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Offline ZawadxTopic starter

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War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271767#msg1271767
« on: November 29, 2017, 01:47:43 pm »
WAR #11 Round 7
12 armies arrive at the glorious battlefield, each with their weapons drawn and their shields up ready for a battle. Each army is led by a daring General and a multitude of loyal troops, each ready to lay their life on the line for what they fight for. 12 armies will enter the battlefield, but only 1 will leave at the end.
Read the War Rules
Contact Warmasters

News
The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

Gravity, Light and Time have been eliminated.

Earth has fallen below 100 cards in vault! They are now fielding 3 decks.
Deckbuilding
Duel phase has started
Teams have to build decks for all players who are fighting during this round. All team members participate in the planning. Please do not post your decks in public or talk about them in chat.

All decks must be made ready before the timer goes to zero, after which, editing decks is strictly forbidden. Failure to have all of the decks ready will lead to a severe card penalty and/or automatic losses. It is highly recommended that all team members double-check their decks before the duels start.
Duels
Fighting ends!
Duel phase starts when deckbuilding ends.

PM your opponent and try to find a suitable time. Time Zone Converter might be useful here. If you cannot find a time when you both are online, please contact Warmasters--Zawadx and Jenkar--immediately. If the match does not happen, you both lose by default unless one of you is clearly more active and flexible.

Duels are "best-of-five", you must use the deck and mark built during the previous phase, and you cannot make any changes to your deck or mark during the round.

Please make sure to record your duels as shown in the Rules:
(Air Gen) KingKiller 3 - 1 (Water Lt) LordOwner
(Air Sld) KingKiller 3 - 1 (Water Gen) LordOwner
(Air Lt) KingKiller 3 - 1 (Water Sld) (Sub) LordOwner

(SUB indicates that someone else played instead of LordOwner)


Super Event Card




Each team is awarded an amount of 'Scaredgirl Relic's based on their round record so far.
Each team is awarded 1 SG Relic for rounds with 2 wins, 2 for rounds with 1 win and 3 for rounds with 0 wins.
From rounds 1 to 6, 4 win rounds subtract 1 relic from the total.
Teams receiving a bye are considered as having won all byed matches for EC count. So a team with 2-1 record with a bye will get 0 SG relics for that round.
1 SG Relic may be traded for the following perks:

  • Gain 2 Discard tokens
  • Add a soldier boost to any deck (can stack; Alchemist, Mercenary & Tinkerer can only be used once per deck)
  • Play 1 additional match, with salvage but no discard. (can be used multiple times a round)

When using perks, post it in a thread titled "R7-9 Super EC" in secret section. Relic perks must be declared during the deckbuilding phase.
If you wish to use the "Play 1 additional match, with salvage but no discard" perk, you must state the number of matches you will play 2 days before deadline. Deadline for this round: Time is up!
All additional match will be pooled together and matched up on the basis of vault size. If there are an odd number of teams wishing to participate, one of the matches will be randomly cut and the relic refunded. Priority for cutting goes to teams playing more additional matches, then higher vault size. If a team has more than half the matches, then their extra matches are refunded.
When building a deck for each such additional match, you may use the entire vault. The deck plays as a soldier with a boost. Relics and SG Relics may be used to enhance the deck.
The relics for R1-6 are awarded now. Relics will be awarded for R7, R8 and R9 the round after.
The relic award for R1 will be weighted as 2/5, and for R2 by 3/5. Final relic counts will be rounded. So the round 1 record will award 2/5 times the relics of the same record in round 3. These weights are based on the difference between a win and a loss in a given round.
SG Relics are useable for only Rounds 7 to 9. During R10 deckbuilding, teams will have to convert all remaining SG Relics into Discard tokens (2 tokens for 1 SG relic) or Relics (3 tokens for 1 SG relics).
List of SG Relics.






Event Card



Choose one: Play an additional match with 8 salvage but no discards, or gain 1 SG relic (useable from next round)
Post your decision in a thread titled "R7 EC" in secret section within first 2 days of deckbuilding phase. Deadline: Time is up!





Battles
Spoiler for Aether:
Spoiler for Earth:
Spoiler for Fire:


Additional matches being played with no discard:

Spoiler for Hidden:
1:entropy Entropy vs.:air Air*
2:entropy Entropy* vs.:darkness Darkness*
3:entropy Entropy vs.:fire Fire
4:aether Aether* vs.:fire Fire*
5:death Death* vs.:fire Fire

*=EC Match, 8 salvage if win. Others have 6 salvage.

Remember, you may use the entire vault for each EC match.

--------------------------=--------------------------


For this round:
Discards - 24 (15 from deck, 9 from vault)
Salvage - 6


« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:44:19 pm by Zawadx »
When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

Offline moehrpi

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271768#msg1271768
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 02:03:02 pm »
So what happens if, say, three teams want to play an additional match? Does Entropy get a bye?

Offline ZawadxTopic starter

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271769#msg1271769
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 02:12:12 pm »
Some minor edits have been made to the Super EC:

From rounds 1 to 6, 4 win rounds subtract 1 relic from the total.
Teams receiving a bye are considered as having won all byed matches for EC count. So a team with 2-1 record with a bye will get 0 SG relics for that round.
Relic perks must be declared during the deckbuilding phase.
If there are an odd number of teams wishing to participate, one of the matches will be randomly cut and the relic refunded. Priority for cutting goes to teams playing more additional matches, then higher vault size. If a team has more than half the matches, then their extra matches are refunded.
The relics for R1-6 are awarded now. Relics will be awarded for R7, R8 and R9 the round after.
SG Relics are useable for only Rounds 7 to 9. During R10 deckbuilding, teams will have to convert all remaining SG Relics.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 02:17:29 pm by Zawadx »
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Offline iancudorinmarian

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271770#msg1271770
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2017, 02:16:54 pm »
Punishing winning and rewarding losing sounds like a very bad idea to me. This EC is crazy complicated and also unbalanced, and it also creates chaos.

Sideboard 12 cards? Shitload of upgrades? Tons of extra salvage/less discard? Crazy alchemist value?

Tons of extra matches that will extend war even longer?

How is any of this a good idea?

Offline worldwideweb3

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271771#msg1271771
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 02:19:34 pm »
I like it. It’s fun.
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Rightful winner of war #14 - Team Air

Offline ZawadxTopic starter

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271774#msg1271774
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2017, 02:21:34 pm »
Added:

Alchemist, Mercenary & Tinkerer can only be used once per deck.

it also creates chaos.

Says the master of Entropy
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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271775#msg1271775
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2017, 02:24:09 pm »
I like that Super-EC. Good we stop playing every round the same boring decks, versatility makes fun!  8-)
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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271782#msg1271782
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2017, 04:33:04 pm »
I can appreciate where Ian is coming from. However, without the super EC, I’m sure some of the weaker elements may not be able to field functional decks for all their matches. I think this issue has more to do with war rules in general that need to be addressed for future wars, but this EC at least is a temporary fix. Not sure how the EC can be tweaked to make it more balanced for the stronger teams.

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271784#msg1271784
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2017, 05:03:35 pm »
I like the EC because it advantages the teams which are doing kinda shit, like fire!

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271788#msg1271788
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 06:26:38 pm »
Some minor edits have been made to the Super EC:

From rounds 1 to 6, 4 win rounds subtract 1 relic from the total.
Teams receiving a bye are considered as having won all byed matches for EC count. So a team with 2-1 record with a bye will get 0 SG relics for that round.
Relic perks must be declared during the deckbuilding phase.
If there are an odd number of teams wishing to participate, one of the matches will be randomly cut and the relic refunded. Priority for cutting goes to teams playing more additional matches, then higher vault size. If a team has more than half the matches, then their extra matches are refunded.
The relics for R1-6 are awarded now. Relics will be awarded for R7, R8 and R9 the round after.
SG Relics are useable for only Rounds 7 to 9. During R10 deckbuilding, teams will have to convert all remaining SG Relics.

I don't agree with 4-0 subtracting a relic.
At this point, we would have really been better off throuwing a match round 1 just to not go 4-0.
I liked this event card better before the edit.
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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271789#msg1271789
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 07:22:32 pm »
Can't ship with the idea of losing being rewarded and winning being punished. There was a lot of dispute over "winning being punished" in the past and rules have evolved in an attempt to fix that. Because we ended up with a team or two having to play gazillion more matches and have a better win rate than the final winner of the event. Which never really happens in an esport / real competition.
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Offline ZawadxTopic starter

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Re: War #11 - Round 7 https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=65405.msg1271792#msg1271792
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 07:35:48 pm »
I made a mistake.

So this EC's idea and perks was worked out well before war began, and I had a rough outline of everything by R5. But one thing my outline didn't account for was teams playing less than 4 matches. I just had a nicely fitting linear equation for the relic award, with weights based on win vs loss significance in a round. But today when I had to type up the entire wording of the EC, I rushed and missed details (many of which are there in that edit). I also simplified the relic awarding scheme, but that meant letting go of the weighting. But for perfect balance, I'm going to add it in:

The relic award for R1 will be weighted as 2/5, and for R2 by 3/5. Final relic counts will be rounded. So the round 1 record will award 2/5 times the relics of the same record in round 3. These weights are based on the difference between a win and a loss in a given round.

I'm really sorry for not making this change earlier. I understand that I might not have even made this change unless it was heavily discussed, and that might send the wrong message that complaining will get you stuff. But please, don't take this the wrong way. I had this balance in mind for a long time, and I'm simply implementing it because I believe it makes for the best version of the EC possible. That is the policy I have followed elsewhere too.

On another note, there might be confusion about the extra match assignments, specifically the mention of vault size:

Quote
All additional match will be pooled together and matched up on the basis of vault size. If there are an odd number of teams wishing to participate, one of the matches will be randomly cut and the relic refunded. Priority for cutting goes to teams playing more additional matches, then higher vault size. If a team has more than half the matches, then their extra matches are refunded.

The first rule means that teams with similar vault sizes will be matched with each other. The priority for cutting means that among teams playing the highest number of matches, the one with most cards i.e. best position will not be allowed to play.

Can't ship with the idea of losing being rewarded and winning being punished. There was a lot of dispute over "winning being punished" in the past and rules have evolved in an attempt to fix that. Because we ended up with a team or two having to play gazillion more matches and have a better win rate than the final winner of the event. Which never really happens in an esport / real competition.

Can't ship with the idea of breaking even each round and still being on a losing track, or one game in R4 potentially eliminating you from competing at all. There was a flaw with the discard intensity and the cutoffs, and potentially in other key parts of war too. That is WM's fault. But Super ECs were always intended to help fix war, and this is what I'm trying to do. If this doesn't make the winning teams happy about not continuing on the win train, then I've done a good job.

But if it makes the winning team unhappy about bad strategic decisions or difficulty/design issues, then we should talk.
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