Poll

What method of choosing applicants should we use?

Auction System (will be similar to last war, with some slight adjustments)
5 (26.3%)
Draft System (will be similar to War 8 draft with minor adjustments)
14 (73.7%)
Other (please post if you have another suggestion that isn't an auction or draft)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: October 20, 2018, 04:12:04 AM

Poll

What method of Vault Building should we use?

Market System (will be similar to what we have with adjustments to prices based on feedback)
10 (52.6%)
Cards bought at a 1:1 ratio (similar to War 8 and earlier wars before the introduction of the market system)
7 (36.8%)
Other (please post if you have another suggestion that isn't a market, or 1:1 system for buying cards)
2 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: October 20, 2018, 04:15:25 AM

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Offline serprex

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281219#msg1281219
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2018, 01:26:15 PM »
I'm going to give a rationale for why SoPa should be nerfed as much as SoFr: SoFr is trouble for everyone, whereas SoPa shits on Team Light most specifically. With Light already going through the mud with all their core cards being nerfed since they're such strong support (sanct, miracle, sundial, hope) it may be easier to equally nerf those stallbreaker cards (SoPa, Fractal). I can see you're trying by reducing the cost of the rest of their cards, but even if Light ends up with a fair vault size for price, they're still at a disadvantage since every deck is half Light crap as opposed to every other team besides Gravity being able to threaten Sanct stall as one of their decks

A fair (ie, not based on past results) starting-auction-funds can be worked out by categorizing cards as either Support or Core (ie, what's good splashed with any element vs what's plain good value) & then computing some f(supportcards, corecards, totalcards) = startingfunds

Anyways last nitpick: Prices at multiples of 5 are silly, just divide everything by 5, only use is that one can bid 3 more on one person & 2 more on another person. But in that case you're better off making everything a multiple of 6

edit: support vs core is also why we see the debate between SoPa & SoFr. SoPa's support, SoFr's core. By JCJ's logic that SoPa is balanced because everyone can use it, Sanct/Miracle should be cheaper
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 01:29:26 PM by serprex »

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281220#msg1281220
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 03:10:57 PM »
I'm going to give a rationale for why SoPa should be nerfed as much as SoFr: SoFr is trouble for everyone, whereas SoPa shits on Team Light most specifically. With Light already going through the mud with all their core cards being nerfed since they're such strong support (sanct, miracle, sundial, hope) it may be easier to equally nerf those stallbreaker cards (SoPa, Fractal). I can see you're trying by reducing the cost of the rest of their cards, but even if Light ends up with a fair vault size for price, they're still at a disadvantage since every deck is half Light crap as opposed to every other team besides Gravity being able to threaten Sanct stall as one of their decks

A fair (ie, not based on past results) starting-auction-funds can be worked out by categorizing cards as either Support or Core (ie, what's good splashed with any element vs what's plain good value) & then computing some f(supportcards, corecards, totalcards) = startingfunds

Anyways last nitpick: Prices at multiples of 5 are silly, just divide everything by 5, only use is that one can bid 3 more on one person & 2 more on another person. But in that case you're better off making everything a multiple of 6

edit: support vs core is also why we see the debate between SoPa & SoFr. SoPa's support, SoFr's core. By JCJ's logic that SoPa is balanced because everyone can use it, Sanct/Miracle should be cheaper
I mostly agree with Serprex.
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Offline JonathanCrazyJ

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281221#msg1281221
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 03:25:27 PM »
Sop is still pricey as hell, but fair imo. And sofree shits on aether more than sop does to light. I would say sanc and miracle could be 90 though, 10 cheaper each
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Offline worldwideweb3

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281222#msg1281222
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2018, 03:48:54 PM »
I just wanna say that reflective is way too overpriced. I'll look at the rest after.
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Offline JonathanCrazyJ

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281224#msg1281224
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2018, 06:06:36 PM »
Prices:
Some have reasoning attached, others are just general balance

++ = should cost WAY more
+ = should cost more
- = should cost less
-- = should cost WAY less


Lycan -

Flesh Spider -
Mummy + (very good unupped creature, extremely good in RT mummies)

Gravity Shield ++ (look at all of the other 'tech' cards, purify, reflective etc, all over 100. Gravity Shield is massively strong agains some elements, should be similar to those cards. This is not actually an SOP thing because i almost always run PC, this is against elements that pretty much only have fat creatures. Wings should be a comparison card too.)
Shard of Focus - (PC, strong PC, but not insane PC, because the weakness to CC and teh turn delay, 190 would make more sense IMO)
Saphire Charger -

Frog + (with the rest of life cheap, as a war winning element, this one card IS a strong card, and it is nova fodder too.)

Immolation -
Phoenix -

Ice Bolt -
Freeze -- (both of these are really inferior CC, Ice bolt can't OHK on its own which is really bad for a stallbreak card, freeze has been barely used by anyone)

Miracle -
Sanc -
Hope ++

Gargoyle - (rest of dark is pretty pricey, basic creature should be a little cheaper)

Turquoise Nymph -- (it's in line with 30 cost cards)
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Offline serprex

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281226#msg1281226
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2018, 09:37:52 PM »
Sop is still pricey as hell, but fair imo. And sofree shits on aether more than sop does to light. I would say sanc and miracle could be 90 though, 10 cheaper each

Light has to defend SoPa from every element. Aether only has to defend SoFr from Air. This follows from your own reasoning

Offline Manuel

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281230#msg1281230
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2018, 04:28:59 AM »
in my opinion the creatures called "midhitters" should all cost less and have the same prices of war 10 rather than war 11

graviton merc with 5 matches/round should cost 90 if not even less
hematite golem is currently at 90, it should cost 80 no matter how much is stats are good for the quanta price, graboid >> auburn >>>> golem (wardens and gnomes are standalone cards)
abomination should cost 60
phoenix 110

other cards

deflag should cost less than steal, dark domin >>> deck with random fire splash with deflag
hammer at 30 is too cheap, in last war was at 60 lol
nightmare at 140 is simply not worthy, in war 10 was at 110
shard of sacrifice is borderline, if in a bo3 u can count on the surprise factor in game 1 and win 50% of your battle in bo5 this doesn't happen, it should cost 130, in war 10 was at 120
no idea why catapult is so pricey, it has no sense alone, u need to already invest a lot for aw and titans (already more expensive by 20 and 10 from war 10), if someone want to catapult armagio let them catapult is armagios

part where i try to favourite my element

shockwave 100, in war 10 was 80, it should cost max 90 (and still there is no reason to that random price increase it is terrible)
blue nymph random bump to 135 rather than 130 just for do something? not having them upgraded is already a nerf
azure dragon being the second most expensive dragon while being forced to play it upgraded because unupped is terrible, in war 10 was at 65, now is 90, the only non shard card with a +25 cost, it should cost 70 since i can't buy sofree with that mad price

Offline CactusKing

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281231#msg1281231
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2018, 05:22:13 AM »
Dark cards are good support, sure, but the entire element shouldn't suffer for it. Just because darkness has a lack of offensive creatures and relies on gargoyle and dragons for offence doesn't mean those cards are strong enough to justify the price (black dragon 1.5x emerald dragon in the draft market, and gargoyle priced equal to ghost of the past, a much better card, is a bit wrong I think)
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Offline asdw152

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281300#msg1281300
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 08:19:38 AM »
Update with what WMs have considered through this time:

  • Fixed incremental discards/salvage table to show fewer discards/salvages the closer the match.
  • EC: We will try to refrain from using timed EC
  • Coupons: We had the idea to implement a minimum on the coupons, such as a minimum of 30 using the coupons, or the coupons only applied to cards greater than 50, for example.
  • Market: We have not had an opportunity to look at the market in detail, but we do recognize your concerns over certain cards being off-price.
  • UR: We will still need to discuss ultra rare cards, such as nymphs and marks. For now, our leaning is that swapping nymphs with their respective alchemy cards is fine, but swapping nymphs with dragons is more iffy, and may need to go on a case by case basis.
  • Re-Auction: No

We thank you for your (So)Patience, so that we can make this War fun for everyone.
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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281301#msg1281301
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2018, 06:30:55 PM »
Feedback time.

1:All is close to very good.
2:The auction should have cost raise after the first day.
3:The raises should be high. I've been in wars where the auction has taken over a month. Aim to have it done in 1 week.A long auction makes people less motivated.
4:And most important of all, make the amount you can spend on the the auction to be 1/3 of the total coins/cards/points you have. This is necessary, important, crucial, vital and essential. Seriously! I know what I'm talking about I've been a general practically 4.5 times.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 07:56:21 PM by Blacksmith »
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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281308#msg1281308
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2018, 12:42:16 AM »
[snip]
- I don't mind LT being a soldier role, but Upgrade role shouldn't go. Some elements need upgrades more than others, and 5 matches is already a huge nerf to teams who rely more on upgrades, have it so people can go 15 / 8(boost) / 8(boost) / 8(boost) / 8(boost) if they want to, but people should also be able to go 15 / 12 / 10 / 8(boost) / 8(boost) if they want to. [snip]
I agree with this, and I also want to propose the alternative of increasing the default upgrades a Soldier can use. This increase could be any of the following:
  • +1 of any card
  • +2 of any card
  • The two above, but swapped to in-element
  • +1 of any, +1 in element (In element increase for both Generals and Soldiers)

EDIT: Wait, this is already being discussed, isn't it.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 12:54:19 AM by InsignificantWeeaboo »
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Offline shockcannon

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Re: War #12 - Planned Changes (Work In Progress) (Discussion) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66382.msg1281309#msg1281309
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2018, 02:28:35 AM »
Can you have an unlimited # of relics in your vault then since it appears to be free?
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