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Elements the Game => War => Events and Competitions => War Archive => Topic started by: mathman101 on November 13, 2018, 08:57:26 pm

Title: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on November 13, 2018, 08:57:26 pm
What is War? (#post_whatwar) | How do I join War? (#post_join)
1. Building an Army (#post_on) | 2. Preparation (#post_two) | 3. Rounds (#post_three) | 4. Postbattle (#post_four) | 5. Penalties (#post_five)

If you have read this for previous wars and would like a quick list of what has changed, check out the Changelog (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war/war-12-rules/msg1282329/#msg1282329)






WAR


Sixty Players, Twelve Elements. One victorious team.
Who will rise to the top?


Prolly the WMs





What is War?

War is the largest event held on the forums, and the core of the Forum Major Event Cycle. At the start of War, 12 Generals, one for each element, choose a team of four soldiers in an exciting auction. Then these teams of five build a vault of cards - the lifeblood of the team for the rest of war. In this conflict of limited resources, teams will face off using decks built from whatever they have within their vaults. Victors will salvage scraps off their opponents, and the defeated will have to discard some of the cards they hold dear. Each round, Event Cards will appear to alter the usual flow and add new layers of strategy. Teams will recover relics from past wars, which provide useful upgrades and hint at awesome power. And as battles and attrition start demanding their toll, teams will run out of cards in vault and begin to fall. One by one, eleven teams will be defeated. The last one standing will be the victor of War #11, and their element's banner will reign supreme over the forums.

At least, until the next War begins...




How do I join War?

Applying for war is a very easy process. At the very start of any war, War Auctions (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war-auction/) will be open for posting applications. Please read the Player Auction (http://nup) section for more details. An example application will be posted for your convenience. Make sure you honestly present yourself, your skills and your enthusiasm in your application. Generals are not against bidding on new players, but they really appreciate players with enthusiasm to perform well in war. Since you will be required to use some amount from 7 to 12 upgrades for your deck each round, it is recommended that you either have sufficiently many upgraded cards or a grinder capable of farming the electrum for you each week (and the motivation to grind). And above all, you must be willing to learn from the cool people on your team, and be ready to have fun!

If draft is over but you still would love to be a part of war, there's still a chance! PM the Warmasters your application in order to be considered when a substitute is required.

What follows are the rules describing every aspect of War. Both newer players and old veterans are advised to read it carefully, so that you are familiar with the workings of this intricate event:




1. BUILDING AN ARMY

1.1. GENERALS
War will have 12 Generals, one for each Element. Masters are the Generals of their Element by default. If a Master is unable to join War as General, he or she will appoint a replacement General (Sr. Member or above). If a Master does not appoint a General, one will be picked by the Council. Generals start with 32,000 points, which will be used for building their team and their vault.

Masters may still participate as a soldier if they can't commit to generalship.

 

1.2 PLAYER DRAFT
Players wanting to join War must start their own War application topic in the War Auction board (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war-auction) where they should include relevant information. Players may ban up to 3 elements from bidding on them. However, each ban increases the minimum bid for that player by 50 points. Players must include their in game name. All war matches must be played by them through that same in game name.

Players may also select any number of favorite elements. Favorite elements will be used as a tie-breaker during the draft. Not listing all non-banned elements may subject the player to a cointoss in case of a tie.

Both banned and favorite elements cannot change once bidding starts.

There are no guarantees you will be drafted by who you want. Drafted players who refuse to participate will be removed from the event & banned from next War.

The draft will occur over the course of one(1) 48 hour round.

During the round, generals have 48 hours in which they must submit a list of players that they want to bid on via private message to the Warmasters, additionally Generals will note how many players they would like for their team if there would be a number of players not divisible by twelve(12). Generals may bid on as few or as many players they see fit to give them the best chance of gaining the players they want. The minimum bid for each player is 20 points Draft order for a round is determined by bid size. Proceeding in decreasing order of bids, each general gets the highest ranked individual on their list who is still available. The team with the highest bid gets their top choice. The team with the 2nd highest bid gets the next pick (this could be any of the 12 teams, even the team who won the 1st player). This continues until all the teams have filled their rosters. with the lowest bid gets their highest ranked player that is still available (not necessarily their last choice). Each round is repeated as such until teams are filled.

A general cannot rank list players who:

The maximum bid is as follows for each round: 7500 points

Keep in mind that if a bid is submitted that is lower than the minimum cost of a player in the rank list, that player cannot be drafted and the next legally listed player will be drafted.

General A bids 20 points
Rank list:
1. Player A - banned aether (minimum bid is 70)
2. Player B - no bans (minimum bid is 20)
3. Player C - no bans
etc.

Assuming both Player B and C are still available, Player B will be drafted to General A's team

If a tie occurs where 2 or more generals bid the same amount and have the same highest remaining ranked player, the tie is broken based on the players favorite elements. If a player does not have enough favorite elements listed to determine team placement, then the player will be randomized to a team by WMs.

If a team fails to draft enough players for whatever reason, then they will be charged the maximum bid for the round and select one of the remaining players prior to the start of the next round. (To prevent this, Generals are encouraged to make sure they submit a full list of 12 players and make sure their bid is high enough for each player)


2. PREPARATION

2.1. SECRET FORUM SECTION
Each team has a hidden subboard visible only to its members, Warmasters and non-participating Administrators. All discussions held here MUST be kept secret. A player caught telling team secrets to anyone outside their own team will face consequences decided on a case-by-case basis, possibly including being permanently banned from all Elements community PvP Events. Please don't publicly talk about anything that goes on in these boards.

Your secret forum section will contain a "Round Boosts and Rosters" thread. Each round, post the boosts assigned to each soldier in this thread. Also, when your team's matches per round falls below five, you may post the players who will be playing next round in advance in this thread (note that general must play every round).
 
2.2. MEMBER ROLES
1. General: Responsible for coordinating the team. If a team member is unable to duel, the General should arrange a substitute.
2. Soldiers: The rest of your team. The soldiers will be able to consume certain boosts (described later in this post.)

Mechanically, only the General's role is fixed for a particular person.

2.3. THE VAULT
The Vault is your heart in War. Not only does it supply cards for deckbuilding, but acts as "hit points" for the team. If a team falls below 50 cards, they will be eliminated. These cards do not include pillars/pendulums/mark cards.

The leftover points after subtracting Auction costs from the initial amount of 32,000 will be used to buy cards to form the team starting Vault. Market prices for cards can be found here. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1n7yTJ1Ip1DrpsfaaJINcAQzLKvfPXJRDqIleiJfen6I/edit#gid=114453631) You have an infinite supply of pillars/pendulums/mark cards, which do not need to be purchased from the market.
 
Vault building rules:
- at least 50% of cards in the Vault must be in your Element.
- maximum of 24 per card from your Element   
- maximum of 9 per card from other Elements
- you may not have Relics, Pillars, Pendulums or Marks in your Vault.
 
Cards in the Vault are always unupgraded. During deckbuilding, unupgraded cards may be taken from the Vault, and transformed into upgraded cards for that deck, up to the limits mentioned below. If you move an upgraded card back to the Vault, it becomes unupgraded.

Vault does not need to stick to the first 3 vault-building rules from Round 1 onward.

Important! Vaults are virtual. Players are not given cards taken from the Vault, nor are any cards removed from their account if they lose. Players must own the cards on their Elements game account in order to use them. If a player doesn't have a specific card in their account, they cannot use it, even if that card is listed in the Vault. Try to pick cards that your teammates are able to access.


2.3.1. Vault Discounts

Vault discounts may be chosen from one of the three discount groups available. Each group applies a different amount of  discount and affects different cards that can be bought from the market. The discount choice must be made in the first week of vault building. This choice is made by posting in your secret section in a response to the vault building topic created by the WMs, or by PM if your secret section is not yet secret.

Biologist - All Creatures cost 10 less points
Engineer - All Permanents cost 15 less points
Doctor - All Spells cost 5 less points

NOTE: Shards and cards costing below 45 are not included in these bucket groups, and do not have a discount applied to them!

3. STARTING A ROUND

War consists of multiple rounds. Each round lasts one week, and will consist of two phases: Deckbuilding (4 days) and Dueling (3 days.)

3.1. DETERMINING OPPONENTS
The number of cards in the Vault determine how many players from each team participates in a round:

0-49 cards=team is eliminated
50-74 cards=2 players fight
75-99 cards=3 players fight
100+ cards=4 players fight

Opponents will be determined randomly by Warmasters, with the constraints that, if possible, no team will play another team more than once within a given round and no team will face more than two generals in a given round. If there are an uneven number of players fighting during a round, the team which has to field the largest number of players will have a bye, meaning one player in that team will skip the round. If there is more than one team which must field that number of players, then the bye will go to the team which has had the fewest byes so far out of those teams. If there is a tie for the team which has had the fewest number of byes, it will go to the team with the most cards out of those teams.

Duel pairings will be made public by Warmasters. Event Cards designed by Warmasters will be included, which will have a global effect upon all teams during that round.

Every three rounds, Warmasters will include a Super Event Card which will have a effect across three rounds. This will open up mechanics which can encompass multiple rounds.

In rounds 2 and 5, teams are intentionally seeded against teams they did not play in the previous round. In round 3 and 6 teams will be intentionally seeded against the three teams they did not play in round 1 and 2.


3.2. DECKBUILDING
Teams must build a deck for each player fighting during the round. Each Soldier is able to use one boost per round. The boost used must be different than any boost used by another Soldier in the team. These boosts must be submitted in the private board in the "Round Boosts and Rosters" thread. You simply need to say the player name and the boost used.

Lieutenant Upgrades (+4)

Extra Salvage (+2)

Reduced Discard (-2) - This applies to the "Discard from the Vault"("Discards from Deck" if no discards from vault) as per the table in section 4.2.

Tinkerer - Off-Element pendulums now count as your own Element for deckbuilding percentage and upgrade rules. You must use your own team's mark.

Sideboard of 3 cards - the first game must be played with the full deck. Before each match, you must import the deck from vault tool. After the first game, you may remove (up to) 3 cards after importing. If any of the three cards are upgraded, you may reallocate these upgrades elsewhere in the deck. The deck played should always be at least 50% in-Element, and should always contain at least 4 in-Element upgrades. Minimum deck size for the original deck (in vault tool) is 33 cards. This boost reduces your upgrades by 3, so 5 upgrades(4 of which must be in-element).

Mercenary - Can only use 4 or fewer Elements in the deck; deck only has to be 40% in-Element.

Gambler - Bet the scoreline (distinguishing between win or loss for your team) on this deck. If the scoreline is exactly right, you win 3 relics. If it's off by one game, you win 1 relic.

Alchemist - Can transmute cards with 2 less dust cost. (see Transmutations (#post_michealbay) for more information )

Deckbuilding rules:
- combining all decks may not use more than the Vault carries. Upgraded cards in decks are counted as unupgraded cards in the vault.
- at least 50% of the cards must be in your Element. "Mark of ..." cards are considered in the element they feature.
- Generals and Soldiers may use up to 11 and 4 upgraded cards respectively, with 4 extra in-Element upgraded cards. (So total upgrades are 15 and 8 respectively)
- teams may spend a Relic to grant 1 extra upgrade to a deck. There is no limit to how many Relics may be spent per round, however, Event Cards may change the ability of Relics each round, so pay close attention.

Explicitly Illegal Decks: Teams may title their illegal decks "Suicide". If so, they will not be penalized beyond a 0-3 result.

You must not edit your decks, salvage, discard, etc. after the deckbuilding period ends. Doing so will result in a penalty, regardless of what the change was.

3.3. DUELS
Players will contact their opponent to try find a time that suits both. If the fight does not happen, both players lose by default, unless one player is clearly more active in trying to find a suitable time. Warmasters will determine who the most active player is. Please try to clearly contact your opponent by forum PMs and keep screenshots/chatlogs as proof of activity.

Matches are best-of-five, which means that each battle's winner is the first player to win 3 duels. Remember, you must play all duels with the same deck and mark.

3.4. INACTIVE PLAYERS
If it looks like a member won't be able to fight during a round, the team has various options:

1. Temporarily replace a member with any other member. Temporary replacements use the same exact deck, number of upgrades, and mark as recorded for that player. Note: Mark cards in the original deck may be freely changed into their corresponding pillars if the sub doesn't have them.
2. Permanently replace a member with a player who submitted an application, but didn't end up on a team.
3. To permanently replace a General (as leader of the team), every other member must agree that the General needs replacing, and a consensus must be reached on who the new General will be. Warmasters will remove the General from the team at no cost. If a new player needs to be added, see above.

Note that a substitute may not use ANY cards the player they are replacing does not have.

If a team is abusing temporary replacements or substitutions (e.g. not letting players play even when they are available), please inform the WMs immediately with information. Warmasters will consider this on a case-by-case basis.

3.5. DISCONNECTS & DESYNCS


3.6. ADDITIONAL RULES


3.6.1. MINOR ERRORS
 
Minor mistakes will not result in automatically losing a match anymore. Instead, the player will be given the opportunity to fix their mistake and complete the match. A card penalty will be imposed due to the mistake, however. These errors include, but aren't limited to: copying the wrong deck from vault, having the wrong mark code in vault deck, assigning someone a deck with mark cards or nymphs they do not own (note that in this case any substitutes won't be able to use these cards either).

If the player detects the error before any cards are played in a duel, he can immediately stop the duel and fix his deck, without any loss in match record. But if any cards were played, that duel counts as a loss due to illegal deck. This is only one lost game though, not a lost match.

3.6.2. UPGRADES AND UNOWNED CARDS

If a player absolutely cannot build a deck with the upgrades required, he must provide proof. Then he may play the match out replacing the upgraded card with unupgraded version.

If a player does not own cards in a deck (either due to a minor error, or while subbing), he must replace mark cards with pillars of that element, and other cards with relic cards. If a mark card was upgraded, the replacement pillar may be upgraded as well. Arrangements will be made for players who do not have sufficient relics.

3.6.3. HYDRAS

In light of previous events, we will be allowing Hydras in this war. This refers to a group of more than one people using the same forum account. If a hydra registers, they must state how many people are part of the account and to what capacity clearly in the application. The hydra can use only one game account, as specified in the application, for all matches.

If anyone is found violating these rules, or if the nature of a hydra account creates disruption to the event, strict action will be taken, which might include major penalties, removal from event (and perhaps all etg forum PvP) and referral to admins for forum warnings/ban.

4. POSTBATTLE

4.1. WINNING A BATTLE
The winner of the duel starts a new topic in the "Battle Results" section, indicating the teams, the member roles, & the score. Member roles are abbreviated (Gen, Lt, Sld). For example if "KingKiller" from :air fights "LordOwner" from :water & wins 3-1, he will start a topic that could be titled in one of the following ways:
(Air Gen) KingKiller 3 - 1 (Water Lt) LordOwner
(Air Gen) KingKiller 3 - 1 LordOwner (Water Lt)
(Air Gen) KingKiller 3 - (Water Lt) LordOwner 1
(Air Sld) KingKiller 3 - 1 (Water Gen) LordOwner
(Air Lt) KingKiller 3 - (Water Sld) (Sub) LordOwner 1
(use SUB to indicate that someone else played instead of LordOwner)

 
In that topic, KingKiller will post his deck, and should summarize the match. LordOwner will then reply to that same topic with his deck. He may also talk about the battle if he so chooses. Everyone may post in the topics after LordOwner replies.
If the player who played the match is not available to post their deck immediately afterwards, one of their teammates must do it. If this happens, the player should post in the same topic as soon as they are available.
 
The winning team salvages cards from the opponent's deck. The winning team MUST pick 6 cards to copy from the deck of the losing player into their vault unupgraded. These cards become part of the Vault. If a players wins significantly over their opponent in a match, their rewards may be increased, refer to the table below for reference.

Match ScoreSalvage
3-07
3-16
3-26

If a deck contains no cards from market, then no cards may be salvaged. Thus all of them must be transmuted.

If a team wins three of its primary matches in a round (not ones due to EC), they will be awarded a relic.

When salvaging cards into your Vault, you may choose to transmute them into cards of your own element instead. The rules for this are detailed below:



4.2. TRANSMUTATIONS

For a specific deck, instead of salvaging the full 6 cards you may choose to transmute some instead. Then these cards are ground down into Transmutation Dust. Transmutation Dust is then used to procure cards of your own element which you have less than 12 of. The rates for this depend on market prices:

Market Price0 - 5055 - 100105 -150155+Pillars/Pendulums/Marks
Dust gained from grounding23453
Dust cost to transmute571013N/A

Note: Transmute happen after Salvage (so no transmuting cards salvaged to an amount above 12 this round).
Also, all the steps in transmuting from a deck happen in the deckbuilding phase where you might salvage from that deck. There is no leftover dust.

By default, you will grind the cards from the deck (left after salvage) which yield the highest amount of dust.
Dust totals are separate for each deck i.e. dust from two separate decks may not be used together to transmute something.
If your dust total leftover for a deck is enough to transmute something, you must transmute it instead of keeping the dust leftover. All leftover dust for a deck is thrown into the void and lost forever.

If a deck contains no cards from market, then no cards may be salvaged. Thus all of them must be transmuted.


4.3. LOSING A BATTLE
When a team loses a battle, they have to discard cards from the deck used and/or the Vault according to the chart below. Cards that are left in the deck after discarding are returned back to Vault. The discards may not be pillars/pendulums/mark cards, as these do not exist in the Vault.

Note: Discards happen before Salvage (so no discarding cards salvaged/transmuted this round).

RoundDiscards from DeckDiscards from VaultTotal Discards
1606
29312
3+15924


Match ScoreAdditional Discards
0-3+2(+4 starting Round 5)
1-3+1(+2 starting Round 5)
2-30
Note: This emphasizes the higher loss for a heavier score loss. Eg: a 0-3 loss R2 would discard 14 cards total, whereas a 2-3 loss in the same round would only discard 12 cards total.



4.4. WINNING WAR
A team wins War by being the last team standing, or by having the largest vault out of all participants in the last round if none of them remain standing. The winning team of War earns:
- a forum award icon: (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/awards/d5eb9767752e48c1598f1609ff9e0c3d_d5eb9767752e48c1598f1609ff9e0c3d_war8.png)
- the forum "Reigned by" image will be changed to show which Element won
- a Mark/Nymph reward code will be given to each worthy member (as decided by an administrator)

If two or more teams still have at least 50 cards in their Vault, the next round begins.


5. PENALTIES

Penalties are issued when a team somehow breaks the rules or disrupts War. A penalized team must discard from their Vault at the round's end. The following are guidelines, and Warmasters will determine penalties on a case-by-case basis.

Minor penalty: 5 cards. For small mistakes which do not disrupt the course of the event.
Medium penalty: 20 cards. For larger infractions which cause minor delays to the event.
Major penalty: 40 cards. For major infractions which seriously disrupt the event.

BACKROOM DEALS
Conspiring with other teams is forbidden. Even discussing already public information ruins the spirit of the event, making it less fun for everybody.

HAVE FUN!
War is a very exciting event and, despite being a lot to take in at first, is a fantastic opportunity for newer players to drastically improve their skills by working closely with experienced veterans. While the main appeal of War may be total Elemental domination, the primary goal for all players should be nice and simple - have fun!


To see how War is in reality, visit the War Archive subboard (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,175.0.html). Some things were done differently during previous Wars, but the same principles remain.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on November 13, 2018, 08:58:44 pm
Changelog


Changes from previous War



Auction (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war/war-11-rules/msg1267400/#post_nup)


Rules Updates


Boosts Updates (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/war/war-11-rules/msg1267400/#post_boost)


Postround




11/19


12/03


12/11


01/08


1/22

Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Zawadx on November 14, 2018, 06:20:56 pm
A changelog would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: kaempfer13 on November 14, 2018, 06:23:11 pm
especially for current market prices. Or do you actually mean to keep the old ones you are linking to?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: deuce22 on November 15, 2018, 05:00:24 am
Not a huge fan of the current auction/draft system. It’s better than traditional auction and will work fine, but I just think there is a more equitable way of doing it that is easier for Gens and would require a little more strategy.

To be specific, my biggest issue is that all teams are guaranteed a top 12 player for virtually no cost. Yes, some will pay more for a top 3 or 4 spot. But after round 1, I don’t see gens bidding very much... but maybe I’m wrong.

To me, it would make sense to submit all the bids all at once with a limit of combined cost, then determine draft order for all bids at once. That way all players are going for fair value. I guess just look at my post in the discussion thread. There’s probably a better way of wording it.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: kaempfer13 on November 26, 2018, 11:57:49 pm
can we send incomplete lists for draft (less than 12)? Atm it looks like there is no way around that anyway on day 2, but what i mean is do we have to put all remaining players on our draftlist when less than 12 are left? Additionally i'd like to say that 2 and a half men war doesnt really sound appealing and id actually even prefer having random elements fused together to form 6 teams over having several teams where everything hinges on one person that may go awol.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: shockcannon on November 27, 2018, 12:02:39 am
A Master of Time worried about his future outcome? Perhaps someone went to the future and saw a community reigned again by flames. What a delightful image.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on November 27, 2018, 08:45:49 am
Yeah I'd certainly prefer 6 team with current numbers
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: DoubleCapitals on November 27, 2018, 08:54:52 am
Yeah I'd certainly prefer 6 team with current numbers

Yeah I think you can thanos half the teams of combine them tbh. I second this.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: immortal feud on November 27, 2018, 09:00:03 am
as fun as snapping half the elements and having 6 teams start i think combining 2 elements to a team sounds really exciting
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on November 27, 2018, 10:00:38 am
Shake up the meta a bit too
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on December 04, 2018, 03:58:05 am
Change Log has been updated with some fixes for clarification today.

12/03


Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on December 04, 2018, 04:04:32 am
Can we get more detailed examples for the latest draft rules? All of: expected list format, impact of max bid per round? Total max bid, if any, and two sample lists with their resulting draft.

As I understand it, you essentially blind bid on every single player simultaneously?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Manuel on December 04, 2018, 04:07:23 am
the cap of 7500 is for a single player or for the all the draft?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on December 04, 2018, 04:29:57 am
Can we get more detailed examples for the latest draft rules? All of: expected list format, impact of max bid per round? Total max bid, if any, and two sample lists with their resulting draft.

As I understand it, you essentially blind bid on every single player simultaneously?

Max bid per player is 7,500 points.
Total points for bidding and building your vault is 32,000 points.



General A sends in
I would like 3 players
w3 - 7,100
Muffin - 7,100
TorB - 6,000
ddevs - 5,900
rob - 5,600
d2d - 5,000
cannon - 4,222
kaempf - 3,000
Kali - 2,120
Wyand - 1,900
Weeaboo - 1000
Manuel - 55


General B sends in
I would like 2 players
ddevs - 7,500
w3 - 7,400
rob - 7,300


The result will be:
General B gaining ddevs, and w3; having spent 14,900 and having 17,100 remaining for vault
General A gaining Muffin, TorB, and rob; having spent 18,700 and having 13,300 remaining for vault

In this example it shows that players each have an individual price attached, each is listed in descedning order of value.
General A feels that Muffin and w3 are equal (thus same bid price), but wants w3 more so he listed him above Muffin.
You are not required to utilize mulitples of 5(but it does make it easier for calculating for WMs), as can be seen by General A bidding on cannon.
You may bid on all available players(like General A), or on as few as you wish(like General B), or any amount in between.


I need some sleep, will add in a second example tomorrow(unless jijo or asd get to it first). my apologies.
If this is still not clear enough, and Generals feel that a better explanation is needed WMs will discuss extending it 24-48hrs to accommodate the additional time for clarifications.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: shockcannon on December 04, 2018, 11:40:52 pm
Just want to know if this is a one round thing or a multi-round thing? Should I be sending in a list with 27 players ranked all at once to be safe? Also what is the maximum team size I can have?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: kaempfer13 on December 05, 2018, 12:01:22 am
If we fail to draft as many people as we wanted will we be punished with a maximum bid on some random leftover (clearly not even on our list) or will this only happen if we fail to draft 2 persons and otherwise it will just take people on our list until either everyone on our list has found a home or we reached our number of players?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: worldwideweb3 on December 05, 2018, 12:32:40 am
Am i allowed to order the bids based on my priority? Like i send in the following bids:

person A: 50
person b: 150
person c: 100
person d: 250


And if all 4 bids are winning bids, i get person A, B and C and not D, B and C?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Manuel on December 05, 2018, 06:39:26 am
wait is still 5 battles/round no matter what?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: worldwideweb3 on December 06, 2018, 01:21:41 am
bump can we haz the answers pls :)
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: InsignificantWeeaboo on December 06, 2018, 01:29:18 am
No, I think they're going for 4 battles per round.

Still curious about final market prices, tho
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: asdw152 on December 06, 2018, 01:55:33 am
There will be 4 matches per round, and we are in the process of finalizing the market.

@www3: bid priority is based on bid value. Based on your example, if you win, you'd receive D, then B, then C.

@shock: Max teams are 4 (1 gen + 3 soldiers). Sending in a list of 27 is not necessary, but if you sent in 3 bids and got out bid on all, you'd decrease the randomness of the soldiers.

@kaempfer: If you ask for 3 soldiers and receive 2, then there's no penalty. If you receive less than two, then we go down the list until you receive at least 2. Should we reach the end of your list and you still don't have enough, the random soldiers given will cost max bid.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: worldwideweb3 on December 06, 2018, 01:56:47 am
What about some of the auction qs ^^ just hope that we can get the answers before deadline :)
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: ddevans96 on December 06, 2018, 02:31:42 pm
This War: 32000 total points, maximum bid per player is 7500

Last War: 32000 total points, maximum bid total is 6000

This system really doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: MyNameIsJoey on December 06, 2018, 04:38:56 pm
Well then consider that and dont spend all your points?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: CCCombobreaker on December 06, 2018, 04:46:06 pm
maybe the decrease in total applicants led to an increase in potential cost per player to help offset vault inflation?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: ddevans96 on December 06, 2018, 10:00:14 pm
Well then consider that and dont spend all your points?

Obviously. The fact that it can be worked around doesn't mean it isn't a flawed system. Was hoping for some rationale behind the chosen number, but whatever. Better than many alternatives, I suppose.

maybe the decrease in total applicants led to an increase in potential cost per player to help offset vault inflation?

That's definitely it. Just wonder why an inflation rate of over 50% (highest bid last War was around 4800) was chosen.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on December 12, 2018, 04:17:02 am
The Warmasters have been discussing some comments regarding the Vault Discount Deadline, after much discussion and some valuable input from the Generals(thank you very much Gens) we have decided to push back the deadline from 72hrs to 1 week.

Additionally vault links will be sent out by PM later this evening to all teams, as we are still awaiting Admins to fix secret section access rights. more info will be in the PMs or in the announcement posts.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: kaempfer13 on December 12, 2018, 08:48:34 pm
Pretty important question: Do weapons and shields count for Engineer coupon? I mean they are permanents, but they are listed separately in vault tool.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: asdw152 on December 12, 2018, 11:40:56 pm
WMs agree that shields and weapons belong under the engineer coupon.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Mr Muffin on December 30, 2018, 02:03:07 am
Does the vault tool automatically factor in each teams vault discount or do the teams have to manually calculate it and ignore the vault tool calling the vault illegal? Or something else. Explain this please.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: asdw152 on December 30, 2018, 02:42:47 am
Vaults should already have the discounts applied. Maybe something else?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Vangelios on December 31, 2018, 11:00:58 pm
I like of the Biologist - Engineer - Doctor for vault building, I believe most teams will chosen biologist, especially :life :air :water :earth and :darkness
and doctor is pretty inviable because are just 5 points when should be at least 10 to be really atractive....
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Blacksmith on January 08, 2019, 02:39:27 pm
Quote
3.1. DETERMINING OPPONENTS
The number of cards in the Vault determine how many players from each team participates in a round:

0-49 cards=team is eliminated
50-74 cards=2 players fight
75-99 cards=3 players fight
100-124 cards=4 players fight
125+ cards=5 players fight

Maybe changes this?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Blacksmith on January 08, 2019, 02:46:29 pm
Well then consider that and dont spend all your points?

Obviously. The fact that it can be worked around doesn't mean it isn't a flawed system. Was hoping for some rationale behind the chosen number, but whatever. Better than many alternatives, I suppose.

Tbh the 6K maximum was to low imo and the previous 2K maximum was a joke. The current limit makes more sense. Which also was reflected in the draft. Some teams thought it was worth spending those extra points. I still agree having a limit, we don't want to do like first war when people spent half their vault on players, 1/3 is decent.

When determining success in war:
40% element
25% team
17.5% rng
17.5% vault size

Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on January 14, 2019, 05:09:01 pm
I find the new rules based on the alignment of the moon and sun match score to be rather confusing.
Apparently we discard +2 cards per match we go 0 - 3 (since it's not round 5 yet), and these 2 cards come from vault, correct? Now we have an Event Card that reduces discard by 2. Does that mean we get 2 less deck discards, as we had planned, or that the EC is rendered almost useless by reducing vault discard by 2?

In general, when teams want less discards, they want less deck discards. I could not care less about vault discards yet, at this point in war. I know the discard role focuses on vault discard unless none is available, but nothing is specified like this for the EC.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: asdw152 on January 14, 2019, 08:23:35 pm
Do you mean Week of Welcome SEC? That ends in round 3.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on January 14, 2019, 10:05:28 pm
I mean how the effects of the extra discards mentioned at the end of 4.3 combine with reduced discards from the religious organization.

+2 discard from vault -2 discard from unmentioned combines to?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on January 14, 2019, 10:06:24 pm
I find the new rules based on the alignment of the moon and sun match score to be rather confusing.
Apparently we discard +2 cards per match we go 0 - 3 (since it's not round 5 yet), and these 2 cards come from vault, correct? Now we have an Event Card that reduces discard by 2. Does that mean we get 2 less deck discards, as we had planned, or that the EC is rendered almost useless by reducing vault discard by 2?

In general, when teams want less discards, they want less deck discards. I could not care less about vault discards yet, at this point in war. I know the discard role focuses on vault discard unless none is available, but nothing is specified like this for the EC.

We understand that the extra salvage/discard, and then also removal of salvage/discard can be confusing and for that we do apologize as that was not our original intent when we were trying to implement the new ideas and Event cards.

We did not have an intention for the removal of discards through the Super Event Card to be from a specific place. To try and create the least amount of friction, the ruling will be that these 2 less discards may be from either deck or vault.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Vineroz on January 15, 2019, 03:50:08 am
A series of questions regarding transmutation:

Market Price50-60-100105-150160+Pillars/Pendulums/Marks
Dust gained from grounding23453
Dust cost to transmute571013N/A

1a. Is the first bucket meant to be having a market price of 50-55?
1b. If yes, is it possible to transmute cards with cost less than 50?
1c. If yes, What are their grounding/crafting cost?

2a. Is the vault building discount considered during transmutation?
2b. If yes, am I correct to assume that we can use the card cost in vault building tool to calculate grounding/crafting cost?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on January 15, 2019, 04:05:06 am
A series of questions regarding transmutation:

Market Price50-60-100105-150160+Pillars/Pendulums/Marks
Dust gained from grounding23453
Dust cost to transmute571013N/A

1a. Is the first bucket meant to be having a market price of 50-55? nope this is anything minus 50.  0-50 might be a clearer way to write it.
1b. If yes, is it possible to transmute cards with cost less than 50?
1c. If yes, What are their grounding/crafting cost?


2a. Is the vault building discount considered during transmutation? Let me confirm this with the other WMs, but I believe our intention is no so that way transmutations are even for all teams. That was something we had not balanced the discount boosts for, but I will confirm and return with an answer for you.
2b. If yes, am I correct to assume that we can use the card cost in vault building tool to calculate grounding/crafting cost? If we go this route, then yes the market prices from your vaultbuilding tool can be used.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: immortal feud on January 15, 2019, 04:18:42 am
why would you need to grind cards cheaper than 100 down when PPM grind for the same amount of dust?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: kaempfer13 on January 15, 2019, 04:38:40 am
i guess 55 and 155 cost cards cannot be transmuted then  :silly:
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: dawn to dusk on January 16, 2019, 12:39:05 am
i guess 55 and 155 cost cards cannot be transmuted then  :silly:
*Cries in Golden Dragon*
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: worldwideweb3 on January 21, 2019, 01:48:02 am
[01:43:21] ‹Vineroz› I guess SoFree is the only card that has better value when transmute than buying from vault building

Especially with alchemist. Either need to change the trasmutation cost or not allow shards to be transmutated. RN, fractal and sundial are in the same bracket as sofree, massive loophole.

For next war
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: dawn to dusk on January 21, 2019, 01:51:16 am
[01:43:21] ‹Vineroz› I guess SoFree is the only card that has better value when transmute than buying from vault building

Especially with alchemist. Either need to change the trasmutation cost or not allow shards to be transmutated. RN, fractal and sundial are in the same bracket as sofree, massive loophole.

For next war
I disagree with Shards not being Transmutable, but cards over 200 Market Price should have that restriction
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Manuel on January 21, 2019, 07:35:34 am
> risked a lot to not bring them, an 1-3 in first round was an autoloss in war
> planned everything during the vaultbuilding weeks ago
> 4-0 first round, if we wasn't going to win we wasn't able to get sofree
> still traded 3 cards for a single sofree, i didn't get it gratis

pls fix transmutation is broken
 
there are team fire and team gravity doing a giveaway of sofree and sopa, u was able to salvage 4 sofree gratis, i tossed away 18 cards and 4 wins for them your way is totally more balanced than mine don't make me laugh
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 21, 2019, 02:39:30 pm
> risked a lot to not bring them, an 1-3 in first round was an autoloss in war
> planned everything during the vaultbuilding weeks ago
> 4-0 first round, if we wasn't going to win we wasn't able to get sofree
> still traded 3 cards for a single sofree, i didn't get it gratis

pls fix transmutation is broken
 
there are team fire and team gravity doing a giveaway of sofree and sopa, u was able to salvage 4 sofree gratis, i tossed away 18 cards and 4 wins for them your way is totally more balanced than mine don't make me laugh
gratis means free for those unfamiliar with italian
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: kaempfer13 on January 21, 2019, 09:35:54 pm
in fact air must have forfeited 24 salvage for 6 sofree, given most of it wasnt too valuable (in dusting value) (4 3 dust cards not enough to make 1 sofree). Although he might have meant that he has 18 less cards in vault than he would otherwise have, then everything adds up.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: worldwideweb3 on January 21, 2019, 09:36:50 pm
in fact air must have forfeited 24 salvage for 6 sofree, given most of it wasnt too valuable (in dusting value) (4 3 dust cards not enough to make 1 sofree). Although he might have meant that he has 18 less cards in vault than he would otherwise have, then everything adds up.

They used alchemist
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: kaempfer13 on January 21, 2019, 09:45:14 pm
the alchemist deck salvaged from a 3 dust per card deck so thats still only 2 sofree and a card
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: worldwideweb3 on January 21, 2019, 09:48:23 pm
the alchemist deck salvaged from a 3 dust per card deck so thats still only 2 sofree and a card

Alchemist applies to all the salvage in the round, not just that deck I think?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: moehrpi on January 21, 2019, 10:28:28 pm
the alchemist deck salvaged from a 3 dust per card deck so thats still only 2 sofree and a card

Alchemist applies to all the salvage in the round, not just that deck I think?

Pretty sure boosts only affect one deck.
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Jen-i on January 22, 2019, 12:49:49 am
the alchemist deck salvaged from a 3 dust per card deck so thats still only 2 sofree and a card

Alchemist applies to all the salvage in the round, not just that deck I think?

Pretty sure boosts only affect one deck.

Would be strange otherwise as every other boost only affects the deck it is used in
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: mathman101 on January 22, 2019, 12:57:51 am
the alchemist deck salvaged from a 3 dust per card deck so thats still only 2 sofree and a card

Alchemist applies to all the salvage in the round, not just that deck I think?

Pretty sure boosts only affect one deck.

Would be strange otherwise as every other boost only affects the deck it is used in

The alchemist soldier boost only applies to the match that it was used in.

The Super EC chemistry club boost (which is similar to alchemist) is usable for the whole team.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion. :)
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Mobian on January 22, 2019, 02:42:40 am
the alchemist deck salvaged from a 3 dust per card deck so thats still only 2 sofree and a card

Alchemist applies to all the salvage in the round, not just that deck I think?

Pretty sure boosts only affect one deck.

Would be strange otherwise as every other boost only affects the deck it is used in

The alchemist soldier boost only applies to the match that it was used in.

The Super EC chemistry club boost (which is similar to alchemist) is usable for the whole team.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion. :)

Do they stack?
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: Manuel on January 22, 2019, 08:06:15 am
yes i transmuted 24 cards for 6 sofrees, i miscalculated
Title: Re: War #12 - Rules
Post by: asdw152 on January 22, 2019, 08:57:33 am
the alchemist deck salvaged from a 3 dust per card deck so thats still only 2 sofree and a card

Alchemist applies to all the salvage in the round, not just that deck I think?

Pretty sure boosts only affect one deck.

Would be strange otherwise as every other boost only affects the deck it is used in

The alchemist soldier boost only applies to the match that it was used in.

The Super EC chemistry club boost (which is similar to alchemist) is usable for the whole team.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion. :)

Do they stack?

Yes, both Alchemist and Chem club stack.
blarg: