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Offline godisnowonline

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1230468#msg1230468
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2016, 01:29:28 am »
My bad fippe, I recall there being something about arsenic based life forms being discovered on mars. Perhaps it was a prank? I don't know i just would have sworn that it had been in the news

Offline Manuel

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1230477#msg1230477
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2016, 04:19:49 am »
atheism is not a religion because atheism doesn't wanna be a religion lol

i can have faith in everything, not only in religion or christianity, no one can judge my believes until they don't hurt or limit the liberty of another man, like any religion in the world should do

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Offline MasterofPun

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250511#msg1250511
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2016, 03:33:36 pm »
So what you are saying is that you really don't have any evidence of where life came from within the natural world. So you don't know? That's ok.
God made life. Any questions?

Manuel - where do you get that idea that you can't hurt or limit the liberty of another man? Why can I not hurt you if I want?
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Offline ElementalDearWatson

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250745#msg1250745
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2016, 11:34:06 pm »
So what you are saying is that you really don't have any evidence of where life came from within the natural world. So you don't know? That's ok.
God made life. Any questions?

Where did God come from?

Offline MasterofPun

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250837#msg1250837
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2016, 11:22:41 pm »
Simple question, simple answer. I already answered this question... maybe not on this thread. I'll answer it again.

Who could make God? God is beyond the limitations of being. The name He gives Moses: "I AM - THE ONE WHO IS" indicates that God's existent nature is one, if not the most, prominent part of His character.

No one could create God. God is the Alpha and the Omega - beginning and the end. God had no beginning or end. He is supernatural.
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Offline ElementalDearWatson

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250842#msg1250842
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2016, 11:44:39 pm »
Do you have any evidence for that?

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250843#msg1250843
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2016, 11:47:24 pm »
Do you have any evidence for that?

Why would a supernatural being require evidence? Supernatural is by definition, beyond the natural realm, of which evidence is a part. It is impossible to prove or disprove such a thing. It is not part of the scope of logic or proofs.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250874#msg1250874
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2016, 05:31:12 am »
Do you have any evidence for that?

Why would a supernatural being require evidence? Supernatural is by definition, beyond the natural realm, of which evidence is a part. It is impossible to prove or disprove such a thing. It is not part of the scope of logic or proofs.
The request for evidence was directed at MasterOfPun's "You don't have conclusive evidence for your position so accept my position without evidence" statement.

As for the supernatural, I have not heard of a consistent natural/supernatural categorical division that allows supernatural beings to exist in a meaningful way to natural beings and yet do not interact with the possibility for evidence. From my experience the word supernatural hinders more than helps someone professing the existence of what they consider to be the supernatural.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 05:40:34 am by OldTrees »
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Offline ElementalDearWatson

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250892#msg1250892
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2016, 09:18:17 am »
Indeed, if MasterofPuncan dismiss out of hand the idea of abiogenesis for lack of evidence, then what compelling reason is there to accept an uncaused, eternal God with even less evidence?

Offline MasterofPun

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250899#msg1250899
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2016, 01:12:47 pm »
The concept of life coming about by random chance is so silly it seems ludicrous to believe. When you think about it, irreducible complexity really does matter. A cell cannot simply jump into existence - to say that it does is directly contradicting our idea of science. If you want to do that, that is a choice: just don't call it science. Call if faith. We have never seen life come from anything but life, so life must have always existed. But if ordinary life existed at the beginning of time, then how would it have gotten there? Who made it?

This calls for some lifeforms to start the universe. The only Being that is not limited by time or space is God. According to science, we need a source of life at the beginning. But ordinary life cannot be made without more ordinary life: so we need something beyond ordinary life.

Seeing as the evolutionary beginning of life has less than no evidence, I feel that pretty much any other position has a better explanation. Not only do people have consciences (which evolution would say should have faded) and many structures that natural selection could never have created, life itself cannot exist without God.

I'm not apologizing for God's nature. The fact that we cannot hold God in our hand or see Him under a microscope does not mean that He does not exist. Nor does it mean that He does exist.
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Offline ElementalDearWatson

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250902#msg1250902
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2016, 02:31:05 pm »
The concept of life coming about by random chance is so silly it seems ludicrous to believe.

That's both a straw man and an argument from incredulity.

Quote
A cell cannot simply jump into existence - to say that it does is directly contradicting our idea of science.

Indeed it is.  That's probably why precisely zero scientists claim that.

Quote
We have never seen life come from anything but life, so life must have always existed.

This doesn't make any sense.  I've never seen myself come from anything other than my mother, therefore I have always existed.  I've never seen oil come from anything other than dinosaurs, therefore oil has always existed.  I've never seen pixels come from anything other than a computer, therefore pixels have always existed.  I've never seen Harry Potter come from anything other than the imagination of J K Rowling, therefore Harry Potter has always existed.

Humans not having directly observed something doesn't mean that that thing didn't happen.

Quote
According to science, we need a source of life at the beginning.

What particular theory are you referring to, here?  Please be specific.

Quote
Seeing as the evolutionary beginning of life has less than no evidence, I feel that pretty much any other position has a better explanation.

Evolution and abiogenesis are two completely different things. 

And there is not "less than no evidence" for abiogenesis.  There's not enough evidence to say with any certainty how life came about, but all the time more and more evidence is found which supports the fact of abiogenesis.

Furthermore, there is "less than no evidence" for the existence of God.

Quote
The fact that we cannot hold God in our hand or see Him under a microscope does not mean that He does not exist.

That there is no evidence that God exists is a pretty good reason to assume that he doesn't.  Of course, anybody who believes themselves rational should be open to the possibility that he does - however vanishingly small that possibility may be - but that doesn't mean that the assumption that he doesn't is unsound.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 02:33:15 pm by ElementalDearWatson »

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Athiesm is not a Religion, and "Believing" in Evolution is not Faith. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=47582.msg1250919#msg1250919
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2016, 06:33:07 pm »
Quote
A cell cannot simply jump into existence - to say that it does is directly contradicting our idea of science.

Indeed it is.  That's probably why precisely zero scientists claim that.

Added precision: Combining our current understanding of the fields of physics, chemistry, and biology, we do expect a infinitesimal chance of a cell forming from "empty" space. However that chance is so much lower than the other mechanisms that precisely zero scientists would claim it over a more likely mechanism like "phospholipids occur naturally -> entropy results in phospholipid forming spherical bilayer membranes -> semipermeable membranes accumulate larger compound molecules made from the smaller molecules that pass through the membrane"*.

*Of course this is an entry level explanation of one of the older proposed mechanisms and yet it covers the span from separate chemicals through accumulation of polymers(like RNA).
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anything
blarg: