Banning Supernova, Quantum Tower, and SoG from Arena (Yet another new poll)

[bucky1andonly]

play the rank you can beat.  meaning, if you cant beat platinum go down to gold.  if you cant beat gold, go down to silver.  if you cant beat silver go down to bronze.  if you cant beat bronze, go to ai3.  if you cant beat ai3, uninstall your browser.

I can beat platinum regularly, so there is at least one deck good enough to do so.  Grinding in general is boring, so complaining about just rainbow decks is pathetic.  how about if everyone made firestall decks and we werent allowed to use reflect shields?  wouldnt be very fun would it.

[Ace of Souls]

I don't think people are complaining about losing a lot to rainbow decks.  Rainbow decks are just one more deck to beat.  You can't just say, "rainbow decks are hard to play against so they shouldn't be allowed."  I think the complaining is due to the lack of variety from T500 since a rainbow deck doesn't need much changing to incorporate the oracle's pick for a card.

If you want to encourage variety, I think you need to find a way to do that which DOESN'T remove part of the game.  Incentivize the oracle's card more than just providing it for free if you want more decks to use the oracle's card.  If zanz's goal was creative decks, then removing 1 of the 13 pillars in the game is just going to make creativity harder.

Bucky is right.  A ban on quantum pillars and supernovas just because they're easier to incorporate the oracle's pick isn't fair to the people who do use quantum pillars "correctly" in their arena decks.

[QuantumT]

Believe it or not, it's actually restrictions that encourage creativity. When you allow people to do whatever they want, they'll usually just do the same things over and over.

[Xenocidius]

The stats are made so that Platinum players can have all the advantages of a False God, and in effect build their own False-God-like decks. By that logic, they should have the same limitations as False Gods.

Are Quantum Towers and Supernovas banned in False Gods? Rainbow, Destiny, Dream Catcher, Chaos Lord, Jezebel and Lionheart (to a small extent) all use one or both of these cards. However, that still leaves 23 Gods that do not. Compared to at least 90% of Platinum decks using them, this could be a problem. So maybe they should be banned.

As for shards, no False Gods use shards. None. I personally think they are not allowed to. The obvious reason for this is that no one wants to fight a deck with 12 SoGs + 12 SoDs. Yet these decks are scattered all around Platinum.

I don't know if QTs and SNs should be banned. It would add a LOT more variety, but there are other ways to do this (Oracle chooses Mark, deck type, etc.). However, in my opinion, shards do need to be banned, at the very least against double draw opponents.

[hainkarga]

How many people here are actually NOT using any of the suggested cards to ban?  And what category are you in, I wanna grind each category for a bit to see what decks are there.

lmao @ marv
rage more please, it entertains me

Voted yes to ban QP, and not using any of the cards in the poll. Won 60, lost 5 times with my duo in platinum after modifying once.  i submited another duo w/o mentioned cards, its 8-0 atm (i expect a very nice rank with it) and intend to make non-rainbows as often as i can. But I only find rainbow decks tasteless and boring, i think they are technically fine to fight with/against.

[SilentFH]

As for shards, no False Gods use shards. None. The obvious reason for this is that no one wants to fight a deck with 12 SoGs + 12 SoDs. Yet these decks are scattered all around Platinum. In my opinion, shards do need to be banned, at the very least against double draw opponents.

Agreed with this.

I think though, I will change my mind on the new poll cast. While I still think the shards should not be permitted to be used by arena decks (The AI controlled ones), I'm going to change my mind on the quantum tower issue and say they are okay. (I originally voted ban QT, for reference).

The reason I say this is because I feel in some cases, setting up a sub-optimal rainbow is the only hope for some of the oracle chosen cards. As an example, I got a dusk mantle from the oracle a few days back. Needless to say, my attempt at making a build around FIVE of those shields failed miserably (Tried to make a GotP/Nightmare build with hourglasses). Had I thought to make some sort of rainbow though, I strongly suspect I may have had a better chance of not getting knocked out in an hour or two, perhaps even earn myself some electrum. My point would be that if you were to remove quantum towers, you would probably have a knock-on effect of further cards players would want banned because you simply would be too disadvantaged by the oracle's pick of a card.

But perhaps then I'd need to explain why my above thoughts should apply only to quantum towers and not shards. Asides from Xenocidius' point, Shards just make any deck much better and much more advantageous than it would normally be to run, even more so when combined with false-god like properties. On the other hand, quantum towers can only do this if the rest of the build either works with the oracle card, or can function well to offset the disadvantage of the oracle's choice.

[jmizzle7]

 Global Moderator Comment This is a discussion, not a soapbox upon which forum members are allowed to harass other forum members. Disagreements happen, and are a part of any controversial discussion. Any flaming/provoking will be removed, and the offending user will be messaged/disciplined accordingly.

[Marvaddin]

My point would be that if you were to remove quantum towers, you would probably have a knock-on effect of further cards players would want banned because you simply would be too disadvantaged by the oracle's pick of a card.

Sure, but you know you dont need submit decks everyday. If you get a useless card, skip submitting a deck with it. After 3 days your deck just get -8HP, and still can fight.

[SilentFH]

My point would be that if you were to remove quantum towers, you would probably have a knock-on effect of further cards players would want banned because you simply would be too disadvantaged by the oracle's pick of a card.

Sure, but you know you dont need submit decks everyday. If you get a useless card, skip submitting a deck with it. After 3 days your deck just get -8HP, and still can fight.

That is very dependent on your previous submission though, as the previous build must get to such as position where you don't have to use the oracle's next card.
To expand further on my example, the day before dusk mantle, I got a hope shield, so obviously RoL/Hope seemed like a good option. It got to 16-8 but upon ageing dropped out of the T500.

Next oracle card was dusk mantle.

Not many options left for me there...

[kiszol]

Banning QT and SN cards from Arena is clearly unfair with smaller players because of the lack of upgraded cards. They usually have some upped QTs and SNovas but that's all. Think about it. Using double draw and 2x or 3x mark will not solve the problem. Why should have the more experienced players more variety in their deckbuilding?

I have 2 suggestions to solve this problem:
1. SoGs definitely have to be banned, no question about that. Decks with 6x SoG and 6x Sanctuary are clearly unfair and kills the game, this is no fun at all.
2. Maybe QTs and SNs should be banned from the Gold league (while QPs and Novas still could be used imo) and QT, QP, SN and Nova cards should be banned from Platinum. This way the players with more Electrum and upped or unupped cards will must be creative and build less boring decks. However "smaller" players, who are in Silver or Bronze league will still be able to use all of their cards.

[LifeLockable]

I agree with what kizol says about ze banning the higher up you go the more restrictions, seems like it would keep the challenge aspect up because the rainbows arent that deadly in silver and bronze

[SriVastra]

Shards are definitely a problem for me.  I'm not exactly an advocate for banning them, but I saw a decent argument for it at the very least.  It does seem that the platinum league is where players can, in a way, create their own false god decks, and it is very true that false gods do not use shards.  My solution to this has just been not to play the platinum league at all.  To me, this definitely says something is wrong.  The only reason I can think of for playing in platinum (or gold, to a lesser extent) is to get my butt kicked.  On purpose.  Who would want that??

This is also coming from a not-as-new-as-his-forum-status-would-suggest-but-still-nowhere-near-the-scrooge-mcduck-level-of-wealth-that-most-people-on-here-seem-to-have-achieved player *gasp*...   so I'm still trying to amass my fortune and build a "decent" deck.  The issue is I can't think of any way to beat what is essentially a false god with 440hp and a possible (read:probable) 60+ regeneration.  ...ok, maybe a firebolt deck with some HEAVY stall tactics.  But that's it.

As far as banning anything other than shards goes, I don't think there is a problem.  You can ban the more "broken" cards all you want, but there will still always be a "best" deck that people will copy.  Right now I'm seeing nothing but rainbow decks or some version of tiny creature -> immolation/cremation -> phoenix/lava guardian (or 'flaming baby decks', as I call them).  If you ban QT, or nova, or immolation, or any other card (possible exception for shards), someone will just build a new "best" deck out of what cards remain and then people will start wanting the core cards in there banned too.  That being said; holy crap people!  Show some creativity!  I just played 20 games in silver league and at LEAST 10 of them were flaming baby decks that weren't even using the oracle card, with most of the remaining 10 being standard rainbows with the oracle card just thrown in.

Closing topic:  Skill points

When I first started playing the arena, I thought dexterity was just a double draw.  Shortly thereafter, I find out through a first hand thwomping that it is also a double DECK.  As in it takes your 35-60 card deck, and doubles what's in it.  Simple concept.  Simple, but broken.  Allowing 12 copies of every card into a single deck is ridiculously overpowered.  12 earthquakes?  There go all my pillars.  12 deflagrations?  There go all my permanents.  12 of any damage spell?  I'm either about to lose my creatures or most of my face.  12 shards?  You just took the false out of false god.  That advantage is just...yeah.  Bad.  Evil.  Nasty.  Do not want.  I no can has win.  Etc.

My suggestion for the above issue is rather than doubling up the deck, why not just double the deck limit?  One of the best features of dexterity is a huge card pool that makes it nearly impossible to deck out.  Allowing a player to create their own 70-120 card deck while still using the 6 copy rule would radically diminish the problem without banning shards.

For the rest of the skills, I am of the opinion that they should all cost more.  My reasoning for this is, again, the buggery I receive every time I try to play platinum.  Every single deck has their skills maxed out.  Everyone is the same.  No strengths or weaknesses, just maxed out in all regards.  If you raise skill costs, you create more room for personality in the decks that will be made.  Not only will it make bronze and silver a little easier (which, by definition, they should be) but it will cause gold and platinum decks to differ in skill.  Some will have high health pools, but not a ton of upgrades.  Some will have huge decks and a more powerful mark but not quite so much hp.  This, to me, is a much better option than just having every deck be the same kind of kick-your-face-in powerful.

Now allow me to be the first to say...  tl;dr