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MrBlonde

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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg465434#msg465434
« Reply #108 on: February 28, 2012, 09:05:10 am »
I do like the direction we are going in though and hopefully i can keep my title one more time and reach the penultimate goal of Grandmaster.
Just curious: If Grandmaster is the penultimate goal, then what is the Ultimate goal???
Beating me.
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Offline MyNameIsJoey

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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg466126#msg466126
« Reply #109 on: March 01, 2012, 02:14:01 am »
For final battle

'with the current banning system, there could be a way to ''protect'' a ban by using 10 points. What I mean is , by using those 10 points on this card it cannot be banned by your opponent.

the number of points could be changed ofcourse, was to illustrate my thought.
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Offline ~Napalm

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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg466622#msg466622
« Reply #110 on: March 03, 2012, 04:26:11 am »
Having completed the Trials experience, I can say without a doubt that Shards should never be allowed in PvP of any sort, for any reason. Other than that, I don't have much to add. Masters having the option to earn more points in Phase 1, key word being earn, would be appealing. Allowing Challengers to face even more opponents as sort of an activity bonus would also be something to explore, with a limit of course. As for the Final Battle, I still feel that we were allowed too many bans. I have a feeling part of the reason so many were allowed was because Shards were allowed which further increases my enmity. Not having the "use a given element once" restriction was a major plus though, regardless of how much it may have killed me.
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Offline Jenkar

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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg466625#msg466625
« Reply #111 on: March 03, 2012, 04:35:01 am »
Having completed the Trials experience, I can say without a doubt that Shards should never be allowed in PvP of any sort, for any reason.
I beg to disagree with this. The only shard that i find powerful - but not game breaking - is SoD. Shard of sacrifice failed everyone who used it so far, which was what i expected. SoG has been nerfed correctly, and other shards seem to not pose problems to anybody. Can you devellop your reasonning?
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Offline Onizuka

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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg466627#msg466627
« Reply #112 on: March 03, 2012, 04:44:35 am »
SoSac failed because the amount of bans pushed the overall meta towards stalling. I think SoSac was against one true creature deck (My waterbow) in which steamies rock the sox off it.
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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg466680#msg466680
« Reply #113 on: March 03, 2012, 08:05:16 am »
SoSac failed because the amount of bans pushed the overall meta towards stalling. I think SoSac was against one true creature deck (My waterbow) in which steamies rock the sox off it.
Your point is? Balance is metagame dependent. The number of bans severely weakens SoSac to the point of balance or even being underpowered.

Additionally all masters should be able to beat SoSac.
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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg466701#msg466701
« Reply #114 on: March 03, 2012, 09:17:18 am »
I disagree with the amount of banning power from this trials. I personally thought it was too much, with the chance with a smaller amount of bans leaning towards a meta where SoSac is stronger than it is here.

In general I dislike shards in PvP anyway.
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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg467054#msg467054
« Reply #115 on: March 04, 2012, 03:56:39 am »
Additionally all masters should be able to beat SoSac.
Just because you might be great or decent at PvP doesn't mean something like that should be allowed. people could beat firestall, but it doesnt mean it skewed everything.
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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg467058#msg467058
« Reply #116 on: March 04, 2012, 04:01:42 am »
Additionally all masters should be able to beat SoSac.
Just because you might be great or decent at PvP doesn't mean something like that should be allowed. people could beat firestall, but it doesnt mean it skewed everything.
SoSac is vulnerable to skill in a way (magnitude) few cards are.
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MrBlonde

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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg467117#msg467117
« Reply #117 on: March 04, 2012, 05:48:11 am »
SoSac failed because the amount of bans pushed the overall meta towards stalling. I think SoSac was against one true creature deck (My waterbow) in which steamies rock the sox off it.
Your point is? Balance is metagame dependent. The number of bans severely weakens SoSac to the point of balance or even being underpowered.

Additionally all masters should be able to beat SoSac.
i think honestly the only trial SoSac was almost a mandatory ban was :death's. The only reason it wouldn't be banned by Ralouf is if he thought i didn't have a full set of them.  Man i couldn't imagine having had to deal with SoSac this trials.

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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg467143#msg467143
« Reply #118 on: March 04, 2012, 07:23:34 am »
SoSac failed because the amount of bans pushed the overall meta towards stalling. I think SoSac was against one true creature deck (My waterbow) in which steamies rock the sox off it.
Your point is? Balance is metagame dependent. The number of bans severely weakens SoSac to the point of balance or even being underpowered.

Additionally all masters should be able to beat SoSac.
i think honestly the only trial SoSac was almost a mandatory ban was :death's. The only reason it wouldn't be banned by Ralouf is if he thought i didn't have a full set of them.  Man i couldn't imagine having had to deal with SoSac this trials.
SoSac is much harder in the Death trials because it is harder to anticipate and Death's damage is harder to scale back. It would have been a challenge but I think you(MrBlonde) would triumph against SoSac. SoSac is greatly vulnerable to skill and you are very skilled.
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Re: 5th Trials - Suggestions and Feedback https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35926.msg467781#msg467781
« Reply #119 on: March 05, 2012, 04:37:22 pm »
Hopefully I covered everything. I tried to attack the issues not the people. :))

Sign Ups:
Having Phase I then sign ups was a good idea and something that was definitely needed. Challengers were getting kicked from the elements they wanted by another Challenger that eventually quit Trials. Even with this change, the amount of Phase I completion only dropped from 26 to 25. I have no doubt it will jump above 30 at the next Trials.

As far as the requirements to sign up are concerned.. how can a Jr. Member be considered a Master?

Phase I: (misc Tasks)
<< Proving of Worthiness - non-PvP >>
As this is now, it's more of who's willing to do work, as opposed to a Challenger proving that they understand their element. In Trials #5, there was no quality control (granted most people did take it seriously), but a Challenger could have made a card that had a cost of 1 and was 20/20 and a picture of a dot.

As has been stated in previous posts, there should be more options that can be selected from based on each Challenger's preference.

- Create-a-Card -
While creating cards is fun... what point did this have as far as becoming a Master?
As a spectator, I want to know if a Challenger understands the game as a whole. When they create a card, they should explain how that card would affect the meta, and what impact it would have on the game and also War. Someone who understands, would be able to adapt to changes, otherwise someone else will end up having to take over in War, thus making the Master unworthy to represent his element.

- Deck Help / Deck Review -
I never got this as a task. In not being able to use previous posts, this discourages helping people before Trials. What if someone helped on every thread? If they want to be Master, they couldn't do that.
Would it be better for the Challenger to build and post a deck, possibly a new deck or one any of the previous Wars? Why was this deck effective (or not)? What are possible counters to it?

... other options ...

- Deck vs the Arena -
This was done in the past to 'help' players farm the Arena. Help is in quotes because the restrictions nullified this. When someone builds a deck vs anything, never do they say to themselves: 'I think I won't use any of the most effective cards because that would be silly.' Bring this option back, but don't have restrictions. Let people pick any element they want (preferably an element they want to be a Challenger in), then they build a deck at 50% of that element. They state what level of Arena this deck is for and explain how it's played. It should either be fully upped or with no upped cards.

- Deck vs Ai3 -
Players would have to be a lot more creative if they choose this option as there have been hundreds of decks submitted for Ai3. This will show the creative side of a player... creativity is a major plus in War.

- Wiki Article -
Pick something and write about it. This is for those that like writing.


Since this is 'Proving of Worthiness'... Masters should get a set amount of points bonus in this round... if, AND ONLY IF, they complete the required tasks. In being Master they have already showed their worthiness, and in completing the tasks, they prove that they're still dedicated. The bonus doesn't need to be too high, possibly 3 or 5 points.

Phase II: (Battles!)
- Challenger Battles -
The absolute main thing about being a Master is representing your element in War. Leading a team is a lot of work and someone who isn't the greatest PvPer will end up buckling under the pressure and look to their 'lower ranked' teammates to do what they should be able to do themselves.

The rules change in every Trials. ... This is a good thing... In War, you don't always know what to expect, so you need to be flexible, and Trials can help with this.

For this Trials, I don't know if the bans were really necessary for 'on-element' battles. If opposite element battles happen again, then there can be bans for those. As far as off-element cards, I think it's a consensus that 6 cards limits creativity too much. In War you can use up to 50%, but as most people have said, 9 is a good amount.

Maybe next Trials, will be against your own element and one other random element?

For the points system, it should be adjusted to for elements that don't have the maximum amount of Challengers.


- Masters Tournament -
The main thing with this is that players need more time. What if the tournament was held right after Trials? All the Masters are still present and the points could just be added to the next Trials, if the Master still chooses to participate.
Again the off-element cards would be increase to 9 and all other rules would be the same.
Byes could be random or given to returning Masters. -or- the format could be changed to pools.
The point totals could be better distributed as well. As of now, only 2 Masters will be guaranteed more Phase II points than their most likely opponent. There should be very little difference between a Master who got last place and a Challenger who got first place. Then the points don't really need to shoot up very high from there. So 'most' Masters would have more points, while a few would have slightly less.

Phase III: (Voting)
This is the Phase that doesn't need much change... but there is one thing I would like seen changed.
People should be able to cast 2 votes (possibly only if a Master is in the polls). Often times, people will vote for a Challenger just to try and move him past another Challenger, even if they feel the Master is more worthy.
Having two votes means you can vote for the two people you feel deserve to fight for Mastership. If you feel there's only one deserving person, then you can just vote for one person.

Phase IV: (Final Battle)
There were way, way, way too many bans allowed.... Bans are so a player can show their ability to adapt, but there doesn't need to be 10-12 bans. 6 was a good amount. Maybe allow for joint-bans.. cards both players agree to not play (For instance: Dimensional Shield, Discord, Nova).
With having so many bans, the matches turned into stall battles, based on a lot of permanents, since most people banned Steal and Deflagration. Rush decks were only used to catch an opponent offguard, but rarely worked.

Shards should not be allowed. Anyone who actually plays PvP knows this. Everyone else, play some PvP first and then come back and state your opinion.
This talk about skill beating Shard of Sacrifice is absurd. Unless you're willing to sit at 9 damage per turn and hope your opponent doesn't just outrush you, Shard of Sacrifice can effectively be used against you.
'But SoSac costs 40 HP, so as long as you're below 20 damage/turn you should be fine, right?' NO, NO and NO.
Let's say you're doing 15 dmg/turn, without SoSac your opponent will take 30 damage in 2 turns.
--- With SoSac they will take 10 damage in 2 turns.
We'll see if you beat anyone with 1.5 creatures worth of damage, while your opponent can just play what they want.
Not to mention, many players paired their SoSac with SoD so you couldn't sneak them below 40 HP.

 

blarg: