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Offline ddevans96Topic starter

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War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg433051#msg433051
« on: November 30, 2011, 11:58:53 pm »
This topic is for teams to discuss why they lost and educate people in future wars so they don't make similar mistakes. It is also for people still in war and people outside of war to congratulate and console the fallen teams.

Final Standings:
    :death Team Death:light Team Light:darkness Team Darkness:time Team Time:fire Team Fire:entropy Team Entropy:earth Team Earth:gravity Team Gravity:aether Team Aether:air Team Air:water Team Water:life Team Life:underworld Team Underworld
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Offline Higurashi

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg433056#msg433056
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 12:02:55 am »
Congrats!
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Offline ak65ala

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg433226#msg433226
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 05:13:46 am »
Former Lt. of Team Life.

I do not like seeing my team, or any team, die by inactivity.  Every sword should fight to the bitter end.  Those who don't could be deemed more worthless than those slain. 

I personally apologize to the participants and administration staff of this event.  You have all put too much into this event to have me not give it my all.  To the staff in particular, you are doing an amazing job here.  This forum is both an enjoyable place to spend countless hours and events I always have to look forward towards. 

 :life

Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg433405#msg433405
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 06:34:02 pm »
I'm sorry to go out like this too, but oh well. It's always like this: losing teams lose steam and end up crushed by their own stress. We might have pulled out a win with Frogtal, went to another round and maybe won once more here thanks to the Event making the Monks playable again... but it's unlikely. Very very VERY unlikely. Still, sucks to be at the bottom of the ladder. I'll try harder next time.
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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg436873#msg436873
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2011, 12:56:30 am »
I really really enjoyed War. I was going to write a mega-long response, but then realised, I didn't have the patience or wisdom, but I will just post some of my thoughts.


I really love the auction. Going back, you can see players you might have missed, and you think about the players you did choose. Some players were under/over valued, thats just how it works, and gives lots of time for good early strategy, which sets up for the rest of the game. Never change this.

Propaganda. No offense intended, but Team Air got robbed. Death might have been debateable (I would go for ours 99 times out of 100 still, but personal preference), but there was no way that Darkness' even came close. I've written some sort of speech for team Air the last 3 wars (war 2 was my best I think, got the most praise), and none of them got the place they deserved.

Our round 3 was a massive screw up, mostly on our side, but that doesn't change the fact that we had Zero way of knowing that the deck we submitted was anything other than legal when the vault tool never said anything opposite.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c3 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c9 5c9 5c5 5c5 5c5 5l8 5l8 5mq 5mq 5lm 5lm 5lm 7n2 7n2 7n2 7k5 7k5 7k5 8pq


Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5of 5of 5on 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61u 61u 621 621 621 621 621 7mv 7mv 7mv 8pu

was our ideal match up, and I just feel sad that that never happened, because, let's be honest here :) - we had this match in the bag. Quinting to prevent buffs/endowing 4ever!!!!
I think that things like that should be locked in the future, so we can't screw ourselves over without realising it like that again, it was an extremely depressing sight to walk in and find we had been penalised, mixed up and spat out after I had triple checked the vault and planned everything out so much, especially when we had them countered so hard like that. (My first round really taking control of the team, 1 win, thanks to Perve being Perve, 7 losses. Wooo)

^Although, in my 3 - 2 loss to Mith, I should have continued with one desync, us both playing against AI, I had that one in the bag, I just thought that I would have all others too, I even had a screenshot where it gave the 'Your opponent has Left the game notice', although I failed and took a new screenshot next game. I should never be confident again lol.

We became a little inactive, mostly because I couldn't have everone play. I tried to rotate players, but I really would have liked for a few players to get more game time, 2-3 matches doesn't really feel like a full War.

Like everyone else, I have a huge issue with the 0 card salvage, I really like that aspect of War. Not so much with stragetic subbing, we did it once, we just failed beause we didn't win the game anyway. (Disc/BH Hate)

I found the vault tool was much more single playered, it was great and efficient, but not really promoting of team discussion (except that one chat session we had on it)


I am a huge supporter of event cards, I love them all, even when they don't help us at all. (Round 3, net bonus, 0) it makes War less of a formula - wait for matchups, build decks, play decks, salvage, next round. If it screws with things, ah well. Mess up the war whenever you can, with things like event cards, disadvantaged will always be louder, but I am sure there are many people like me who support them the whole way.



This was my first War, so I can't really compare the legnth to anything, although I understand the obvious issue of balancing giving all players a shot and war legnth.


Oh, and sportsmanship awards always seemed a little weird to me - It might just end up being a popularity contest, or not, I just think that rewarding sportsmanship is like giving a prize to people who donate or do charity. :/



Edit: This was actually meant for the feedback section. In our voices of the fallen, I would have said, go back in time and remember to upgrade the 3 bonewalls in Blooms deck like I was reminded to.

Offline Jenkar

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg436944#msg436944
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2011, 07:06:44 am »
I think that things like that should be locked in the future, so we can't screw ourselves over without realising it like that again
Just a note : we sadly can't lock single cells.
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Offline ak65ala

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg438302#msg438302
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 08:35:50 pm »
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c3 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c9 5c9 5c5 5c5 5c5 5l8 5l8 5mq 5mq 5lm 5lm 5lm 7n2 7n2 7n2 7k5 7k5 7k5 8pq


Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5of 5of 5on 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 5pu 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61u 61u 621 621 621 621 621 7mv 7mv 7mv 8pu

was our ideal match up, and I just feel sad that that never happened, because, let's be honest here :) - we had this match in the bag. Quinting to prevent buffs/endowing 4ever!!!!
Confusion.

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32954.0.html (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32954.0.html)

These decks from you are different... did you make two awesome counters against us... or am I just missing something  :-\

To make this thread more of an awesome 'voices of the fallen' quality, I find it interesting the teams out thus far.  We are all normally considered 'weak' teams, and aether.  Are we weak due to poor leadership, or because of our element's abilities.... hmmmmm.....

Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg438305#msg438305
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 08:49:11 pm »
Air ain't weak.
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

Offline ak65ala

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg438317#msg438317
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 09:22:45 pm »
Air ain't weak.
TeamWar 1War 2War 3War 4AverageWin/LossPercentage
:life Life12 (1/11)3 (23/30)12 (22/27)12 (9/19)9.7555/8738.7%
:water Water11 (2/10)13 (13/28)11 (26/28)11 (12/20)11.553/8638.1%
:air Air10 (3/10)2 (30/29)9 (17/25)10 (16/21)7.7566/8543.7%
:aether Aether9 (4/12)5 (25/29)3 (58/32)9 (23/21)6.5110/9453.9%
:underworld UW - 7 (8/9)4 (16/13)13 (4/11)828/3345.9%
Numbers speak louder than words...

Offline Jenkar

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg438320#msg438320
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 09:33:53 pm »
Congrats!
I find this very ironic now.
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Offline Higurashi

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg438544#msg438544
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 05:50:49 am »
It's not. It's a joke based on ddevans post.

Anyone who has grasped the concept and mechanics of War will have realised the final standings don't mean anything; they've always been misleading. Winrate stats, on the other hand, are very useful. We're 5th in that, as usual staying in the top 5. I'd like to see you match that in any War, Jenk ;>

In this War, the late rounds were unfortunately completely decided by who you face. Earth keeps running into Darkness, which is ridiculous. Similarly, we ran into the only deck we couldn't possibly beat in Round 9, whereas some Teams will keep getting good matchups. RNG is certainly given more power in this.

Hm.. "educate people in future wars so they don't make similar mistakes".. what cost us the most this time around was play mistakes (apart from losing favourable matchups, which goes for all teams). We lost no less than five games due to play mistakes, and this happening in Round 8 is what ultimately left us with no answer to Poisondial in Round 9. Sure, we could've gotten any other opponent, and Time might not have suffered as much for sending Poisondial on us (they lost their other two matches), but fact remains we got our options taken away by unnecessary losses.

Play mistakes are usually the cause of stress. Some players have the ability to develop during stressful situations and actually perform better, but sooner or later someone is going to make a mistake. Sometimes that mistake is devastating, leading not only to losing an entire match, but also to losing your most powerful deck.
I would advise teams to go through the strategy needed for an opponent, and even practise the situation in real-time. It's a small time-investment that can make a huge difference.

You may be causing a player stress by giving them a complex deck they're not used to playing, and in these cases you -have to- give them the chance to practise. Preferably a lot. Some Teams will often field complex decks in War every time, and in these cases you accept the larger impact of players keeping their cool, as well as making all the matches more exciting for the involved :>
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Offline Avenger

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Re: War #4 - Voices of the Fallen http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=34336.msg438567#msg438567
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 07:49:48 am »
Thanks, Higs, it really helps. Our winrate is 2nd, hurrah. Now, it would be interesting to see fire as winner who rarely won, but won all important battles.

 

anything
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