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Opponents, Strategy and Decks => The Arena => Topic started by: Provolone on November 01, 2011, 04:42:32 pm

Title: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Provolone on November 01, 2011, 04:42:32 pm
So, do you rate reasonable the decks that defeat you in arena ?
I mean, you give thumbs down for the decks that are common sense (like mono aether and GotP/Nightmare) or you give thumbs down to the decks that annoys you even know its a valid deck idea?
Just curiosity =}
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Jappert on November 01, 2011, 04:49:53 pm
Instant Thumbs Down:
- Mono :fire (basic ones)
- Oraclebows (basic ones)
- Immorush
- Ghostmare
- Death rushes
- Poisonrush with SoSa
- Mono :darkness (basic ones)

Stuff like that.

Thumbs up:
- Original deckbuilding
- Fun Decks
- Strong inventive decks
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: xsindomanx on November 01, 2011, 04:51:48 pm
I usually just thumb down when there are really uncreative decks like: cremation lava rush, graboid, mono aether, and that sort of stuff. But if I sometimes see a deck that I simply really hate and would never use as a nice person, I might also thumb that down :P

EDIT: People still use oraclebows? x-x
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Djhopper :) on November 01, 2011, 05:06:26 pm
I only vote down all the "same old" stuff that's already been posted. Or if I get really pissed off at a deck!
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Picheleiro on November 01, 2011, 05:14:00 pm
Instant Thumbs Down:
- Mono :fire (basic ones)
- Oraclebows (basic ones) I really dont know how to see if a deck its a basic Oraclebow
- Immorush
- Ghostmare THIS.
- Death rushes (basic ones)
- Poisonrush with SoSa
- Mono :darkness (basic ones)
This. Copy paste decks.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: rickerd on November 01, 2011, 05:22:57 pm
Thumb down for:
- decks that are just stupid (can't use oracle card)
-  :fire, :death& :darkness rush
-  :aether stall
-  :air& :light diving sh*t
- Fg remakes
- most bows
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Djhopper :) on November 01, 2011, 05:23:34 pm
Instant Thumbs Down:
- Mono :fire (basic ones)
- Oraclebows (basic ones) I really dont know how to see if a deck its a basic Oraclebow
- Immorush
- Ghostmare THIS.
- Death rushes (basic ones)
- Poisonrush with SoSa
- Mono :darkness (basic ones)
This. Copy paste decks.
You allow immorushes?

Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Picheleiro on November 01, 2011, 05:52:00 pm
It depends on the immorush. If the term talks about to use Immo to make an aggro deck, I dontsee it bad.

If Im wrong and it talk about Freecreature+Immo+Golem/BigPhoenix+"Twoelementscreatures" and a pair of deflagrations, no. Its a copypaste deck.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: willng3 on November 01, 2011, 06:21:23 pm
Thumbs down:
-Dead Oracle cards
-Firestalls
-Ghostmares
-Water/Death Poison duos
-Mono Aether
-Antagon Graboid Rainbow duplicates
-Mono Fire rushes (with or without CC, I see them as the same really)
-Discord/BH (depends on what else is thrown in though)
-Shrieker rushes
-Anything that duplicates a False God or a False God killer
-SoSa spam decks

 The list is much longer than this; I'm pretty picky with what I consider original.

Thumbs up:
-Unusual combo decks
-Life decks (I can't imagine why)
-Decks which make good use of a rather useless Oracle Card.

I'm really not bothered by decks which are frustratingly difficult to beat so long as they're original.

Incidentally I'm guilty of putting up unoriginal decks from time to time simply because I enjoy seeing how well they do for myself once - and only once.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Brontos on November 01, 2011, 06:45:22 pm
If I'm surprised by a card or a combo, thumbs up. If I smile during the fight, thumbs up.
If not, thumbs down. If I'm pissed, thumbs down (ghostmare are a nearly garanteed down).  8)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Calindu on November 01, 2011, 07:01:36 pm
Thumbs down:
-Speedbows with cards splashed in.
-Ghostmare(Unless the card is nightmare)
-Firestall, even with fire bolt/RoF you can make a stall faster and you have lots of combos with rage potion
-SoSa spam decks, seriously, you lock them down the loss by deck-out?
-Mono aether
-Dead marks just for SoG bonus
-Oraclebows
-Immorushes
-Decks with dead cards

Thumbs up:
-Pillarless SN bows(Gemfinders/RoL's/Damsels)
-Strange decks based on unusual combos
-Peggy rush
-Dis/hole
-Any deck that uses catapult/cat ability/chimera/sky blitz/solar shield/aflatoxin/nymph tears/iridium wardens.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: ralouf on November 01, 2011, 09:01:43 pm
Actually I thumbs down most of the well known deck or ove used in arena decks like those guys said before.

I thumbs up every original deck, really !

And I dunno what thumbs really mean.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on November 01, 2011, 10:24:47 pm
Generally thumbs-up is a sign of approval, and thumbs-down is a sign of disapproval, similar to a smile or a frown respectively.

In any case, I generally judge decks by a few metrics.

First, see how much thought went into the deck. If it is just an oraclebow that ignores the oraclecard, probably not much thought. Same with a standard firestall or immorush. An example contrary just today are a rainbow that depended heavily on the death aspect, vultures, lots of mass CC, cats, a graveyard... and pulvy to take care of the PC half. As for the immorush, I generally agree, if it is used just as an aggro enhancer I'm fine with it, for example if you actually throw in some rainbow towers to enhance the rainbow aspect and turn it into a half/firerush half rainbow.

Next is the league they are in. I know I've thumbs-upped a deck in gold that I wouldn't have in plat, simply because in gold its not expected of them to have every card imaginable. Also, its a lot rougher there to stay afloat with the increased player base + decreased points to buff the decks.

But as to the original post, I never thumbs-down a deck merely because it frustrates me, partly because I know that had I picked a different farmer I'd have probably crushed it like a pancake unless it was one of the big 'staple' decks anyway. And even 'those' have decks that obliterate them, decks that actually work against a wide variety of decks.

SoSa - 500 HP EM deck, purple nymph heavy anti-matter, A deck that combines Purify + Eternity.
Firestall - Not even that strong anymore, but SoR Pharaoh, Defensive CCYB, Disc-Hole.
Ghostmare - SoR Pharaoh, Ghostmare sometimes, purple nymph anti-matter, sometimes Disc-Hole.
Mono-Aether - Mono-Gravity, Defensive CCYB with Pulvy, sometimes Disc-Hole.

So if I lose a match in this manner, its usually because I mis-read the metagame or an accepted loss to beat the usual metagame, not because I 'had' to lose. Granted SoSa is the hardest to deal with, but even it can be beaten, and its actually not prevalent enough to warrant switching to a deck that does. I mainly 'do' take issue with Arena SoSa though because by itself it 'will' win games, even if the entire rest of the deck is 100% neutered. I remember losing to a deck that played literally nothing 'but' SoSa, chance it was supposed to be a farm though. But if I ever get 'that' bothered by it I'll just throw an eternity into a deck with some healing and call it a day.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: furballdn on November 02, 2011, 12:09:23 am
Instant thumbs down:
immorush
mono aether
unoriginal SNbows
using oracle cards as dead cards
ghostmare
SoX
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Tusck on November 02, 2011, 04:44:32 am
I'd really like the option to rate decks I beat as well.  Decks that really challenged me.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: zombie0 on November 02, 2011, 08:25:29 am
the point is that everyone is voting up or down for different reasons.  this defeats the point of voting since my downvote means something different than yours.

so voting has no value to players...i never get feedback on my deck, you never get my feedback.  whats the point some might wonder...

perhaps to counterbalance the recently raised cost of arena (from 15 to 20), which is a blatant 5 :electrum nerf to winning?  was it really necessary to do that to bronze, were people profiting so much before?

i do not understand this game design.  i do not understand SoS.  i do not understand a CCG that refuses to allow equal card availability (nymphs etc).  please, someone explain
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Picheleiro on November 02, 2011, 09:36:22 am
perhaps to counterbalance the recently raised cost of arena (from 15 to 20), which is a blatant 5 :electrum nerf to winning?  was it really necessary to do that to bronze, were people profiting so much before?

i do not understand this game design.  i do not understand SoS.  i do not understand a CCG that refuses to allow equal card availability (nymphs etc).  please, someone explain
I believe that you get more  :electrum in False God griding than in Arena one. Bronze its for rares, wich is REALLY important for players. I dont have friends playing this game, and also dont know very much people in forum so i cant get shard but Arena. And its REALLY slow.

I dont like the system of nymphs too, but maybe it supports the Leagues and so. Dont know.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: druidnia on November 02, 2011, 03:00:21 pm
I'm farming bronze for rares and money, and I only tend to lose to ghostmare, and that always gets a thumbdown.
Any other deck that beats me gets a thumbs up at present, having read the comments above I will look out for some of the decks mentioned.

As I like designing my own decks I have avoided looking at other decks (except a few FG beaters, and the ROL/Hope) so I dont know all these decks people have mentioned.

What is a "dead card"?
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: willng3 on November 02, 2011, 03:08:46 pm
What is a "dead card"?
A card that you get from the Oracle that isn't playable by the deck built.  For instance if your Oracle card is Flooding and you build a Mono Aether deck with no access to :water, then Flooding is a dead card.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: druidnia on November 02, 2011, 05:32:05 pm
I did wonder if that might be what was meant, But I thought its pretty stupids to build a deck with 5 useless cards, I guess people do it though.
I enjoy building a new deck most days based around the Oracle card.

Thanks for clarifying it for me.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Tom Bombadil on November 02, 2011, 07:33:52 pm
Instant thumbs down:
-any fire deck (fire stall, immorush, etc.)
-ghostmare
-monoaether
-any deck with shard spam

The other losses are thumbs up, especially the ones that make good use of underused oracle cards
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: parasite99 on November 02, 2011, 07:39:02 pm
I don't think all people vote with same criteria. Today I built a mono  :water with some SoRs and I don't think I got any thumbs up while 6-0 atm.
While mono  :darkness and rainbows with same wins all have much more rating than my deck  :(

I think splat deck-users just get frustrated when they loose a game and just thumb down any deck that beats them...

I usually thumbs up all original decks also btw. And thumbs down to firestall, immorushes, ghostmare, dead card decks and rainbows (yes all of them, cause most people just add 5 orcle cards in a deck that they submit week after week). Also most times I thumbs up duo and trio decks (especially the last).
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: ralouf on November 02, 2011, 08:42:48 pm
To answer to you parasite, even if I sometimes I feel very frustrated vs some original decks I'll thumbs them up. I hope other people will do it if they face me and I have an original deck (currently it is a flying dagger deck).
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: nerd1 on November 02, 2011, 10:10:21 pm
perhaps to counterbalance the recently raised cost of arena (from 15 to 20), which is a blatant 5 :electrum nerf to winning?  was it really necessary to do that to bronze, were people profiting so much before?

i do not understand this game design.  i do not understand SoS.  i do not understand a CCG that refuses to allow equal card availability (nymphs etc).  please, someone explain
I believe that you get more  :electrum in False God griding than in Arena one. Bronze its for rares, wich is REALLY important for players. I dont have friends playing this game, and also dont know very much people in forum so i cant get shard but Arena. And its REALLY slow.

I dont like the system of nymphs too, but maybe it supports the Leagues and so. Dont know.
zanz did this because you get an extra 5 :electrum for reviewing a deck, so in the end you will get more money, and if someone gives your deck a thumbs up you get an extra 5 electrum.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: wespebbles50 on November 02, 2011, 10:36:21 pm
Any known ones like ghostmare and firestall always get thumbs down but creative decks like a vamp adren and a poison stall i think is creative and i hope my deck is fun it's wyrm chaos and sky blitz
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Sal on November 03, 2011, 05:42:44 am
To be honest i thumb down no matter what.
My winning streak "broke" and i´m pissed - i don´t care who beat me or how uncreative that deck was.

I know i will get flamed for this, but its not like i´m treating anyone different, thus nobody should have a reason to complain  :-*
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Plantifant on November 03, 2011, 04:18:21 pm
To be honest i thumb down no matter what.
My winning streak "broke" and i´m pissed - i don´t care who beat me or how uncreative that deck was.

I know i will get flamed for this, but its not like i´m treating anyone different, thus nobody should have a reason to complain  :-*
I indeed find this really stupid..
Thumbing down because of rage is just stupid, it has nothing to do with the game..
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Rainchild on November 03, 2011, 07:17:16 pm
Well, I built as "fun" a deck I could, and it gets only thumb-downs.
Its not the system that is flawed, its the players.

5 electrum? Not enough to stop the haters from hating.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on November 03, 2011, 07:52:26 pm
Actually even if they thumbs down they still get their 5 electrum back.

But yeah, in Bronze / Silver you'll generally get the lower tier players playing who rage when they lose. Up in Gold / Platinum its actually working quite nicely. (Assuming sorta in gold, but least for me in plat its going well.)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Bhlewos on November 03, 2011, 08:14:15 pm
Instant Thumbs Down:
- Mono :fire (basic ones)
- Oraclebows (basic ones)
- Immorush
- Ghostmare
- Death rushes
- Poisonrush with SoSa
- Mono :darkness (basic ones)

Stuff like that.

Thumbs up:
- Original deckbuilding
- Fun Decks
- Strong inventive decks
Basically what he said, except I'd add Mono-Aether to the instant thumbs-down list (on the embarrassing occasions when I lose to them). Seems like it's the go-to Arena deck for newbies.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Rainchild on November 03, 2011, 08:54:37 pm
Up in Gold / Platinum its actually working quite nicely.
I'm in platinum also, but my mutation/graveyard deck(s) have so far gotten only 1 thumbs up.
The pump-up physalias were 12 wins 1 loss, and got 2 thumbs up.

I don't even care about the top ranks, I change decks almost daily. Maybe I get thumbs down because they are only fun, and not competitive enough?

I myself thumb down only the really basic fire-decks in platinum, and mono aether in bronze.

The silver and gold seem to have more variety, I've not yet thumbed down any deck there.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on November 03, 2011, 08:57:50 pm
Up in Gold / Platinum its actually working quite nicely.
I'm in platinum also, but my mutation/graveyard deck(s) have so far gotten only 1 thumbs up.
The pump-up physalias were 12 wins 1 loss, and got 2 thumbs up.

I don't even care about the top ranks, I change decks almost daily. Maybe I get thumbs down because they are only fun, and not competitive enough?

I myself thumb down only the really basic fire-decks in platinum, and mono aether in bronze.

The silver and gold seem to have more variety, I've not yet thumbed down any deck there.
Problem with Mutation deck is that both the ai doesn't know how to optimally use mutation, but more importantly that players that see just about 'any' rainbow automatically assume some kind of oracle bow. And Physila poison is generally seen as "lol :death :water stall seen it". Or you threw SoSa's into the physila deck because they fit, everyone rages at SoSa's it seems.

((And I say good for me because half the people facing my deck rated it up, and I imagine most of the others just raged at the aggravating denial aspect))
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mesaprotector on November 07, 2011, 05:56:10 am
Rate down:
Unoriginal rainbows which don't really use the oracle card
Decks which completely ignore the oracle card
Typical mono-fire or -aether
Other common decks like GotP-nightmare and speed poison

Rate up:
Anything I haven't seen before
Decks which use the oracle card creatively

Except when I'm playing gold league. Then I rate down everything except my own deck. :P
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Brontos on November 21, 2011, 05:43:47 am
I think that "perma thumb down" is new tendency in platinium. :)

I think in the last week, I got less than 10% thumbs up. Which I can understand when I play SoSac, but I don't get it when I play a fun deck with Anubis, or whatever original card I got in Oracle.

Is it only me?
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mesaprotector on November 21, 2011, 05:54:26 am
Nope, people seem to be really stingy with their thumbs up. I probably thumb up about a third of the decks that beat me, and that seems to be about average. Even when I ran a catapult/voodoo doll deck I got 0/5 thumbs up. :/
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: CCCombobreaker on November 21, 2011, 06:02:34 am
I ran cat-tal, fractal spark/virus with bonewall, PU life dragons, and something else that was weird this last week.  They all went between 2-7 and 6-10, and I don't think I got a single thumbs up in plat.  I dunno what to do to get a thumbs up.  And in my quest to be original I have made 1/6 what I made the week I left firestall up for 6 days.  What's the point of being quirky and losing?

And I thumbs up anything that doesn't make me sadpandaface in BL.  Which means I really only thumbs down ghostmare, firestall, and devtal.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: teffy on November 21, 2011, 12:15:35 pm
I think, I still have to find a guideline for myself.  My rules (could be edited soon):

thumbs down:
- Decks, which don´t use oracle card
- "Flood Control" - these annoying decks which destroy your permanents with an unnatural number of perm control (EQ,Deflag)
- SoS (I don´t really accept this card , especially not in Arena), also SoSe (not balanced in rainbows, yet)

thumbs up:
- decks with >2 colors (not 12), which perform surprisingly well
- original decks
- change in #1 position.
- close matches with turning points.


Quote
I think in the last week, I got less than 10% thumbs up.
How can you measure that ? Is it the double amount of electrums I sometimes get ?

Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Brontos on November 21, 2011, 12:21:50 pm
10 or 20 electrums per win is how you know how much thumbs up you got.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Plantifant on November 21, 2011, 02:25:07 pm
Same thing happens to me too.
Most original decks, and no thumbs up..
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on November 21, 2011, 03:27:52 pm
Yeah, I think the thumbs down is a new trend too, from latest results.

What's the point of being quirky and losing?
There is none. The catch is to be quirky and win. I can see how it'd be hard to do this, but it 'is' possible, I'd like to think I've proven that. As it turns out I had a whole lot more to say on the subject than I thought, so I won't derail the thread and just link to  the thread I made on the subject (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33989.0.html) instead.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Colossus on November 21, 2011, 05:33:27 pm
I tend to thumbs up any deck that can beat me in Bronze, no matter what it is. I mean most of those players don't have access to every card, so I show them slack. If a fully upped deck can lose to an unupped deck, then they deserve the thumbs up.

I know I'm the minority and I'll be made fun of, but it's how I play.

From Silver-Platinum leagues, it's all in how they use their oracle card.

All: Ghostmare, firestall (not true fire decks), Mono Aether if the oracle card isn't an aether one, and anyone that packs 6 Steals/Deflags or worse, and Bh/EQ spammers.

If I've never seen the deck, or only once or twice, I'll rate it up if it was interesting and fun to play against.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Plantifant on November 21, 2011, 08:37:25 pm
Going great, 3-0 and 3 thumb up  :D
It is a really original funny deck though :)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: ninetyfools on November 21, 2011, 10:43:08 pm
LOL i used a GoTPmare and so far... 75 in silver.
No complaints. Also Its pretty easy to beat. O.o
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Siweisun on November 21, 2011, 10:55:30 pm
Rate down:
Unoriginal rainbows which don't really use the oracle card
Decks which completely ignore the oracle card
Typical mono-fire or -aether
Other common decks like GotP-nightmare and speed poison

Rate up:
Anything I haven't seen before
Decks which use the oracle card creatively

Except when I'm playing gold league. Then I rate down everything except my own deck. :P
Wh? Gold league people needs those thumbs ups! :'(
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mesaprotector on November 22, 2011, 01:08:12 am
^</sarcasm>
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: furballdn on November 22, 2011, 01:13:35 am
If you want to go the super pragmatic approach, thumbs up the decks you ALMOST beat and thumbs down everything else :P
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mwaetht on November 22, 2011, 04:27:58 am
I thumbs down decks if I can guess how they work based only on their mark, their oracle card, and what they do on the first and second turns.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on November 22, 2011, 09:42:02 am
I thumbs down decks if I can guess how they work based only on their mark, their oracle card, and what they do on the first and second turns.
Now it could just be me, but I'm not sure I've seen many decks at all that you can thumbs up with this rule, its pretty easy to guess what a deck does based on the first two turns 99% of the time. The only decks I'm seeing are ones with the wrong quanta balance that don't play their cards until turn 3+. So... you thumbs up decks for quanta inefficiency?
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Rainchild on November 22, 2011, 10:07:43 pm
I don't need noo steenking thumbs...  ;-)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mwaetht on November 23, 2011, 05:01:33 am
I thumbs down decks if I can guess how they work based only on their mark, their oracle card, and what they do on the first and second turns.
Now it could just be me, but I'm not sure I've seen many decks at all that you can thumbs up with this rule, its pretty easy to guess what a deck does based on the first two turns 99% of the time. The only decks I'm seeing are ones with the wrong quanta balance that don't play their cards until turn 3+. So... you thumbs up decks for quanta inefficiency?
Most strategies that aren't as obvious as a brick to the head aren't easily predicted. For example:

Light pillars, Mark of Air, Oracle Card Pegasus: Duh. Pegasus rush.

The general consensus on this thread seems to be that such a deck would be thumbs-upped, because it's not overdone to death like, say, Ghostmare is. I would thumbs-down it, because while it's not overdone, it doesn't show creativity. If it turns out the deck is actually an unupped flying Morning Glory deck with Pegasus splashed in, for example, that probably wouldn't be evident in the first two turns. I would thereby give it a thumbs up.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Brontos on November 23, 2011, 05:28:19 am
Got Voodoo Doll yesterday. Done a random melting pot deck with every cards that is good with the doll, got 6/0 and only 2 thumbs up. It's better than my usual of 0, but still, this deck is just so original... I don't know how to persuade people to give thumbs up more.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on November 23, 2011, 10:35:34 am
I thumbs down decks if I can guess how they work based only on their mark, their oracle card, and what they do on the first and second turns.
Now it could just be me, but I'm not sure I've seen many decks at all that you can thumbs up with this rule, its pretty easy to guess what a deck does based on the first two turns 99% of the time. The only decks I'm seeing are ones with the wrong quanta balance that don't play their cards until turn 3+. So... you thumbs up decks for quanta inefficiency?
Most strategies that aren't as obvious as a brick to the head aren't easily predicted. For example:

Light pillars, Mark of Air, Oracle Card Pegasus: Duh. Pegasus rush.

The general consensus on this thread seems to be that such a deck would be thumbs-upped, because it's not overdone to death like, say, Ghostmare is. I would thumbs-down it, because while it's not overdone, it doesn't show creativity. If it turns out the deck is actually an unupped flying Morning Glory deck with Pegasus splashed in, for example, that probably wouldn't be evident in the first two turns. I would thereby give it a thumbs up.
I can understand that distinction really, and I see and approve of the thought process behind what you're approving of, but not necessarily sure I agree with the results. I guess it depends how specific you mean when you say "know" what the deck does for its strategy. Because honestly I wouldn't make much of any distinction between "Flying Glories with Pegasi" and "Buffed Pegasi", partly because I consider both Flying Glories and Buffed Pegasi to be part-decks rather than complete deck themes.

For example, I could tell this Water Mark Forest Scorpion deck I fought before the match started "Mono-Life with Forest Spectre", but seeing Pendulums on the first turn it got amended to "Mono-life with forest spectre and a couple Water cards. Typical really, I had it figured out by turn 1-2, so by your strategy it wouldn't get a thumbs up. But it had a really neat strategy involving Pufferfish and Nymph's tears as the water cards and did really well. So despite knowing what the deck would do from the word go, I gave it a thumbs up. Although you'd probably say I didn't know 'exactly' what it'd do, I had a pretty good idea even before I knew about the pufferfish nymphs tears to AdrenaNynmph.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: nolf on November 29, 2011, 07:46:08 pm
Sorry that I have to ask this, but how do you find out how many thumbs up/down your arena deck gets?

I'd also like to add that if you want to thumb up/down "fairly" (based on originality) you have to consider the oracle card and that you probably won't see all of the opponent's deck. My last oracle card was devonian dragon - five of those roughly need ten time pillars, it's tough to make anything original starting from that, for me anyway. It reeks of mono time, it actually wasn't, I added a few darkness pendulums, nightmare (I admit) and devourers so it wouldn't be mono time. Still, chances are some only got to see time quanta/cards, for some it maybe felt like a boring Ghostmare deck though it wasn't really (two of each in a 40 card deck, I think).

Also, as somebody rightfully pointed out - I am in the gold league but I lack a lot of cards across the board (and won't buy them just to make an arena deck), let alone upgraded cards, of which I have far too few. And that limits my deck building greatly. I avoid the overused decks I myself encounter too much, I try to give people a bit of a challenge so I test my decks a few times to see if they work at all and that's the best I can offer.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Calindu on December 01, 2011, 07:02:12 pm
People are quite happy when you get a good card for a deck and don't make it.
My fire pendulum DC style deck got lots of thumbs up.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Qohelet on December 08, 2011, 02:52:46 pm

Why this deck don't get any thumb up's ?

(http://i43.tinypic.com/sghp1y.jpg)

Is it lame or what? There is not black holes or phase shields. I think this deck is pretty weak (I don't know how to make good flying weapon decks, is it possible?)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mesaprotector on December 08, 2011, 03:09:03 pm
Quote
Why this deck don't get any thumb up's ?

Is it lame or what? There is not black holes or phase shields. I think this deck is pretty weak (I don't know how to make good flying weapon decks, is it possible?)
It's more creative than most rainbows I've seen, with nice quanta balance... I probably would have thumbed it up. Sometimes it's just luck, like the Wings/Recluse deck I submitted that got 2/8 thumbs up, or maybe your opponent doesn't like antimatters. (It is one of the more irritating cards to play against, unless you have Rewind or Mutation.)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: puri1 on December 09, 2011, 03:24:56 am
It's been said, but Aetherstall is an absolute thumbs down for me. Even if it's well put together, it doesn't matter. It still shows lack of originality and thought, and I got real mad when I saw one in Silver. By that point, aetherstall should be used only (if at all) as a FG farmer. Seriously, by Silver League you should be more creative than that.

Most other decks, even ghostmares, get a thumbs up if they were well made or utilized the Oracle Card well and thumbs down if they won due to dumb luck or if they completely ignore the oracle card and just made a generic build.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on December 09, 2011, 06:06:42 am
@Qohelet: I'm not sure either, it seems pretty original to me. But to a lot of people the mere use of SNova period is an automatic thumbs-down regardless of anything else. I don't agree with that position, but there you go.

@Puri1: Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post specifically implies that Ghostmare, and more generally, Generic Novabows firestalls and SoSa Poison Stalls, don't have a lack of originality and thought, since they don't get an automatic thumbs down like Aetherstall.

Side question, is it Mono Aether you have a problem with, or any stall that uses Dimensional Shields en masse that triggers your rage? Regardless of whatever else the deck does, since Aetherstall actually can be a multitude of deck types depending on the other half of the duo.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Qohelet on December 09, 2011, 06:44:14 am
@Qohelet: I'm not sure either, it seems pretty original to me. But to a lot of people the mere use of SNova period is an automatic thumbs-down regardless of anything else. I don't agree with that position, but there you go.
It's now 8-3 and gained 60 electrum, so there is two thumb up's \o/

Talking about supernova: Supernova is not always good thing, deck with black holes will own you by healing itself LOT. It's most powerful
anti-rainbow card at the moment and add few rewinds to get more angry faces ><
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Qohelet on December 09, 2011, 07:41:36 am

Oracle gave me electrocutor, so I can make another flying weapon deck with that. Let's do test, if this get single one thumb up, I don't get it.
(and this is even weaker deck, imo)

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2v3lmz5.jpg)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Daguerreo on December 09, 2011, 01:07:39 pm
Instant Thumbs Down:
- Mono :fire (basic ones)
- Oraclebows (basic ones)
- Immorush
- Ghostmare
- Death rushes
- Poisonrush with SoSa
- Mono :darkness (basic ones)

Stuff like that.

Thumbs up:
- Original deckbuilding
- Fun Decks
- Strong inventive decks
Copy- paste.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: RavingRabbid on December 09, 2011, 02:36:21 pm
I thumbs up decks that received an insanely low amount of plays, too. Unless it's a Firestall. I don't lose against Firestalls.

Now, seriously, this is a chance at normalizing RNG.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: puri1 on December 10, 2011, 04:42:34 am
@Puri1: Correct me if I'm wrong, but your post specifically implies that Ghostmare, and more generally, Generic Novabows firestalls and SoSa Poison Stalls, don't have a lack of originality and thought, since they don't get an automatic thumbs down like Aetherstall.
Yeah, I was actually thinking about it later and decided I need to clarify my position. If they build any of those you mentioned, I wouldn't thumb it down iff they used the Oracle card as an essential part of the strategy. So if their Oracle card was a Nightmare/GotP, I would give a thumbs up assuming they won due to it being a well made deck (and not sheer luck). There's unfortunately not a huge selection of decks that can utilize those cards in the excessive amount of 5 apart from Ghostmare, and I don't feel it's fair to penalize the player for getting lucky with the Oracle and using a generic build if it's one of the few that can handle 5 copies of those cards.

This reasoning applies to Fire Shield as the Oracle Card (Novabows firestalls) and Poison/Arsenic as the Oracle Card (SoSa Poisonstalls). What other deck can you make with 5 Fire Shields and hope to be semi-successful? Thus, if I recognize the deck archetype while playing I use this logic to see if the Oracle card was needed and is being used in that build. Now, the "essential to the strategy" bit is important. If they make a Ghostmare because they have Time Tower as their Oracle card, then I would thumb it down since they could easily have done something more creative. Finally, the reason I single out Aetherstall is because out of the dozens that I have played in Arena, about 80% just mindlessly change the mark (or not) to incorporate their Oracle Card but leave the rest of the deck in the regular old setup. That's boring and cheap, so I just thumb them all down.

I hope that helps explain my apparent thumbs up/down madness  :D
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mwaetht on December 11, 2011, 06:58:34 am
Here are a few examples I'm interested in seeing how everyone would think of.

-Oracle card Poison. I build mono-Aether, but I use a 1xMark of Death to run the Poisons/Deadly Poisons. Would you thumbs-up it or not?

On one hand, it would arguably be creative to obtain Poison and see the effectiveness of Dimensional Shield over making a mono-Death. On the other, mono-Aether decks are a dime a dozen.

-Oracle card Vampire. I put in some usable-but-weird card (for example, Dagger) in a mono-Darkness deck. Would you thumbs-up it or not?

On one hand, it's certainly unorthodox. On the other hand, the overall archetype is uncreative, and you can't be sure if they put it in just out of stupidity instead of concern for creativity.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: DoubleCapitals on December 13, 2011, 05:45:51 am
Here are a few examples I'm interested in seeing how everyone would think of.

-Oracle card Poison. I build mono-Aether, but I use a 1xMark of Death to run the Poisons/Deadly Poisons. Would you thumbs-up it or not?
On one hand, it would arguably be creative to obtain Poison and see the effectiveness of Dimensional Shield over making a mono-Death. On the other, mono-Aether decks are a dime a dozen.

-Oracle card Vampire. I put in some usable-but-weird card (for example, Dagger) in a mono-Darkness deck. Would you thumbs-up it or not?On one hand, it's certainly unorthodox. On the other hand, the overall archetype is uncreative, and you can't be sure if they put it in just out of stupidity instead of concern for creativity.
Yes. I doubt it would beat me though...

Depends. If it has steals, then no.

Also, I thumb down decks that are PC-heavy. Its annoying and unoriginal.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mesaprotector on December 13, 2011, 05:56:47 am
With dagger, there's no such thing as a useful deck. Well, maybe Dagger + Flying Weapon + Adrenaline... but Staffs would be better in any case.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mwaetht on December 13, 2011, 06:39:13 am
Dagger specifically isn't the point. The point is for a weird card to be there in general.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Elite arbiter on December 13, 2011, 07:21:38 am
Here are a few examples I'm interested in seeing how everyone would think of.

-Oracle card Poison. I build mono-Aether, but I use a 1xMark of Death to run the Poisons/Deadly Poisons. Would you thumbs-up it or not?

On one hand, it would arguably be creative to obtain Poison and see the effectiveness of Dimensional Shield over making a mono-Death. On the other, mono-Aether decks are a dime a dozen.

Depends on the league. Silver and Bronze almost certainly. But gold and platinum I'd have to think about it, although in plat you'd probably be running a x2 mark to splash in arsenic too. But it isn't that original.

-Oracle card Vampire. I put in some usable-but-weird card (for example, Dagger) in a mono-Darkness deck. Would you thumbs-up it or not?

On one hand, it's certainly unorthodox. On the other hand, the overall archetype is uncreative, and you can't be sure if they put it in just out of stupidity instead of concern for creativity.

Its actually not unorthodox at all. Its just mono-darkness and I'd rate it the same as mono-darkness. Hell darkness even has a dagger of its own that is better in every meaningful way.
Also, thumbs downing decks that have mass PC is almost like thumbs downing decks that depend on towers or mass CC. Its something, but its not actually worthy of a thumbs down regardless of the actual deck like that suggests.

And for the record 'weird cards' don't really matter all that much for my ratings. What matters is unorthodox and different 'strategies' on the whole. Might just be me, but with very few exceptions I vote based on the theme of the deck rather than "that one card I hate".
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mwaetht on December 13, 2011, 07:05:08 pm
You've got a good point there. Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mrtwigie01 on January 19, 2012, 06:24:31 am
If I lose to any decks, I rate it a thumbs down, because I will not accept losing as an option!
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: dabuda on January 21, 2012, 08:41:47 pm
If I see a deck that is common, thumbs down (for instance, fire rush, invulnerable aether, etc)

If I see any originality, or even common decks that have a sliver of original twist in it, thumbs up.

needless to say, I thumbs down over half because the two mentioned above seem to be the only ones I run into.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: willng3 on January 21, 2012, 11:08:42 pm
SoSa has moved to the top of my list of decks that gets a thumbs down if it manages to defeat me.  It's easily countered when I know it's coming, but lately I've seen it used in decks that have absolutely no business using it which just annoys me.  Seriously getting bored of beating decks using them and being defeated by others.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: furballdn on January 22, 2012, 01:59:11 am
SoSa has moved to the top of my list of decks that gets a thumbs down if it manages to defeat me.  It's easily countered when I know it's coming, but lately I've seen it used in decks that have absolutely no business using it which just annoys me.  Seriously getting bored of beating decks using them and being defeated by others.
*fighting a life rush with a mark of fire for deflag* "Oh, that's a pretty unique idea. Quite cool, using the mark for PC while the frogs do damage." *Opponent suddenly plays SoSac and then chains more* "The Fu-"
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mesaprotector on January 22, 2012, 02:04:58 am
SoSa has moved to the top of my list of decks that gets a thumbs down if it manages to defeat me.  It's easily countered when I know it's coming, but lately I've seen it used in decks that have absolutely no business using it which just annoys me.  Seriously getting bored of beating decks using them and being defeated by others.
*fighting a life rush with a mark of fire for deflag* "Oh, that's a pretty unique idea. Quite cool, using the mark for PC while the frogs do damage." *Opponent suddenly plays SoSac and then chains more* "The Fu-"
Lol yeah, it also annoys me when a deck without a life mark uses SoGs. Basically, if the card doesn't make sense in the deck, why are you trying to squeeze it in?
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Shylderidh on January 22, 2012, 12:21:15 pm
Automatic thumb down :
- ghostmare if oracle card isn't ghost or nightmare
- any deck using sosac if oracle card isn't sosac or death pilar
- quanta denial decks if oracle card isn't a quanta denial one (ie devourer, quicksand, trident, black hole)
- hope decks if oracle card isn't hope or a light emitting creature

And in general :
- unimaginative decks only good due to arena advantages (ie double drawing fire or nature rush or triple fire mark firestall)

Usual thumbs up :
- original decks especially based on water, air or earth, elements I find very rarely used in arena
- most decks allowing the opponent to play (= decks not based on quanta denial, boring stale or as fast possible dammage)
- most decks using their oracle card as their primary weapon
- most low level for their category decks (ie when I'm beaten by a level 22 or so deck in silver league despite its advantages are looking more like bronze ones)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: zombie0 on January 29, 2012, 04:08:48 pm
SoS, voted down every time.  no idea why this card exists, its not fun, its not balanced.

instead, how about giving a creature you control an ability "sacrifice".  the creature gains immortal and prevents all damage to you for X turns.  when no counters left, the creature dies (suggesting it actually sacrificed itself to help you).  maybe it is delayed while sacrificing, maybe not.

isnt that a 1000 times better idea than "chain this card for 20 turns, you cannot lose.  deck out all 30 card decks.  poison is a cool guy."?
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: mesaprotector on January 29, 2012, 05:05:04 pm
I love decks with SoSa because I'll just use Holy Flash :P But seriously yeah, it needs to be nerfed.

Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Powerfrog on February 04, 2012, 11:21:36 am
I basically say to myself "Have i seen this deck before?"

Yes. Thumbs down.
No. Thumbs up.

If it's a really bad deck i'll thumb it down too, though. I admire the guts to be original, but you need to keep trying.

(Oh and SoSa. That's pretty much the one card i'll instantly thumb down regardless of circumstances. It's just rediculously overpowered.)
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: tempalt3 on February 04, 2012, 09:14:49 pm
I usually just thumb down when there are really uncreative decks like: cremation lava rush, graboid, mono aether, and that sort of stuff. But if I sometimes see a deck that I simply really hate and would never use as a nice person, I might also thumb that down :P

EDIT: People still use oraclebows? x-x
Whats an oracle bow
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: regen2k9 on February 04, 2012, 11:50:28 pm
Pretty much anything that's not one of the 5 most commonly used deck for its respective arena tier gets a thumbs up from me.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Calindu on March 01, 2012, 06:55:25 pm
With SPlat I started to thumbs down: SoSac decks, 12 of those will just deck out me, big stall decks that have nothing to do with the oracle card(example: mono aether with 12 SoGs), Ghostmares w/o SoV, those usually get killed with a good hand from me, but if they start to draw lock you, it's annoying, decks with 12 BHs, different monos with triple mark to splash oracle cards and the most annoying: rainbows that just splashed the oracle card(Rainbows with nova/QT wont get thumbs down).

Rest is pretty much Thumbs up, depends on some decks though.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: xdude on March 01, 2012, 08:36:33 pm
I thumb up everything. It's more or less the only thing I do for the community.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: fbparis on March 11, 2012, 10:24:26 am
I guess decks with many "up" are more likely to be selected to play against people, so when I have a good arena deck in place, I think I should vote "down" every decks that can beat me in my league.

In Plat League, I'll also vote "up" every decks I know SPLAT or TOAST can beat cause these decks are the most common farming decks in this league I think :D
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: waterzx on March 12, 2012, 05:11:36 am
All those crap decks that do nothing but hide behind the stupid dim. shield and wait for the lobo. to finish you. It doesn't even need a thought to build those decks.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: Fluffboll on March 14, 2012, 10:34:21 pm
Instant down votes are:

SoSac decks
Reverse Time decks
Black Hole decks

All other decks depends on how they are build but if the decks contain any of the cards listed above I will never up-vote it.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: zhangvict on March 20, 2012, 12:41:41 pm
I usually only ever thumbs up a deck is it has some very clever or amusing strategy that I have never seen before. Sadly, this means that >95% of decks do not warrant a thumbs up from me. I don't really care about hated cards like sosa or black hole. They are just cards. It is the unoriginality of the idea that makes me thumbs down.

For example, if a deck threw in SoSa randomly then that shows poor thought and I would thumbs down even though it beat me.  However, one deck I saw had quantum tower as oracle card and instead of building a speedbow, the deck maker threw in one dragon of each element and the result was quite halarious. Sadly I beat that deck and was unable to thumbs it up.
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: BunKeR on March 20, 2012, 03:48:04 pm
It matters what League I'm trying to Grind in .

If I'm running thru Bronze with a fully upped list and I lose I will thumb it up . I'll even thumb up Ghostmare & Immorush . I have NEVER encountered a Bronze League deck running SoSac but if I did I'd probably still thumb it up since I've never seen that in BL before .

In Gold/Plat , I'll thumb up anything that slightly resembles a FG .

In retrospect , I thumb up everything , unless it's already on the way out [1hp decks get a thumbs down for sure]
Title: Re: How do you rate decks that beat you ?
Post by: furballdn on March 25, 2012, 06:01:19 am
It matters what League I'm trying to Grind in .

If I'm running thru Bronze with a fully upped list and I lose I will thumb it up . I'll even thumb up Ghostmare & Immorush . I have NEVER encountered a Bronze League deck running SoSac but if I did I'd probably still thumb it up since I've never seen that in BL before .

In Gold/Plat , I'll thumb up anything that slightly resembles a FG .

In retrospect , I thumb up everything , unless it's already on the way out [1hp decks get a thumbs down for sure]
Not really any SNspeedbow FGs are there? XD
blarg: