How did you choose your religion? Or was it chosen for you?

[OldTrees]

I was raised in a Catholic family, and as such was Catholic unt several years ago it all seemed ridiculous to me. I'm now a weak atheist, however this thread has raised a concern for me:

If I become a parent, will my children blindly follow me into atheism and merely accept my lack of beliefs as true due to their 'logical' nature? I certainly hope not.

Find an appropriate time to stress your potential fallibility to your kids.

[Scaredgirl]

Well, one could argue that after years of religious indoctrination, it would be very unlikely that you can be objective when comparing religions.

1) It's quite presumptuous to say that someone else isn't able to be objective due to one factor, when you don't know any of the other factors involved. Obviously, being raised a Christian had an impact on my decision to accept it as truth, as well as to stick with it for this long. But it isn't the only reason, nor is it the main reason.

2) Your argument could be extended to say that nobody is able to be objective about anything they are taught as children, which means your choice to reject Christianity was just as biased as my choice to accept it. Interestingly, between 50-90% of teens leave Christianity after high school (http://www.conversantlife.com/theology/how-many-youth-are-leaving-the-church). To say that the 10-50% who don't just stay because they've been indoctrinated is silly. Moving out of your parents' house gives you the opportunity to experience life in a new way, along with evaluating what you truly believe versus what you were raised to believe. The end result will be either rejecting what you were raised to believe, or accepting it. The decision you make does not affect whether you are being objective in your analysis.

Well, my apologies but I don't see how it would be presumptuous. First of all, I didn't state it as a fact, I only questioned your objectivity. Secondly, it's almost impossible for humans to be 100% objective about anything because we are not robots. Our past experiences affect how we make decisions no matter how objective we think we might be.  I'm guessing that religion is important to you, and if you are a devoted member of one religion, it's is highly unlikely that you could compare different religions objectively.

I'll ask this one question again because I think it's an important part of the point I'm trying to make. Don't you find it a coincidence that the one religion that you were raised with, out of all the hundreds of other options that were available, just happened to be the perfect one for you? I mean isn't it more probable that instead of this big stroke of luck, you feel Christianity is perfect for you just because you were raised as a Christian? And had you been raised as a Hindu, wouldn't it make sense that Hinduism would feel like the perfect choice for you?

I'm pretty sure that most highly religious people feel that their religion just happens to be the best one for them. That is simply not possible because religion is not something that is in our genes. Indian people do not have the "Hindu gene". Hinduism is 80%+ back there because it's part of their culture, and if that culture had some other religion, that religion would be the 80%+.

How can you confidently say "No" to the second question?

Because I believe something you dont.

If you had been living in India all your life and had been taught Hinduism all your life, are you seriously suggesting that you would ignore your culture, your parents and your friends, and would convert to Christianity?

Yes.

Isn't it possible that you feel strongly about Christianity because that's what you have been taught? Isn't it also possible that you would feel the same way about Hinduism if you have been taught that?

It is possible to be raised one way, and still choose the path on your own. The reason I am so firm in what I believe is because of God, not because of my parents/society/anything else.

I think your responses show a very closed mind to this subject. If you thought about it logically and with and open mind, you would accept the strong possibility that the culture you were raised in would affect what you are as a person.

Let me ask you one thing. If you are unwilling to admit even the obvious possibility that your religion might be something different had the circumstances been different, why should I even debate with you about religion? I mean what's the point, because you clearly are not interested in hearing about other theories or possibilities, you only want to strengthen your current belief. This topic is not a discussion about arbitrary things like "what is God?" where anyone can say anything and nobody can prove otherwise. This discussion is about facts and numbers, so you can't just say "yes" and expect everyone to take your word for it.



I think that the main mistake many people here are doing is that they don't really consider how different they could be as a person had they been raised in a different culture and different religion. It's absolutely silly to assume that a person who was raised as a devoted Catholic would have the same beliefs and values as a person who was raised as a devoted Muslim.

When I am asking you to picture yourself as a Hindu, I don't mean putting on a robe right now, painting a red dot on your forehead, and moving to India. What I mean is years and years of religions indoctrination in Hinduism since you were a child, with little or no contact in Christianity (or whatever your current religion might be). And when a person says that even though they have been raised as a Hindu and taught Hinduism all their life, they would still automatically convert to Christianity, a religion that is not part of their culture, clearly they are looking this thing from the wrong angle.

To everyone who thinks they have a "free will" and would choose their current religion no matter how they were raised, consider this. If people are truly free and capable of choosing their own religions, how do you explain that map? Why do people in certain parts of the world prefer certain religions? Are those religions in their genes?

Like it or not but statistics do not lie. It's all there in that picture. Main reason how people choose their religion is not God speaking to them, years of studying different religions, or some religious quest. Main reason is simply geographic location, or more specifically the culture, you were born in.

Think about it.

[YoungSot]

Like it or not but statistics do not lie. It's all there in that picture. Main reason how people choose their religion is not God speaking to them, years of studying different religions, or some religious quest. Main reason is simply geographic location, or more specifically the culture, you were born in.

All the statistics point to is that most people adopt the religion that is already prevalent in their culture. I doubt anyone is arguing that everyone, or even the majority of people, really thinks through these things as much as they should. But that does not mean some of us didn't think it through, or study other options. It's good food for thought of course, but it shouldn't be treated as an actual logical argument against someone choosing the same religion they grew up with.

To everyone who thinks they have a "free will" and would choose their current religion no matter how they were raised, consider this. If people are truly free and capable of choosing their own religions, how do you explain that map? Why do people in certain parts of the world prefer certain religions? Are those religions in their genes?

I think this is closer to the heart of our differences on this subject. Most of us arguing with you believe in some kind of free will, and you don't. (correct?) As long as we are starting from such different basic assumptions, we aren't likely to come to an agreement on this.

[OldTrees]

consider this. If people are truly free and capable of choosing their own religions, how do you explain that map? Why do people in certain parts of the world prefer certain religions? Are those religions in their genes?

Because people tend to choose to only discard a belief when they are exposed to a more favorable (usually more probable) belief. Some people choose to require a disproof to justify changing positions. If we assume that this accurately describes the majority of people and if we accept the premise that the default belief is influenced by the culture, then we would predict the map.

[Kakerlake]

Like it or not but statistics do not lie. It's all there in that picture.

Actually statistics do lie, and they lie very good.
Think about it this way: Being questioned about your religion in a by Religion X dominated society, quite some folks might vote for Religion X even though they don't actually care about that Religion or even worse are just too scared to say what they actually believe in. *booOOo he's a pastafari! burn him! burn him with lemonade!*
That little cultural influence might be stronger than you thought yourself ^^

Also, do you always answer truthfully on those question thingies going around? Do you think many folks will answer my last question the same way you did? A~nd last but not least: did you REALLY answer that question truthfully? :3
Even I am still officially registered as a christian and I somehow just lack the motivation to actually go to change that.

Well, anyway, I strongly agree with what you said SG.
The upbringing, cultural influence and even a feeling you had while you were still in the mothers womb influences your psyche and can change you into a totally different person. While you are able to think yourself and change your oppinions in many ways, you can't easily uproot your whole psyche (and you probably want to do that only if you had a really miserable upbringing anyway) to make you the I-am-me-person no matter where and how you are born/brought up.
The stuff that comes from the genes can influence your way of thinking, but not what you actually think. - So it may support your inner rebel who goes against the religion you were born in, or it makes you just go with the flow. But I really doubt that there is that "I believe in ..."-gene that makes you want to join that religion, just as i doubt there is a "I speak english"-gene that makes you speak english.

[BluePriest]

Let me ask you one thing. If you are unwilling to admit even the obvious possibility that your religion might be something different had the circumstances been different, why should I even debate with you about religion? I mean what's the point, because you clearly are not interested in hearing about other theories or possibilities, you only want to strengthen your current belief. This topic is not a discussion about arbitrary things like "what is God?" where anyone can say anything and nobody can prove otherwise. This discussion is about facts and numbers, so you can't just say "yes" and expect everyone to take your word for it.

Say there are 100 people.
All of them were raised Christian.
50 of them changed beliefs in there lifetime to another religion.

If you look at this as only 50% of people chose their own beliefs, then you are looking at it wrong. For all we know, only 1 person blindly followed, and the remaining 49 were not brainwashed and actually made a mental decision to follow it.

You can assume I'm being blind, but I believe your the one who is blind here.

[darkrobe]

Let me ask you one thing. If you are unwilling to admit even the obvious possibility that your religion might be something different had the circumstances been different, why should I even debate with you about religion? I mean what's the point, because you clearly are not interested in hearing about other theories or possibilities, you only want to strengthen your current belief. This topic is not a discussion about arbitrary things like "what is God?" where anyone can say anything and nobody can prove otherwise. This discussion is about facts and numbers, so you can't just say "yes" and expect everyone to take your word for it.

Say there are 100 people.
All of them were raised Christian.
50 of them changed beliefs in there lifetime to another religion.

If you look at this as only 50% of people chose their own beliefs, then you are looking at it wrong. For all we know, only 1 person blindly followed, and the remaining 49 were not brainwashed and actually made a mental decision to follow it.

You can assume I'm being blind, but I believe your the one who is blind here.

Im not sure thats the point.

I think the point is to imagine what you might be like had you been raised in a group of a different religion.
So in your example. Say you were born with 99 other people who were all raised cristian.  and you are part of the 50% that stayed christian.

I think your supposed to think about whether had you been part of 100 people raised hindu. whether you would have been 1 of the 50% that stayed hindu, or whether you would have been part of the 50% that changed and perhaps ended up christian. If youve never considered other religions and whether they would fit you, i think maybe you should give this more thought than just throw out an answer.

I think it is harder to compare agnostics and atheists here. because most people who are agnostic or atheist werent raised agnostic or atheist. so im not sure we would have a good sample group.

[Brontos]

My wife is chinese and got a very different religious education than me (french).
I have two kids, less than 3 years old, and be sure that they will have a bit more options about this choice than my wife and I got when we were young.

I'll reopen this thread in 20 years, to tell you what religion they chose, if they chose one. :p

[Scaredgirl]

Like it or not but statistics do not lie. It's all there in that picture. Main reason how people choose their religion is not God speaking to them, years of studying different religions, or some religious quest. Main reason is simply geographic location, or more specifically the culture, you were born in.

All the statistics point to is that most people adopt the religion that is already prevalent in their culture. I doubt anyone is arguing that everyone, or even the majority of people, really thinks through these things as much as they should. But that does not mean some of us didn't think it through, or study other options. It's good food for thought of course, but it shouldn't be treated as an actual logical argument against someone choosing the same religion they grew up with.

To everyone who thinks they have a "free will" and would choose their current religion no matter how they were raised, consider this. If people are truly free and capable of choosing their own religions, how do you explain that map? Why do people in certain parts of the world prefer certain religions? Are those religions in their genes?

I think this is closer to the heart of our differences on this subject. Most of us arguing with you believe in some kind of free will, and you don't. (correct?) As long as we are starting from such different basic assumptions, we aren't likely to come to an agreement on this.

I think you are kind of missing the point here. I'm not saying that people who were raised with certain religion are somehow incapable of switching religions. That happens all the time. But it is much more likely that they will stay with the religion they were brought up with. After all, it's part of their culture.

The point is that if there truly was a "free will" to choose whichever religion makes most sense to you, the world religious map would look different. Statistics are what they are, and they clearly show how there is a huge correlation between religion and geographic location. This is a pure fact that cannot be refuted. Why it happens doesn't even matter

If we ask that question from highly religious people, they would probably all say they would still choose that same religion, even if they were born elsewhere. We've had people say exactly that in this topic. But that doesn't make sense because it's against what the map shows.

Here's a popular quote that fits pretty well to this topic:

"Religion is like football. Everyone wants to believe their home team is special, but the fact is they only think so because they were born there."

Actually statistics do lie, and they lie very good.
Think about it this way: Being questioned about your religion in a by Religion X dominated society, quite some folks might vote for Religion X even though they don't actually care about that Religion or even worse are just too scared to say what they actually believe in. *booOOo he's a pastafari! burn him! burn him with lemonade!*
That little cultural influence might be stronger than you thought yourself ^^

Also, do you always answer truthfully on those question thingies going around? Do you think many folks will answer my last question the same way you did? A~nd last but not least: did you REALLY answer that question truthfully? :3
Even I am still officially registered as a christian and I somehow just lack the motivation to actually go to change that.

Well, anyway, I strongly agree with what you said SG.
The upbringing, cultural influence and even a feeling you had while you were still in the mothers womb influences your psyche and can change you into a totally different person. While you are able to think yourself and change your oppinions in many ways, you can't easily uproot your whole psyche (and you probably want to do that only if you had a really miserable upbringing anyway) to make you the I-am-me-person no matter where and how you are born/brought up.
The stuff that comes from the genes can influence your way of thinking, but not what you actually think. - So it may support your inner rebel who goes against the religion you were born in, or it makes you just go with the flow. But I really doubt that there is that "I believe in ..."-gene that makes you want to join that religion, just as i doubt there is a "I speak english"-gene that makes you speak english.

It is true that there are many different biases in statistics, but the margin of error is not even close to explain the clear distribution of religions. The fact that some people lie in statistical studies, does not make all statistics flawed. There are ways to weed out those answers, and even if it happens, all it does is slightly increase the margin of error. I would bet that most people do not lie about their religious beliefs because I don't see why they would do that. This is not the Dark Ages anymore, and usually when people have

And I don't really need statistics to see that what the map suggests is accurate. I've personally been to many parts of the word and I've seen the religious presence there with my own eyes. In most places, there is clearly one dominant religion. Come to my country and it will take you weeks to find a single Hindu. Go to India and you will find a million at the airport. That is not a weird coincidence.

It would be different if the question was: "Are you a religious person?" because people define the word "religious" differently. For example in my country, most people are Christian but would not call themselves religious. In this study however, they only determined in which religion people belong to. In most parts of the world, that is not something people need, or want, to lie about. Saying "statistics lie" is kind of like countering any scientific argument, regardless of the amount of evidence, with "science is wrong all the time". It's not always perfect, but it's better than anything else we have.

That last part about womb and psyche is interesting. I'm not sure if I believe that, but it's interesting nevertheless.

Let me ask you one thing. If you are unwilling to admit even the obvious possibility that your religion might be something different had the circumstances been different, why should I even debate with you about religion? I mean what's the point, because you clearly are not interested in hearing about other theories or possibilities, you only want to strengthen your current belief. This topic is not a discussion about arbitrary things like "what is God?" where anyone can say anything and nobody can prove otherwise. This discussion is about facts and numbers, so you can't just say "yes" and expect everyone to take your word for it.

Say there are 100 people.
All of them were raised Christian.
50 of them changed beliefs in there lifetime to another religion.

If you look at this as only 50% of people chose their own beliefs, then you are looking at it wrong. For all we know, only 1 person blindly followed, and the remaining 49 were not brainwashed and actually made a mental decision to follow it.

You can assume I'm being blind, but I believe your the one who is blind here.

Im not sure thats the point.

I think the point is to imagine what you might be like had you been raised in a group of a different religion.
So in your example. Say you were born with 99 other people who were all raised cristian.  and you are part of the 50% that stayed christian.

I think your supposed to think about whether had you been part of 100 people raised hindu. whether you would have been 1 of the 50% that stayed hindu, or whether you would have been part of the 50% that changed and perhaps ended up christian. If youve never considered other religions and whether they would fit you, i think maybe you should give this more thought than just throw out an answer.

I think it is harder to compare agnostics and atheists here. because most people who are agnostic or atheist werent raised agnostic or atheist. so im not sure we would have a good sample group.

Yep, darkrobe understood what I meant.

[ALilParasite]

Both my divorced parents talk strongly of god and Jesus and such, personally i didn't like the idea of church, Jesus, god. The whole Christianity thing in my family really got to me when i was talking to my cousins about a friend of mine that was bi-sexual, they weren't pleased with that fact. I had asked why they were displeased with my choice of friends and they said it was because "God didn't make us to be attracted to the same sex" or "It isn't how things are meant to be." Knowing that this is how I was supposed to see the world as a christian i didn't like it so i just went the being an Atheist. I had considered myself an atheist for a couple years until I found my current religion through the hardest badge of this game on kongregate.com. When i first started i asked someone what the name was supposed to mean and they referenced me to a link describing this "Flying Spaghetti Monster" They told me it had to do with the fact that there's just as much evidence as god and a bunch of the facts about what it is a Pastafarian's beliefs are. I now happily own my own Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti monster and read a few pages here and there in my free time in school.

[hainkarga]

Allright, if you get easily offended, please don't read this post.

For the great majority, not only there is almost no real choice in their religion, but there is also little to no choice in everything they think they choose or like. Media, politicians, religion, traditions, education systems, books etc. have been doctrinating & brainwashing the shit out of everyone for hundreds, thousands of years. That's how the world rolls.

Sometimes it may be hard to distinguish and rationalize most of these consequences because everything is connected and usually complicated. But luckily for this topic; not religion. It really is very easy to see how and why people believe in X religion during Y period in Z region of the world. Its so homogenic and obvious. Look at the map again, it is like borders of countries. Much like how you have NO choice in where you were born to which parents, you have very little choice in your religion.

The way i see it:
* If you hate thinking / very smart to use it for your own benefits, you have your parents religion. 
* If you somehow managed to use your brain and like questioning stuff, you become an atheist or for the better a pastafarian  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarian)like me.
* And if you are an insane person, you switch religions. Really they scare the hell out of me.

The map in OP says it all. And if you want to know why Z region has X religion, you should just check history. Christianity ? Check history of Roman Empire. Islam ? Check history of middle east. Hell, brits have their religion because king henry was a horny person and didn't want to take shit from pope anymore

[ALilParasite]

* If you somehow managed to use your brain and like questioning stuff, you become an atheist or for the better a pastafarian  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarian)like me.

yay I am not alone