Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => Exhibition Hall => Card Ideas and Art => Series => Topic started by: Bloodshadow on February 21, 2011, 07:10:26 am
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(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/7058/titlezs.png)
Void as a new element has been suggested by many people, myself included. However, implementing a new element would bring a multitude of problems, and thus many of these Void suggestions have been brutally shot down. To circumvent the difficulties of suggesting a new element, I have created a series of Other cards that share one mechanic, one that successfully represents the nature of Void without bringing in any of the technical and balancing problems of creating a new element.
The main idea behind the Void pseudo-element is that there is no such thing as "Void quanta". Instead, whenever "Void quanta" is "spent", your opponent gains quanta of his or her Mark. To counterbalance this, Void Pillars destroy your opponent's quanta. You can put Void Pillars in a normal deck for quanta denial, and you can put other Void cards in a normal deck with the risk of giving your opponent free quanta. Or, you can run a Mono-Void deck that is balanced.
Cards currently in the Void series:
Void Pillar | Void Tower (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21409.0.html)
Void Pendulum | Void Pendulum (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21443.0.html)
Voidwalker | Voidstalker (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21456.0.html)
Void Distillate | Void Essence (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21458.0.html)
Clear Nymph | Void Nymph (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21512.0.html)
Void Portal | Void Gate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21562.0.html)
Null Fracture | Null Rift (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21563.0.html)
Little Bang | Big Bang (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21504.0.html)
Oblivion | Oblivion (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23532.0.html)
Void Dragon | Elite Void Dragon (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23533.0.html)
Phantom of Ignorance | Specter of Apathy (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23534.0.html)
Nothingness | Nothingness (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23563.0.html)
Nullify | Annihilate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23566.0.html)
Debilitate | Enervate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23619.0.html)
Crystal of Inversion | Crystal of Inversion (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23903.0.html)
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This series is a good idea that has been long in the making.
Current Theory about Void quanta.
(2/7) + (8.5/7) [Elemental Quanta] = [Void Quanta]
(4/14) + (17/14) [Elemental Quanta] = [Void Quanta]
(7/8.5) [Void quanta] - (2/8.5) = [Elemental Quanta]
(14/17) [Void quanta] - (4/17) = [Elemental Quanta]
PS: Do not round before the last step
| Elemental Quanta | Void Quanta | After Rounding |
| 1 | 1.500 | 2 |
| 2 | 2.714 | 3 |
| 3 | 3.928 | 4 |
| 4 | 5.142 | 5 |
| 5 | 6.357 | 6 |
| 6 | 7.571 | 8 |
| 7 | 8.785 | 9 |
| 8 | 10.00 | 10 |
| 9 | 11.21 | 11 |
| Void Quanta | Elemental Quanta | After Rounding |
| 1 | 0.588 | 1 |
| 2 | 1.411 | 1 |
| 3 | 2.235 | 2 |
| 4 | 3.058 | 3 |
| 5 | 3.882 | 4 |
| 6 | 4.705 | 5 |
| 7 | 5.529 | 6 |
| 8 | 6.352 | 6 |
| 9 | 7.176 | 7 |
| 10 | 8.000 | 8 |
| 11 | 8.823 | 9 |
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I like this "element" very much.
Keep up the good work, BS :)
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Problem with this is that if you get like 40 Void pillars and 6 RoL and have like 2 Light Dragons its basically game over... The Void might be OP...
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aww... not hiatus. i'm looking forward to the return, though.
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Problem with this is that if you get like 40 Void pillars and 6 RoL and have like 2 Light Dragons its basically game over... The Void might be OP...
Void Pillars only destroy quantum of the opponent's mark.
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how DO you make void quanta? void pillars destroy quanta from other's quanta pool matching his mark? and if there is void, there must also be a contrary (like :light and :darkness). what would be the supposed opposing element...if THIS one ever sees day.
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how DO you make void quanta? void pillars destroy quanta from other's quanta pool matching his mark? and if there is void, there must also be a contrary (like :light and :darkness). what would be the supposed opposing element...if THIS one ever sees day.
There is no such thing as Void quanta. Instead, the cards are played at the risk of giving the opposing player quanta.
Void is its own counter element. As Bloodshadow had stated, if you use a card that has the Void mechanic, it gives the opponent quanta. Void pillars destroy quanta.
And also, this would me placed in Other, as Bloodshadow also stated, so there is no need for an opposing element.
EDIT: 400th post.
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how DO you make void quanta? void pillars destroy quanta from other's quanta pool matching his mark? and if there is void, there must also be a contrary (like :light and :darkness). what would be the supposed opposing element...if THIS one ever sees day.
Void is its own counter element. As Bloodshadow had stated, if you use a card that has the Void mechanic, it gives the opponent quanta. Void pillars destroy quanta.
And also, this would me placed in Other, as Bloodshadow also stated, so there is no need for an opposing element.
meh, good enough. void counters itself. its legit
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Bump.
I've decided to jump-start this series. Since it already has more than 6 cards, it can now be moved to the series page.
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very interesting card mechanics, awesome idea, keep the cards coming! :P
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i dont understand the purpose of the voidstalker, but everything else seems awesome
edit: nvm, i forgot about the negative part XP
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When reading this whole topic I kept thinking of this http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15279.0.html Not my card but I feel like it fits into the Void theme.
I do feel like if this was implemented would there be any damaging creatures? like a void dragon?
And if this deserves a nymph would there be an "Other" Nymph?
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And if this deserves a nymph would there be an "Other" Nymph?
There's already one. ;) Void Nymph is just terrifying!
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I do feel like if this was implemented would there be any damaging creatures? like a void dragon?
Void decks can be played using no quanta and win dealing no damage. All Void cards reduce your opponent's max HP instead of dealing actual damage, including Void Dragon.
Now, what other cards do Void need? It has low, medium, high attackers, a weapon and a shield, an alchemy card and a nymph, a permanent, and some spells. What else?
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MOAR permanents. Isolation. Target creature does not attack for one turn, and takes no damage for two turns.
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MOAR permanents. Isolation. Target creature does not attack for one turn, and takes no damage for two turns.
On the other hand, I feel that this series has too few spells for an "Element".
Here are some I quicky thought off:
Null Material
Spell
Cost : 4 Void
Target weapon's attack is lowered to 0 or target shield's defense is lowered by 1.
False Ascendance
Spell
Cost : 5 Void
Target creature gains Immaterial and a random buff (momentum, adrenaline, stat buff), but also gains an upkeep of 3 quantum per turn.
Voidmersion
Spell
Cost : 5 Void
Target card in hand has it's cost doubled and now costs Void.
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Wow. Well thought out, balenced.... Great suggestion.
Never seen anyone make a whole new element.
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Yayz. Isolation has arrived, in the shape of Nothingness.
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New spell: Nullify | Annihilate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23566.0.html)
Void now has 13 cards. Anything else?
EDIT: All Void cards now have card art.
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I actually hated this new element idea "void" at first because it seemed very strange with it's mechanics. But after seeing the new cards and getting familiar with the whole idea of the void element, i am starting to realize that it is something brilliant and well designed.
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Card, just in case:
Name: Void Ray
Type: Spell
Element: Void
Effect: damages the target for 2 health and causes a random negative effect (freeze, delay, basically anything used in chaos seed)
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Card, just in case:
Name: Void Ray
Type: Spell
Element: Void
Effect: damages the target for 2 health and causes a random negative effect (freeze, delay, basically anything used in chaos seed)
That does not fit the mechanics of Void.
I actually hated this new element idea "void" at first because it seemed very strange with it's mechanics. But after seeing the new cards and getting familiar with the whole idea of the void element, i am starting to realize that it is something brilliant and well designed.
Void itself isn't a real new element. Pseudo means fake. Fake-element. It's basically all a series of Other cards, since they don't fit into the rest of the elements. Also, BS will be glad to hear he converted another follower.
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Card, just in case:
Name: Void Ray
Type: Spell
Element: Void
Effect: damages the target for 2 health and causes a random negative effect (freeze, delay, basically anything used in chaos seed)
That does not fit the mechanics of Void.
I actually hated this new element idea "void" at first because it seemed very strange with it's mechanics. But after seeing the new cards and getting familiar with the whole idea of the void element, i am starting to realize that it is something brilliant and well designed.
Void itself isn't a real new element. Pseudo means fake. Fake-element. It's basically all a series of Other cards, since they don't fit into the rest of the elements. Also, BS will be glad to hear he converted another follower.
LOL, btw how many followers are there?
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LOL, btw how many followers are there?
I am.
I do not agree with all of the cards but the Void Mechanic is a valuable addition if handled well. The main concern is the balancing of 0CC speed and almost uncounterable damage.
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I've been looking through all the cards.. and a Void Rush Deck is hiiiighhhlyyyy capable, and unstopable.
I feel that allowing your opponent to pick which quanta the void plays give, (if code-able) would even out the effects of the Void cards muich better.
Void cards shouldn't be able to be fractal'd.
All Void cards need to not be immateriable.
Just my opinion.
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I've been looking through all the cards.. and a Void Rush Deck is hiiiighhhlyyyy capable, and unstopable. Your opponent gets a lot of quanta from this type of deck on turn 1 - which means a rainbow can easily set itself up on turn 2.
I feel that allowing your opponent to pick which quanta the void plays give, (if code-able) would even out the effects of the Void cards muich better. Maybe, but wouldn't it also slow the game down? It could potentially give the opponent quantum of their mark, but I think that might make them UP as it gives too many decks the opportunity to outrush them.
Void cards shouldn't be able to be fractal'd.
Again, I think we generally want to avoid banning specific cards like Fractal in that manner for the sake of the series.
All Void cards need to not be immateriable. Less than half of them are.
Just my opinion.
Another idea, this one focuses on Void's concept of giving the opponent free quanta alongside destroying it to balance each other out.
Name : Dispell
Cost : 10 Void
Destroy 7 quantum of target quantum pool.
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Implemented Zblader's suggestion: Debilitate | Enervate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23619.0.html)
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Err, no offense meant Blood, but shouldn't I get partial credit for Debilitate | Enervate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23619.0.html) and Nullify | Annihilate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23566.0.html) considering those ideas seem to be based off mine?
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Err, no offense meant Blood, but shouldn't I get partial credit for Debilitate | Enervate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23619.0.html) and Nullify | Annihilate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23566.0.html) considering those ideas seem to be based off mine?
And a couple ideas were partially mine, too. XP
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Err, no offense meant Blood, but shouldn't I get partial credit for Debilitate | Enervate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23619.0.html) and Nullify | Annihilate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23566.0.html) considering those ideas seem to be based off mine?
I'll give you partial credit for Enervate, but I think Annihilate was my own idea since it's not based on your Shame spell.
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Err, no offense meant Blood, but shouldn't I get partial credit for Debilitate | Enervate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23619.0.html) and Nullify | Annihilate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23566.0.html) considering those ideas seem to be based off mine?
I'll give you partial credit for Enervate, but I think Annihilate was my own idea since it's not based on your Shame spell.
No, not Shame. I mean the way it "Negates" a weapon or shield seems really similar to this:
Null Material
Spell
Cost : 4 Void
Target weapon's attack is lowered to 0 or target shield's defense is lowered by 1.
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Nope. I assure you that for Annihilate, I did not copy from anyone. I would've said so if it was inspired by your suggestion.
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Nope. I assure you that for Annihilate, I did not copy from anyone. I would've said so if it was inspired by your suggestion.
Alright, thanks for clearing that up then.
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Is there a void weapon yet?
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Is there a void weapon yet?
Null Fracture | Null Rift (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21563.0.html)
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Ah. I missed the part where that was a weapon.
I really like what you did with this series, it might be the strongest case for a new element I've seen yet.
Any ideas for a divinity series yet?
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I really like what you did with this series, it might be the strongest case for a new element I've seen yet.
I have recruited another follower. Huzzah.
Any ideas for a divinity series yet?
Some vague ideas. There will be six cards, each representing a part of my personality (choleric, melancholic, phlegmatic, sanguine, superego, id). Beyond that, I have no idea.
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Well, I had an odd thought.
Just like void is unorthodox, so is divinity. The Divine demand sacrifice in order to play their cards. For instance, "target a creature you control with more than 5 attack. It is replaced with a divine soldier", or "in addition to the cost of this card, lose 10 life."
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Not really sacrifices. The unifying theme about Divine is that all of their creatures and permanents have infinite cost and are immaterial. They can only be summoned through Divine spells (Big Bang is one). Not all of them require sacrifices.
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Ah. Well, here was my idea, which doesn't fit with your theme.
It's here if you wanna look at it anyway.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd166675/Divine_Nymph.bmp)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd166677/Godly_Nymph.bmp)
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Voidmersion
Spell
Cost : 5 Void
Target card in hand has it's cost doubled and now costs Void.
I wanted to see what an inverted Void color scheme would look like, and I wanted to make a non-offensive creature. So I made this.
Crystal of Inversion | Crystal of Inversion (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,23903.0.html)
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Man, did you ever ask Zanz of implementing these? If only these were real cards...
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great cards!
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I think this idea is creative and well balanced, I'll totally vote for it. ;D
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I like the idea but think the balance isn't there yet. I don't like having a creature that has zero counters. If it took 2+ cards to have zero counters then that is okay, but 1 card... I don't like it. A weapon/shield with zero counters works, but not a 1 card creature.
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I like the idea but think the balance isn't there yet. I don't like having a creature that has zero counters. If it took 2+ cards to have zero counters then that is okay, but 1 card... I don't like it. A weapon/shield with zero counters works, but not a 1 card creature.
If you cannot directly counter a card then take a step back and use an indirect counter. Nothing exists that cannot be countered.
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I liked the new element but i don't think that the cards are the best.
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I liked the new element but i don't think that the cards are the best.
It would help if you explained why you don't think the cards are the best.
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Pretty cool and creative idea behind that Void. Easily one the best ideas for a 13th element. I haven't looked into the cards in detail just yet, but I'll put that on my to-do-list.
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Void is an awesome concept to me and I love it.
Hope to see these hit the armory.
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Just so I am getting the series idea, this can be completely run free of quanta?
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Just so I am getting the series idea, this can be completely run free of quanta?
Yes. Try not to be out-rushed by the massive amounts of free quanta given to your opponent, though.
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wow..... :o a whole crapload of work has gone into these, hopefully someday we'll be able to admit this series as an entire new element, i think it deserves it. IMO (just spewin' ideas, humor me) a viable dual element to go with this would be called "space" or "distance" or something along those lines. Fortunately opposing elements don't have to have opposing mechanics, so the main mechnic for void is quanta denial, and the mechanic for "space" would be along the lines of AoE cards, things that use and manipulate the layout of the field. Just a little world of elements fantasy of mine, but if they arent able to make a new element, then this should at least get into the "other" category.
hah, just remembered "blood", wonder what the dual element of that would be, could be divine i guess, bc blood represents mortality while divine represents...... immortality...... sort of
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Well, the opposite of Void is Divine. I made a couple of Divine cards, but never got around to making a full series.
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Would you mind changing the Void pseudoquanta cost mechanic to a Void pseudoquanta generation effect?
Aka casting Parallel Universe on a Void creature would also cause the opponent to gain quanta.
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Would you mind changing the Void pseudoquanta cost mechanic to a Void pseudoquanta generation effect?
Aka casting Parallel Universe on a Void creature would also cause the opponent to gain quanta.
I don't think the rules should be altered for parallel universe
But anyway why would you want to? I think that this could be viable strategy to getting void creatures out. You have to invest the necessary pillars and pay the high quanta cost anyways to use it, so why give the opponent more quanta to boot?
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Would you mind changing the Void pseudoquanta cost mechanic to a Void pseudoquanta generation effect?
Aka casting Parallel Universe on a Void creature would also cause the opponent to gain quanta.
I don't think the rules should be altered for parallel universe
But anyway why would you want to? I think that this could be viable strategy to getting void creatures out. You have to invest the necessary pillars and pay the high quanta cost anyways to use it, so why give the opponent more quanta to boot?
It changes how it would be coded in the game to use more old code instead of new code and it falls in line with a recent crucible ruling on Pseudoquanta mechanics.
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Oh okay, makes sense not to mess with code :). So How would mitosis work, I'm guessing that the ability cost would be zero, since paying the ability cost and then having to pay for the creature generation would be ridiculous.....
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Oh okay, makes sense not to mess with code :). So How would mitosis work, I'm guessing that the ability cost would be zero, since paying the ability cost and then having to pay for the creature generation would be ridiculous.....
That (Casting Cost would be 0 thus Mitosis cost would be 0) would be how I would change it. However Bloodshadow has the first and final say.
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how DO you make void quanta? void pillars destroy quanta from other's quanta pool matching his mark? and if there is void, there must also be a contrary (like :light and :darkness). what would be the supposed opposing element...if THIS one ever sees day.
I know this is a late quote, but i think the opposite of void would probably be mirror, don'tcha think?
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I know this is a late quote, but i think the opposite of void would probably be mirror, don'tcha think?
I said the opposite of the Void element is Divine.
Would you mind changing the Void pseudoquanta cost mechanic to a Void pseudoquanta generation effect?
Aka casting Parallel Universe on a Void creature would also cause the opponent to gain quanta.
No. PU only costs Aether; it has nothing to do with the target's cost.
Oh okay, makes sense not to mess with code :). So How would mitosis work, I'm guessing that the ability cost would be zero, since paying the ability cost and then having to pay for the creature generation would be ridiculous.....
Mitosis on a Void creature would generate Void quanta. In other words, giving quanta to your opponent. I don't care if this can't be coded; I don't expect Void to get into the game anyways.
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Would you mind changing the Void pseudoquanta cost mechanic to a Void pseudoquanta generation effect?
Aka casting Parallel Universe on a Void creature would also cause the opponent to gain quanta.
No. PU only costs Aether; it has nothing to do with the target's cost.
Oh okay, makes sense not to mess with code :). So How would mitosis work, I'm guessing that the ability cost would be zero, since paying the ability cost and then having to pay for the creature generation would be ridiculous.....
Mitosis on a Void creature would generate Void quanta. In other words, giving quanta to your opponent. I don't care if this can't be coded; I don't expect Void to get into the game anyways.
I am surprised at your reluctance to make an almost functionally identical change to the timing that would make the mechanic easier to code.
Currently
Start turn
Game determines if Void Walker's cost(4void) can be paid
Play Voidwalker
Enact Voidwalker's cost (4void)
Come into play effect (none)
The alternative
Start turn
Game determines if Void Walker's cost(0) can be paid
Play Voidwalker
Enact Voidwalker's cost (0)
Come into play effect (4void)
The alternative uses more preexisting code, allows new void cards to enter the Regular Crucible polls, and is functionally identical except in 2 cases.
Case 1: Twin Universe on a void creature would generate void quanta in addition
Case 2: Mitosis + SoR would have no advantage beyond Mitosis
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and is functionally identical except in 2 cases
And I don't like that. As I already said, coding is a non-factor here since these cards aren't likely to be put into the game anyways. If Zanz happens to like them, he can make his own changes.
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I know this is a late quote, but i think the opposite of void would probably be mirror, don'tcha think?
I said the opposite of the Void element is Divine.
Oh, I must have missed it. Sorry for the trouble.
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Aether is of immateriality, whereas Void is the material of nothingness. If you fractal nothing, you get nothing, imo. If you get nothing the same nothing of a parallel world, you have twice the nothing. Does nothing make sense?
On topic: I do like the Void idea, but where is the line between Void and Aether?
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On topic: I do like the Void idea, but where is the line between Void and Aether?
Read Zanz's description of Aether: "Aether is the domain of the immaterial things; it is where the stars reside and the media where all the energy waves move." That's not really "nothing", is it?
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I think that the VoidStalker/Walker Might Be Too OPing. ::)
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I like the idea of Void, but it would be nice to see some card images.
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I like the idea of Void, but it would be nice to see some card images.
This topic ended in 2011, and the person who started it hasn't played elements in years. Card images aren't likely to happen.