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War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282321#msg1282321
« on: November 13, 2018, 08:14:13 PM »
War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback



Please post suggestions and feedback regarding War #11 in this thread for War #12's benefit.
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Offline Mr Muffin

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282803#msg1282803
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 06:28:41 PM »
With the ever decreasing number of war applicants, when war 13 comes we could try having two elements per team.

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282805#msg1282805
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 06:55:15 PM »
With the ever decreasing number of war applicants, when war 13 comes we could try having two elements per team.

I'm all for this, but there are a couple of questions that show up.

What would the new deck building rules be? Vault building? How could we group up teams without giving an unfair advantage? We can't do opposing elements since that would probably give an unfair advantage towards Discohole and Vader Sader. How would Generals be arranged?
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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282807#msg1282807
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 06:58:17 PM »
What if all the elements lived together in harmony after War 12?

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UNTIL THE :fire NATION ATTACKED, almost wiping out air completely and forcing everyone else to choose a side. This results in a massive war between two teams with elements divided among the two sides and battles chosen carefully, sometimes small scale and local but sometimes large scale and involving more than just two elements. And then :fire gets some sort of bonus for being the aggressive attacker with the element of the surprise but the current Grandmaster joins the other side and gets special abilities. Just a thought.
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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282822#msg1282822
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 12:05:28 AM »
How could we group up teams without giving an unfair advantage?

Two methods:
-weigh all time War standings with an exponential recency bias and pair teams 1-12, 2-11, 3-10, 4-9, 5-8, 6-7
-pair teams within their quadrants, but not their opposites - ex: :water :earth:air :fire:death :light:life :darkness:aether :entropy:gravity :time

Quote
What would the new deck building rules be? Vault building?

Decks must be 50% of either element. Vaults must start as X% (unsure - probably 60% or 70%) of both elements.

Quote
How would Generals be arranged?

Work out how elements are to be paired before Trials. After Trials, in pairs with one Master, simply give that Master the Generalship. In pairs with two Masters, allow one of them to willingly concede the Generalship to the other, or if neither wants to, have them battle for it with a ruleset that encourages strong knowledge of both elements. In pairs with no Masters, have Council or WMs appoint a General as done traditionally.
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282824#msg1282824
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2018, 12:31:41 AM »

-weigh all time War standings with an exponential recency bias and pair teams 1-12, 2-11, 3-10, 4-9, 5-8, 6-7
with recency being the mere tiebreaker that would translate to  :life :aether:light :air:entropy :water:fire  :gravity:earth :time:darkness :death

I like that light gets access to really good rushes with air, entropy wont abuse sop as much as water would with some other teams (though all current sop decks are available anyway), fire gravity seems fine, a traditionally strong and a traditionally weak one.
earth time screams graboid abuse, otherwise should be fine (also it kinda heavily leans on nymphs for its full power unfortunately).
darkness and death have some brutal monos that will be hard to counter at once and heavily encourages use of holy light just for that one team.
life aether sounds dangerous. life provides cheap reasonable cards while aether brings a combination of cards to the table that will largely limit the choices of their opponents. also ironically doesnt help much vs sofree.

maybe regrouping the latter to  :darkness :earth:life  :time (hehe, a pun),  :death :aether would work nicer on how balanced those groups feel to me personally, at that point we are kind of delving into arbitrary decisions though.
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Online mathman101Topic starter

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282830#msg1282830
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2018, 02:28:51 AM »
With the ever decreasing number of war applicants, when war 13 comes we could try having two elements per team.

This is actually something WMs have been discussing the last 2-3 weeks as a back-up idea in case there are not enough applications for at least 3-man teams. We do feel this is quite a bit different from the original style of war, but we feel that if it is absolutely needed due to the low participants that it may be worth trying.


How could we group up teams without giving an unfair advantage?

Two methods:
-weigh all time War standings with an exponential recency bias and pair teams 1-12, 2-11, 3-10, 4-9, 5-8, 6-7
-pair teams within their quadrants, but not their opposites - ex: :water :earth:air :fire:death :light:life :darkness:aether :entropy:gravity :time

Quote
What would the new deck building rules be? Vault building?

Decks must be 50% of either element. Vaults must start as X% (unsure - probably 60% or 70%) of both elements.

Quote
How would Generals be arranged?

Work out how elements are to be paired before Trials. After Trials, in pairs with one Master, simply give that Master the Generalship. In pairs with two Masters, allow one of them to willingly concede the Generalship to the other, or if neither wants to, have them battle for it with a ruleset that encourages strong knowledge of both elements. In pairs with no Masters, have Council or WMs appoint a General as done traditionally.

These are actually similar to what we have discussed and balanced, some of them have slight differences but overall the ideas are mostly the same.
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Offline Manuel

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282842#msg1282842
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2018, 11:17:37 AM »
at this point isn't more easier do 4 teams of 3 elements, 5 matches/round? half of the applicants doesn't have time/will, if they wanna join war they can always be the first sub/something and stay out if not needed

Offline Kalinuial

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282844#msg1282844
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2018, 01:15:58 PM »
I am open to teams concept,but prefer it for next instance of war. Strongly prefer this war to be single element teams. Would like to see a two week extension to application period first. This also gives wms time to flesh out teams concept if extension fails to get min. application.

Most academic terms are ending early to mid December, right? Perhaps we will find more students joining on their breaks.

Offline Wyand

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282845#msg1282845
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2018, 01:32:28 PM »
To put it simply: +1. Changing things in last minute doesn't sound wise.
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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282846#msg1282846
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2018, 01:55:43 PM »
Kal and Wyand, you have never experienced war. Even 3 man teams sound so vile i am considering removing my app. 4 is bare minimum for a fun war imo
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Offline Wyand

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Re: War #12 - Suggestions and Feedback http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66456.msg1282847#msg1282847
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2018, 02:16:20 PM »
You are right, we have no War experience at all. That's why we would prefer a war with all Elements.
Having the number of teams halved... I feel like the fun would be halved both ways (3man teams / only 6 teams).
Having these 2 options I prefer the first.

(Btw, I don't know why is it a great surprise... looking at participants of tourneys and other PvP events this year...
Gathering 24 players for 3-man teams is quite good.)
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