Post by: Sevs on March 12, 2012, 02:43:36 pm
The day before trials signups, I had gotten back into platinum farming for some electrum to finish upping the earth element and asked around for a different deck. Omega had shared a deck code with me with i quickly misplaced. lol But using what he had told me about SoSac and SoD i threw this together. Probably extremely extremely close to what he gave me give or take a few shards and arsenic. I figured he had wanted to keep it secret so I didn't post anything. Later when I saw that Poison Dials[Upped][Death][Time][Plat][FG] (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36792.0.html) was posted, I figured i should post my version under his thread since it wasn't really a secret anymore. And to be honest I am only making this topic to make it easier to express how good this version is for FG's and Platinum by showing stats.
Upgrade Order:
Sundials --> SoSac --> Poisons --> Bone Pillars --> Arsenic --> SoD
The first time I tried this I proceeded to go on a 15 game win streak, and over the course of 3 weeks playing <1 hour a day i went up 80k score. Pretty ridiculous. When Xeno's Game Simulator (http://xenocidius.allalla.com/simulator/) came out i decided to run it against FG's and was kinda shocked about the consistant 78-82% winrate through about 2000 games (200 games at a time)And with the AI playing, I figured it could only do better right? wrong. Something is up with the simulator, but still a great deck
-No PC equals 18 turns of stalling. + any turns where potential damage will not knock you down below 40HP
- Even if damage has not hit 20 playing SoSac with >10 damage still slows down damage.
- SoSac makes the opponent not play creatures and burrow everything. This can be used 3 ways.
- Make the AI discard cards such as Miracle and prevent them from drawing it in the first place.
- Can be used to limit the amount of creatures are on the field for feral bond gods.
- Makes gods such as Rainbow and Seism to burrow graboids. which essentially reduce damage done permanantly. Helps surviving gaps in stalling.
- Steal shouldn't really count as PC because the stalling effect still stays.
- Even if damage has not hit 20 playing SoSac with >10 damage still slows down damage.
- SoSac makes the opponent not play creatures and burrow everything. This can be used 3 ways.
- Make the AI discard cards such as Miracle and prevent them from drawing it in the first place.
- Can be used to limit the amount of creatures are on the field for feral bond gods.
- Makes gods such as Rainbow and Seism to burrow graboids. which essentially reduce damage done permanantly. Helps surviving gaps in stalling.
- Steal shouldn't really count as PC because the stalling effect still stays.
Akebono - Easy - no Healing SoF hurts the sundial part of the stall but damage is high enough that SoSac should be fine stalling.
Chaos Lord - Easy - Watch drawing cards as arsenic will not add poison after diss shield comes.
Dark Matter - Easy - Even with BH denial, no Healing no PC = easy win.
Decay - Hard - play all opening towers. and anything you can play from that quanta. once he locks you down, keep pillars in hand discarding now useless SoD once you have 2 towers play them both to play some sort of damage. watch out for siphons.
Destiny - Easy - no PC no Healing The only issue with Destiny is her not getting enough damage from fate eggs.
Divine Glory - Hard - Miracles are just hard to bypass.
Dream Catcher - Medium - No Healing. Sundials are semi useless use them to draw early game because once BE comes you have to 1+x permanants to stall a turn where x is the number of BE'd creatures. on top of all that you need to worry about her getting enough damage.
Elidnis - Medium - No PC but Feral Bonds Use sundials as quick as you can to draw. Usually gets a slow start but once she gets ~4 creatures on the board you should be able to chain. SoSac to prevent more feral bonds or creatures.
Eternal Phoenix - Medium - No healing lots of explosions. Fractal, Firebolt, lightning, Ruby Dragons. Burst damage is the name of the game. Keep an SoD if you can to prevent any surprise damage to knock you below 40HP. with no healing always play it safe with SoSac.
Ferox - Impossible - So much healing
Fire Queen - Hard - her draws are terrible sometimes, draw as quick as you can with sundials, stalling wont be your issue here. if she gets 2 owls eyes before a firefly queen play sosac to prevent the spawning of creatures. If she gets a firefly queen out, and a bond or 2 just quit.
Gemini - Easy - no PC no Healing. watch out for mass TU's but should be a walkover every time.
Graviton - Easy - No healing limited PC(only 4 explosions). Growth creatures do not fare well against SoSac. and with almost no burst damage, you know exactly what is coming every turn.
Hecate - Hard - Liquid shadow + Vamp dagger is hard to overcome. Sundials stop vampiric healing so try to save a few to chain late game.
Hermes - Easy - lolwut? Hermes easy? once again growth creatures don't fare well against SoSac. will most likely waste explosions on towers when his hand gets full. watch out for firebolts and lots of lava golems.
Incarnate - Hard - Plan of attack would be to rush as much poison as possible, chain SoSac early to limit the # of vampires then chain sundial to make vampiric healing = 0.
Jezebel - Medium - If she gets a dark nymph you will probably lose. if she doesn't you win. Dont draw too much because vamp dagger does heal quite a bit.
Lionheart - Easy - No PC no Healing no burst damage potential...
Miracle - Impossible - WTFBBQ if you chain SoSac's for while you might be able get her to discard miracle because of its high cost. she top decks miracles like a boss.
Morte - Medium - No PC Rol's lead to miracle. if you can prevent miracle by strategically playing SoSac to allow archangel play yet limit RoL play.
Neptune - Easy - No Healing no PC, her only issue if shockwaves clog her hand and she gets terrible starts. Essentially she is so bad she is good.
Obliterator - Easy - no healing limited PC Slow damage potential and if pulvy gets played play 2 perms a turn to stall.
Octane - Hard - No healing some PC hope he gets >=2 eagle's eyes on the field to fuel your SoSac shield. if you let the SoSac chain drop you lose so time it right.
Osiris - Easy - no Healing no burst damage. watch catapult damage
Paradox - Medium - No PC Miracles. Chain SoSac for a while to force discards or limit drawing. you can fight through 1 miracle.
Rainbow - Medium - Lots of PC Miracle. Damage isnt an issue and SoSac clogs her hand terribly, so dont be surprised when miracle isnt there when the HP gets low.
Scorpio - Easy - No PC 2 purifies - Arsenic alone gets the job done. save a few poisons in hand to counteract purify if it ever comes.
Seism - Easy - No PC Stone Skin. Do not draw with sundials. Use SoSac to burrow shriekers to limit damage, and you can last through up to 3-4 Stone skins.
Serket - Easy - No PC no Healing chain a few sundials at the start the limit the poison damage.
Chaos Lord - Easy - Watch drawing cards as arsenic will not add poison after diss shield comes.
Dark Matter - Easy - Even with BH denial, no Healing no PC = easy win.
Decay - Hard - play all opening towers. and anything you can play from that quanta. once he locks you down, keep pillars in hand discarding now useless SoD once you have 2 towers play them both to play some sort of damage. watch out for siphons.
Destiny - Easy - no PC no Healing The only issue with Destiny is her not getting enough damage from fate eggs.
Divine Glory - Hard - Miracles are just hard to bypass.
Dream Catcher - Medium - No Healing. Sundials are semi useless use them to draw early game because once BE comes you have to 1+x permanants to stall a turn where x is the number of BE'd creatures. on top of all that you need to worry about her getting enough damage.
Elidnis - Medium - No PC but Feral Bonds Use sundials as quick as you can to draw. Usually gets a slow start but once she gets ~4 creatures on the board you should be able to chain. SoSac to prevent more feral bonds or creatures.
Eternal Phoenix - Medium - No healing lots of explosions. Fractal, Firebolt, lightning, Ruby Dragons. Burst damage is the name of the game. Keep an SoD if you can to prevent any surprise damage to knock you below 40HP. with no healing always play it safe with SoSac.
Ferox - Impossible - So much healing
Fire Queen - Hard - her draws are terrible sometimes, draw as quick as you can with sundials, stalling wont be your issue here. if she gets 2 owls eyes before a firefly queen play sosac to prevent the spawning of creatures. If she gets a firefly queen out, and a bond or 2 just quit.
Gemini - Easy - no PC no Healing. watch out for mass TU's but should be a walkover every time.
Graviton - Easy - No healing limited PC(only 4 explosions). Growth creatures do not fare well against SoSac. and with almost no burst damage, you know exactly what is coming every turn.
Hecate - Hard - Liquid shadow + Vamp dagger is hard to overcome. Sundials stop vampiric healing so try to save a few to chain late game.
Hermes - Easy - lolwut? Hermes easy? once again growth creatures don't fare well against SoSac. will most likely waste explosions on towers when his hand gets full. watch out for firebolts and lots of lava golems.
Incarnate - Hard - Plan of attack would be to rush as much poison as possible, chain SoSac early to limit the # of vampires then chain sundial to make vampiric healing = 0.
Jezebel - Medium - If she gets a dark nymph you will probably lose. if she doesn't you win. Dont draw too much because vamp dagger does heal quite a bit.
Lionheart - Easy - No PC no Healing no burst damage potential...
Miracle - Impossible - WTFBBQ if you chain SoSac's for while you might be able get her to discard miracle because of its high cost. she top decks miracles like a boss.
Morte - Medium - No PC Rol's lead to miracle. if you can prevent miracle by strategically playing SoSac to allow archangel play yet limit RoL play.
Neptune - Easy - No Healing no PC, her only issue if shockwaves clog her hand and she gets terrible starts. Essentially she is so bad she is good.
Obliterator - Easy - no healing limited PC Slow damage potential and if pulvy gets played play 2 perms a turn to stall.
Octane - Hard - No healing some PC hope he gets >=2 eagle's eyes on the field to fuel your SoSac shield. if you let the SoSac chain drop you lose so time it right.
Osiris - Easy - no Healing no burst damage. watch catapult damage
Paradox - Medium - No PC Miracles. Chain SoSac for a while to force discards or limit drawing. you can fight through 1 miracle.
Rainbow - Medium - Lots of PC Miracle. Damage isnt an issue and SoSac clogs her hand terribly, so dont be surprised when miracle isnt there when the HP gets low.
Scorpio - Easy - No PC 2 purifies - Arsenic alone gets the job done. save a few poisons in hand to counteract purify if it ever comes.
Seism - Easy - No PC Stone Skin. Do not draw with sundials. Use SoSac to burrow shriekers to limit damage, and you can last through up to 3-4 Stone skins.
Serket - Easy - No PC no Healing chain a few sundials at the start the limit the poison damage.
| deck | Poison Dials SoSac |
| players | Sevs |
| version | 1.293 | win-rate | 70.35% | ||
| $ track ? | enabled | win-rate (n) | 69.47% | ||
| games | 172 | Score/h | 1777 | ||
| win-loss-(EM) | 121-51-(0) | Score/h (n) | 1741 | ||
| time (h:m:s) | 09:36:40 | FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | 8243 | ||
| min/game | 03:21 | FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | 8056 |
| score/h | FGei(c) | Statmasta™realtec | wins | losses | skips | EM/Wins |
| 3626 2860 2125 -694 2970 -599 1244 1194 2881 -490 108 3651 3413 -47 3110 -152 1758 3443 -434 1320 2542 2042 752 3044 2064 2063 2459 2517 3210 | 16813 10488 10429 -694 12030 -599 7241 4538 14142 -490 2034 14393 13046 2324 10462 1495 8694 13180 -434 5896 13249 10360 9697 13915 8267 7340 8075 10504 14832 | Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket | 10 5 6 7 6 3 4 2 5 6 1 6 1 4 5 4 6 8 3 7 3 5 4 5 5 | 5 7 1 3 5 7 3 4 2 5 2 2 2 1 1 1 | | |
Skip Stats
| deck | Poison Dials SoSac |
| players | Sevs |
| version | 1.293 | win-rate | 68.02% | ||
| $ track ? | enabled | win-rate (n) | 67.15% | ||
| games | 172 | Score/h | 2268 | ||
| win-loss-(EM) | 117-55-(0) | Score/h (n) | 2246 | ||
| time (h:m:s) | 07:17:20 | FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | 10485 | ||
| min/game | 02:33 | FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | 10360 |
| score/h | FGei(c) | Statmasta™realtec | wins | losses | skips | EM/Wins |
| 3626 2860 2125 -21600 2970 -21600 1244 1194 2881 -21600 -21600 3651 3413 -21600 3110 -21600 1758 3443 -21600 1320 2542 2042 752 3044 2064 2063 2459 2517 3210 | 16813 10488 10429 -21600 12030 -21600 7241 4538 14142 -21600 -21600 14393 13046 -21600 10462 -21600 8694 13180 -21600 5896 13249 10360 9697 13915 8267 7340 8075 10504 14832 | Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket | 10 5 6 7 6 3 4 5 6 6 4 5 4 6 8 3 7 3 5 4 5 5 | 1 3 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 | 5 7 5 9 4 5 5 | |
Post by: Gandora on March 12, 2012, 04:05:34 pm
Too bad I still don't have 6 SoSac...
*goes for shard farming*
Post by: Absol on March 12, 2012, 04:26:23 pm
How well will it do unupped? Also what's the upping priority?
Post by: Vineroz on March 12, 2012, 04:36:17 pm
and I still don't see how you can beat Octane twice, Sevs. o.O
Post by: Mathematistic on March 12, 2012, 05:19:25 pm
However, I would like to know whether this or SPlat remains superior in Plat farming (partially because it's all that I care now lol).
Post by: Sevs on March 12, 2012, 07:42:35 pm
I have been playing this deck since Higs posted a screenshot in chat. It was her last turn, and the field pretty much shows what is in her whole deck. I figured out the exact number of the cards in no time (which is a bit different from this :) ), and grind plat and FG like crazy. This deck at least bring me half of my score (~200k) in the past few months, and it is both a bit sad and glad to see that it is finally revealed. :)Yea if you read the origin spoiler, I only posted it because someone else posted a very similar version. And octane really isn't that bad. with 2 owls eye on the field, you are losing 6 HP per turn and have protection from unstable gas. SoD gives you 24 health so 2 SoSa and an SoD gives you 4 turns of survival.
and I still don't see how you can beat Octane twice, Sevs. o.O
Post by: mesaprotector on March 12, 2012, 10:07:54 pm
Now quickly, stop posting on this thread so it gets buried :P
Post by: fbparis on March 16, 2012, 09:17:17 am
Edit: for your missing stats, I faced 2 times Chaos Lord and won 2 times (and both EM :D)
Post by: wittgenstein on March 16, 2012, 06:59:44 pm
The deck simply looks phenomenal. Can't wait to have it built. :)
Post by: Belligerence on March 16, 2012, 07:58:30 pm
Post by: ralouf on March 17, 2012, 11:56:59 am
5/0
2 EM
Skip: Ferox (3)
Killed rainbow :D
Post by: zhangvict on March 17, 2012, 12:17:14 pm
Maybe you could have asked either animation or omgreaper to post your stats in their OP's?
Post by: furballdn on March 18, 2012, 03:48:48 am
Post by: burpcow on March 18, 2012, 04:21:25 am
Post by: Chapuz on March 18, 2012, 01:40:02 pm
I really like the deck and fully appreciate your effort in collecting lots of stats to show it's effectiveness, but isn't making a new topic is a little redundant with http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36792.0.html already exisitng? The only difference is that you subtracted one arsenic and added one more SoD, which is only ever useful for plat SoSac decks and not FG's. Omgreaper was already upset animation posted poision dials seperate from his topic, why make another one?That's true, now we have 3 Poison Dials threads. This decks are already used a lot in Arena, FGs and Leagues.
Maybe you could have asked either animation or omgreaper to post your stats in their OP's?
Post by: kimham8a on March 18, 2012, 05:08:13 pm
Post by: Sevs on March 18, 2012, 06:47:52 pm
If you read the "Origin Spoiler" you might be able to answer some of that. I claim no credit for the original idea as you see Vineroz has been using it as well as Higurashi. There are probably much more people that I don't know using it as well. I received approval to post a new thread from omegareaper7, The reason he wasn't happy about the other topic, is credit was never given.I really like the deck and fully appreciate your effort in collecting lots of stats to show it's effectiveness, but isn't making a new topic is a little redundant with http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,36792.0.html already exisitng? The only difference is that you subtracted one arsenic and added one more SoD, which is only ever useful for plat SoSac decks and not FG's. Omgreaper was already upset animation posted poision dials seperate from his topic, why make another one?That's true, now we have 3 Poison Dials threads. This decks are already used a lot in Arena, FGs and Leagues.
Maybe you could have asked either animation or omgreaper to post your stats in their OP's?
I started this thread because this variation of omegareapers deck might be one of the best or the best FG farmer in the game. And having to keep asking another player to keep updating an OP with stuff he isn't involved in is kinda weird. I might have asked AnimationX to do that. but he hasnt logged in, in over 2 weeks. What is the harm of actually making a thread about a deck that might not be original but gives play tips on certain gods and shows its power through stats?
Post by: furballdn on March 18, 2012, 10:14:58 pm
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on March 18, 2012, 11:07:22 pm
Quote
for FG's I would probably recommend +1 arsenic for either one of the shards.Aren't you testing this against FGs? So why 2 arsenics?
Post by: darkrobe on March 18, 2012, 11:14:42 pm
course i didnt have all the shards. so you could say mine was an incomplete version of this. maybe ill go back and try this deck again now that i have 6 SoSa
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 19, 2012, 02:05:40 am
Post by: Vineroz on March 19, 2012, 02:11:48 am
Suggested upping order?Dials are a must, obviously. Next I'd say poison and then SoSac. Both of them are crucial i.e. the deck won't really work with them unupped. Then it would be Bone Towers, which also helps a lot. Last is Arsenics and SoDs.
Obtain these before attempting to use the deck:
6 Sundial
6 Poison
3 SoSac
Then, upgrading the following helps a lot:
5 Bone Tower
3 SoSac
2 Bone Tower
Now your deck is good to go. Upgrade the following to complete the deck:
2 SoD
2 Arsenic
1 SoD
Post by: EndGameSwag on March 19, 2012, 11:49:28 am
Post by: mesaprotector on March 19, 2012, 02:35:04 pm
Actually, the deck works alright with unupped poisons (I only even now have 3 upped). I'd even suggest upping towers before poisons, because there have been situations (especially against the gods with quanta control), where it took a while to even get 2 :death , unless you saved up towers. You have to be a little more careful about decking out, but that's usually only a problem against the gods you'd lose to anyway.Suggested upping order?Dials are a must, obviously. Next I'd say poison and then SoSac. Both of them are crucial i.e. the deck won't really work with them unupped. Then it would be Bone Towers, which also helps a lot. Last is Arsenics and SoDs.
Post by: kimham8a on March 20, 2012, 02:31:14 am
Post by: Belligerence on March 20, 2012, 03:21:11 am
i only have 3 upped sundial so i added 3 upped sod and it still seems to work fine.You're not lacking on stalling/drawing power without them?
Post by: BunKeR on March 20, 2012, 05:14:01 am
I'm farming for my 5th and 6th SoSac .
Post by: The Chosen One on March 20, 2012, 08:34:57 pm
Post by: kimham8a on March 20, 2012, 10:12:32 pm
Nope. Just tried two game test and beat Obliterator and Graviton, who both have plenty PC, with 220 hp left. Maybe it's because I use four unupped poisons. Btw, I also have no towers.i only have 3 upped sundial so i added 3 upped sod and it still seems to work fine.You're not lacking on stalling/drawing power without them?
Post by: Sevs on April 01, 2012, 09:47:41 am
Post by: zaen on April 02, 2012, 01:18:37 am
Post by: BunKeR on April 02, 2012, 07:25:54 pm
Trainer test is awesome .Finally have this list and am working on upping the SoD's [everything else is upped] .
I'm farming for my 5th and 6th SoSac .
172 hp Em's are awesome .
Thanks Sevs!
+rep
Edit : Fully upped now , actually got 3 spins in 5 games to get the Electrum needed .
Post by: furballdn on April 05, 2012, 07:34:57 am
Post by: burpcow on April 05, 2012, 02:35:09 pm
Post by: The Chosen One on April 05, 2012, 04:36:05 pm
Post by: Max Fire on April 13, 2012, 10:53:17 am
For me it is the most reliable deck for gold league.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 13, 2012, 09:11:15 pm
Post by: Sevs on April 13, 2012, 09:43:35 pm
How would a version of this work against PvP?
I would say imagine not bad but i would probably add more SoD and use less SoSac
Post by: MasterN on May 13, 2012, 10:55:07 pm
... let's see how long it takes until SoSac is nerved... ...again^^
Against some FGs i noticed, that the poison isn't coming fast enough. Replaced a SoD with another Arsenic.
2 Deckouts in the past 40 games.
so...
Put in 2 Sanctuarys. Kicks off 4 HP @ EoT while SoSac is active, but poison strikes enemy first, so if you finish your final turn with 100% HP, you'll get your bonus.
In addition it possibly gives 2 additional turns.
But i have to test it out with a couple more games first.
Post by: sorfimmer on May 22, 2012, 01:27:50 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 30, 2012, 03:04:01 am
Also, how the bloody hell did you beat Elidnis THREE times with this? When discussing with mesaprotector, I figured sosa dials should beat any FG without feral bonds or miracles, but that those would prove serious problems. I've managed to do alright against even miracle-using gods, and other than once vs hecate, I've never lost in 27 games to an FG without one of bonds or miracles.
This is an example of what keeps happening with Elidnis. (it also happened with fire queen, only worse, since queens breed; I haven't seen ferox yet, but it'll be even worse than elidnis, since ferox has more creatures) I locked him down to 3 creatures, but he's still got enough bonds I'll never win even with a near-perfect draw. Even 5-6 healing/turn is enough that you can't win in time, so unless Elidnis got 0 bonds in 3 games, I don't really see how it could be done :p
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7509/elidnis.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/elidnis.jpg/)
It's definitely a nice deck, though, no question. I'm just unsure whether it's really better than instosis (which is probably like 70% win rate at least, though I haven't crunched the numbers) or Splat. SPlat seems better to me in most cases except against dark matter, which is basically an instant loss for splat, but sosa dials should still have a chance.
Post by: mesaprotector on May 30, 2012, 04:49:36 am
Here's a fairly typical game (played in trainer) in which she played 2 heals, a staff and 3 bonds, but I just barely won:
(http://i.imgur.com/OVFJK.png)
Also, Octane and Incarnate are quite capable of beating this deck as well.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on May 30, 2012, 05:02:49 am
Chaos lord: 3 win (easy)
Dark Matter: 1 win (medium; black holes are a pain but can be overcome)
Destiny: 1 Win (easy)
Divine Glory: 1 loss (virtually impossible)
Elidnis: 3 losses (very hard)
Eternal Phoenix: 3 win (fairly easy)
Ferox: 1 loss (very hard)
Fire Queen: 1 loss (very hard)
Gemini: 1 win 1 loss (pretty easy; loss was misplay; didn't count on like 5 PUs coming :p)
Graviton: 1 win (pretty easy)
Hecate: 1 win 3 loss (hard; dials vs vampire is the only chance to beat the healing)
Jezebel: 2 loss (hard; early dark nymph and vamp spam both times; I'd think grav or light nymphs would be extremely hard to beat, too)
Lionheart: 2 wins (easy)
Morte: 1 win (medium; bone wall blocking arsenic made it tougher)
Neptune: 4 wins (easy, though I can never manage to EM due to his low damage output into SoSa)
Obliterator: 1 win (easy, but he didn't get pulvy, probably still pretty easy though)
Osiris: 2 wins (easy)
Paradox: 2 wins 1 loss (win if he discards miracle, lose otherwise)
Rainbow: 1 win (he discarded his miracles :p same as paradox)
Serket: 1 win (easy; it helped he adreanlined his 0/3 deathstalkers before everything else :p)
All others: haven't played yet. Expecting Akebono, Hermes, Octane to be easy, Incarnate to be medium/hard (bone wall + vamps) Seism to be tough (quicksand), Miracle to be really tough (miracles). Decay's probably really tough, too, though if you got lots of poisons and arse early I could see it happening. Scorpio will be easy unless he gets purify. Not sure about dream catcher; probably tough though.
As I figured, the losses are against healing, and basically everything else is a win. Conversely, Instosis is basically a win against non-PC decks, and struggles with PC/quanta denial.
Post by: thabeowolf on May 30, 2012, 02:51:30 pm
I won 4 Quicksands, a Basalt Dragon and a Elite Graboid playing against him.
Decay is tough but doable. Again, hold a few towers in your hand. Decay depends on your quanta to play his devourers.
I play this deck with a smile every day!
Post by: Gandora on May 30, 2012, 02:56:16 pm
It often happens to me that I don't draw any pillars or that they get immediately destroyed.
So I'm stuck with cards I can't play and Sundials which would be a waste to play that early.
Since with SoSac and Sundial you have 18 Turns of Protection You should only get to wait until you have 18 cards.
But because of SoD and SoSac you can sometimes make a Sundial Break.
However, I keep my :death mark, I was just wondering what others think about it. Also, I don't think that
to draw in a 30 card deck which builds poison up rather slowly is to be recommended.
Post by: Chapuz on May 30, 2012, 03:05:56 pm
I was just wondering, how useful is it to use a :light mark?:light mark can give you sundial draws... that's good.
It often happens to me that I don't draw any pillars or that they get immediately destroyed.
So I'm stuck with cards I can't play and Sundials which would be a waste to play that early.
Since with SoSac and Sundial you have 18 Turns of Protection You should only get to wait until you have 18 cards.
But because of SoD and SoSac you can sometimes make a Sundial Break.
However, I keep my :death mark, I was just wondering what others think about it. Also, I don't think that
to draw in a 30 card deck which builds poison up rather slowly is to be recommended.
Post by: thabeowolf on May 30, 2012, 05:42:33 pm
Post by: TheFallenHero94 on July 06, 2012, 03:01:15 am
Post by: Homergande on July 11, 2012, 07:00:27 pm
for example is this arena deck nice too
its better for a discord BH deck
Post by: The Chosen One on July 24, 2012, 11:55:22 pm
i think this is the best deck ever :d
for example is this arena deck nice too
its better for a discord BH deck
why sanctuary? i prefer shard of bravery
Post by: kimham8a on July 25, 2012, 04:01:36 am
i think this is the best deck ever :d
for example is this arena deck nice too
its better for a discord BH deck
why sanctuary? i prefer shard of bravery
Sanctuary is to counter discord bh, pestal, etc, which is often found in arena. However I find it doesn't work because you never get 3 :light in those cases. Also sob would prob only serve to deck yourself out, which happens too often to me.
Post by: The Chosen One on July 26, 2012, 09:38:38 am
i think this is the best deck ever :d
for example is this arena deck nice too
its better for a discord BH deck
why sanctuary? i prefer shard of bravery
Sanctuary is to counter discord bh, pestal, etc, which is often found in arena. However I find it doesn't work because you never get 3 :light in those cases. Also sob would prob only serve to deck yourself out, which happens too often to me.
ok I understand :D not bad, maybe if sanctuary is in your open hand you can use it at 3 turns, but if is a pestal, the opponent will use steal...and if he use discord with :gravity maybe he will use black hole before you can play sanctuary... maybe against platinum you can use this version:
I hope this version enjoy and help you :D
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on July 26, 2012, 11:19:13 am
Post by: furballdn on July 26, 2012, 06:36:45 pm
Surely the problem with using Sanctuary is that if you play a Shard of Sacrifice then the Sanctuary will damage you for 4HP every turn?If you get it out early it heals you for 4hp each turn, so it's balanced out.
Post by: YellowfLash on August 03, 2012, 07:58:49 am
Post by: McSod on August 03, 2012, 08:01:43 am
Post by: YellowfLash on August 03, 2012, 08:10:37 am
Post by: SnoWeb on August 03, 2012, 08:27:41 am
Post by: ElementalDearWatson on August 03, 2012, 02:40:07 pm
ye well i know but how? i got an upped rainbow deck like years now and a fire mono dragon deck.. still i cannot get 2 consecutive victories in plat.. i cannot even do it in bronz for 100% sure..
If you're looking for Upped, grind Gold, if you're looking for Unupped grind Bronze or Silver, depending on how good your decks are. If you can't get any spins on any Arena level, then there's something wrong with your deck and you should ask for advice in the "Deck Help" section.
Post by: YellowfLash on August 06, 2012, 09:07:36 pm
ye well i know but how? i got an upped rainbow deck like years now and a fire mono dragon deck.. still i cannot get 2 consecutive victories in plat.. i cannot even do it in bronz for 100% sure..
If you're looking for Upped, grind Gold, if you're looking for Unupped grind Bronze or Silver, depending on how good your decks are. If you can't get any spins on any Arena level, then there's something wrong with your deck and you should ask for advice in the "Deck Help" section.
i dont really need to farm gold i can farm it i need the shards.. here is my deck..i got more cards to add i just show you one of my rainbow
Well I have myself put out a deck in gold for farming.. hope it helps some of you..
Post by: Higurashi on August 08, 2012, 10:15:55 am
You won't get a faster response by bumping a thread that's about a different deck. Wait a little.
Please don't triple or double post.
Post by: YellowfLash on August 08, 2012, 11:08:11 am
Sorry for that i was just being messed and the reason is that i have been playing this game for years and when the shards came out i wasnt really paying any attention to them..
Now i just wanna own some not to make this particular deck but to enrich my collection and play in the arena which i assume needs shards.... anyways thank you..
(always waiting of replies.. tell me if you want me to move my post in deck help, but the thing isn't my need for deck building help rather than advise on how and where to get shard cards....)
Post by: bripod on August 09, 2012, 12:26:53 am
I see only one big problem to this deck: the high number of 0 cost cards which are not producing quanta. This screws up the Mulligan +10.
So true my friend, so very true. I love this deck (and variations of it) but it always seems to come at the most inopportune time... your First Tower stuck 15 cards down in the deck... lol... Oh well, it's still a viable deck. (maybe getting a bit less as of late, with all the Purify spam in Plat, and it has to dance around SoFo, but I still love it.) ;)
Post by: Hiddje123 on August 09, 2012, 09:33:27 am
I see only one big problem to this deck: the high number of 0 cost cards which are not producing quanta. This screws up the Mulligan +10.
So true my friend, so very true. I love this deck (and variations of it) but it always seems to come at the most inopportune time... your First Tower stuck 15 cards down in the deck... lol... Oh well, it's still a viable deck. (maybe getting a bit less as of late, with all the Purify spam in Plat, and it has to dance around SoFo, but I still love it.) ;)
I use this deck and simply just added 2 cards for a 32 card deck. An extra tower seems to really help against that mulligans stuff and also added an extra ars since getting out an early one helps speed up the games A LOT. Arena has indeed become very annoying with this especially plat, in gold it still fairs really well for me for some reason. FGs on the other hand, this absolutely rips those apart ;)
Post by: Luminous on September 12, 2012, 01:48:51 pm
Lol.
(http://i.imgur.com/2J6OS.jpg)
Post by: iancudorinmarian on September 17, 2012, 08:59:10 am
Isn't Destiny gets enough damage from eggs ? Here it is.let me guess, your last card was a pillar?
Lol.
(http://i.imgur.com/2J6OS.jpg)
Post by: Luminous on September 17, 2012, 06:40:13 pm
That's so off-topic and of course it is,no trick on that.Isn't Destiny gets enough damage from eggs ? Here it is.let me guess, your last card was a pillar?
Lol.
(http://i.imgur.com/2J6OS.jpg)
Post by: BunKeR on September 18, 2012, 12:01:36 am
Quick question about vs Platinum : Has Reflective/Mirror Shield been tested yet as a counter to Purify while in SoSac turns ? And if so , how did it fair ?
I'm thinking of testing it but I was curious if any work had been done yet .
Post by: redeyesly on September 20, 2012, 06:36:57 pm
Post by: Hiddje123 on September 23, 2012, 02:53:25 pm
The ai purifying itself is the major problem, as you'll never rebuild enough poison damage, so mirror shield doesn't really help this deck at all, except maybe against fire lance or gas bombs.Scorpio is the only FG with purify and he will generally purify himself anyways. Seems like an excellent idea to me ;o. Would make octane much easier and prevent unexpected KOs from eternal phoenix etc. Only downside is that making the deck larger may prevent sundial/sosac chains and I don't see anything you can take out to replace it with.
Post by: Luminous on September 23, 2012, 07:06:43 pm
He does not purify himself.The ai purifying itself is the major problem, as you'll never rebuild enough poison damage, so mirror shield doesn't really help this deck at all, except maybe against fire lance or gas bombs.Scorpio is the only FG with purify and he will generally purify himself anyways. Seems like an excellent idea to me ;o. Would make octane much easier and prevent unexpected KOs from eternal phoenix etc. Only downside is that making the deck larger may prevent sundial/sosac chains and I don't see anything you can take out to replace it with.
I met him many times and he always chose to purify me.
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on September 23, 2012, 09:46:13 pm
He does not purify himself.The ai purifying itself is the major problem, as you'll never rebuild enough poison damage, so mirror shield doesn't really help this deck at all, except maybe against fire lance or gas bombs.Scorpio is the only FG with purify and he will generally purify himself anyways. Seems like an excellent idea to me ;o. Would make octane much easier and prevent unexpected KOs from eternal phoenix etc. Only downside is that making the deck larger may prevent sundial/sosac chains and I don't see anything you can take out to replace it with.
I met him many times and he always chose to purify me.
He will if you're not using SoSac and he has enough counters.
Post by: Luminous on September 24, 2012, 04:44:52 pm
Come on,go ahead. Troll me. I. Dare. You.He does not purify himself.The ai purifying itself is the major problem, as you'll never rebuild enough poison damage, so mirror shield doesn't really help this deck at all, except maybe against fire lance or gas bombs.Scorpio is the only FG with purify and he will generally purify himself anyways. Seems like an excellent idea to me ;o. Would make octane much easier and prevent unexpected KOs from eternal phoenix etc. Only downside is that making the deck larger may prevent sundial/sosac chains and I don't see anything you can take out to replace it with.
I met him many times and he always chose to purify me.
He will if you're not using SoSac and he has enough counters.
Post by: redeyesly on September 24, 2012, 07:41:43 pm
Post by: Hiddje123 on September 25, 2012, 04:00:06 pm
He does not purify himself.The ai purifying itself is the major problem, as you'll never rebuild enough poison damage, so mirror shield doesn't really help this deck at all, except maybe against fire lance or gas bombs.Scorpio is the only FG with purify and he will generally purify himself anyways. Seems like an excellent idea to me ;o. Would make octane much easier and prevent unexpected KOs from eternal phoenix etc. Only downside is that making the deck larger may prevent sundial/sosac chains and I don't see anything you can take out to replace it with.
I met him many times and he always chose to purify me.
Either way 99% of the time if he purifies you, you will be below 40 hp the next turn so you can't resosac anyways. You stand more chance trying to restack the poison.
Post by: redeyesly on September 25, 2012, 11:23:53 pm
Post by: Gandora on September 26, 2012, 07:50:20 am
Because I won the last 6 times by making him discard Miracle.
Though that might also just have been luck...
Post by: Sevs on September 26, 2012, 08:36:47 pm
Is Miracle really so hard as stated in the OP?
Because I won the last 6 times by making him discard Miracle.
Though that might also just have been luck...
I only played miracle 5 times. I actually lost the first 2 times because miracle didnt have enough damage. and the other 3 miracle was able to play 2 of the 6 miracles in its deck. It may have been a fluke since 5 games really isn't a huge sample. the only way to tell is to take more stats
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on September 26, 2012, 11:31:26 pm
Is Miracle really so hard as stated in the OP?
Because I won the last 6 times by making him discard Miracle.
Though that might also just have been luck...
I only played miracle 5 times. I actually lost the first 2 times because miracle didnt have enough damage. and the other 3 miracle was able to play 2 of the 6 miracles in its deck. It may have been a fluke since 5 games really isn't a huge sample. the only way to tell is to take more stats
Maybe I'll try him in the future. I generally just autoquit b/c I'm scared of his name.
Post by: Tiko on September 27, 2012, 09:01:45 am
This alone proves it again that this strategy is working a *lot* better with more than 30 cards. You just have to keep one Deadly Poison in your hand at all times, Arsenic can easily take care of the rest - if you have still the possibility to stall of course; and that's where the 30+ cards come in. Also, if you fear that (s)he Purifies you, that'd also mean (s)he will negate a great portion of its damage output, just try to keep your HP on a healthy level when you Sacrifice.
Quite an easy target most of the time, despite having the perfect counter card.
Post by: redeyesly on September 27, 2012, 09:30:15 pm
Quote
Arsenic can easily take care of the rest
Again, this only applies to the one FG with purify. In the arena, arsenic is only useful if your opponent has no pc, bone wall, dime shield or sosac. Also assuming that both your arsenics aren't in the bottom 3rd of your deck.
Post by: Tiko on September 27, 2012, 09:34:38 pm
Post by: redeyesly on September 27, 2012, 10:28:24 pm
Post by: ddevans96 on September 27, 2012, 11:57:38 pm
He will if you're not using SoSac and he has enough counters.Come on,go ahead. Troll me. I. Dare. You.
Why so aggressive?
Post by: playera on September 28, 2012, 03:56:48 am
Post by: Luminous on October 02, 2012, 04:06:40 pm
My Best Platinum League Farming Deck , Thank you :)POdial is amazing but there are better decks,faster, for plat such as SPlat that puts poison faster. And...your nick is not quite original.
Post by: redeyesly on October 03, 2012, 04:41:23 pm
Post by: Luminous on October 03, 2012, 06:00:32 pm
I disagree. The stall and draw power of this deck are worth more than getting poison out a little faster. I have much greater success with this over splat.Plat is not FGs you dont need more stalling than 12 turns. I tested both in splat and FGs. SPlat is faster. 60 seconds and %90 winrate is over than 120 secs and %95 winrate.
Post by: redeyesly on October 03, 2012, 06:12:48 pm
Post by: Luminous on October 03, 2012, 06:26:34 pm
We were discussing platinum arena, not FG. And neither splat or poison dials are anywhere near 90% win rate. And from my own personal testing, splat is inferior in several ways. Having 0 stall turns, it gets owned very quickly by most decks, having no draw mechanic, it is nearly impossible to keep a sosac chain going, and causing damage is dependent on a 3 card combo, so if you don't have any one of those, you're screwed.First i made an example as %90 things.
This is FG thread. You started Plat talking when you say Thank you best plat eva <3
Does not matter in SPlat without starting-hand because when you poisoned one,you WILL eventually discard half of the cards. And i am talking about pillarless splat which has some mechanic. Even if you cant chain like in PODials,you will have the time to finish off your opponent.
You are not screwed. Your starter hand is 8 cards. Chance to get 3 of 'em is not really low.
Also,in PODials,you need to draw more poison to keep damaging fast. In SPlat,you dont have to. 3 Sosacs and 3 combos are enough for you,if you are a pro with your SPlat and can make stall easier.
Post by: redeyesly on October 03, 2012, 06:40:52 pm
Post by: Luminous on October 03, 2012, 07:06:12 pm
Though I see little point in arguing with you, I just can't help myself. First, The title of this thread mentions FG and arena, and I didn't say "best plat grinder" someone else did, then you responded to him, and I responded to you. But from all the other things you've said, it is quite clear that you have no experience with using any of these decks in the arena, even though you claim to be "pro with your splat." So tell me, how does a pro "make stall easier" in a deck with no stall?In deck with no stall in SPlat ? 6 SoDs and 6 SoSacs you fool. And i am not arguing you. We are discussing it. Even if you didnt open plat thread,you can understand i didnt too. Dont try to flame me.
etc : Vineroz loves PODial than splat because of more ems. Because vine loves effective stalls,but calin uses splat over podial and even instosis because it's really fast and plat means grinding for rares. Again, 'grinding' ,this game's precious word, needs to be fast.
Post by: Sevs on October 04, 2012, 01:48:15 pm
Though I see little point in arguing with you, I just can't help myself. First, The title of this thread mentions FG and arena, and I didn't say "best plat grinder" someone else did, then you responded to him, and I responded to you. But from all the other things you've said, it is quite clear that you have no experience with using any of these decks in the arena, even though you claim to be "pro with your splat." So tell me, how does a pro "make stall easier" in a deck with no stall?In deck with no stall in SPlat ? 6 SoDs and 6 SoSacs you fool. And i am not arguing you. We are discussing it. Even if you didnt open plat thread,you can understand i didnt too. Dont try to flame me.
etc : Vineroz loves PODial than splat because of more ems. Because vine loves effective stalls,but calin uses splat over podial and even instosis because it's really fast and plat means grinding for rares. Again, 'grinding' ,this game's precious word, needs to be fast.
Lets not let this get out of hand. keep it civil.
But to add my 2 cents to the issue. Overall you can compare the decks as much as you like it is still going to come down to preference because each person plays a deck differently.
As I havent really played in a while, you might find some of this outdated.
-you have the option to beat SoSac decks, something I have found very hard with SPlat.
-SPlat has much higher damage potential but slower on the start.
-Splat is a 2 card combo that needs to happen early while Pdials needs to consistently draw damage. This could be a good and bad thing for SPlat since you can recognize when to surrender a game earlier.
-Since the AI holds back creatures when SoSac is out, I have found it much harder to chain without sundials. This could also just be a lack of experience issue. I have only played ~300 games of splat vs 700 with pdials.
-As for speed I honestly cant tell you which is faster, if you are drawing all out with PDials it would be faster, but there are a large amount of games in which that shouldn't be the play style making Splat possibly faster overall.
-Mulligan is an issue with both decks (Pdials worse) because of the sundials being 0 cost but the sundials also allow you to stall and draw even without towers.
-quanta disruption, if the disruption happens early it can hurt the speed of splat but once damage it out there, you should be fine. PDials needs a stream of quanta to play damage but can stall for longer with quanta.
The sundials are the throttle, determining whether you need to draw to outdamage or whether you need the extra 6 turns of stall. This variability I find more fun than chaining SoSac.
To each their own
Post by: iancudorinmarian on October 05, 2012, 12:50:31 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 05, 2012, 05:45:03 pm
can you update osiris and akebono plz?
Done but they should still be easy.
Post by: kimham8a on October 06, 2012, 03:08:26 am
If they use rushes, Pdial. Personally I use Pdial and SPlat equally but use rainbow mostly.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on October 06, 2012, 01:13:52 pm
Thank you, but still, at Osiris, you should say "SoFo breaks sundial chain" or something like this (like at akebono)can you update osiris and akebono plz?
Done but they should still be easy.
Post by: Sevs on October 06, 2012, 06:03:03 pm
Thank you, but still, at Osiris, you should say "SoFo breaks sundial chain" or something like this (like at akebono)can you update osiris and akebono plz?
Done but they should still be easy.
I figured the idea of PC breaking the chain is sort of self explanatory.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on October 06, 2012, 06:21:21 pm
Post by: Luminous on October 06, 2012, 08:10:15 pm
yes, but some players may not know that.
What do you exactly mean ? Nobody is THAT stupid to dont care SoFo.
Post by: kimham8a on October 09, 2012, 01:13:41 am
yes, but some players may not know that.
What do you exactly mean ? Nobody is THAT stupid to dont care SoFo.
I don't know, some people do strange things... XD
Post by: Reid4891 on October 19, 2012, 10:30:20 pm
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/Elidnis.jpg)
Tell me if there is some trick I didn't get.
Post by: kimham8a on October 20, 2012, 02:47:30 am
How is possible to win against Elidnis? I followed the instructions here, but in my games it uses TU on its creatures despite the SoSac (maybe it didn't before?), plus it keeps playing Feral Bonds. In all my games so far (4, I know it's not enough to make a statistic but still) it never played less than 3 Feral Bonds and 2 TU, which means that it can at least heal for +15 healing at turn (usually more). I can't see how you can overcome that since I never went close to it. This is my last game lol (I got Arsenic too late I know but even if I'd get it before the outcome would have been the same):
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/Elidnis.jpg)
Tell me if there is some trick I didn't get.
Elidnis is pretty hard IMO, but if you get a little lucky with your draw and get fast poison + Elidnis doesn't get many bonds or TU or the quanta for those things, you can win. You probably just weren't lucky that game. Generally if Elidnis has that many bonds and creatures out you should quit.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 20, 2012, 06:16:29 pm
Elidnis is pretty hard IMO, but if you get a little lucky with your draw and get fast poison + Elidnis doesn't get many bonds or TU or the quanta for those things, you can win. You probably just weren't lucky that game. Generally if Elidnis has that many bonds and creatures out you should quit.
I'll keep trying but I can hardly think of a situation like that. You have to play for many rounds with this deck so I can't see how Elidnis wouldn't get enough Feral Bonds and TU in the meantime. In the OP Eldinis is 3-3 :-\
Anyway I don't think this deck can really go (much) above 60% win rate vs FG. I find the win rate posted in the OP quite odd.
Post by: kimham8a on October 22, 2012, 02:20:54 am
Once I found the Instosis winrate was really around 30%, but as I played 100+ games I finally got the winrate in the OP, so maybe it's just getting used to it. Eg its hard to get Octane to get 2 EE before 2+ UG, but I've done Octane 1-2 as far as I can remember with this deck.Elidnis is pretty hard IMO, but if you get a little lucky with your draw and get fast poison + Elidnis doesn't get many bonds or TU or the quanta for those things, you can win. You probably just weren't lucky that game. Generally if Elidnis has that many bonds and creatures out you should quit.
I'll keep trying but I can hardly think of a situation like that. You have to play for many rounds with this deck so I can't see how Elidnis wouldn't get enough Feral Bonds and TU in the meantime. In the OP Eldinis is 3-3 :-\
Anyway I don't think this deck can really go (much) above 60% win rate vs FG. I find the win rate posted in the OP quite odd.
Post by: rob77dp on October 22, 2012, 03:53:45 am
Once I found the Instosis winrate was really around 30%, but as I played 100+ games I finally got the winrate in the OP, so maybe it's just getting used to it.
Instosis win rate of 30%???!? I have 230 matches played with Instosis and have a 54.8% (54.5% normalized) win rate so far (including skips) and have seen similar win rates around the forums. It also tends to win faster than Poison Dials SoSac with a 9.5 TTW, 199 sec/match from my 230 match stats. I suppose which you choose also hinges on getting the x6 SoSa or x4 SoR first - I got the SoR first (still don't have x6 SoSa) and built Instosis to FG farm.
Just my 2 :electrum in response to the quote about 30% Instosis win-rate.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 22, 2012, 01:37:01 pm
With PoisonDial I'm at 60,09% after 212 matches so far, I don't think I can go much higher. In the long run it seems you lose very often against medium FG that in the OP have a very good score (one above all is Dream Catcher, 6-1 is something I don't understand, it almost always play an early Discord and I usually have only 1 tower and there is quicksand also) and you can even lose against easy deck with a bad hand (once I got 1 sundial and 0 SoSac and I've been rushed to death by Akebono). While with Instosis I had some FG I was getting better results than the OP and some that I was getting worse results, with PoisonDial they're pretty much all a little (and some a lot) worse.
Post by: Sevs on October 22, 2012, 04:52:26 pm
As for DC, I still never really had a problem with it maybe not 6-1 quality but if you save your towers to play 2 at a time with a poison, I find it isn't terrible.
And then with the addition of SoF, changes to purify, 60% doesn't seem so bad.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 22, 2012, 05:27:01 pm
Elidnis I am pretty sure I got pretty lucky on but that kind of RNG variation is hard to keep level in only ~5 games per god. This probably goes for octane as well. Even playing octane with other decks there are times where it draws every UG right off the bat or it starts out with a crazy number of OE's, it is really unstable.
Well, thanks for taking to bother to answer me. I obviously agree, that's why I plan to reach at least 1000 games to get a better estimate.
As for DC, I still never really had a problem with it maybe not 6-1 quality but if you save your towers to play 2 at a time with a poison, I find it isn't terrible.
I'm 5-8 vs DC (unluckily it's also the 2nd FG which came out often). My problem is that I usually get only 1 tower (killed by quicksand) and it plays an early Discord almost every time. Then, I can't draw with sundials due to Discord messing the poor little quanta I've. I don't know maybe on the long run I'm gonna be luckier, let's see what will happen.
And then with the addition of SoF, changes to purify, 60% doesn't seem so bad.
Oh, thanks. This kind of reassure me that I'm not playing it wrong. Still, the Elements Game Simulator by Xenocidius is around 70%. Is there something wrong for that?
Post by: Sevs on October 22, 2012, 05:38:46 pm
And then with the addition of SoF, changes to purify, 60% doesn't seem so bad.
Oh, thanks. This kind of reassure me that I'm not playing it wrong. Still, the Elements Game Simulator by Xenocidius is around 70%. Is there something wrong for that?
That bugged me too, That is the reason I took stats in the first place, when the simulator came out I tried a bunch of the decks I had made. It kept coming up with numbers like 78-82% which I was shocked by so i tried it out. I wonder if we tried to pay exactly how the AI would play if we do any better?
Post by: Gandora on October 22, 2012, 06:14:30 pm
I wonder if we tried to pay exactly how the AI would play if we do any better?
I guess the AI would play Sundials immediately and always draw?
Also, it does chain SoSac.
Not sure if the faster poison by drawing early is a greater advantage than stalling mid-game.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 22, 2012, 09:21:24 pm
I guess the AI would play Sundials immediately and always draw?
Also, it does chain SoSac.
Not sure if the faster poison by drawing early is a greater advantage than stalling mid-game.
No, no. :D It's impossible an AI can play better than a human (and better than me especially :P), trust me. I did some tests and I think it is a bug. This is a test on 100 matches vs Miracles:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/miracletest.jpg)
32% winrate vs Miracle? And if you wanna try, Ferox and Incarnate are similar (30-35%). Only Fire Queen goes well against it (Win rate less than 10%). Those should be all decks that you could win with 0-5% chances. This is clearly a bug (or I'm using the Simulator in an incorrect way).
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on October 22, 2012, 09:51:15 pm
Player 1 = Poison Dials SoSa
Player 2 = Miracle
Turn 8
Player 1 began their turn with 15 HP and 3 / 16 cards
Player 1 drew Bone Tower
Player 1 played Sundial in position 2
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 1 (4)
Sundial in position 3 used hasten, drawing Shard of Sacrifice
Player 1 ended their turn with 15 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 167
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 4 Death quanta
Sundial in position 3 expired
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 15 HP
Player 2 began their turn with 167 HP and 3 / 24 cards
Player 2 drew Morning Glory
Player 2 ended their turn with 167 HP
Wind Tower in position 1 generated 2 Air quanta
Emerald Tower in position 2 generated 4 Life quanta
Light Tower in position 3 generated 2 Light quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 3 Light quanta
Player 2 has 167 HP
Turn 9
Player 1 began their turn with 15 HP and 3 / 14 cards
Player 1 drew Shard of Divinity
Sundial in position 2 used hasten, drawing Bone Tower
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 1 (5)
Player 1 ended their turn with 15 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 161
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 5 Death quanta
Sundial in position 2 expired
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 15 HP
Player 2 began their turn with 161 HP and 4 / 23 cards
Player 2 drew Solar Buckler
Player 2 played Solar Buckler
Player 2 ended their turn with 161 HP
Leaf Dragon in position 1 dealt 4 damage, reducing enemy HP to 19
Light Dragon in position 2 dealt 12 damage, reducing enemy HP to 31
Wind Tower in position 1 generated 2 Air quanta
Emerald Tower in position 2 generated 4 Life quanta
Light Tower in position 3 generated 2 Light quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 3 Light quanta
Player 2 has 161 HP
Turn 10
Player 1 began their turn with 31 HP and 4 / 12 cards
Player 1 drew Deadly Poison
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 9
Player 1 ended their turn with 31 HP
Player 2 was dealt 9 poison damage, reducing their HP to 152
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 5 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 31 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 15 HP and 3 / 16 cards
Player 1 drew Bone Tower
Player 1 played Sundial in position 2
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 1 (4)
Sundial in position 3 used hasten, drawing Shard of Sacrifice
Player 1 ended their turn with 15 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 167
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 4 Death quanta
Sundial in position 3 expired
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 15 HP
Player 2 began their turn with 167 HP and 3 / 24 cards
Player 2 drew Morning Glory
Player 2 ended their turn with 167 HP
Wind Tower in position 1 generated 2 Air quanta
Emerald Tower in position 2 generated 4 Life quanta
Light Tower in position 3 generated 2 Light quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 3 Light quanta
Player 2 has 167 HP
Turn 9
Player 1 began their turn with 15 HP and 3 / 14 cards
Player 1 drew Shard of Divinity
Sundial in position 2 used hasten, drawing Bone Tower
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 1 (5)
Player 1 ended their turn with 15 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 161
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 5 Death quanta
Sundial in position 2 expired
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 15 HP
Player 2 began their turn with 161 HP and 4 / 23 cards
Player 2 drew Solar Buckler
Player 2 played Solar Buckler
Player 2 ended their turn with 161 HP
Leaf Dragon in position 1 dealt 4 damage, reducing enemy HP to 19
Light Dragon in position 2 dealt 12 damage, reducing enemy HP to 31
Wind Tower in position 1 generated 2 Air quanta
Emerald Tower in position 2 generated 4 Life quanta
Light Tower in position 3 generated 2 Light quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 3 Light quanta
Player 2 has 161 HP
Turn 10
Player 1 began their turn with 31 HP and 4 / 12 cards
Player 1 drew Deadly Poison
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 9
Player 1 ended their turn with 31 HP
Player 2 was dealt 9 poison damage, reducing their HP to 152
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 5 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 31 HP
Post by: Reid4891 on October 22, 2012, 10:41:27 pm
Game vs Ferox
Turn 3
Player 2 began their turn with 200 HP and 1 / 93 cards
Player 2 drew Ray of Light
Player 2 drew Elite Cockatrice
Player 2 played Ray of Light in position 4
Player 2 played Elite Cockatrice in position 5
Player 2 ended their turn with 200 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 4 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 200 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 123 HP and 5 / 21 cards
Player 1 drew Bone Tower
Player 1 played Shard of Sacrifice, lowering HP to 83; Sacrifice counter increased to 2
Player 1 played Sundial in position 1
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 2 (2)
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 3
Player 1 ended their turn with 83 HP
Player 2 was dealt 3 poison damage, reducing their HP to 197
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 2 Death quanta
Sundial in position 3 expired
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 83 HP
Turn 4
Player 2 began their turn with 197 HP and 1 / 91 cards
Player 2 drew Elite Cockatrice
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 197 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 4 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 197 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 83 HP and 2 / 20 cards
Player 1 drew Bone Tower
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 6
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 2 (3)
Player 1 ended their turn with 83 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 191
Sundial in position 1 expired
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 83 HP
Turn 5
Player 2 began their turn with 191 HP and 3 / 89 cards
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 drew Jade Shield
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (5)
Player 2 played Jade Shield
Player 2 ended their turn with 191 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 84, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 85, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 86, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 87, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 92
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 97
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 98, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 103
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 5 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 191 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 103 HP and 1 / 19 cards
Player 1 drew Sundial
Player 1 played Sundial in position 1
Player 1 ended their turn with 103 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 185
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 103 HP
Turn 6
Player 2 began their turn with 185 HP and 3 / 87 cards
Player 2 drew Ray of Light
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 185 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 5 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 185 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 103 HP and 1 / 18 cards
Player 1 drew Deadly Poison
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 9
Player 1 ended their turn with 103 HP
Player 2 was dealt 9 poison damage, reducing their HP to 176
Sundial in position 1 expired
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 103 HP
Turn 7
Player 2 began their turn with 176 HP and 5 / 85 cards
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (6)
Player 2 ended their turn with 176 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 104, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 105, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 106, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 107, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 112
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 117
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 118, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 123
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 6 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 176 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 123 HP and 1 / 17 cards
Player 1 drew Arsenic
Player 1 played Arsenic
Player 1 ended their turn with 123 HP
Player 2 was dealt 9 poison damage, reducing their HP to 167
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 165, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 10
Player 1 has 123 HP
Turn 8
Player 2 began their turn with 165 HP and 6 / 83 cards
Player 2 drew Feral Bond
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 played Feral Bond in position 2
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (7)
Player 2 ended their turn with 165 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 7 Life quanta
Feral Bond in position 2 healed its owner 5 HP, to 170
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 170 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 124 HP and 1 / 16 cards
Player 1 drew Arsenic
Player 1 ended their turn with 124 HP
Player 2 was dealt 10 poison damage, reducing their HP to 160
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 158, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 11
Player 1 has 124 HP
Turn 9
Player 2 began their turn with 158 HP and 6 / 81 cards
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 drew Jade Staff
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (8)
Player 2 ended their turn with 158 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Enemy creatures are still not damaging it even when the only SoSac has been played 6 turns before!
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 8 Life quanta
Feral Bond in position 2 healed its owner 5 HP, to 163
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 163 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 124 HP and 2 / 15 cards
Player 1 drew Sundial
Player 1 played Sundial in position 1
Player 1 ended their turn with 124 HP
Player 2 was dealt 11 poison damage, reducing their HP to 152
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 150, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 12
Player 1 has 124 HP
Turn 10
Player 2 began their turn with 150 HP and 7 / 79 cards
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 150 HP
Player 2 discarded Jade Dragon
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 8 Life quanta
Feral Bond in position 2 healed its owner 5 HP, to 155
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 155 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 124 HP and 2 / 14 cards
Player 1 drew Deadly Poison
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 15
Sundial in position 1 used hasten, drawing Shard of Sacrifice
Player 1 played Shard of Sacrifice, lowering HP to 84; Sacrifice counter increased to 4
And in fact now 7 turns later the PoisonDial deck plays another SoSac and the counter goes to 4!
Player 1 ended their turn with 84 HP
Player 2 was dealt 15 poison damage, reducing their HP to 140
Sundial in position 1 expired
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 138, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 16
Player 1 has 84 HP
Player 2 began their turn with 200 HP and 1 / 93 cards
Player 2 drew Ray of Light
Player 2 drew Elite Cockatrice
Player 2 played Ray of Light in position 4
Player 2 played Elite Cockatrice in position 5
Player 2 ended their turn with 200 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 4 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 200 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 123 HP and 5 / 21 cards
Player 1 drew Bone Tower
Player 1 played Shard of Sacrifice, lowering HP to 83; Sacrifice counter increased to 2
Player 1 played Sundial in position 1
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 2 (2)
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 3
Player 1 ended their turn with 83 HP
Player 2 was dealt 3 poison damage, reducing their HP to 197
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 2 Death quanta
Sundial in position 3 expired
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 83 HP
Turn 4
Player 2 began their turn with 197 HP and 1 / 91 cards
Player 2 drew Elite Cockatrice
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 197 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 4 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 197 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 83 HP and 2 / 20 cards
Player 1 drew Bone Tower
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 6
Player 1 played Bone Tower in position 2 (3)
Player 1 ended their turn with 83 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 191
Sundial in position 1 expired
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 83 HP
Turn 5
Player 2 began their turn with 191 HP and 3 / 89 cards
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 drew Jade Shield
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (5)
Player 2 played Jade Shield
Player 2 ended their turn with 191 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 84, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 85, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 86, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 87, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 92
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 97
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 98, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 103
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 5 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 191 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 103 HP and 1 / 19 cards
Player 1 drew Sundial
Player 1 played Sundial in position 1
Player 1 ended their turn with 103 HP
Player 2 was dealt 6 poison damage, reducing their HP to 185
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 103 HP
Turn 6
Player 2 began their turn with 185 HP and 3 / 87 cards
Player 2 drew Ray of Light
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 185 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 5 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 185 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 103 HP and 1 / 18 cards
Player 1 drew Deadly Poison
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 9
Player 1 ended their turn with 103 HP
Player 2 was dealt 9 poison damage, reducing their HP to 176
Sundial in position 1 expired
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Player 1 has 103 HP
Turn 7
Player 2 began their turn with 176 HP and 5 / 85 cards
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (6)
Player 2 ended their turn with 176 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 104, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 105, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 106, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 107, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 112
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 117
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 118, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 123
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 6 Life quanta
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 176 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 123 HP and 1 / 17 cards
Player 1 drew Arsenic
Player 1 played Arsenic
Player 1 ended their turn with 123 HP
Player 2 was dealt 9 poison damage, reducing their HP to 167
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 165, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 10
Player 1 has 123 HP
Turn 8
Player 2 began their turn with 165 HP and 6 / 83 cards
Player 2 drew Feral Bond
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 played Feral Bond in position 2
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (7)
Player 2 ended their turn with 165 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 7 Life quanta
Feral Bond in position 2 healed its owner 5 HP, to 170
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 170 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 124 HP and 1 / 16 cards
Player 1 drew Arsenic
Player 1 ended their turn with 124 HP
Player 2 was dealt 10 poison damage, reducing their HP to 160
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 158, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 11
Player 1 has 124 HP
Turn 9
Player 2 began their turn with 158 HP and 6 / 81 cards
Player 2 drew Emerald Tower
Player 2 drew Jade Staff
Player 2 played Emerald Tower in position 1 (8)
Player 2 ended their turn with 158 HP
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 2 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Elite Cockatrice in position 3 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Ray of Light in position 4 dealt 1 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124, and generated 1 light quantum
Elite Cockatrice in position 5 dealt 5 damage, reducing enemy HP to 124
Enemy creatures are still not damaging it even when the only SoSac has been played 6 turns before!
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 8 Life quanta
Feral Bond in position 2 healed its owner 5 HP, to 163
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 163 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 124 HP and 2 / 15 cards
Player 1 drew Sundial
Player 1 played Sundial in position 1
Player 1 ended their turn with 124 HP
Player 2 was dealt 11 poison damage, reducing their HP to 152
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 150, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 12
Player 1 has 124 HP
Turn 10
Player 2 began their turn with 150 HP and 7 / 79 cards
Player 2 drew Leaf Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 150 HP
Player 2 discarded Jade Dragon
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 1 generated 1 light quantum
Ray of Light in position 4 generated 1 light quantum
Emerald Tower in position 1 generated 8 Life quanta
Feral Bond in position 2 healed its owner 5 HP, to 155
Mark of Life in position 5 generated 3 Life quanta
Player 2 has 155 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 124 HP and 2 / 14 cards
Player 1 drew Deadly Poison
Player 1 played Deadly Poison, increasing the enemy's poison counter to 15
Sundial in position 1 used hasten, drawing Shard of Sacrifice
Player 1 played Shard of Sacrifice, lowering HP to 84; Sacrifice counter increased to 4
And in fact now 7 turns later the PoisonDial deck plays another SoSac and the counter goes to 4!
Player 1 ended their turn with 84 HP
Player 2 was dealt 15 poison damage, reducing their HP to 140
Sundial in position 1 expired
Bone Tower in position 2 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 dealt 2 damage, reducing enemy HP to 138, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 16
Player 1 has 84 HP
This is how the AI can even win vs Ferox. Basically playing a SoSac asap, -40 HP and infinite healing. It can only lose by deckout, but if AI played the SoSac when there was just few creatures it can overcome the Feral Bonds healing factor (because the FG stops playing creatures for all the game after 1st SoSac).
Similar Miracle it's forced to discard Improved Miracles (because it's unable to play creatures for all the game since there is this perpetual SoSac).
Game vs Miracle
Turn 9
Player 2 began their turn with 121 HP and 7 / 56 cards
Player 2 drew Light Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 121 HP
Player 2 discarded Improved Miracle
FG keeps a dragon and discard the Miracle
Elite Pegasus in position 1 dealt 7 damage, reducing enemy HP to 26
Light Dragon in position 2 dealt 15 damage, reducing enemy HP to 41
Light Tower in position 1 generated 5 Light quanta
Emerald Tower in position 2 generated 2 Life quanta
Wind Tower in position 3 generated 1 Air quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 3 Light quanta
Player 2 has 121 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 41 HP and 0 / 14 cards
Player 1 drew Shard of Sacrifice
Player 1 ended their turn with 41 HP
Player 2 was dealt 16 poison damage, reducing their HP to 105
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 had 1 damage absorbed and converted into light quanta and dealt 3 damage, reducing enemy HP to 102, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 17
Player 1 has 41 HP
Player 2 began their turn with 121 HP and 7 / 56 cards
Player 2 drew Light Dragon
Player 2 ended their turn with 121 HP
Player 2 discarded Improved Miracle
FG keeps a dragon and discard the Miracle
Elite Pegasus in position 1 dealt 7 damage, reducing enemy HP to 26
Light Dragon in position 2 dealt 15 damage, reducing enemy HP to 41
Light Tower in position 1 generated 5 Light quanta
Emerald Tower in position 2 generated 2 Life quanta
Wind Tower in position 3 generated 1 Air quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 3 Light quanta
Player 2 has 121 HP
Player 1 began their turn with 41 HP and 0 / 14 cards
Player 1 drew Shard of Sacrifice
Player 1 ended their turn with 41 HP
Player 2 was dealt 16 poison damage, reducing their HP to 105
Bone Tower in position 1 generated 3 Death quanta
Mark of Light in position 5 generated 1 Light quanta
Arsenic in position 10 had 1 damage absorbed and converted into light quanta and dealt 3 damage, reducing enemy HP to 102, and added 1 poison to the enemy, increasing their poison counter to 17
Player 1 has 41 HP
Now I also get why Fire Queen is the only deck that goes well vs PoisonDial AI. It just needs to play a FFQ before the 1st SoSac (and a Feral Bond later) to win since it keeps spamming fireflies despite the SoSac, while Ferox stops playing creatures.
Post by: kimham8a on October 23, 2012, 01:27:08 am
Post by: Reid4891 on October 23, 2012, 01:34:17 pm
Wow then a deck based on sosa, eternity and photon, forest spectre, and quintessence could get a 99.9% winrate against fg's according to the simulator. :o
I don't think so. Beside the fact that that deck would need five elements ( :time, :life, :water, :aether, :earth) - :earth because you need to PA your eternity and I think also time towers - which it's kind of complicated to do, quanta denial decks such as Decay and Dark Matter won't let you bounce your photon back indefinitely (probably you can't even start to do it). Discord could be a problem too. Unless you can put a Sanctuary in, but well that would be the 6th element and can you play it in time? It'd be better to try to deck out the FG but there are still problems with it. With Decay you need a protected Sanctuary very soon and I don't think you'll be able to do it.
And we're obviously playing it conscious of that SoSac trick. The AI is unaware of that and it will keep playing SoSac losing all its quanta. ^^
Post by: Plantifant on October 23, 2012, 02:41:45 pm
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 23, 2012, 05:38:47 pm
What is actually the best poison dials now?
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.
I'm still using this one in Plat with fairly good results. I usually play Sundials asap to speed up poison damage so PC isn't so bad. Purify is still a problem, but well it's not like every deck has it and it'd be impossible to create a deck with no weakness.
Post by: Plantifant on October 23, 2012, 08:08:41 pm
What is actually the best poison dials now?
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.
I'm still using this one in Plat with fairly good results. I usually play Sundials asap to speed up poison damage so PC isn't so bad. Purify is still a problem, but well it's not like every deck has it and it'd be impossible to create a deck with no weakness.
Can you post the deck?
Post by: Reid4891 on October 23, 2012, 09:44:42 pm
What is actually the best poison dials now?
And does it work, since there is ALOT of PC in arena which will kill all your sundials, also there are Purify's, so I keep doubting if I will use this kind of a deck.
I'm still using this one in Plat with fairly good results. I usually play Sundials asap to speed up poison damage so PC isn't so bad. Purify is still a problem, but well it's not like every deck has it and it'd be impossible to create a deck with no weakness.
Can you post the deck?
It's the on the first post of this thread.
Post by: kimham8a on October 24, 2012, 03:06:36 am
Wow then a deck based on sosa, eternity and photon, forest spectre, and quintessence could get a 99.9% winrate against fg's according to the simulator. :o
I don't think so. Beside the fact that that deck would need five elements ( :time, :life, :water, :aether, :earth) - :earth because you need to PA your eternity and I think also time towers - which it's kind of complicated to do, quanta denial decks such as Decay and Dark Matter won't let you bounce your photon back indefinitely (probably you can't even start to do it). Discord could be a problem too. Unless you can put a Sanctuary in, but well that would be the 6th element and can you play it in time? It'd be better to try to deck out the FG but there are still problems with it. With Decay you need a protected Sanctuary very soon and I don't think you'll be able to do it.
And we're obviously playing it conscious of that SoSac trick. The AI is unaware of that and it will keep playing SoSac losing all its quanta. ^^
Lol clearly I mean a rainbow deck. Quanta denial won't matter at all because decay can be overpowered with just 8 QT and Dark Matter doesn't have enough Black Holes to drain you until you deck out. Sosa wont be a problem for deckout because obviously it won't draw sosac if your busy bouncing a photon. :)
No FG could beat it, seriously.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 24, 2012, 12:01:13 pm
Lol clearly I mean a rainbow deck. Quanta denial won't matter at all because decay can be overpowered with just 8 QT and Dark Matter doesn't have enough Black Holes to drain you until you deck out. Sosa wont be a problem for deckout because obviously it won't draw sosac if your busy bouncing a photon. :)
No FG could beat it, seriously.
Yeah, because with 4 Gravity Nymphs there aren't enough Black Holes to drain your unbeatable deck. Sure, as you wish. 8)
And Scorpio won't ever draw a Purify in the middle of the game when it has 60+ damage on the field, kicking you above 40 health and making you unable to play another SoSac.
Decay can play up to 24 pests (there is fractal). You can't overpower it with only 8QT and you need at least 3 :time quanta every turn to bounce your photon. With 8QT you get an average of 2 :rainbow quanta for element. So good luck with that. And I'm assuming you had PA on QT otherwise it can steal them.
And since we're talking about hypothetical scenarios, I can also say that hypothetically speaking if Jezebel get a Entropy Nymph it can antimatter all its creatures and damage you.
Post by: kimham8a on October 25, 2012, 06:27:37 pm
Hmmm... Ok, maybe you're right. I'll try to test it on the simulator and see if I can 99%.Lol clearly I mean a rainbow deck. Quanta denial won't matter at all because decay can be overpowered with just 8 QT and Dark Matter doesn't have enough Black Holes to drain you until you deck out. Sosa wont be a problem for deckout because obviously it won't draw sosac if your busy bouncing a photon. :)
No FG could beat it, seriously.
Yeah, because with 4 Gravity Nymphs there aren't enough Black Holes to drain your unbeatable deck. Sure, as you wish. 8)
And Scorpio won't ever draw a Purify in the middle of the game when it has 60+ damage on the field, kicking you above 40 health and making you unable to play another SoSac.
Decay can play up to 24 pests (there is fractal). You can't overpower it with only 8QT and you need at least 3 :time quanta every turn to bounce your photon. With 8QT you get an average of 2 :rainbow quanta for element. So good luck with that. And I'm assuming you had PA on QT otherwise it can steal them.
And since we're talking about hypothetical scenarios, I can also say that hypothetically speaking if Jezebel get a Entropy Nymph it can antimatter all its creatures and damage you.
Edit: Dang it, I can't use the simulator for some reason, keeps doing nothing and IE says error on page. Can someone test this?
Post by: Luminous on October 25, 2012, 08:31:20 pm
Also, it'd be toooooooooo slow to farm some electrum.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 25, 2012, 09:15:24 pm
Edit: Dang it, I can't use the simulator for some reason, keeps doing nothing and IE says error on page. Can someone test this?
Player
Wins: 232
Winrate: 46.774193548387096 %
Average TTW: 26.939655172413794
EMs: 109
EM rate: 46.98275862068966 %
Computer
Wins: 264
Winrate: 53.225806451612904 %
Average TTW: 17.541666666666668
EMs: 50
EM rate: 18.939393939393938 %
I tried on 100 games multiple times, the win rate range is about between 41% and 54%.
Post by: kimham8a on October 26, 2012, 12:43:58 am
And yep, sancs heal with damaging you.Also sosac wouldn't last forever in real game. :P
Also, it'd be toooooooooo slow to farm some electrum.
Aw, that's too bad. Will do heavy deck building/testing as soon as I can use the simulator. (I think I need to use Google Chrome, which I also can't download for some reason.)Edit: Dang it, I can't use the simulator for some reason, keeps doing nothing and IE says error on page. Can someone test this?Player
Wins: 232
Winrate: 46.774193548387096 %
Average TTW: 26.939655172413794
EMs: 109
EM rate: 46.98275862068966 %
Computer
Wins: 264
Winrate: 53.225806451612904 %
Average TTW: 17.541666666666668
EMs: 50
EM rate: 18.939393939393938 %
I tried on 100 games multiple times, the win rate range is about between 41% and 54%.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 27, 2012, 03:45:37 pm
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/firequin.jpg)
Post by: Reid4891 on October 30, 2012, 07:19:48 pm
Ok, here it is. After Instosis I did the same study for PoisonDial: 60,60% after 500 (loooooong) games.
IMPORTANT TIP: if you're worried about deckout, here's a trick: after you pass the turn (so with the damage calculated) take the enemy HP left and divide it by the number of cards you still have to draw. The result is how much damage for turn you need to do to kill it before deckout. If it's lower than the poison counter, you're pretty much safe. If it's 1-2 points higher, you should still be ok (drawing a deadly poison gives you a +3). If it's a lot higher, I suggest not to draw from sundials (but it depends on the opponent). Just remember to do the calculation midgame when you pull out at least 9 poison otherwise it's pretty useless. Obviously it can't apply for FG with healing, but you're pretty much screwed against them so whatever.
VERY EASY (>80%)
Destiny -> First three FGs aren't a problem. You can only lose with an almost impossible bad hand.
Lionheart -> ''
Neptune -> ''
Gemini -> only look out for its :aether. Don't let your guard down in the middle game, always play a SoSac or a Sundial even if you're full health otwerise a massive Twin Universe can bring you down below 40 HP.
Serket -> In middle game don't chain SoSac, instead alternate SoSac and Sundials when at full health (since if you run out of SoSac you can't chain more than 1 Sundials otherwise its high poison damage could kick you below 40 HP).
Graviton -> Use the Sundials soon since later they can be targeted by Explosions. Keep one of the two Arsenic for when you clogged its hand by chaining SoSac so that it already waste Explosions on Towers.
Osiris -> If there is SoFo and a catapult play SoSac (if it has enough :gravity). It's gonna destroy a tower/arsenic and catapult it anyway.
Akebono -> Similar to Osiris.
Paradox -> Many RoL: draw only a little from Sundials so that you can outrun 1 miracle. Only 1 RoL: try to speed up with Sundials and then chain SoSac in order to avoid it having enough :light to play Miracle. Remember that Paradox will keep playing cards such as Improved Blessing even during SoSac wasting precious :light for playing Miracle.
FAIRLY EASY (80%-60%)
Chaos Lord -> don't draw much (Dissipation Field blocks Arsenic). The mayor issue is Discord anyway, if out early can really slow you down too much.
Scorpio -> DON'T chain SoSac since it can purify you. I prefer to rush in order to avoid letting it draw too many card (and so Purify) instead of slowing the match down.
Dark Matter -> The main problem is not having enough tower in the case a Nymph is out or massive BH.
Eternal Phoenix -> Draw as fast as you can.
Seism -> Play only 1 tower to make it waste QS (especially if you don't have enough Poisons to play anyway).
Obliterator -> Play fast. When Obliterator is out, 2 Sundials at time.
Morte -> Go slow, but try to chain SoSac when there are 1-2 RoL if there is enough damage on the field. When you're 2 turns from winning, play Sundial instead of SoSac so that Morte will waste :light on playing Archangels.
Hermes -> Play your sundials, draw and chain SoSac earlier in order to make it waste Explosions on tower. When it seems out of them, play Arsenic. Watch out for direct damage.
MEDIUM (60%-40%)
Rainbow -> Play fast with your Sundials. It's the most random God of the bunch so results may vary.
Dream Catcher -> ARRRRGGHHHH!!! I freaking hate it so much and it's the FG I met most! BE and Discord can be a lethal combo, usually (when I'm already in a bad mood) they come with 2 Pests and a Quicksand. Play fast and hope it doesn't happen. There isn't much you can do beside hoping your hand is decent and its bad.
HARD (40%-20%)
Fire Queen -> Play fast. Look closely at its :air quanta. Start chaining SoSac when there is 1 queen out and it has at 5-6 :air (if it doesn't, it's difficult it can't play another queen next turn so it's safe to wait). If you have an early Arsenic and you're lucky that it can only draw 1 Feral Bond, they kind of nullify each other. Of course it's a very hard match anyway.
Stuff like this can happen, so counts the turn you need to win:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/firequin.jpg)
Decay -> Play fast with sundials because they'll become semi-useless to stall later on (Syphons). If it has enough Pests to bring your quanta to 0, then play 2 towers at a time.Octane -> You can only hope for many EE and few/no UG at the start. Play fast.
Elidnis -> Play fast. This is hard because since it has Feral Bond, chain SoSac asap and pray (early Arsenic is a must).
Hecate -> Save Sundials if you can, try to chain SoSac asap (if there is only a 18 atk Doll, play it already).
PROHIBITIVE (<20%)
Jezebel -> Possibily there have been changes in 1.31. This is very hard because even if you chain SoSac Jezebel keeps playing its Nymph's tear, so sooner or later you're gonna face :darkness or :air or :light or :gravity which are very dangerous. So the only option is play fast. Don't bother about the Vampire Dagger since it's gonna steal your Arsenic.
Divine Glory -> Play quite slow, hope you can fight through 1 Miracle or you can force it to discard them. It's a problem if there is few damage too.
Incarnate -> SoSac sooner but don't let the chain drop so consider spending 1 sundials to get an extra draw if you only have a couple of them when you need to start chaining. Try to limit Vampires to 1. Keep the sundials for the end so that it can't heal itself. It's gonna be hard.
Miracle -> In 1.31 I hardly doubt you can make it discard many Miracles. It seems to keep them. Your only chance is to have an early Arsenic and never draw with Sundials and make it through 3 Miracles :D, which is VERY hard and long.
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/amiracle.jpg)
Ferox -> I never won. What do you expect me to say about it?I don't know what's its purpose, but if you appreciate my work and want to give me rep, I'll gladly accept it. :P
Post by: eaglgenes101 on October 31, 2012, 04:38:54 am
Post by: Sevs on October 31, 2012, 05:55:51 am
^Where'd Hermes go?
From the % in the chart it looks like he would go under Fairly Easy. Still so weird to see hermes as fairly easy on any chart
Post by: Reid4891 on October 31, 2012, 12:02:58 pm
^Where'd Hermes go?
I added it, sorry I forgot (probably 'cause it and Morte having the same %).
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on November 01, 2012, 01:11:29 am
+rep
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 17, 2012, 01:22:49 am
Post by: Higurashi on November 18, 2012, 06:30:48 am
Post by: Zillah on November 22, 2012, 01:22:41 am
Just wondering... could I make a version of this that has most of the winnage but only 4 SoSac? I'm starting to run low on patience for arena grinding.
umm...actually ive ran out of patience grinding arena for shards and had only 4 SoSacs too.
partly upped im winnig lots of games vs FGs and earned ~10upped cards today.
thats what im runnig atm until i get the missing 2SoSacs:
Post by: willng3 on November 22, 2012, 01:45:05 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on November 23, 2012, 04:58:44 am
Post by: allen.wayne.sears on December 21, 2012, 10:14:05 pm
this was the outcome of my mod in plat arena!
(http://s14.postimage.org/7vs072yoh/3000_gold_EM_in_plat.png)
Post by: kimham8a on December 22, 2012, 03:24:21 am
I love the poison dials...Oh, was that my arena deck? Because I just left it at rank 2 with 1HP for a day around 2 days ago. (and only one other person left his deck at 1HP in the top 5, but he took his deck down way before I did).
this was the outcome of my mod in plat arena!
(http://s14.postimage.org/7vs072yoh/3000_gold_EM_in_plat.png)
Mine was a speedbow with Ulitharids and SoD's, if you can remember.
Post by: allen.wayne.sears on December 22, 2012, 02:36:20 pm
Post by: SnoWeb on January 10, 2013, 09:26:10 am
Post by: kimham8a on January 10, 2013, 10:31:45 pm
Post by: rob77dp on January 11, 2013, 03:42:34 pm
I think the one posted in the OP works fine.
For the last couple of days, I've used a slight modification of the OP... -3 Bone Tower +3 Death Pendulum. As the SoD now REQUIRE :light quanta (and no longer can use any "happens to have built up" :light + remaining :death) it helps me be able to summon the SoD ASAP and even against Decay / Dream Catcher / Dark Matter if I get a decent draw. Also, the improved draws from SoSa having a 2 :death quanta cost added is quite helpful.
In summary, OP modified per above:
I have since switched to this version of PDials for FG's:
Similar to the rest, but wanted to get my stance change from using pendulums in my comment too since I changed my mind about the pend's helping...
EDIT 2013-01-19 8:03a GMT-8: Added spoilers to reduce size of post...
Post by: MeetJSquared on January 11, 2013, 06:19:01 pm
For the last couple of days, I've used a slight modification of the OP... -3 Bone Tower +3 Death Pendulum. As the SoD now REQUIRE :light quanta (and no longer can use any "happens to have built up" :light + remaining :death) it helps me be able to summon the SoD ASAP and even against Decay / Dream Catcher / Dark Matter if I get a decent draw. Also, the improved draws from SoSa having a 2 :death quanta cost added is quite helpful.
In summary, OP modified per above:
That's interesting, because I feel like I always needed more :death to make sure I don't get shorted in order to fuel SoSac. SoD is just a bonus and especially with only 3, I haven't had the need for much :light and I may not even get the SODs till endgame. Usually the mark does a sufficient job. With most FGs and opponents I've played in Plat, fueling my SoSac chain is the most important. Even with a 5:2 - Tower:Pend, I still find myself falling short of :death sometimes.
Post by: Plantifant on January 19, 2013, 01:12:16 pm
Post by: Reid4891 on January 19, 2013, 03:00:04 pm
Maybe someone has new ideas for this deck with salvagers? to bypass PC
What should you need salvagers for? Beside the fact you need :gravity or :aether to play them, the first target of PC are the sundials which means that you'll get damage even if you have salvagers.
If you're worried about having enough :death to play SoSac, I suggest to put more towers instead of SoD.
I'm currently playing this deck in Gold like this and it works fine (it wins less or more the same as before).
Post by: presspl4y on January 23, 2013, 08:55:58 pm
Anyway, I love this deck. The high EM probability with great win % against A.I. is unmatched, and being able to quickly identify if you should quit the match and move on to the next game is a great bonus. Thanks a ton for posting this deck!
Here is a win I pulled today. Thank you Poison Dials!
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9707/3kwin.jpg)
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 24, 2013, 04:04:06 am
Before 1.32 I would use Poison Dials and Nova ReadyFoPhar (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42997 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,42997)) to grind platinum arena. Other than their high win rates, these two were my favorite because as the decks in platinum changed day to day, if PDials was losing, NovaRFP would work well, and vice versa. Patch 1.32 killed NovaRFP and I've been looking for a suitable replacement since.Decks with similar strengths and weaknesses to Nova RFP include control speedbows and domination immorushes. Try taking a look here and see what looks interesting:
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45840.msg1034931.html#new
Post by: CrockettRocket on March 21, 2013, 10:50:44 pm
Post by: Reid4891 on March 23, 2013, 01:18:42 pm
On page 11. The chart for PDials shows dream catcher as hope he gets a bad hand. what would dream catchers bad hand look like? No discord or 5th turn BE? Or both. :-\
An early Discord is the worst card it can play. I'd say a bad hand for it it's an hand without Discord, Quicksand, BE and Pests. Another problem it's it having enough damage on the field to fuel your SoSac, so if it plays a fate egg and gets a good creature, that's good.
Anyway the chart has been made during 1.31. I think Dream Catchter is one of the FG who benefited the most from the 1.32 update. Now that SoSac cost 2 :death it's gonna be a lot harder to beat it.
Post by: xshadowcastx on March 29, 2013, 07:29:29 am
Post by: pulli23 on March 29, 2013, 11:56:33 am
Post by: ColorlessGreen on March 29, 2013, 11:18:34 pm
How does one play this deck vs seism? I never get enough quanta to play either enough poisons or sosacs...
It helps if you're playing a version that uses both pends and towers, for starters, but:
Play one tower at a time until you're sure he's out of earthquakes - one tower (the turn after you play it, even if it gets quaked) is enough to play any one death card in your deck. Get arsenic out ASAP. If you get unlucky and bottomdeck all of your arsenics, you've probably lost. Once you're fairly confident he doesn't have any more earthquakes right now, if you've got an arsenic out or are otherwise feeling lucky, feel free to dump any additional towers/pends you've got and keep your fingers crossed that you can put together a fairly good quanta pool before they get quaked. If you can manage an early arsenic, you can survive without some of your poisons, so if you're not already in a situation where you're confident you can sosac-chain, you might want to hold off on the poisons. You probably don't want to draw off your sundials much (if at all) due to stone skins. If you can manage it, an early sosac will force him to burrow his shriekers, which will remain burrowed indefinitely, which helps a lot in keeping alive. If you can manage it, it's a good idea to hold some sundials until you're confident that your quanta pool will take you through the game just in case you have bad luck with getting enough for your sosacs.
TL;DR: get arsenic ASAP, don't draw (usually) from sundials, use pends, no more than one each tower/pend on the table at a time until you're sure he has no quakes in hand.
Post by: iancudorinmarian on October 04, 2013, 10:09:55 am
Ferox should be changed to "very hard" :D
Post by: antiaverage on October 04, 2013, 02:00:24 pm
Post by: timetock on October 05, 2013, 03:26:54 am
on another note, it's really easy to get EM with this deck and get a 700 :electrum gain from plat
Post by: Sevs on December 21, 2013, 07:57:28 am
Post by: Higurashi on December 21, 2013, 08:07:08 am
Second best for FG's and the highest winrate (ignoring Malignant Ball That Could due to lack of testing): http://elementscommunity.org/forum/farming-studies-and-statistics/the-return-of-fgei-(for-v1-32x)/msg1080638/#msg1080638
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 21, 2013, 08:22:32 am
Post by: Sevs on December 23, 2013, 08:05:25 am
Best deck for Gold and Plat in testing: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/farming-studies-and-statistics/decks-used-against-arena-with-stats-1-32/msg1030569/#msg1030569
Second best for FG's and the highest winrate (ignoring Malignant Ball That Could due to lack of testing): http://elementscommunity.org/forum/farming-studies-and-statistics/the-return-of-fgei-(for-v1-32x)/msg1080638/#msg1080638
Some interesting decks there, thanks for the link.
Post by: Nautalis. on January 04, 2014, 09:42:22 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on January 07, 2014, 04:44:42 am
Post by: CuCN on January 08, 2014, 01:03:31 am
Post by: Gandora on November 18, 2014, 08:57:32 am
I am currently playing with this version and was curious to hear pro's and con's compared to the deck in the OP.
In the 20 games or so I played against FG's, I couldn't really notice any drawbacks.
Post by: Generation_G34 on November 18, 2014, 10:28:02 am
I am currently playing with this version and was curious to hear pro's and con's compared to the deck in the OP.
In the 20 games or so I played against FG's, I couldn't really notice any drawbacks.
Pro: Faster damage (though it would be hard to get AW and Arsen out faster unless you get a good draw)
Con: CC (obviously), And slower damage
i know your like, what? Faster&Slower?
Well it really depends on you draw. With a nice draw, you would win significantly faster. Though with a bad draw it would
be much much slower.
Also, i doubt you would need that many arsens, you could remove 1-2 and replace with DPs.
Post by: CrockettRocket on November 18, 2014, 06:44:55 pm
Post by: Defrox on January 26, 2015, 04:48:15 pm
I'm using this deck for Gold Arena farming. Quite good, though I swapped 2 SoSacs to 2 Luciferins. I don't have six, and nice for saving me if accidently my life drops below 40. By the way, everyone seems to forget that it's much faster to farm the Gold Arena than the FG-s.
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 26, 2015, 06:12:31 pm
Gold isn't strictly faster then gods though. When an EM only gets you 1/5th of what an upgrade would sell for, and relying on special spins to get the real income, gods will still be faster the majority of the time.
I'm using this deck for Gold Arena farming. Quite good, though I swapped 2 SoSacs to 2 Luciferins. I don't have six, and nice for saving me if accidently my life drops below 40. By the way, everyone seems to forget that it's much faster to farm the Gold Arena than the FG-s.
Post by: CrockettRocket on January 26, 2015, 06:18:33 pm
Replace them with holy light, gives more consistancy as holy light costs 1 light and lucifrin costs 2 :rainbow, also overall the costs is cheaper and you're not using luci for the creatures. Upped holy light, holy flash, is free.
I'm using this deck for Gold Arena farming. Quite good, though I swapped 2 SoSacs to 2 Luciferins. I don't have six, and nice for saving me if accidently my life drops below 40. By the way, everyone seems to forget that it's much faster to farm the Gold Arena than the FG-s.
Post by: Defrox on January 26, 2015, 06:43:00 pm
Post by: Ghaladh on July 13, 2015, 10:21:04 pm
I am using this slight variation and it has a little more chances of victory in Platinum.
It's still very weak against Pestal or Quanta denial.
It automatically loses against any deck with healing, especially with Purify, however; practically any deck with Darkness (Vampires), Life, Light or Water are off limit for this deck. The win rate is not exalting, but with some luck it grants you a few special spins every hour.
It often grants you EM, that in Platinum is very rewarding, economically.
Post by: Barragor on August 30, 2015, 02:02:18 pm
Chaining sosacs to prevent carddraw and getting lucky (only 1 miracle happened)
Post by: Luminous on August 30, 2015, 04:18:36 pm
I think you'll be happy to know that I beat Miracle with this today :)
Chaining sosacs to prevent carddraw and getting lucky (only 1 miracle happened)
You can't prevent card-draw (except for nightmare) so I assume you talked about discarding
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on August 31, 2015, 01:27:17 am
I think you'll be happy to know that I beat Miracle with this today :)
Chaining sosacs to prevent carddraw and getting lucky (only 1 miracle happened)
You can't prevent card-draw so I assume you talked about discarding
I think I know what he's talking about, and it's a legit tactic that I've also used against FGs with Miracle.
There are many cards an AI won't play while you have the Sacrifice status, so by chaining them at the right time you can keep its hand full — slowing its card draw because it only has space for 1 per turn.
Post by: Luminous on August 31, 2015, 04:45:38 am
I think you'll be happy to know that I beat Miracle with this today :)
Chaining sosacs to prevent carddraw and getting lucky (only 1 miracle happened)
You can't prevent card-draw so I assume you talked about discarding
I think I know what he's talking about, and it's a legit tactic that I've also used against FGs with Miracle.
There are many cards an AI won't play while you have the Sacrifice status, so by chaining them at the right time you can keep its hand full — slowing its card draw because it only has space for 1 per turn.
That's basically what I said when I wrote 'I assume you talked about discarding'
And I obviously know what you're talking about but that's not preventing card-draw, its slowing it
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on August 31, 2015, 12:02:13 pm
@Barragor, you meant "reduce carddraw" basically, right?
Post by: Luminous on August 31, 2015, 12:15:39 pm
He was not talking about discarding. He was talking about making the AI draw 1 card instead of 2, how is this not preventing card draw?
@Barragor, you meant "reduce carddraw" basically, right?
The major advantage isn't Miracle not drawing miracles, he will eventually draw it. The advantage SoSac gives is that Ai discards high cost cards, so he can't prevent card draw without nightmare, FG will still draw 1 card and that's more 'minor' So yeah this isn't fully preventing card draw, its slowing it.
He won because he used SoSac and Miracle discarded Miracles because of their high cost. That is the main thing that makes you win against FGs with Miracles, of course slowing down the draw can help but PDial isn't so fast and Miracle will eventually draw Miracles.
So Miracle MAY or MAY NOT had Miracle in hand, but if it was, he SURE discarded it. So discard advantage > slowing down the draw
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on August 31, 2015, 12:19:27 pm
Ai discards high cost cards
I did not know that. I'm sorry I doubted you.
Post by: Luminous on August 31, 2015, 12:27:19 pm
Ai discards high cost cards
I did not know that. I'm sorry I doubted you.
Oh I'm sorry I didn't know what he was talking about. I'm sorry I doubted me.
Post by: Spacious on September 02, 2015, 05:09:36 am
I've had Limitless Speed for 3 days and farmed the money for this deck and upping the rest of LS. I've had this deck for ONE day and I've farmed enough electrum to make THREE upped Limitless Speeds.
This isn't a stall deck, it's insanely fast. Petition to be named Extreme Speed (heh)
But seriously, it's great.
Post by: Luminous on September 02, 2015, 05:51:19 am
If it was fast, you wouldn't need 15 stalling cards.
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on September 02, 2015, 10:47:51 am
heeded the advice of UndeadSpider
Lol yay meeeee XD
Post by: Heman on September 04, 2015, 03:20:14 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/A5Y8kc3.png?1)
Post by: Barragor on September 09, 2015, 09:50:04 am
EMed ferox 3 minutes ago :D(http://i.imgur.com/A5Y8kc3.png?1)
Nice! Good job man :D
I think I know what he's talking about, and it's a legit tactic that I've also used against FGs with Miracle.I think you'll be happy to know that I beat Miracle with this today :)
Chaining sosacs to prevent carddraw and getting lucky (only 1 miracle happened)
You can't prevent card-draw so I assume you talked about discarding
There are many cards an AI won't play while you have the Sacrifice status, so by chaining them at the right time you can keep its hand full — slowing its card draw because it only has space for 1 per turn.
That's basically what I said when I wrote 'I assume you talked about discarding'
And I obviously know what you're talking about but that's not preventing card-draw, its slowing it
Maybe the terminology isn't completely accurate, but you can prevent an FG from drawing two cards a turn.
-Yes it still draws one card a turn.
-No I don't care.
I disagree with this statement from the OP though:
"Dark Matter - Easy - Even with BH denial, no Healing no PC = easy win."
If he gets a nymph out you won't have light quanta anymore. If he gets a second one out he will deny your death quanta too.
The nymphs also heal him so he doesn't drop down too fast.
Maybe I have bad luck, but I have lost I think 50% of the time due to nymphs.
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on September 09, 2015, 10:37:18 am
I disagree with this statement from the OP though:
"Dark Matter - Easy - Even with BH denial, no Healing no PC = easy win."
If he gets a nymph out you won't have light quanta anymore. If he gets a second one out he will deny your death quanta too.
The nymphs also heal him so he doesn't drop down too fast.
Maybe I have bad luck, but I have lost I think 50% of the time due to nymphs.
I agree with you. Dark Matter can shut you down if it gets those Nymphs, and the regular Blackholes can slow you down while he's hoping to draw them. I'd say it's a Medium difficulty
Post by: Aves on September 10, 2015, 03:23:25 pm
Post by: Barragor on February 22, 2017, 11:21:51 am
And Miracle is not impossible! I'd say it's a Hard fg but I've beaten him many times with this deck.
Just chain up the SoSacs! :D
Post by: antiaverage on February 22, 2017, 01:55:14 pm
This is still the best FG deck around, isn't it?
I still prefer http://elementscommunity.org/forum/rainbow-decks/voodoo-bravery-(fg)(arena)(fast)(focused)/
VDB is a medium difficulty against Miracle