Poll

What method of choosing applicants should we use?

Auction System (will be similar to last war, with some slight adjustments)
9 (32.1%)
Draft System (multiple rounds, as is currently planned)
7 (25%)
Other (please post if you have another suggestion that isn't an auction or draft)
0 (0%)
Draft System (a single round draft, to bid on the entire team at once.)
12 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Voting closed: December 03, 2018, 02:02:49 am

Poll

What method of Vault Building should we use?

Market System (will be similar to what we have with adjustments to prices based on feedback)
10 (52.6%)
Cards bought at a 1:1 ratio (similar to War 8 and earlier wars before the introduction of the market system)
7 (36.8%)
Other (please post if you have another suggestion that isn't a market, or 1:1 system for buying cards)
2 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: October 20, 2018, 04:15:25 am

*Author

Offline mathman101Topic starter

  • Administrator (Warblind)
  • ********
  • ********
  • Posts: 2227
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 49
  • mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.mathman101 is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • I like pet 'thoup!!
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday Cake13th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeBrawl #7 Winner - Green NightWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSilver DonorWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1282989#msg1282989
« Reply #84 on: December 02, 2018, 07:23:33 pm »
i hate draft. If i want player A and B, and i make high bids on both in R1 draft, i'll only get one of them and may lose the other player to a Gen, even if that gen bid less than me. If draft is changed and if the highest bid for B is by me, then i get first dibs on him, regardless if i already have a player that round, then i wouldnt mind supporitng it.

That sort of draft is exactly what I’ve proposed multiple times in this thread and the S&F thread over the past year. It’s fair, strategic, alots appropriate value for all players, and it takes hardly any time.

The only reason auction is being considered right now is because the current draft rules make little sense. Just fix the draft rules and everything will be as it should... except WMs still haven’t nerfed monoair sofree or gotten rid of market prices. What’s the point in having a S&F thread if nothing is done about the big issues that plague this event repeatedly?

@WMs would you consider this?

From the WMs understanding of discussion in this thread regarding draft, the one round draft that we have been currently discussing in regards to editing in place of the current draft. Hopefully this is more appropriate to what is being asked for here.

Please let us know if we have misunderstood what is being asked for, but this is what we have been discussing, and what we would change it to:

Spoiler for Hidden:
1 round of about 48 hours
Gens bid at once, sending in a list for all the people they would like to bid on.
Additionally Gens state with their bid lists the amount of players they want for their team, 2 or 3.
Gens list a price planned along with each player.
The list must be ordered numerically descending with the highest price at the top.
Gens may list as few or as many players they want, but if they do not win enough of their bids, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly.
If Generals want a total of more players then are available, those bidding the highest for their 3rd will receive the full amount they asked for. (currently 27 players means the potential for; three 4-player teams, and nine 3-player teams). Minimum of 2 players needed, 2-man teams are not-allowed!

After all bids are in;
The WMs will organize all the bids by price amount bid.
Then the highest priced bid will win that player, then the next highest bid amount, and so forth.
This means General A could win 3 players before any other General if they have the 3 highest bids.
If a player is tied with the highest bid amount, then the favorites will be looked at. If neither of the tied Gen bids are on the favorite list, then the player will randomly be slotted into one of the teams by dice roll.
If a General does not win a minimum number of players needed, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly from those remaining. If there would not be anyone remaining, then the lowest bid legal players (one that is not on a bans list) from one of the teams with the most players would be removed and placed on the team that is needing the player.


Spoiler for Example:
If these were the bid lists we recieved:
ApplicantGeneral A (2 players wanted)
Albert1000
Benson940
Catherine820
Delrose300
ApplicantGeneral B (1 player wanted)
Delrose670
Albert670
Benson670
Catherine670
ApplicantGeneral C (2 players wanted)
Benson2000
Delrose670
Catherine70


We would then arrange it as

Benson - 2000 - General C
Albert - 1000 - General A
Benson - 940 - General A
Cathrine - 820 - General A
Delrose - 670 - General B, Delrose - 670 - General C
Albert - 670 - General B
Benson - 670 - General B
Cathrine - 670 - General B
Delrose - 300 - General A
Cathrine - 70 - General C



Benson would be won by General C,
Albert would be won by General A,
Catherine would be won by General A, (this fills his want for 2 players)
Delrose would then either be coin flipped into team B or C if neither are on the favorites list.


If we misunderstood what is wanted by the community and war-player base, please let us know so that we can re-evaluate what is actually wanted.







Also a big thanks to everyone's patience regarding this event. As Warmasters, we want to make sure we bring you the best possible event and unfortunately that means changing decisions when plans do not go as expected (like fewer applicants than planned). A big thanks to everyone and we are still hoping for an awesome event once things get rolling and this gets started!
something....something....something.....

Offline kaempfer13

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2099
  • Country: de
  • Reputation Power: 44
  • kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.kaempfer13 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • Awards: There Can Only Be One - 2020 WinnerSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeOEtG Rags to Riches WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 3/2018 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerThere Can Be Only One - 2018 WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of TimeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerElements League 2/2017 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWinner of Draft #4 - PvP EventSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerDeckbuilding Competition: It's Greek to MeWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1282992#msg1282992
« Reply #85 on: December 02, 2018, 08:18:41 pm »
As an alternative, here is how i would do auction:

  • Every General can bid on any player, so long as the new bid is the current winning bid+ the minimum raise and the total of their curently winning bids doesnt exceed half their starting points (that means you cant lock yourselfes out of bidding on people unless you are greatly overbidding).
  • Players who have been bid on 24 hours ago and not been bid on by another general since are locked into that team (so after at least a day action is required; now with generals being able to bid more or less freely this wont result in players going for way too cheap, while everyone else is semilocked into a team).
  • Minimum raise will be calculated as follows: - 100+25*clock of doom counters+ 50 for less favourite
    Let me explain:
    • any raise has to be at least 100 in addition to all the other factors
    • The clock of doom advances every 6 hours since the beginning of auction. So after a day the minimum raise will be 200 (100+25*4).
    • The less favourite summand only applies if the general with the current winning bid is higher on that players favourite list than the element of the general making the new bid
  • You can raise your own bids by any amount so long as you hold the winning bid. This will not reset the timer for locking the player in.
  • Minimum starting bid (before any other bids have been made for that player, unaffected by the clock of doom) is 50+ 50*number of bans (quite frankly I never understood why bans increase your minimum bid; the players that certain teams absolutely want will definitely go for more anyways, so whats the point? Just keeping it out of tradition.)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 08:31:52 pm by kaempfer13 »
:gravity War 10
:death and tied for master of STANDIN War 11
Master of :time War 12

Offline deuce22

  • Master of Aether
  • *
  • ******
  • Posts: 3163
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 44
  • deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.deuce22 soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • never trust a badger
  • Awards: War #14 Winner - Team Aether14th Trials - Master of AetherWeekly Tournament Winner11th Trials - Master of Aether10th Trials - Master of AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of Aether2014 - PvP World ChampionWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner8th Trials - Master of AetherWinner of Team PvP #6War #7 Winner - Team Aether7th Trials - Master of AetherWar #6 Winner - Team AetherWeekly Tournament Winner6th Trials - Master of AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWar #5 Winner - Team AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner5th Trials - Master of AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1282999#msg1282999
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2018, 05:12:28 am »
i hate draft. If i want player A and B, and i make high bids on both in R1 draft, i'll only get one of them and may lose the other player to a Gen, even if that gen bid less than me. If draft is changed and if the highest bid for B is by me, then i get first dibs on him, regardless if i already have a player that round, then i wouldnt mind supporitng it.

That sort of draft is exactly what I’ve proposed multiple times in this thread and the S&F thread over the past year. It’s fair, strategic, alots appropriate value for all players, and it takes hardly any time.

The only reason auction is being considered right now is because the current draft rules make little sense. Just fix the draft rules and everything will be as it should... except WMs still haven’t nerfed monoair sofree or gotten rid of market prices. What’s the point in having a S&F thread if nothing is done about the big issues that plague this event repeatedly?

@WMs would you consider this?

From the WMs understanding of discussion in this thread regarding draft, the one round draft that we have been currently discussing in regards to editing in place of the current draft. Hopefully this is more appropriate to what is being asked for here.

Please let us know if we have misunderstood what is being asked for, but this is what we have been discussing, and what we would change it to:

Spoiler for Hidden:
1 round of about 48 hours
Gens bid at once, sending in a list for all the people they would like to bid on.
Additionally Gens state with their bid lists the amount of players they want for their team, 2 or 3.
Gens list a price planned along with each player.
The list must be ordered numerically descending with the highest price at the top.
Gens may list as few or as many players they want, but if they do not win enough of their bids, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly.
If Generals want a total of more players then are available, those bidding the highest for their 3rd will receive the full amount they asked for. (currently 27 players means the potential for; three 4-player teams, and nine 3-player teams). Minimum of 2 players needed, 2-man teams are not-allowed!

After all bids are in;
The WMs will organize all the bids by price amount bid.
Then the highest priced bid will win that player, then the next highest bid amount, and so forth.
This means General A could win 3 players before any other General if they have the 3 highest bids.
If a player is tied with the highest bid amount, then the favorites will be looked at. If neither of the tied Gen bids are on the favorite list, then the player will randomly be slotted into one of the teams by dice roll.
If a General does not win a minimum number of players needed, the remaining slots for their team will be filled in randomly from those remaining. If there would not be anyone remaining, then the lowest bid legal players (one that is not on a bans list) from one of the teams with the most players would be removed and placed on the team that is needing the player.


Spoiler for Example:
If these were the bid lists we recieved:
ApplicantGeneral A (2 players wanted)
Albert1000
Benson940
Catherine820
Delrose300
ApplicantGeneral B (1 player wanted)
Delrose670
Albert670
Benson670
Catherine670
ApplicantGeneral C (2 players wanted)
Benson2000
Delrose670
Catherine70


We would then arrange it as

Benson - 2000 - General C
Albert - 1000 - General A
Benson - 940 - General A
Cathrine - 820 - General A
Delrose - 670 - General B, Delrose - 670 - General C
Albert - 670 - General B
Benson - 670 - General B
Cathrine - 670 - General B
Delrose - 300 - General A
Cathrine - 70 - General C



Benson would be won by General C,
Albert would be won by General A,
Catherine would be won by General A, (this fills his want for 2 players)
Delrose would then either be coin flipped into team B or C if neither are on the favorites list.


If we misunderstood what is wanted by the community and war-player base, please let us know so that we can re-evaluate what is actually wanted.







Also a big thanks to everyone's patience regarding this event. As Warmasters, we want to make sure we bring you the best possible event and unfortunately that means changing decisions when plans do not go as expected (like fewer applicants than planned). A big thanks to everyone and we are still hoping for an awesome event once things get rolling and this gets started!

This format is interesting, but not exactly what I was suggesting.  This system seems more like a blind auction rather than a draft... Seems like its a lot more work for Gens to apply values to all of the applicants too. Also, Gens may end up spending a lot on 2 players when they only want 1 high cost player.

Why not just have all Gens submit to WMs how much they want to spend on their 2 players. The draft order is then determined by how much each Gen bids.

Spoiler for example:
Gen A - 2000, 1000 (3000 total)
Gen B - 1100, 500 (1600 total)
Gen C - 50, 50 (100 total)
Gen D - 900, 200 (1100 total)

Draft Order
1. Gen A - 2000
2. Gen B - 1100
3. Gen A - 1000
4. Gen D - 900
5. Gen B - 500
6. Gen D - 200
7. Gen C - 50
8. Gen C - 50

Once draft order is determined, Gens can then submit their rank list of players. WMs then use these rank lists to determine teams. The few players who are leftover can then join teams either free of charge or for min bid. Question is, which teams get one of these leftover players.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 05:15:27 am by deuce22 »

Offline TheonlyrealBeef

  • Master of Darkness
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4058
  • Country: nl
  • Reputation Power: 61
  • TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!TheonlyrealBeef shines with the light of the Morning Glory!
  • Do not underestimate the power of the dark side!
  • Awards: War #14 Winner - Team Aether14th Trials - Master of Darkness2019 - PvP World ChampionSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeWar #13 Winner - Team Darkness13th Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner4th Grandmaster Battle Winner - DarknessGold DonorSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team DarknessWeekly Tournament Winner12th Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday Cake2017 - PvP World ChampionWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 3/2016 2nd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeTeam PvP #4 Winner5th Trials - Master of Darkness4th Trials - Master of Darkness3rd Trials - Master of DarknessWeekly Tournament WinnerMS Paint Card Art #2 Winner
Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1283000#msg1283000
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2018, 05:55:11 am »
For the third player, you can just include those bids right away. If there are 4 "extra" players, the 4 highest third bids of teams will be used. The other third bids are discarded, even if they are higher than a first or second bid of another team.

That at least seems the fairest solution to me. Want more players? Just gotta pay enough.

 

blarg: