcasum] [/dodge from hit list]
As for decks... I might use some Burning Pillars, some Deflags, along with this...
Mark of Fire
12 Sapphire Pillar
6 Steam Machine
8 Burning Pillar
4 Deflagration
Anyway, I am more thinking a complex deck with some SoR, or some combination of mark, phoenix and cremation to power the machines while using water to naturally stall. Need it in trainer to play around tho
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 05, 2010, 09:11:58 am
1st, if you didnt see me saying anything positive, you should search more...sorry but I can't see any - got a link for me? ;)
steam machine is alright but tbh I don't think I'd use it ^^
Post by: relic master on June 05, 2010, 03:26:55 pm
Post by: Terroking on June 05, 2010, 07:30:42 pm
I WANT THIS CARD TO COME OUT!It's in the trainer now ;)
EDIT: And the unupped has 6 cost.
Post by: finkel on June 05, 2010, 07:45:25 pm
(10 Health is still enough to survive any one spell card)False. Drain Life. Siphon Life. Fire bolt. Fire lance. Ice bolt. Ice lance.
Edit: Also, chaos seed and mutation.
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 05, 2010, 08:09:22 pm
I WANT THIS CARD TO COME OUT!It's in the trainer now ;)
EDIT: And the unupped has 6 cost.
let's get cracking!!!!
Post by: Bloodshadow on June 05, 2010, 09:10:38 pm
Quote
That deck is sooooooo vanilla, but i guess its the darkness style that made you vanilla [/sarcasum] [/dodge from hit list]Don't worry, you're already on my hit list for choosing Darkness as the worst element. >:D >:D >:D
Quote
Anyway, I am more thinking a complex deck with some SoR, or some combination of mark, phoenix and cremation to power the machines while using water to naturally stall.Cremations could work too... But not everyone has SoR. Oh well, I'll play around with it.
Oh, and apparently there is another card in development: Pandemonium (http://elementsthegame.com/development.html).
Post by: Kuroaitou on June 05, 2010, 09:26:11 pm
O_oQuoteThat deck is sooooooo vanilla, but i guess its the darkness style that made you vanilla [/sarcasum] [/dodge from hit list]Don't worry, you're already on my hit list for choosing Darkness as the worst element. >:D >:D >:DQuoteAnyway, I am more thinking a complex deck with some SoR, or some combination of mark, phoenix and cremation to power the machines while using water to naturally stall.Cremations could work too... But not everyone has SoR. Oh well, I'll play around with it.
Oh, and apparently there is another card in development: Pandemonium (http://elementsthegame.com/development.html).
Whoa. That's another interesting card...
Post by: ymmel on June 05, 2010, 10:00:45 pm
Post by: Essence on June 05, 2010, 10:44:11 pm
It's in the trainer now ;)
EDIT: And the unupped has 6 cost.
Oooh, oooh, can I take credit?!? 8)
[edit]
Having finally spent a day playing with Steam Machine, I have to say that it sucks. It's too expensive to play, it's ability is too expensive to use.
Graviton Fire Eater has 3 less HP and only gains 2 attack per turn, but only costs 2 to play and 1 to activate, and it's power doesn't tick down over time. Graviton Firemaster is even better in comparison to Elite Steam Machine.
Both of the Graviton cards work well because they're splashably cheap in both directions -- :fire deck with :gravity mark can use them well, and so can :gravity deck with :fire mark. Steam Machine doesn't splash in either direction. It forces you to play a balanced water/fire deck, and it's not even stellar in that context. The massive HP doesn't make up for the slow speed and the massive :fire sink, and the extra 1 point of attack every turn vs. Ablaze doesn't either.
Fire Spirit vs. Graviton Fire Master is understandable -- both are cheap and quick Ablaze critters, but you pay for going off-element by adding some much-needed HP. The HP you get for going with Steam Machine aren't worth the added cost, and the ability is so much less useful because of the tripled cost.
It's slow, it forces your deck to be clunky, and it seems like it's only purpose is to get people to donate for Shards of Readiness, which is even more upsetting.
[/edit]
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on June 06, 2010, 03:12:33 am
I have to agree entirely with this statement. Honestly, I wouldn't mind paying :fire :fire :fire if the power didn't tick down at the end of every turn, but as is right now, it's just too expensive. Make the skill cost :fire :fire, and reduce the play cost of both the unupped and the upped versions by one and two respectively, and then this card might see some play. Otherwise, it'll be just another useless card. I had high hopes for this, but really, the only way I see it being played is with an FG.It's in the trainer now ;)
EDIT: And the unupped has 6 cost.
Oooh, oooh, can I take credit?!? 8)
[edit]
Having finally spent a day playing with Steam Machine, I have to say that it sucks. It's too expensive to play, it's ability is too expensive to use.
Graviton Fire Eater has 3 less HP and only gains 2 attack per turn, but only costs 2 to play and 1 to activate, and it's power doesn't tick down over time. Graviton Firemaster is even better in comparison to Elite Steam Machine.
Both of the Graviton cards work well because they're splashably cheap in both directions -- :fire deck with :gravity mark can use them well, and so can :gravity deck with :fire mark. Steam Machine doesn't splash in either direction. It forces you to play a balanced water/fire deck, and it's not even stellar in that context. The massive HP doesn't make up for the slow speed and the massive :fire sink, and the extra 1 point of attack every turn vs. Ablaze doesn't either.
Fire Spirit vs. Graviton Fire Master is understandable -- both are cheap and quick Ablaze critters, but you pay for going off-element by adding some much-needed HP. The HP you get for going with Steam Machine aren't worth the added cost, and the ability is so much less useful because of the tripled cost.
It's slow, it forces your deck to be clunky, and it seems like it's only purpose is to get people to donate for Shards of Readiness, which is even more upsetting.
[/edit]
Post by: zanzarino on June 06, 2010, 03:14:24 am
Post by: Essence on June 06, 2010, 03:20:08 am
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 06, 2010, 04:42:40 am
Code: [Select]
5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80bSteam Machines are unupped in order to take advantage of the lower cost.
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.
Post by: tinkady on June 06, 2010, 07:03:57 am
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on June 06, 2010, 07:09:46 am
Both those things already happened uncle - refresh :)...I love you, Zanz. <3
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 06, 2010, 07:35:03 am
Post by: tinkady on June 06, 2010, 08:30:47 am
i've been messing with this card a bit in the trainer, and i like your setup jmizzle. i added a few phase shields and scaled back on everything else (and changed mark to water and made more aether towers) but they might have just made things slower...PU really works well with this card.
i think shrieker/graboid rush is still much faster than the deck i was using
Post by: Boingo on June 06, 2010, 10:13:23 pm
It's slow, it forces your deck to be clunky.....like a steam machine.
it seems like it's only purpose is to get people to donate for Shards of Readiness, which is even more upsetting.Agreed.
Honestly, I don't like the addition of a machine to a game called "Elements". Yes, I recognize Armagio looks like a robot/machine too--not a big fan of that one either, and thankfully it's never actually been played by a human player.
Of the 3 new cards, this is the most gimmicky. I suppose it's aiming for unstable gas synergy (thus the high hp) and while I welcome cards offering new synergies, this card isn't as good as I had hoped for.
Post by: $$$man on June 06, 2010, 10:41:37 pm
A.making a water fire duo to use steam machine
B.paying for Wings(new air card)with machines cool down(if it happens)
C.Using pandemonium via mark and using the creature control for enemy creatures and barely even making the epically resistent steam machine flinch
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Avenger on June 07, 2010, 11:47:44 am
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.This is very bad, isn't it?
Post by: Arondight on June 07, 2010, 12:52:13 pm
Here's my take on a Steam Machine deck. It's super fun! :)I tried it out and it's pretty fast. I tinkered around with it a bit and switched out two Steam Machines for Arctic Squid, removed some Sapphire Towers in place of Aether Towers, and changed the mark to :water. Parallel Universe + Shard of Readiness + Arctic Squids is a good stalling method while growing the Steam Machines. :) It sure makes a mockery of other speed decks without control, too.Code: [Select]5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b
Steam Machines are unupped in order to take advantage of the lower cost.
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.
Post by: Essence on June 08, 2010, 05:43:19 pm
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.This is very bad, isn't it?
Only if you're playing against Steam Machines and you have Lobotomizer. :)
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 08, 2010, 05:48:07 pm
I guess the moral of the story is don't lobo until they are on low again??! >_<I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.This is very bad, isn't it?
Only if you're playing against Steam Machines and you have Lobotomizer. :)
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 08, 2010, 06:27:13 pm
I guess the moral of the story is don't lobo until they are on low again??! >_<Like a player in control of a steam machine will stop using its ability lol...
Post by: Ant-n-ero on June 08, 2010, 07:20:24 pm
anything could happen - EQ/Pulvy/devourer/BH w/e, might want to play some other cards insteadI guess the moral of the story is don't lobo until they are on low again??! >_<Like a player in control of a steam machine will stop using its ability lol...
might lose all his quanta and not be able to use it for a few turns >_< - then lobo comes into play XD
Post by: harakirinosaru on June 08, 2010, 09:31:12 pm
Here's my take on a Steam Machine deck. It's super fun! :)I take full credit.Code: [Select]5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b
Steam Machines are unupped in order to take advantage of the lower cost.
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.
If you have 50 Fire/Darkness/Ice Quanta. At that point you will have lost.(10 Health is still enough to survive any one spell card)False. Drain Life. Siphon Life. Fire bolt. Fire lance. Ice bolt. Ice lance.
Edit: Also, chaos seed and mutation.
Also, last two aren't real cards, hadn't you heard?
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 08, 2010, 10:06:02 pm
Full credit for what?Here's my take on a Steam Machine deck. It's super fun! :)I take full credit.Code: [Select]5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b
Steam Machines are unupped in order to take advantage of the lower cost.
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.
Post by: Arondight on June 08, 2010, 11:21:20 pm
[edit]I have to agree about the cost and the shard part (and pretty much everything else). In other cases, it's just plain slow and annoying to generate enough quanta to use it.
Having finally spent a day playing with Steam Machine, I have to say that it sucks. It's too expensive to play, it's ability is too expensive to use.
Graviton Fire Eater has 3 less HP and only gains 2 attack per turn, but only costs 2 to play and 1 to activate, and it's power doesn't tick down over time. Graviton Firemaster is even better in comparison to Elite Steam Machine.
Both of the Graviton cards work well because they're splashably cheap in both directions -- :fire deck with :gravity mark can use them well, and so can :gravity deck with :fire mark. Steam Machine doesn't splash in either direction. It forces you to play a balanced water/fire deck, and it's not even stellar in that context. The massive HP doesn't make up for the slow speed and the massive :fire sink, and the extra 1 point of attack every turn vs. Ablaze doesn't either.
Fire Spirit vs. Graviton Fire Master is understandable -- both are cheap and quick Ablaze critters, but you pay for going off-element by adding some much-needed HP. The HP you get for going with Steam Machine aren't worth the added cost, and the ability is so much less useful because of the tripled cost.
It's slow, it forces your deck to be clunky, and it seems like it's only purpose is to get people to donate for Shards of Readiness, which is even more upsetting.
[/edit]
Post by: tinkady on June 09, 2010, 03:25:54 am
Post by: harakirinosaru on June 09, 2010, 04:09:22 am
Giving you the PU idea.Full credit for what?Here's my take on a Steam Machine deck. It's super fun! :)I take full credit.Code: [Select]5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b
Steam Machines are unupped in order to take advantage of the lower cost.
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.
Also, if the cooldown is active, then why does it still cooldown under procrastination?
Post by: jmizzle7 on June 09, 2010, 04:49:04 am
Post by: Zac33333 on June 09, 2010, 10:59:12 am
Fire (heat)+Water(liquid)=Steam(gas)
F²(H)+W(L²)=Steam²(G²)
MATH FTW
Post by: Mrd3ath on June 11, 2010, 12:03:00 am
Post by: OldTrees on June 11, 2010, 04:35:18 am
This card is way too yu-gi-oh'ish!How? What component of this is similar to yugioh?
Post by: Mrd3ath on June 11, 2010, 12:47:57 pm
The whole aspect of a robotic monster. :PThis card is way too yu-gi-oh'ish!How? What component of this is similar to yugioh?
Post by: ddevans96 on June 12, 2010, 10:34:57 pm
LOLThe whole aspect of a robotic monster. :PThis card is way too yu-gi-oh'ish!How? What component of this is similar to yugioh?
I used this in trainer, it's really cool. Also adds to a cool deck I'm creating. xD
Post by: OldTrees on June 13, 2010, 04:53:45 am
1) Robotic monsters are not new to elements. (See Armagio)The whole aspect of a robotic monster. :PThis card is way too yu-gi-oh'ish!How? What component of this is similar to yugioh?
2) Yugioh has a diverse variety of creature types. Dragons are a more common yugioh creature type.
3) Yugioh isn't the only major card game that includes robotic monsters. Magic the Gathering has lots of Artifact Creatures.
Post by: Mrd3ath on June 13, 2010, 03:45:43 pm
Well armagio, you can't see all the gears and stuff. ;D1) Robotic monsters are not new to elements. (See Armagio)The whole aspect of a robotic monster. :PThis card is way too yu-gi-oh'ish!How? What component of this is similar to yugioh?
2) Yugioh has a diverse variety of creature types. Dragons are a more common yugioh creature type.
3) Yugioh isn't the only major card game that includes robotic monsters. Magic the Gathering has lots of Artifact Creatures.
Post by: BluePriest on June 14, 2010, 12:40:08 am
but its still clearly a robotWell armagio, you can't see all the gears and stuff. ;D1) Robotic monsters are not new to elements. (See Armagio)The whole aspect of a robotic monster. :PThis card is way too yu-gi-oh'ish!How? What component of this is similar to yugioh?
2) Yugioh has a diverse variety of creature types. Dragons are a more common yugioh creature type.
3) Yugioh isn't the only major card game that includes robotic monsters. Magic the Gathering has lots of Artifact Creatures.
Post by: Essence on June 14, 2010, 12:47:14 am
Otaku across Japan agree.
Post by: Arondight on June 14, 2010, 01:51:28 am
Post by: Xinef on June 14, 2010, 06:14:57 pm
Nah, it's a mecha. There's a difference.The funny thing is that when I look closely at Armagio, I think it could be interpreted as an organic creature in heavy armor that resembles a mecha (especially the wings)... or it could be a real mecha... hard to distinguish.
Otaku across Japan agree.
Post by: Arondight on June 14, 2010, 09:34:03 pm
Or it could be equal parts organic and equal parts robotic.Nah, it's a mecha. There's a difference.The funny thing is that when I look closely at Armagio, I think it could be interpreted as an organic creature in heavy armor that resembles a mecha (especially the wings)... or it could be a real mecha... hard to distinguish.
Otaku across Japan agree.
But, we're digressing as bit far here. :)
Post by: Cynxos on June 14, 2010, 10:30:50 pm
Here's my take on a Steam Machine deck. It's super fun! :)I just took this deck out for a test run in the trainer and... It's surpisingly fast.Code: [Select]5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 5ii 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 6rq 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 7gk 808 808 808 808 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b
Steam Machines are unupped in order to take advantage of the lower cost.
I was quite surprised to see that the cooldown effect is part of the active skill and isn't a passive skill like swarm or mummy. That means that lobotomize removes it, leaving you with a Steam Machine with high attack power that doesn't decrease.
I mean, it could actually work as a pretty decent speed deck.
Post by: Essence on June 16, 2010, 01:38:18 pm
Quote from: ScaredGirl
What I think about Steam Machine? Well, to me it seems a bit underpowered. Cost of 2 is pretty high to pay each turn and guarantees that your Mark alone is not enough. Combined with the relatively high cost of Steam Machine, it's clear that 50/50 duo is pretty much the only deck that can use this card effectively. One other option of course is to take more like shields and Congeal, and make a kind of stalling deck to you time to get those Machines bigger, but even then you need a lof of Fire Pillars because that steam is not cheap.
And this is AFTER the drop in cost to 5 :water to cast and 2 :fire to activate. Pretty much exactly my initial argument, remade here. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,8197.0.html)
Post by: UPRC on June 16, 2010, 03:51:06 pm
Post by: PuppyChow on June 17, 2010, 11:35:25 pm
Let's compare it to Abyss Crawler. 6/6 for 4 :water .
Accumulative damage, if both are played on the same turn:
| Creature | Turn 1 | Turn 2 | Turn 3 | Turn 4 | Turn 5 | Turn 6 |
| Abyssal Crawler | 6 | 12 | 18 | 24 | 30 | 36 |
| Steam Machine | 0 | 4 | 11 | 21 | 34 | 51 |
Accumulative cost, if both are played on the same turn:
| Creature | Turn 1 | Turn 2 | Turn 3 | Turn 4 | Turn 5 | Turn 6 |
| Abyssal Crawler | 4 :water | 4 :water | 4 :water | 4 :water | 4 :water | 4 :water |
| Steam Machine | 5 :water | 5 :water , 2 :fire | 5 :water , 4 :fire | 5 :water , 6 :fire | 5 :water , 8 :fire | 5 :water , 10 :fire |
Or, if you look at it with SoR, you're just paying 8 :water (mono probably) but no fire quanta at all. But that's a two card combo, and still costs double that of Abyssal Crawler.
Also worth mentioning is the control the two cards are susceptible to.
| Abyssal Crawler | Rage Elixir | 10+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 20+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell | Congeal | Antimatter | Gravity Pull | Devour | ||
| Steam Machine | 40+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 70+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell | Lobo | Congeal | Rewind | Mutation | Quanta Denial (limited) | Antimatter (limited) | Gravity Pull (limited) |
To recap:
-Doesn't out-damage Abyssal Crawler until turn 5
-You will have paid at least 8 :water by then, more likely 5 :water 8 :fire . Upped, add 2 :water to both of those. Comparably, you will have only paid 4 :water with the Crawler
-Upped Machine is just as easy to control as Abyssal Crawler and unupped is probably even easier
Now, the problem with the Steam Machine isn't the ability cost. 2 Fire for what amounts to +3/+0 each turn is respectable, and the purpose of Steam Machine was to give SoR a good use. Having the ability cost 1 Fire does not give any use to SoR.
Instead, the initial cost is the problem. I would say make it cost drastically lower. 4 Water unupped, 5 Water upped for starters. Maybe as low as 3 Water unupped, 4 Water upped.
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on June 18, 2010, 12:41:20 am
Having thought more about it, Steam Machine is amazingly underpowered.I agree with this 100%. As of right now, Steam Machine isn't really worth playing unless you're using it with SoR, which most people won't have unless they either farm Top 50 for a while or donate a bunch. Lowering the casting cost for a growth-like creature with 0 starting attack power isn't going to hurt anything, and will make it a bit more playable.
Let's compare it to Abyss Crawler. 6/6 for 4 :water .
Accumulative damage, if both are played on the same turn:So you see, Steam Machine doesn't start doing more damage until 5 turns in, at which point it will start doing much more. Still, it's a moot point, when you also look at the accumulative COSTS.
Creature Turn 1 Turn 2 Turn 3 Turn 4 Turn 5 Turn 6 Abyssal Crawler 6 12 18 24 30 36 Steam Machine 0 4 11 21 34 51
Accumulative cost, if both are played on the same turn:Using unupped steam machine because the upped version has no effect on attack and so gives it the best ratio.
Creature Turn 1 Turn 2 Turn 3 Turn 4 Turn 5 Turn 6 Abyssal Crawler 4 :water 4 :water 4 :water 4 :water 4 :water 4 :water Steam Machine 5 :water 5 :water , 2 :fire 5 :water , 4 :fire 5 :water , 6 :fire 5 :water , 8 :fire 5 :water , 10 :fire
Or, if you look at it with SoR, you're just paying 8 :water (mono probably) but no fire quanta at all. But that's a two card combo, and still costs double that of Abyssal Crawler.
Also worth mentioning is the control the two cards are susceptible to.So you see, in some ways the Steam Machine is just as vulnerable to control as Abyssal Crawler is, just in different ways. I used the upped version of steam machine in this instance, so keep in mind that it also costs nearly twice as much.
Abyssal Crawler Rage Elixir 10+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 20+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell Congeal Antimatter Gravity Pull Devour Steam Machine 40+ Quanta Fire Bolt, 70+ Quanta other "Bolt-Like" Spell Lobo Congeal Rewind Mutation Quanta Denial (limited) Antimatter (limited) Gravity Pull (limited)
To recap:
-Doesn't out-damage Abyssal Crawler until turn 5
-You will have paid at least 8 :water by then, more likely 5 :water 8 :fire . Upped, add 2 :water to both of those. Comparably, you will have only paid 4 :water with the Crawler
-Upped Machine is just as easy to control as Abyssal Crawler and unupped is probably even easier
Now, the problem with the Steam Machine isn't the ability cost. 2 Fire for what amounts to +3/+0 each turn is respectable, and the purpose of Steam Machine was to give SoR a good use. Having the ability cost 1 Fire does not give any use to SoR.
Instead, the initial cost is the problem. I would say make it cost drastically lower. 4 Water unupped, 5 Water upped for starters. Maybe as low as 3 Water unupped, 4 Water upped.
Note, however, that it has amazing synergy with Rage Potion/Elixir.
Post by: icybraker on June 18, 2010, 12:44:06 am
Post by: BluePriest on June 18, 2010, 12:56:53 am
Post by: Dragoon1140 on June 18, 2010, 12:58:23 am
Post by: Essence on June 18, 2010, 07:05:07 am
I have to say, I see this on a pretty clear continum:
Fire Spirit - 2 Fire, Ablaze, 0/2
Fire Eater - 2 Gravity, Ablaze, 0/5
Steam Machine - 5 Water, Steam, 0/8.
Now, Steam is about equal to Ablaze, considering that it costs twice as much and ticks down, but every 2 turns of Steam Power is equal to 3 turns of Ablaze. I'd call that a wash. One is easier to splash, the other is significantly stronger in the long run.
The question, then, is "is it worth 3 more quanta to get 3 more HP on creatures that are otherwise equal?
I can't see any circumstances in which I can say that it is.
Post by: PuppyChow on June 18, 2010, 02:26:19 pm
Quote
The question, then, is "is it worth 3 more quanta to get 3 more HP on creatures that are otherwise equal?I think you're referring to the unupped vs. upped, and if so it's 2 more quanta to get 7 more HP.
EDIT: You're referring to fire spirit vs. steam machine. No, you're right. Also of note is that fire spirit's ability costs of-element, while steam machine's costs off-element. I advocate taking down steam machine's cost (see my post).
Post by: Arondight on June 19, 2010, 02:48:30 am
Post by: 918273645 on June 19, 2010, 02:53:36 am
Awesome artwork and great synergy between Water and Air. Zanz made the most "creative" card until now. Seems fine and balanced to me.:P :P :P Um... you mean :water and :fire? :P :P :P
Post by: Essence on June 19, 2010, 05:51:56 am
QuoteThe question, then, is "is it worth 3 more quanta to get 3 more HP on creatures that are otherwise equal?I think you're referring to the unupped vs. upped, and if so it's 2 more quanta to get 7 more HP.
EDIT: You're referring to fire spirit vs. steam machine. No, you're right. Also of note is that fire spirit's ability costs of-element, while steam machine's costs off-element. I advocate taking down steam machine's cost (see my post).
Actually, I was referring to Fire EATER vs. Steam Machine -- two cards with similarly-powered abilities that are both off-element. One costs :gravity :gravity for 0|5, and the other costs :water :water :water :water :water for 0|8, which is +3 quanta for +3 HP, assuming the abilities are about equal.
Post by: evilpwner on June 21, 2010, 10:10:45 pm
Post by: kintar on June 22, 2010, 03:46:41 am
I don't think it costs enough. 15hp seems like an awful lot for just 7 quanta. I guess that's kind of balanced out with it costing 3 quanta to do damage, with it degrading, but still...Lol, everybody else seems to be saying 6 :water is overpriced and you're saying 7 :water is underpriced...
Post by: Uncle Jellyfish on June 22, 2010, 04:24:55 am
I don't think it costs enough. 15hp seems like an awful lot for just 7 quanta. I guess that's kind of balanced out with it costing 3 quanta to do damage, with it degrading, but still...I'm confused. You think it costs too LITTLE?! It costs too much as is right now. Even with the potential to grow, the price of it's ability and the constant cooldown of it's attack power makes it little better than simply using Ablaze. I'm finding that Graviton Firemaster is a much better alternative than Steam Machine, since it is a 0/6 for a SINGLE :gravity quantum. Combined with it's +2/+0 per turn for a SINGLE :fire , and with no cooldown, it's already vastly cheaper, and you can actually have more than one out at a time without being strapped for quantum.
Also, note above that Abyss Crawler is actually better for the first five turns if both are played at the same time.
Post by: tinkady on June 23, 2010, 03:06:09 am
and/or make it a really interesting card by generating :air when it ticks down
Post by: Essence on June 23, 2010, 10:51:59 am
Personally, I like the :air idea best.
Post by: tinkady on June 23, 2010, 09:33:16 pm
this would change the whole feel of the card a lot but how about every time you use steam (which would generate :air), it ticks off separately. so if you use it twice it would be 1 2 2 2 1 ticks. the actual attack would be 3 5 6 6...so it would only have a max attack of 6 (or we could raise the initial attack by a few), but would be really effective at generating :air , being able to even generate :air :air :air :air in one turn once it builds up. that might mean we need to put the ability cost back at :fire :fire :fire, im not sure. it might actually be OP when combined with shard of readiness...idk
Post by: Essence on June 24, 2010, 04:58:44 pm
Just so y'all know.
Also, I updated the pic in the OP.
Post by: Bender74d on June 24, 2010, 06:56:40 pm
Post by: tinkady on June 24, 2010, 09:12:18 pm
or not if it messes with some master plan you got going up there :P
Post by: Essence on June 24, 2010, 10:48:57 pm
16 - 16
15 - 15/5
14 - 14/5
13 - 13/4
12 - 12/4
11 - 11/4
10 - 10/3
9 - 9/6/3
8 - 8/5/2
7 - 7/4/2
6 - 6/4/2
5 - 5/3/3/2
4 - 4/3/2/1
3 - 3/2/1/0/0
2 - 2/1/0/0/0
1 - 1/0/0/0/0
Post by: ddevans96 on June 24, 2010, 10:52:43 pm
Just for the record, I did some testing with Steam Machine+Adrenaline. Here are the attacks that Steam Machine makes with Adrenaline on it:Wait...so it attacks for 0 damage? How does that work?
16 - 16
15 - 15/5
14 - 14/5
13 - 13/4
12 - 12/4
11 - 11/4
10 - 10/3
9 - 9/6/3
8 - 8/5/2
7 - 7/4/2
6 - 6/4/2
5 - 5/3/3/2
4 - 4/3/2/1
3 - 3/2/1/0/0
2 - 2/1/0/0/0
1 - 1/0/0/0/0
Post by: Baily18 on June 24, 2010, 11:29:16 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on June 25, 2010, 12:00:55 am
it attacks, then attack drops due to passive ability, attack, then it drops, etc.I know that. What I'm asking is this: When a monster (Like Chrysaora) with 0 attack is on the field, it's not affected by shield effects, so it can't take damage from Fire Shield or Carapace. Is that the same for Steam Machine, or not?
Post by: Essence on June 25, 2010, 12:49:01 am
Post by: ddevans96 on June 25, 2010, 01:42:56 am
That's correct. The extra attacks are listed mostly because Infection will go off even on the zero-point attacks.Okay, thanks for clarifying.
Post by: Noobslayerkid on June 26, 2010, 06:51:14 pm
*artwork
Post by: Glitch on June 29, 2010, 06:15:17 pm
Now let's pretend steam machine was blessed, and then got three additional AP from steam. It's first attack is the first attack of a 6 AP creature, so it does 6 damage. Next it does the second attack of a 5 AP creature, or four damage. Then it does the third attack of a 4 AP creature, so it does 2 damage. Lastly, it does the fourth attack of a three AP creature, or three damage. 6 + 4 + 2 + 3 = 15 damage.
The only problem I'm having is calculating the hits per turn it gets. It can't be based upon initial AP, 4 attack creatures don't get a fourth attack, but if it's based upon current AP, 6 attack creatures should get a fourth attack...
Time to do some testing!
Post by: harakirinosaru on June 29, 2010, 06:56:42 pm
By the way, here's how steam machine works with adrenaline. If it starts with four attack power (AP), it does it's first first attack as though it was the first attack on a normal 4 AP adrenalinized creature. If you play adrenaline on a cockatrice, it's first attack is for four damage. For it's second attack, it attacks as though it were the second attack on a three AP creature. If you play adrenaline on a frog, it's second attack will be for three damage. For it's third attack, steam machine has 2 AP, and it acts as though it were the third attack of a 2 AP creature. 2 damage. For it's fourth, it's the fourth attack of a 1 AP creature. 1 damage. Then it stops, because 0 AP creatures don't have a 5th attack.I just did this with Wyrm. It's based on the attack it has in the frame where Adrenaline takes place.
Now let's pretend steam machine was blessed, and then got three additional AP from steam. It's first attack is the first attack of a 6 AP creature, so it does 6 damage. Next it does the second attack of a 5 AP creature, or four damage. Then it does the third attack of a 4 AP creature, so it does 2 damage. Lastly, it does the fourth attack of a three AP creature, or three damage. 6 + 4 + 2 + 3 = 15 damage.
The only problem I'm having is calculating the hits per turn it gets. It can't be based upon initial AP, 4 attack creatures don't get a fourth attack, but if it's based upon current AP, 6 attack creatures should get a fourth attack...
Time to do some testing!
Example: Wyrm has 10 attack after Dive (5 base). It attacks for 10 (first attack) then, when the 'turn' ends, it goes down to 5 power. Adrenaline is then forced to recalculate, because while a creature with 10 power only gets one additional attack, a creature with 5 gets 3. So Wyrm now gets three attacks. Since it already attacked once, Wyrm gets two additional attacks with it's original attack power. 4 and 3.
However, Adrenaline will still have no effect for creatures with over 15 base power as Adrenaline originally calculates the creature as only getting one attack, so after that one attack Adrenaline's instance ends and no more attacks are given, even if the attack is then reduced to below 15.
So, if we imagine a Steam Machine where you have used it's ability once and it has four attack power, Adrenaline would do it's initial calculations and conclude that Steam Machine gets three attacks. Then it would attack for 4. Then Steam Machine cools down, and Adrenaline would recalculate for that turn and find that since Steam Machine now has an attack of 3, it gets four attacks. Since it has already attacked once, that attack would be subtracted from the total and Steam Machine would get three more attacks (and the number of attacks for 3, 2, and 1 are the same) so it would attack for 3, 2, and 1 and cooldown would reduce it to 0.
Post by: Glitch on June 29, 2010, 07:02:18 pm
6 AP, 1st attack, 6 damage.
5 AP, 2nd attack, 3 damage.
4 AP, 3rd attack, 2 damage.
3 AP, 4th attack, 3 damage???
Post by: harakirinosaru on June 29, 2010, 07:06:43 pm
Right, but then why doesn't a six AP creature get four attacks?Because a 6 power creature would have 3 attacks under adrenaline, and that constraint doesn't change within the values of 6-4. Should be 6-4-2-stop and Steam Machine would have 3 power left according to the chart.
6 AP, 1st attack, 6 damage.
5 AP, 2nd attack, 3 damage.
4 AP, 3rd attack, 2 damage.
3 AP, 4th attack, 3 damage???
Post by: youtuber999 on July 02, 2010, 02:28:22 pm
Post by: Tuntor on July 05, 2010, 05:11:21 am
Post by: Dragoon1140 on July 05, 2010, 05:16:24 am
An interesting option indeed...
Post by: ddevans96 on July 05, 2010, 02:52:37 pm
Forgive the noob, but why is a Steam Machine with adrenaline losing 4 counters per turn instead of the one it is supposed to (card says per turn not per attack). Has this been adressed or is there a bug out there?It's intentional. Every time it attacks, it loses one charge, and adrenaline just gives multiple attacks. Earlier in this thread there was a table saying how it would work.
Post by: Tuntor on July 06, 2010, 02:14:28 am
thanks for pointing out where to look.
Post by: Arondight on July 06, 2010, 03:30:09 am
Just so everyone knows, Zanz himself said that if he thinks that Steam Engine is UP he will change the charges gained per turn to +5.+5 would actually be worth while without shards.. :o
An interesting option indeed...
Post by: harakirinosaru on July 06, 2010, 05:18:14 am
So I see...thank you. But on the card it says ber turn, not per attack...a bit of a confusion there.Adrenaline gives multiple turns.
thanks for pointing out where to look.
It's nice to see the work Essence, Gl1tch and I did go unnoticed. Quick, everyone just skip to the last page and don't read the middle to see if your question/topic has been addressed!
Post by: Demut on October 20, 2010, 11:49:04 pm
Post by: shinyarceus4 on November 03, 2010, 09:30:26 pm
Post by: Demut on November 03, 2010, 09:53:30 pm
Post by: Ant-n-ero on November 03, 2010, 09:54:48 pm
Not me, its perfect as it is.agreed, is 100% fine and balanced (:
Post by: nerd1 on November 03, 2010, 10:29:33 pm
Post by: nerd1 on November 03, 2010, 10:30:24 pm
Post by: Demut on November 03, 2010, 10:44:30 pm
Post by: Essence on December 17, 2010, 07:11:59 am
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd111208/Steam_Change.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
Discuss.
Post by: Kamietsu on December 17, 2010, 07:20:20 am
Post by: geekz_always_win on December 17, 2010, 07:23:14 am
This would be a nice addition to CCYB or at the least a replacement for a Destroyer.Interferes with Permafrost though
Post by: Kamietsu on December 17, 2010, 07:36:12 am
Post by: Higurashi on December 17, 2010, 12:28:54 pm
Post by: jmdt on December 17, 2010, 03:01:30 pm
Oh god, it was already powerful. This is sick.. in an awesome way.I agree. The steam machine was plenty powerful before; I beat a number of folk with steam machine based decks. Now it literally may be the strongest critter in the game. Graviton firemaster now calls for a buff.
Post by: nilsieboy on December 17, 2010, 03:24:10 pm
firemaster is cheap and can grow from mark,Oh god, it was already powerful. This is sick.. in an awesome way.I agree. The steam machine was plenty powerful before; I beat a number of folk with steam machine based decks. Now it literally may be the strongest critter in the game. Graviton firemaster now calls for a buff.
machine still loses attack and costs more fire ;)
Post by: Korugar on December 17, 2010, 05:22:07 pm
Post by: Dragoon1140 on December 17, 2010, 05:40:24 pm
Hopefully, after this needed buff, Steam Machine will see more use. Obviously we'll have to see it post-patch, but I'm not sure if, even then, it will see popular use.
Post by: icecoldbro on December 17, 2010, 05:51:21 pm
Post by: nilsieboy on December 17, 2010, 06:11:32 pm
pretty hardcore strong now, helps to buff a much needed elementwater just needs some buffs/medium creatures for unupped, there are weaker elements atm wich need more attention if you start to talk like this ;)
Post by: jmizzle7 on December 17, 2010, 07:28:26 pm
water just needs some buffs/medium creatures for unuppedI hope that's a joke. Toadfish-TRON!
Post by: Malduk on December 17, 2010, 07:40:38 pm
Steam Machine was never really that powerful before this buff, and I haven't been convinced otherwise yet. Sure, it has been thrown around in a variety of decks, most often paired with SoR, but it still was rarely used in any mainstream deck, at least when compared to Destroyer or even Forest Spirit. Skittles was the closest to using Steam Machine to its full potential, but CCYB still shined over it.This type of argument I just cant agree with.
Hopefully, after this needed buff, Steam Machine will see more use. Obviously we'll have to see it post-patch, but I'm not sure if, even then, it will see popular use.
If we're taking about growing creature for rainbow deck, Golem is obvious choice over Steam not because Steam is bad, but because of two other things: you use water quanta for stalling (arguably OP Permafrost), and Golems, being in element of extreme damage :fire , is and SHOULD be faster and more threatening than such water creature.
Way to increase its usage is to develop better synergies and combos.
When looking at usage of a creature, first awesome, but not nearly as used as awesome it is, creature that comes to mind is Flesh Recluse. One of the best creatures in the game has one place in mainstream speedbow decks IF you want to take it over Arsenic. And of course has its place in its dedicated decks (mono death, death/air etc), but you dont see it jumping from every deck around like you see Graboids or Golems, or even Frogs, just because its home element is not as attractive.
Point is, the fact that you dont see a card used everywhere doesnt warrant a buff. Same can be said for some other buffs in this patch, but whatever makes grinding easier, makes people happy. If one of those were used by FGs, I'm sure we'd see whining just like we saw when Puffers got its actually deserved buff.
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 17, 2010, 07:41:20 pm
Post by: RootRanger on December 17, 2010, 11:24:02 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on December 17, 2010, 11:30:59 pm
Post by: Ekki on December 18, 2010, 02:33:59 am
Post by: wizelsnarf on December 18, 2010, 02:37:35 am
Totally fair.
Post by: frlaa on December 18, 2010, 03:12:51 am
Post by: jmdt on December 18, 2010, 05:13:28 am
I like it. Still way weaker than Lavas. It cost 2 :fire, lavas cost 1 :earth and it loses damage slowly.I still say you guys are crazy. This monster now grows twice as fast as a golem. In a stall, steamers were already violent, now thwy will bew insane.
Totally fair.
Post by: jmizzle7 on December 18, 2010, 05:59:47 am
I guess I'm kind of in the middle here. The growth rate definitely is pretty amazing, but I wouldn't say either is better than the other. Both have the same net quantum cost-to-growth rate, Golem is faster (ttw), Steam Machine is more resilient (hp). The main difference here is to which element they belong and what kind of decks they lend themselves to.I like it. Still way weaker than Lavas. It cost 2 :fire, lavas cost 1 :earth and it loses damage slowly.I still say you guys are crazy. This monster now grows twice as fast as a golem. In a stall, steamers were already violent, now thwy will bew insane.
Totally fair.
Post by: Scaredgirl on December 18, 2010, 06:04:35 am
I like this. A lot.You know you would sound more objective if you had some other avatar :)
Post by: RootRanger on December 18, 2010, 06:59:12 am
I still say you guys are crazy. This monster now grows twice as fast as a golem. In a stall, steamers were already violent, now thwy will bew insane.It isn't guaranteed damage. If it dies to CC immediately or is lobotomized you will have done no damage. It is also harder to have many Steam Machines because they use up more quantum. It is very vulnerable to freeze and basilisk blood because it will lose 3/6 damage over the time it cannot attack. The high cost of its ability makes immortality pricey because you have to invest a decent amount of quantum in water, fire, and aether. I see your point and think that this card will be pretty strong. However, what good cards does water have besides this? Permafrost shield I guess, and purify is unique, but they have a lot of weak cards, especially unupped.
You know you would sound more objective if you had some other avatar :)Hehe...right.
Post by: Essence on December 18, 2010, 07:13:04 am
However, what good cards does water have besides this? Permafrost shield I guess, and purify is unique, but they have a lot of weak cards, especially unupped.
Toadfish is one of the best attackers in the game by (electrum) cost. Mind Flayer is a very fast loboer and can, along with Ice Bolt, totally destroy most growth-based rushbows (Graboids not included). Nymphs Tears is incredible in the right deck. Abyss Crawler is a very decent attacker. Freeze is one of the best CC cards in the game. Really, people think unupped Water is weak because of Blue Crawler and Ice Dragon, and that's about it.
Post by: nilsieboy on December 18, 2010, 07:15:46 am
spoken like a true master of water ;).However, what good cards does water have besides this? Permafrost shield I guess, and purify is unique, but they have a lot of weak cards, especially unupped.
Toadfish is one of the best attackers in the game by (electrum) cost. Mind Flayer is a very fast loboer and can, along with Ice Bolt, totally destroy most growth-based rushbows (Graboids not included). Nymphs Tears is incredible in the right deck. Abyss Crawler is a very decent attacker. Freeze is one of the best CC cards in the game. Really, people think unupped Water is weak because of Blue Crawler and Ice Dragon, and that's about it.
but i agree, water's rush is just different (no dragon spam for start like most elements have :P) and it's one of the reasons i love water
Post by: Hotshot2k4 on December 18, 2010, 07:56:06 am
Post by: LongDono on December 18, 2010, 05:46:05 pm
Also this is based off when they hit play, not from turn 1 of the game. ( lava destroyer is faster if I counted that hands down! )
New version of steam machine
Turn 1: 0 ( 6/6 )
Turn 2: 5/5 ( 10/16 )
Turn 3: 9/14 ( 14/30 )
Turn 4: 13/27 ( 18/48 )
Turn 5: 17/44 ( 22/70 )
Turn 6: 21/65 ( 26/96 )
Turn 7: 25/90 ( 30/126 )
Turn 8: 29/119
Old version of steam machine
Turn 1: 0/0 ( 6/6 )
Turn 2: 4/4 ( 9/15 )
Turn 3: 7/11 ( 12/27 )
Turn 4: 10/21 ( 15/42 )
Turn 5: 13/34 ( 18/60 )
Turn 6: 16/50 ( 21/81 )
Turn 7: 19/69 ( 24/105 )
Turn 8: 22/91
Turn 9: 25/116
Lava destroyer
Turn 1: 7/7
Turn 2: 9/16
Turn 3: 11/27
Turn 4: 13/40 ( 19/46 )
Turn 5: 15/55 ( 21/67)
Turn 6: 17/72 ( 23/90)
Turn 7: 19/91 ( 25/115 )
Turn 8: 21/112
So either one of these is able to solo kill in 9 turns or better. With a rage potion as soon as possible you solo kill in 7 turns with all of them. Rage potion was added because it has synergy with all them and I wanted more numbers.
In the first 6 or so turns lava destroyer is faster! With a rage potion as soon as possible for either cards steam machine is faster for the first 3 turns, but after that it is no longer faster.
Overall I pick Lava destroyer every time, though if you want a steam machine deck the sheer amount of CC it can have makes this buff very strong.
Post by: Cancerplus on December 18, 2010, 11:35:46 pm
Already saving up my money. :D
Post by: Marvaddin on December 19, 2010, 09:47:45 pm
Post by: Shantu on December 19, 2010, 10:45:04 pm
- They start at 0 damage.
- You have to pay 2 :fire at a time for steam, which makes it harder to keep it pumped. Yeah, you can't pay for it from your mark.
- They actually lose damage if delayed or frozen. A basilisk blood is -6 damage, for example.
- Water has no spells to increase its quanta production like Fire - because of this, Steam Machine decks will always be slower than Lava Golem decks. Steam Machines are also duo creatures, which slows the deck even more with bad draws.
So yes. Steam Machines needed the love. :)
Post by: RootRanger on December 20, 2010, 03:50:38 am
I hate this buff. +5 atk for 2 quanta, and with 15 HP? Cmon, Golem at least need to be protected or die instantly. This is simply too powerful. At least reduce HP to 9 or 10.+4 attack, starts at 0 damage, and loses attack to freeze and time bubbles.
If they have an enternity or lobotomizer you will do no or little damage.
Post by: Ekki on December 20, 2010, 03:56:20 am
+4 attack, starts at 0 damage, and loses attack to freeze and time bubbles.
If they have an enternity or lobotomizer you will do no or little damage.
But it's true freeze and time bubbles kill them, so they aren't OP, but they didn't need a buff IMO :(
Off-topic, epic 500th post FTW!
Post by: DSSCRA on December 20, 2010, 04:30:23 am
You get +5 every time you use its ability but you still lose one charge per turn so it ends up being more like +4.+4 attack, starts at 0 damage, and loses attack to freeze and time bubbles.Actually it's +5 atk now (the thread is about that) *fail*
If they have an enternity or lobotomizer you will do no or little damage.
But it's true freeze and time bubbles kill them, so they aren't OP, but they didn't need a buff IMO :(
Off-topic, epic 500th post FTW!
Post by: Ekki on December 20, 2010, 04:43:56 am
You get +5 every time you use its ability but you still lose one charge per turn so it ends up being more like +4.Yeah, but it's still +5 damage...
Losing 1 charge each turn is another mechanic, and in the turn it get the attack boost it deals 5 damage.
Post by: RootRanger on December 20, 2010, 04:48:12 am
After two boosts you deal 9 damage (+4.5 per turn).
After three boosts you deal 13 damage (+4.33 per turn).
So as long as this survives to boost three turns (no problem) it is closer to +4. The only time it is +5 is if it only boosts once (rarely).
Post by: Ekki on December 20, 2010, 04:55:43 am
After one boost you deal 5 damage (+5 per turn).huh, I get your point now :D It's like the media it grows...
After two boosts you deal 9 damage (+4.5 per turn).
After three boosts you deal 13 damage (+4.33 per turn).
So as long as this survives to boost three turns (no problem) it is closer to +4. The only time it is +5 is if it only boosts once (rarely).
You must take in account both the fact that you think up to turn 5, since it's when the original growth gets to 0, and also the fact that if you can fuel it it'll grow always a bit more than +4... Well, you were right :P
*goes to edit the last post*
Post by: Marvaddin on December 20, 2010, 05:25:02 pm
This buff is well-deserved, and here are the reasons:Oh, yeah. So Steam Machine is weaker than Golem when the opponent has Procrastination, Arctic Squid, Congeal... Who's weaker when the opponent has Fire Shield, Thorn Carapace, Drain Life, Shockwave, Bolts, etc, etc, etc?
- They start at 0 damage.
- You have to pay 2 :fire at a time for steam, which makes it harder to keep it pumped. Yeah, you can't pay for it from your mark.
- They actually lose damage if delayed or frozen. A basilisk blood is -6 damage, for example.
- Water has no spells to increase its quanta production like Fire - because of this, Steam Machine decks will always be slower than Lava Golem decks. Steam Machines are also duo creatures, which slows the deck even more with bad draws.
So yes. Steam Machines needed the love. :)
If you consider that against a serious opponent (not AI3, for example), you will need Quint your Golem, its worse than being a duo creature, its a 2 card combo you need. With 15 health, otherwise, most opponents cant handle a single Machine quick enough. If comes a 2nd one, probable quit.
The Golem is surely quicker option to fight weak opponents, but in a direct fight, Machines have a chance because of Water stall arsenal, Permafrost, Congeal, Ice Bolt.
So, if Machines are a bit slower, make them a bit stronger. HP 1 x HP 15 doesnt seem fair. Isnt 9 a good amount of HP?
Post by: Daytripper on December 22, 2010, 05:40:28 pm
The nice thing is the steamie has 15 HP. You can risk it unquinted in some cases. Also a regular golem cannot be played without buff if opponent has fire buckler.
The steamie is a win. Even if it is near alone it can deplete someone's healing as soon as it reaches 40+ damage, even without buffs. A golem takes way longer to get there. In this regard the steamie is better.
Post by: LongDono on December 22, 2010, 08:06:35 pm
Also Lava destroyer > steam machine in general.
Lava Golem can be brought out faster and is just faster for the first 6 turns.
I am not saying steam machine sucks but anyone that says this buff is too much should just play unupped or upped steam machine decks in PvP. It can be fun and even really good but it is not OP.
On another note you can play lots of fun and cheap CC with steam machine. :) TTW unupped so far with the deck I am playing in PvP1 is between 9.5and 10.5 somewhere. So it has some speed, and with a few rage pots and ice spells you can slow faster decks down enough to beat them down before you are beaten down. the way I play it kindof reminds me of my double golem deck. You have to know when to rage potion and what to rage potion...... I want to play double golem now....
Post by: silux on January 12, 2011, 09:34:15 pm
Yes i'm one of these ;)
The +5|+0 initial boost can be calculated as the machine enters in play as a 1|15 and it doesn't damage the first turn(no need to calculate a complex succession with periodic numbers).
The only creature that grows as faster than it is the :fire firefly queen;both they create +4 damage per turn and they also work well together!
Momentum could be very nice on it!
Post by: Ekki on January 12, 2011, 10:15:46 pm
Momentum could be very nice on it!Are you asking for more buffs? Or it's just a suggestion for a deck? I got messed up :-\
Post by: LongDono on January 12, 2011, 10:49:59 pm
I think he means that if you play momentum on it.... I think...Momentum could be very nice on it!Are you asking for more buffs? Or it's just a suggestion for a deck? I got messed up :-\
I like rage potion plus steam machine personaly.
Post by: Levgre on January 24, 2011, 03:03:33 am
Post by: Hyroen on February 09, 2012, 06:47:09 am
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/true-story-neil-patrick-harris.png)
Post by: RavingRabbid on March 04, 2012, 09:40:01 am
Ketelbinkie Empire | ScrewJack EmpireI don't get it.
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/true-story-neil-patrick-harris.png)
Post by: Dusk Plays on March 24, 2014, 03:02:57 am
Post by: dawn to dusk on March 24, 2014, 05:54:02 am
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on May 19, 2014, 04:20:37 pm
Most overpowered card ever in my opinion. >:(
Overpowered? A card that needs two different Quanta to work? Not to mention that its skill needs 2 Quanta to activate.
I have used this card, and it's not as overpowered as you think. As for now, I've stopped using this card.