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Elements the Game => War => Events and Competitions => War Archive => Topic started by: mathman101 on December 24, 2018, 11:31:20 pm

Title: War #12 - Standings
Post by: mathman101 on December 24, 2018, 11:31:20 pm

War #12 - Standings

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vReRtqHdSFOAqkkj4_0ZMmJr-NArz9bszaeQkrf1Bw14PPOq9E7mFx3-xUySj1KkTJCut2G4wHJZEYp/pubhtml?gid=2117151740&single=true



War #12 Kakerstats

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i7gpfIwNBEm17AOgcT7dj3yUDslQjuZnQ3HfffyEGuE/edit#gid=3630884
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Zawadx on December 25, 2018, 02:56:51 pm
Everyone's at 0 end war nao
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Wyand on December 25, 2018, 05:17:39 pm
We will hold the 1st position at least for 2 weeks. :D
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on December 25, 2018, 06:00:01 pm
Everyone's at 0 end war nao
Looks like Team Underworld finally won.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: shockcannon on December 25, 2018, 11:38:09 pm
Enjoy it while it lasts Wyand. It won't last long.   ;)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Wyand on December 26, 2018, 12:18:26 am
Still more than nothing. :D
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on December 26, 2018, 09:56:17 am
We will hold the 1st position at least for 2 weeks. :D


Yes, but after that period expires, team :light will hold the first position for round 1! :P
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Wyand on December 26, 2018, 10:56:59 am
We will hold the 1st position at least for 2 weeks. :D


Yes, but after that period expires, team :light will hold the first position for round 1! :P

I thought your prophecy is about team :light holding the first position in the last round. :)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: dawn to dusk on December 26, 2018, 10:58:26 am
We will hold the 1st position at least for 2 weeks. :D


Yes, but after that period expires, team :light will hold the first position for round 1! :P

I thought your prophecy is about team :light holding the first position in the last round. :)
We can hold it in all rounds, it's ok I'm not picky
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: worldwideweb3 on December 26, 2018, 12:41:00 pm
We will hold the 1st position at least for 2 weeks. :D


Yes, but after that period expires, team :light will hold the first position for round 1! :P

Just shows that they got the cheapest cards and market is biased towards them *riots*
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: shockcannon on December 26, 2018, 02:04:19 pm
You guys can complain about market all you want but the recipe for success is there for everyone. Just stock up on 9 copies of dusk and then farm darkness for even more copies. You may say that only works 50% of the time but we all know the real percentage is 100, just like dusk.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on December 26, 2018, 04:33:07 pm
I thought your prophecy is about team :light holding the first position in the last round. :)

No, I said :light will have most of its wins during round 7 (that means that if we lose 0-5 every round but we get 1-5 during round 7, the prophecy will be fulfilled), the 1st place is not needed for the prophecy to be proven at all (but it will still be really helpful). :P

Quote
...that means one (or more) of the following:

* Team :light will have the largest vault of every other team during round 7 of War (thus being in 1st place).
* Team :light will have the most of its wins during round 7 of War (that possibly means a 4 out of 4 wins or something similar).
* Team :light will have its largest vault during round 7 of War (very unlikely; this means it must have a vault larger than its starting vault).
* Team :light will have won War in round 7.



EDIT: This www3's comment may help Wyand and others to better understand my prophecy:

Inb4 light wins only one match during whole of war, and that’s in r7

 In other words, I want Light to win War but it is not mandatory for the prophecy to come true...
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Wyand on December 26, 2018, 05:46:10 pm
I thought your prophecy is about team :light holding the first position in the last round. :)

No, I said :light will have most of its wins during round 7 (that means that if we lose 0-5 every round but we get 1-5 during round 7, the prophecy will be fulfilled), the 1st place is not needed for the prophecy to be proven at all (but it will still be really helpful). :P

Quote
...that means one (or more) of the following:

* Team :light will have the largest vault of every other team during round 7 of War (thus being in 1st place).
* Team :light will have the most of its wins during round 7 of War (that possibly means a 4 out of 4 wins or something similar).
* Team :light will have its largest vault during round 7 of War (very unlikely; this means it must have a vault larger than its starting vault).
* Team :light will have won War in round 7.



EDIT: This www3's comment may help Wyand and others to better understand my prophecy:

Inb4 light wins only one match during whole of war, and that’s in r7

 In other words, I want Light to win War but it is not mandatory for the prophecy to come true...

Ah alright, I just vaguely remembered that Light will prevail somehow, didn't remember the prophecy as a whole, r7 things etc.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on January 07, 2019, 09:07:43 am
Time's vault omg
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: iancudorinmarian on January 07, 2019, 02:19:12 pm
Time's vault omg
The bigger they are, the harder they fall. That seemed to be the trend for light, at least :sillyspin:
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: kaempfer13 on January 07, 2019, 05:00:21 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/ptP3dX4.jpg)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: deuce22 on January 08, 2019, 12:25:58 am
Time's vault omg

 :o
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Blacksmith on January 08, 2019, 12:48:02 am
I still remember war 7#, we had 240 cards in starting vault ( being average ) and that included pillar+pends, we also had 6 matches a round. :time probably has the biggest staring vault in history or ever in war. Will be interesting to see how they do war with skeleton+rt decks, cats and daggers.

I kind of wonder if air packed any sofree?

Say whatever you want about the market, but it gives diversity to team size.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: deuce22 on January 08, 2019, 12:52:07 am
I still remember war 7#, we had 240 cards in starting vault ( being average ) and that included pillar+pends, we also had 6 matches a round. :time probably has the biggest staring vault in history or ever in war. Will be interesting to see how they do war with skeleton+rt decks, cats and daggers.

I kind of wonder if air packed any sofree?

Say whatever you want about the blind auction, but it gives diversity to team size.

fixed
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Vangelios on January 08, 2019, 01:28:40 am
 Since of war 9 when the market was add I always try to explain to my team mates the importance of folders cards (cheap cards to discard of the vault when lose) but the most people prefer discard expensive cards then ok... I'll be very surprised when someone discovery the importance of send one suicid deck against some strong opponents sometimes...
 But anyway 509 cards is really very more than I figured
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Vangelios on January 08, 2019, 01:43:48 am
I still remember war 7#, we had 240 cards in starting vault ( being average ) and that included pillar+pends, we also had 6 matches a round. :time probably has the biggest staring vault in history or ever in war. Will be interesting to see how they do war with skeleton+rt decks, cats and daggers.

I kind of wonder if air packed any sofree?

Say whatever you want about the blind auction, but it gives diversity to team size.

fixed

Hummn The auction is blind but I think still more blind the guy who overpriced the team unnecessary (nothing against you Manu but... seriously air team was absurdly overpriced...) anyway GL and HF to you
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on January 08, 2019, 05:19:05 am
Hummn The auction is blind but I think still more blind the guy who overpriced the team unnecessary

He's not talking about you, Weeby...
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Manuel on January 08, 2019, 09:54:32 am
if wm was too lazy to edit a rule isn't my fault, how much we waited and how much feedback we gave under any aspect? it takes 30 seconds to modify a rule

i don't even talk about not being able to use the discount on sopa and sofree, saving 90 over 2700 for 6 sofrees totally breaks the war, being able to start war with a 500 cards vault is ok
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Manuel on January 08, 2019, 10:09:47 am
wait i forgot the part where if u wasn't able to buy enough players u was going to be fully charged for the max cost of the player

blind auction = u have no idea on what other people are doing
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Blacksmith on January 08, 2019, 01:21:54 pm
if wm was too lazy to edit a rule isn't my fault, how much we waited and how much feedback we gave under any aspect? it takes 30 seconds to modify a ruleWhich rule?

i don't even talk about not being able to use the discount on sopa and sofree, saving 90 over 2700 for 6 sofrees totally breaks the war, being able to start war with a 500 cards vault is okI don't see any problems here?
wait i forgot the part where if u wasn't able to buy enough players u was going to be fully charged for the max cost of the playerThat was a harsh rule, but easy to avoid

blind auction = u have no idea on what other people are doing

Now for interesting stuff:

Average card cost each team,

 :gravity 106 you didn't pack any sofo did you?
 :aether 104
 :death 103
 :fire 100
 :air 95  lower than expected
 :life 94
 :darkness 85
 :water 89
 :earth 83
 :entropy 86
 :light 76  you had the biggest vault yet you go super cheap
 :time 57  how much fodder did you pack?
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Manuel on January 08, 2019, 01:48:29 pm
Which rule?

last year total cap for ALL players was 6000
this year was 7500 for a single player

for balancing it even more, flexible team size + punishment if u can't buy enough players

I don't see any problems here?

there is no logic, u can't use the discount on sofree and sopa for no reason, u only save 90 for a full set of sofree, it's like if the discount before was based on %, then changed into the actual system
is a very small thing but show how everything is approximative and full of holes
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Blacksmith on January 08, 2019, 03:16:49 pm
Which rule?

last year total cap for ALL players was 6000
this year was 7500 for a single player

for balancing it even more, flexible team size + punishment if u can't buy enough players

I don't see any problems here?

there is no logic, u can't use the discount on sofree and sopa for no reason, u only save 90 for a full set of sofree, it's like if the discount before was based on %, then changed into the actual system
is a very small thing but show how everything is approximative and full of holes
The year before that the max was 2K which was way to low. 6K is still a bit low imo. Around 10K is decent.

Discard is around 24 cards mid war. Average vault card cost around 90. Since people dump their cheaper stuff lets say the average discard card costs 55 points.
Salvage is 6 a round. And average salvaged card cost is probably around 110.
This means the net difference between a win and a loss mid war is about 2000 points.

So if you have player X costing 1000 points and Deuce costing 5000 points. In order for Deuce to break even he needs to produce two more wins than player x would. A strong player will probably win you at least one win a round on average.

Then you have to take into account the number of losses you will have due to a less versatile vault ( which is different depending on the element ). Less important for elements like :aether and :air and more important for elements like :earth and :water. There's a reason why :aether has won even when they had the smallest vault.

Considering the huge vaults we have today I find a cap at around 10K to be decent.

Sofree and Sop are op, especially Sofree. I am all for restricting them. A deck cap would have been the best way imo. Restricting sofree to 3-4 a deck would make a big difference. I'm not really happy with only a market restriction, which pushes up the price of sofree extremely.

I still think :air will do extremely well this war. Which proves my point. If they don't I may change my opinion.

The main problem is that the elements themselves are unbalanced which is super hard to fix. Putting up a perfectly balanced system that isn't to complex is probably impossible.

When determining success in war:
42.5% element
27.5% team
17.5% vault size
12.5% rng
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Vangelios on January 09, 2019, 02:56:25 am
When determining success in war:
42.5% element
27.5% team
17.5% vault size
12.5% rng
I don't know where you get those numbers and what the criteria are. but since the winner of the last war I can't agree with that

First yes, depends of your element, if strong can be 50% if weak 25%)
One team is the quality of the vault, predictions and new powerful decks and innovations at all.
RNG is "what will be the EC card, wins no hard counters matches (50/50, 30/60) what are your opponents each rounds and if your opponents are doing good or bad in the war.
All are very important but one team is the main and the more important, more than the element itself
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on January 18, 2019, 09:50:28 am
Standings broken?
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: iancudorinmarian on January 18, 2019, 12:28:27 pm
Standings broken?
Still not as broken as SoFr and SoP
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Kalinuial on January 24, 2019, 07:49:29 pm
@ WMS - may we expect an update to standings with R2 results soon?
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Wyand on January 24, 2019, 10:14:47 pm
I kinda remember it was updated about 10-11 hours earlier, it got reversed, or what?
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Kalinuial on January 25, 2019, 05:21:09 pm
If you look at standings and it shows results only through R1, keep refreshing.  It will eventually show R2 results.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: dawn to dusk on February 06, 2019, 07:46:29 am
Kakerstats has been updated to R4
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: worldwideweb3 on February 16, 2019, 06:27:09 pm
relic count doesnt match the relics teams acc have.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: worldwideweb3 on February 23, 2019, 10:57:03 pm
Thanks for keeping these updated!
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Wyand on March 06, 2019, 07:32:45 pm
I love updates, that's why I'd like to see the current standings. :)

(No lashing, WMs are doing a great job, just can't hold back my curious and talky twin no more.)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: worldwideweb3 on March 16, 2019, 10:14:12 pm
Standings say we have 180, but docs say vault limit is 178. Can they be fixed for all teams? (Extension plox)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on March 16, 2019, 10:54:29 pm
Just looking at the :gravity 2-14 record and wondered if anyone has enough previous stats to now if any team in war history has a worse w/l record? I expect at some point a 0% WR exists, just interested to know.

(genuinely not a diss, just interested in stats)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Aves on March 17, 2019, 01:07:42 am
Just looking at the :gravity 2-14 record and wondered if anyone has enough previous stats to now if any team in war history has a worse w/l record? I expect at some point a 0% WR exists, just interested to know.

(genuinely not a diss, just interested in stats)

http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/War#Stats.2C_Rosters_and_Winners  :D
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: andretimpa on March 17, 2019, 01:44:06 am
Just looking at the :gravity 2-14 record and wondered if anyone has enough previous stats to now if any team in war history has a worse w/l record? I expect at some point a 0% WR exists, just interested to know.

(genuinely not a diss, just interested in stats)

http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/War#Stats.2C_Rosters_and_Winners  :D

TL;DR :life went 1-11 in War 1. Gravity's 2-14 is the 2nd worse winrate ever.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on March 17, 2019, 01:46:41 am
Just looking at the :gravity 2-14 record and wondered if anyone has enough previous stats to now if any team in war history has a worse w/l record? I expect at some point a 0% WR exists, just interested to know.

(genuinely not a diss, just interested in stats)

http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/War#Stats.2C_Rosters_and_Winners  :D

TL;DR :life went 1-11 in War 1. Gravity's 2-14 is the 2nd worse winrate ever.
DANGIT! Beaten by Life
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: immortal feud on March 17, 2019, 04:31:00 am
what about best winrate?
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Linkcat on March 17, 2019, 04:49:57 am
War 9 :darkness has the highest winrate at 56/18.

At the time it was argued that War 2 :entropy was more impressive with 60/21, as the matches were best of 3 during that War.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Wyand on March 20, 2019, 09:48:49 am
Thx for the quick update, don't forget updating Relics, too! :)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: immortal feud on March 20, 2019, 11:28:00 am
woot we got 3rd place back
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: Higurashi on March 25, 2019, 02:20:17 pm
Just looking at the :gravity 2-14 record and wondered if anyone has enough previous stats to now if any team in war history has a worse w/l record? I expect at some point a 0% WR exists, just interested to know.

(genuinely not a diss, just interested in stats)

http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/War#Stats.2C_Rosters_and_Winners  :D

TL;DR :life went 1-11 in War 1. Gravity's 2-14 is the 2nd worse winrate ever.
DANGIT! Beaten by Life
To be fair, most teams had no known way to deal with or even endure against the meta decks that the top three teams got for free in War 1 and War 2. It's also impossible to leave War as early as Life did then, which leaves less up to variance. Different worlds require different comparisons; you can't really compare War 3 with War 10 either for instance: too big of a difference in available upgrades. Or War 4 where people were cut off early in favour of the round robin.
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: serprex on March 25, 2019, 02:33:17 pm
To be fair Gravity was pretty close to 1-15 or 1-14 if we didn't derp & sent 3 steals instead of 3 siphons (or if ian had slightly better RNG)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: RootRanger on March 25, 2019, 04:41:51 pm
what about best winrate?
Was actually looking into this a few weeks ago, figured I'd share. Linkcat's analysis is correct but here's the rest of the historical Top 10. Interesting how there are a lot of teams from both the early wars and the more recent ones.

(https://i.imgur.com/hMuaMqW.png)
Title: Re: War #12 - Standings
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on March 27, 2019, 02:28:19 am
And the king has fallen, only to be replaced by a tyrant.
blarg: